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Thread: uneven hardtop

  1. #1
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    uneven hardtop

    Not sure if others have run into this before and not sure what to do about it. started the body work on the hard top, the base that sits on the body is uneven on the drivers side back behind the door. The inside shell is 1/8" higher than the outside shell, this will leave the gap between the hardtop and body. The passenger side is even inside and out. I think I should build up the low area so that inside and out are enen?
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    Not sure if my comments might do more damage than good but here goes. The areas we built up were mostly structurally reinforced by building the bulk with fiberglass layers versus filler. We did use some filler but we were pretty liberal about laying down layers of glass wherever possible. Not being sure I understand exactly your issue I am just loading all the roof shots I got. If you see something you want to explore further or look closer at let me know

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    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    I have similar gaps on the front edge of the hard top, I will be building this up with fiberglass mat so its within a 1/16th or so, and then fairing it with the appropriate fiber filled putty for the balance. that way when the seal is applied it will sit very evenly. its the portion i am dreading the most in the build right now. I will be taking pictures through the whole process for others to see and reference.

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    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    duff33 are you bonding the top to the body or leaving it removable? I bonded mine to make it permanent and also had to build up layers of glass mat & resin to get a tighter fit for the epoxy bond. But if you're making it removable don't forget to leave space for the seal.

    The biggest issue with mine was the lack of symmetry. My top was off more than 1/2" side to side making it a challenge to get the contour lines to match well enough it wouldn't be in your face noticeable. And the body was off even more making it very difficult to fabricate a roll cage under the top and body.

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    Thanks for the info guys, at least I am not alone. I put the hardtop back on the body to see where it rests the hardest, it seems it rest on the inner shell the hardest. I am going to sand down the inner shell then build up the outer shell with fiberglass mat to get it closer to mating. WRP, your photos helped quite a bit, especially the second photos in your first and last post, those are the exect position mine was in when I took the photo. Once the hardtop is on for the final time I do not plan on removing it, but I was not planning on bonding it down, but might rethink that now. I will post some pictures as I go along.

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    Oh and by the way, beautiful paint job !!!!!

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    Mine is not yet bolted down and I do not know what effect that will have on it, with the weather stripping too. I took a couple of shots today of how it sits. Thanks


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    Figured I would post what I am doing to correct the gap. First I put several layers of tape on the body, then covered with shrink wrap. Put the hard top back on in the position I believe it belongs. I then took fiberglass cloth soaked in resin and filled the gap between the bodt and top, after sitting for a day I removed the top (fiberglass does not adhere to the shrink wrap). I sanded the edges, then sanded inside edge to outside edge, filled the difference in hieght with resin, then covered with fiberglass cloth, sanded smooth, then smoothed again with body filler. Placed the hardtop back on and it fits much much better. Next will be prime the edges and inside the hardtop. Pleased with the way it came out.uneven hardtop1 007.JPGuneven hardtop1 005.JPGuneven hardtop1 015.JPGuneven hardtop1 021.JPGuneven hardtop1 024.JPGuneven hardtop1 035.JPGuneven hardtop1 031.JPG

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    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff33 View Post
    Figured I would post what I am doing to correct the gap. First I put several layers of tape on the body, then covered with shrink wrap. Put the hard top back on in the position I believe it belongs. I then took fiberglass cloth soaked in resin and filled the gap between the bodt and top, after sitting for a day I removed the top (fiberglass does not adhere to the shrink wrap). I sanded the edges, then sanded inside edge to outside edge, filled the difference in hieght with resin, then covered with fiberglass cloth, sanded smooth, then smoothed again with body filler. Placed the hardtop back on and it fits much much better. Next will be prime the edges and inside the hardtop. Pleased with the way it came out.uneven hardtop1 007.JPGuneven hardtop1 005.JPGuneven hardtop1 015.JPGuneven hardtop1 021.JPGuneven hardtop1 024.JPGuneven hardtop1 035.JPGuneven hardtop1 031.JPG
    Hey there, going to do something similar to that however I am doing it all with the body on the car to ensure that when its aligned they are synced together in their spot. I did notice that you covered the steel bar that is adhered to the shells and filled in the gap, Are you going to use longer Rivnuts or will you be coring down through your laminate sandwich to the steel then installing the Rivnut? I have been struggling with that one in my mind a bit as to what is the best thing to do, thoughts??
    Looks great and a nice even gap, like the final product too. I am trying to keep any filler to a thickness less than an eighth in all this.

