Hello from Milwaukee

[BrewCityCobra]

Hello! I just wanted to introduce myself to the forum. I’ve been following both forums for quite some time and have been amazed by the wealth of information and experience here.

A little about myself, I’m getting ready to make the move to Milwaukee and with the prospect of finally having a garage again (I’m currently in Chicago proper) I figured it was time to start planning for a future project. I’m probably a year or so out before I’d actually be able to pull the trigger on a kit, but, given that I have a tendency to over-research/analyze everything, I figured now was a good time to start planning. While I don’t have any experience with Factory Five or Cobras specifically, I do have a bit of general build experience - my current project is a 1965 Chevy C10 frame-off restomod my father and I have are in the process of trying to finish up.

For the Cobra, I was planning on going with the complete kit, and am hoping to build something I can drive reliably on the street (hopefully to work from time to time), to shows on the weekends, and perhaps to a track day or two a year (with Road America within an hour or so of our new home I figure it would be a shame not to). I assume the car will be updated in phases over time (e.g., interior, power steering, etc.) but I’d like to nail down the drive train the first time around.

That said, right now my biggest research project is the engine. Traditionally, I have always been more of a SBC guy but I don’t think I’m up for bucking the Ford trend on this particular project. Unfortunately my knowledge on Ford engines is quite limited. I was hoping to get about 450-500 HP and, while I prefer the look and sound of a traditional pushrod V8, I am not adverse to the more modern Coyote engines. My current ideas are as follows:

1 – A Dart SHP 427W from Forte’s Part Connection (probably the limit of my budget)
2 – A Coyote setup (look into possible upgrades if possible)
3 – Build a 427W myself using a Dart SHP short block.
4 – One of the other Blueprint Engine kits (although I’d probably have to compromise on performance to stay in budget).

I’d be curious to hear any input on whether I am barking up the wrong tree with any of these setups, or if there are some mods/variations I should be looking into as possible alternative options.

I really look forward to following the projects on the forum and, hopefully, adding a build thread of my own some day.

[edwardb]

Any of the traditional engine configurations you're describing (1, 3 and 4) are fine and not uncommon. The DART SHP blocks are very high quality and IMO an excellent choice. I had a DART SHP based 347, built by a well known and excellent builder in your backyard (Fordstrokers), in my Mk4 Roadster #7750. Build thread linked in my sig line below. Awesome engine and the way it was configured (AFR heads, cam, etc.) was in the HP range you are describing. A 351 based block will hit your target numbers pretty easily. My latest build (#8794, also linked below) is Coyote powered and I'm huge fan. With the aftermarket cold air intake, straight tube headers, and a custom tune, that setup too will hit your target numbers. With modern computer control, EFI, variable cams, etc. it's instant, smooth, and effortless power. A real pleasure to drive.

My biggest advice would be to get out and look at as many builds in person as you can. There are plenty in your area. You're not far from the London Cobra Show (https://www.londoncobrashow.com/) which is another great way to see lots of examples and talk to owners. Most (maybe none) will let you drive their creations. But most are happy to give rides.

My other advice is to develop a build plan, budget, etc. and be thoughtful about the upgrades now versus later. Some are easy adds later. Others not so much and better to make part of the initial build. Since you mentioned it, I would put power steering in that category. Most know I'm a huge power steering fan. I'll spare the usual sales pitch. Certainly possible to add later. But way easier to install up front and you're not throwing away parts (e.g. steering rack) or setups (e.g. alignment, engine accessory drive). There are several options for how to install power steering, depending on engine, boost method, etc. Make that part of your homework.

Good luck.

[Dave Howard]

Welcome aboard.

A good solid build plan is a must. Like any project, start with a good foundation. As for the updating in phases, I would take the extra time to build the car in only one phase. Taking the cars apart after its been driven to upgrade is a pain. I'd determine what it is you want the car to be and do it right the first time.

