MK4 Coyote Options

[Redlinejoev]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and have not ordered my kit yet but I was wondering if anyone here has any insight on the new gen 3 coyote crate engine that will be released sometime this year. Basically I want to know if this new crate engine will bolt in place of the gen 2 without issue. I'm assuming the motor mount location will be identical. Also, has anyone installed an auto with a coyote?

[wareaglescott]

The dimensions of the Gen 3 coyote are the same. Mount locations should be the same. The only exception is the direct injection pump on the upper passenger side of the engine. There has been some discussion on how that will fit on the Gen 3 Coupe. Roadster I suppose could potentially be an issue but I believe it has more room than the coupe. Have a friend at Ford involved with the Gen 3 and last update was they were finishing up the controls pack and he expected it to be released sometime this summer.

[Redlinejoev]

Scott,
Thanks to you and your friend at Ford. This is good news because I was really hoping the gen 3 coyote would fit the roadster, guess I will just wait and see what would need to be modified. I'll pray to the FFR gods for help, he he.

Joe

[edwardb]

Scott (wareaglescott) pretty much covered it. I've also been in contact with Ford (mainly also the same person Scott mentioned) and hoping they are able to deliver on their "summer 2018" promise for the Gen 3 Coyote crate. I've seen it in person and posted a bunch of pictures and descriptions in my Coupe build thread. Start here https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post315716. If you keep scrolling you can see a CAD image of the Gen 3 Coyote in the Gen 3 Coupe. Fits OK. In talking to the guys at Ford, they said everything about the Gen 3 crate will be the same as the Gen 3. Same motor mount, headers, accessory drives, wiring harness, PDB, etc. The actual PCM is from a different supplier (Bosch) but is similar in size. Of course the one thing everyone talks about is the cover used on the Gen 3 Coyote. Because of the added plumbing for the DI (Direct Injection) Ford didn't even try to use coil covers like on the previous Coyotes. Instead just have a big cover across the entire top of the engine with wings that go over the heads. I can tell you for sure that cover won't fit in a Roadster. With the extensions over the heads it's wider than the distance between the hood rails in the Roadster. So either it would need to be modified or not used at all. Everything else should fit no problem.

Beyond availability, I've already received word from several Ford sources that the Gen 3 Coyote will be "more expensive." They haven't officially released the price or even given any hints about what that means. Only comments like "that new DI stuff isn't cheap." I guess we'll find out soon enough. Also related, since the factory (in Windsor, Canada) isn't making the Gen 2 Coyote any more, Ford Performance did obtain what they described as "about a 1 year supply" of the Gen 2 engines before the line was changed over. That was six months or so ago. Of course I have no idea how many that is, how many they have left, etc. But it's not an unlimited supply. If the Gen 3 release should get delayed, could be interesting getting anything. I've heard from several sources that Ford Performance has been backordered on the Gen 2 controls pack. But supposedly they're due to start shipping soon. That by itself doesn't mean anything for the Gen 3 since the control packs won't be compatible.

I can't give you any guidance for an automatic. Historically, the Coyote crate engines have been straight off the production line manual shift setups. Including a flywheel, etc. I'd read some news releases about support for an automatic with the Coyote crate, but really don't have any details because wasn't something I was interested in. The challenge of course is that current generation automatics are all electronically controlled just like current technology engines. Maybe someone on here can offer more info. Or you could call the Ford Performance tech line and just ask. I suspect you're going to have some fitment issues with automatics as well. Seems to be the case because they're not supported and generally are bigger than the intended T-5 and TKO manual transmissions. But again, not something I know anything about.

[JohnK]

I wanted to bump this thread to see if anyone has any further insights on how a gen 3 coyote will fit in a mk4 roadster. I'm finalizing the details of my config and will be ordering a complete mk4 kit soon. I've decided to go with a coyote, but at this point I think I still have the option to go with gen 2 or gen 3. Going with gen 2 would mean I have to purchase an engine now before supplies run out, and sit on it for a while before actually needing it. Edwardb - I see that you have a gen 3 coyote on had and test-fitted in your coupe. Now that you've actually laid hands on one, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how it would fit in a roadster vs. the gen 2 coyote?

Thanks,
John

[edwardb]

I wanted to bump this thread to see if anyone has any further insights on how a gen 3 coyote will fit in a mk4 roadster. I'm finalizing the details of my config and will be ordering a complete mk4 kit soon. I've decided to go with a coyote, but at this point I think I still have the option to go with gen 2 or gen 3. Going with gen 2 would mean I have to purchase an engine now before supplies run out, and sit on it for a while before actually needing it. Edwardb - I see that you have a gen 3 coyote on had and test-fitted in your coupe. Now that you've actually laid hands on one, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how it would fit in a roadster vs. the gen 2 coyote?

Thanks,
John

I don't see anything about the Gen 3 that would cause it to fit differently in a Roadster compared to the Gen 2 Coyote. Motor mounts are the same. Exhaust headers are the same. Front accessory mount is the same. Fuel and cooling connections are the same. The throttle body has a slightly different angle, but that shouldn't be a problem. Bell housing and starter mount are the same.

Differences you'll need to address (all of which are in my Coupe build thread, which apparently you've looked at): (1) The dual mass flywheel won't work with current TKO or T-56 transmissions. I've confirmed however once it's removed, the previous generation pilot bearing, flywheel, and clutch fit just fine. An alternative would be to use a 2018+ Mustang MT82 transmission. But that has its own challenges. (2) The oil pump is now a GT350 version and not compatible with the typical Moroso aftermarket pick-up. Supposedly Moroso going to update theirs to be compatible, but no timing available. How I'm addressing this is in my build thread. I'm sure this will have a good solution in the future. (3) The PCM is different (Bosch vs. Continental) so the mounting is different. Not a big deal, but the Factory Five supplied mount plate for the PCM won't work for the new one. (4) The Gen 3 cover won't fit between the hood rails, but likely you wouldn't want to use it in stock form anyway. I'm going to trim the wings off for the Coupe build and see how that fits and looks. (5) Yes, it's more expensive. There are a few minor differences in the control pack, but nothing to be concerned about. Mainly they've simplified it some.

The 2018+ Gen 3 Coyote is getting rave reviews. I haven't run mine yet but looking forward to it.

[JohnK]

Thank you so much! That's invaluable feedback. Yes, I've scanned through your coupe build, primarily looking at specific items of interest, but I plan to go back and re-read it more thoroughly. I learned so much reading your 20th aniv. roadster build thread. That's great to hear on the fit of the gen 3 coyote. I think the primary area of concern was the new DI pump. It looks like it fits just fine in the coupe. I'm guessing you have no reason to believe that it wouldn't also fit just fine in the roadster? I can't wait to see what you do with the engine cover and/or whether any aftermarket dress-up solutions appear over time.

[edwardb]

Thank you so much! That's invaluable feedback. Yes, I've scanned through your coupe build, primarily looking at specific items of interest, but I plan to go back and re-read it more thoroughly. I learned so much reading your 20th aniv. roadster build thread. That's great to hear on the fit of the gen 3 coyote. I think the primary area of concern was the new DI pump. It looks like it fits just fine in the coupe. I'm guessing you have no reason to believe that it wouldn't also fit just fine in the roadster? I can't wait to see what you do with the engine cover and/or whether any aftermarket dress-up solutions appear over time.

The Gen 3 DI pump will easily clear everything in a Roadster. There isn't anything within at least 6-8 inches of that area. Much more clearance than in the Coupe.