As for your engine research, there is no wrong tree to bark up. Its what you want as the end product. I'm a big fan of the Coyote. My build plan was for the same HP range as you. It started with me rebuilding a big block FE. After pricing out the worn out engine, machine shop time and rebuild parts the $20K estimate shocked me into changing the build plan to a small block crate engine. The Coyote was gaining popularity in 2011 and the more I read about it the more I realized I had to change the build plan again. The Coyote is all aluminum with super strong 6 bolt main caps. You'll be hard pressed to hurt this thing. Double overhead variable timed cam shafts and 4 valve per cylinder. The bone sock Coyote will suit your stated end use. When configured as per the FFR manual and with a mild tune, you'll be pushing 500 ponies easily. It runs great on any pump gas. No need to 94 octane. Computer controlled. No need to adjust timing or fuel ratios at different altitudes. Great gas mileage while on the highway (depending on you gear ratios) and its super reliable. It build crazy power from 3,000 revs till the rev limiter, and yet it is very driveable on the streets at the lower revs. There's 100s of Coyotes in FFR roadsters. Its an easy install. The only minor negative is the appearance of the stock Coyote is less appealing than a tricked out BB, and the sound at idle is quiet compared to an overcammed twin carbed 427. MINOR in my books.

Enjoy the build experience.

[BrewCityCobra]

Thank you both for the feedback.

Seems like the general consensus is that I should scrap the "iterative" concept and plan on doing this in one swoop. Probably not a bad idea. I'm still digging through the forums for ideas but it looks like I'll be trying to incorporate most of the mainstays: Power steering, trunk drop box/battery, expanded foot boxes, etc. I'm still putting together the final build list and budget.

With regards to the engine it seems like I may have to give the Coyote a closer look. While there is something about the look and sound of a carbureted SBF that i truly enjoy, the capabilities of the Coyote seem like exactly what the doctor ordered.

With that said, I assume the capabilities vary a bit from engine to engine but do either of you know what kind of specs one can expect from a Coyote with a cold air intake, tune, and headers?

[edwardb]

Don’t give up your iterative approach yet. Especially if it helps with your build plan and budget. My encouragement is just look at it critically. Try not to hold off on things that require major teardowns, modifications, or contortions (!!) to change. Candidates for later adds could be side pipes, wheels/tires, soft top, some even hold off on paint and drive in gel coat for a season or two. Lots of others.

There are lots of mods out there. I’m not too shy about them myself. But some don’t work with every option setup or engine setup. For example, rear battery box and IRS aren’t currently compatible. I prefer and recommend the Breeze front mount battery. If you do go Coyote, there aren’t a lot of options for footbox mods. A tuck here and there, but nothing huge. And just about anything you do makes it tighter on the already very tight engine side. Just make sure the gains available are worth it for your situation. Another good reason to see as many builds as possible, as I suggested before.

As far as the Coyote, agreed it doesn’t look like a carb’d SBF. Whether that’s good or bad is a matter of personal preference. I went to a huge cars and coffee this morning with my Coyote powered Mk4. Usual mix of performance and resto-mods, but also a bunch of high end Porsches, Lambos, couple of new Ford GT’s, etc. Lots of traffic around my car and a bunch of positive comments. Many about how cool it was to have a modern engine in a 60’s classic. Don’t sell the sound short either. Yes, it’s different. But they still sound great and plenty angry through the side pipes when poked. Nothing like some of the modded Mustangs that were shrieking around me this morning. That's a good thing... But it’s also very happy easing along at 1,500 RPM in 4th or 5th and you can barely hear it. I guess you can tell I’m a fan.

As far as the actual specs, the currently available Gen 2 Coyote (2015-2017) is rated at 435 HP and 400 lb-ft torque. With the aftermarket cold air intake, straight tube headers, and a custom tune (recommended), pretty easily in the 460-470 HP range. Likely more. They’re very strong. For street driving, even with good performance tires, not easy to use all of it. The Gen 3 Coyote (2018+), due to be released as a crate sometime this summer, ups the ante to 460 HP/420 torque out of the box. I'm hearing from multiple sources that Ford is being very conservative with the ratings. Apparently they usually dyno out to more. May be the only thing available in your timeframe if you go crate motor.

[Dave Howard]

Thank you both for the feedback.

Seems like the general consensus is that I should scrap the "iterative" concept and plan on doing this in one swoop. Probably not a bad idea. I'm still digging through the forums for ideas but it looks like I'll be trying to incorporate most of the mainstays: Power steering, trunk drop box/battery, expanded foot boxes, etc. I'm still putting together the final build list and budget.

With regards to the engine it seems like I may have to give the Coyote a closer look. While there is something about the look and sound of a carbureted SBF that i truly enjoy, the capabilities of the Coyote seem like exactly what the doctor ordered.

With that said, I assume the capabilities vary a bit from engine to engine but do either of you know what kind of specs one can expect from a Coyote with a cold air intake, tune, and headers?

I have the Gen I Coyote with the Specre/K&N intake (not truly a cold air intake), the 4x1x4 headers from Stainless Headers, through Gas-N pipes. A custom "dyno' tune resulted in 488HP. There are tune options available that will make the Coyote idle like the over cammed twin carb BB. I don't have it. Sometimes, its nice to be able to respect pedestrians with a quiet pass by.

[BrewCityCobra]

As you guessed the iterative process was a result of trying to spread out some of the costs more than anything. At this time I was thinking the "upgrades" I could hold off on would be:

- Power Steering
- Polished Gas-N Pipes
- Customized interior (But I'd likely put the seat heaters in right away).
- Customized Speedhut gauges.

While the features I'd include right away would be:

- Expanded foot boxes
- Relocated Battery
- Dropped Trunk Floor
- Breeze Roll-bars
- Footbox air system
- Russ Thompson turn signal kit.

The big thing I've been going back and forth with on is the brakes. For the brakes I'd like to ultimately go with the Wilwood kit back and front. From what I've read on the forum it seems like most people suggest manual brakes if you have the Wilwoods but power brakes if you stick with the stock setup from factory five. I'd rather not messy-up the engine compartment with a power brake system if I'm ultimately going to go with a manual system in the end so I'd likely need to run the stock brakes manually until the switch was made. My gut tells me that may be more trouble than its worth and I should just pull the trigger and do the brakes right off the bat. I have also not been able to find if anybody thinks the stock brakes could last a day on the track. I've personally never attended a track day but was hoping this car could help me take it on as a hobby. So while I don't need a hard-core track setup I don't want to do anything at this stage that would preclude me in the future from attending one or two track days a year and have a pretty good go at it.

[Clover]

I don't have my kit, so I can't say for sure but I expect the standard brakes would handle the roadster just fine. Those brakes are designed to stop a car that weights over 1000 lbs. more then the Cobra will. The Willwoods sure look nice and they can hold more heat, however, the Mustang brakes are still probably overkill for what is needed to stop a 2300 lbs. car. You are just going to need to use more muscle then a car with power brakes.

[BrewCityCobra]

I don't have my kit, so I can't say for sure but I expect the standard brakes would handle the roadster just fine. Those brakes are designed to stop a car that weights over 1000 lbs. more then the Cobra will. The Willwoods sure look nice and they can hold more heat, however, the Mustang brakes are still probably overkill for what is needed to stop a 2300 lbs. car. You are just going to need to use more muscle then a car with power brakes.

I will add that the Willwoods make it easier to swap pads out. If you plan and swapping pads at the track, then going back to street pads before driving home, the Willwoods make that quicker and easier.

That's promising to hear. I was hoping a manual version of the stock setup could tide me over for a bit while I get other aspects of the car in place. From the sounds of it, it may even be sufficient for permanent placement if I decided the Wilwoods are too much drain on the pocketbook.

[gtaroger]

Welcome to the forum. Ford sells a great small block at a great price. The 363 crate motor. 525hp and that old school look. I have a SVO Boss 302 motor with a 310 long rod with AFR heads. Looks like the old 289 ,but put out 450hp. Roger