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    I believe the rivnuts are offset towards the inside of the shell. It was the inside that sat well on the body, so the inside edge only has a couple of layers of fiberglass cloth, fingers crossed that the stock rivnuts will work. I might add a couple of extra ones just to make sure.

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    duff33, you may have to counterbore the glass to get the short rivet nuts to anchor in the metal imbed at the windshield area. It's very difficult to get the rivet nuts to properly anchor here. If you're not planning on removing the top I'd suggest you use 1/4" diameter rivets instead of rivet nuts, they will hold much better than the rivet nuts in that area. I used a 3" spacing and it made for a sturdy joint.

    On the back section I used the type of rivet nut made for plastic as they have much more area than ones made for sheetmetal like supplied in the kit. I installed them in the top and bolted through the body. This made a very secure joint. If you are not planning to remove the top you might want to consider this method too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAZ View Post
    duff33, you may have to counterbore the glass to get the short rivet nuts to anchor in the metal imbed at the windshield area. It's very difficult to get the rivet nuts to properly anchor here. If you're not planning on removing the top I'd suggest you use 1/4" diameter rivets instead of rivet nuts, they will hold much better than the rivet nuts in that area. I used a 3" spacing and it made for a sturdy joint.

    On the back section I used the type of rivet nut made for plastic as they have much more area than ones made for sheetmetal like supplied in the kit. I installed them in the top and bolted through the body. This made a very secure joint. If you are not planning to remove the top you might want to consider this method too.
    NAZ,

    I am planning to make my hardtop permanent also. There is just something about the top coming off at 130+ mph that just doesn't appeal to me. What epoxy did you use for the bond between the body and top, and did I understand correctly that you riveted it also?
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    I used evercoat panel adhesive, bolts and fiberglass inside and out. Build thread starting @ 68

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  20. #17
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    HVACMAN, after some research and consulting with folks more knowledgeable than me in this area, I ended up using 3M Panel Bond. This is an epoxy and will stick to the glass but the resin won't stick to it when cured so you have to be careful when applying it and wipe off any excess right-quick. Yes, I used a belt and suspenders approach when bonding my top. Epoxy, 1/4" diameter rivets and 1/4"rivet nuts thru the embed in the front (already had the rivet nuts installed otherwise would have used all 1/4" rivets). In the rear I used epoxy and 1/4" rivet nuts designed for plastic materials -- they look like drywall moly bolts where several pedals expand as you cinch them down creating a much larger surface to anchor them. You'd have to pul out a half-dollar size hole to pull the rivet nuts out of their position. Unfortunately, there's not enough room to use these in the front so 1/4" rivets are the next best thing.

    Since I'm building a drag racer I too was concerned with the top pealing off at speed or coming loose from tire shake. Also, bonding the top takes away any ambiguity about it being a full bodied car vs a "convertible". NHRA rules (and SCCA for that matter) look at removable tops as convertibles (think C-2 Corvettes) and have more stringent roll cage rules you have to comply with. A full funny car cage is not practical on the street and downright hazardous without a helmet.

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    Thank you very much for the info, great to have the forum so you get to pick other peopls brains. So the hard top is directly glued to the body, no rubber half moon strips between?

  23. #19
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    Yes, most folks that make their top permanent go ahead and bond it to the body and glass fill the seams to make it look like it came this way from FFR. Mine fit well enough on the inside that I left the parting lines but the exterior parting lines are filled with fiberglass and look as the top and body are one. I had to build up the rear mating section to reduce the gap to ~1/8" to ensure a good bond but I was able to sand the front edge to make a good fit without building up material to fill the gap there. A casual observer won't notice the interior parting lines even if setting in the car. And with the seats and roll cage blocking your view it's hard to even see the rear interior parting line.

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    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    If any of you want to PERMANENTLY want to affix your hard top to the body, you should be using Plexus MA-550, http://itwplexus.co.uk/products/plexus-products/ma550/, this is a strucutral adhesive which is specifically made to bond fiberglass AND will fill some of the gap that you may have. Once set the only way to remove the top is by tearing the gelcoat from the fiberglass or cutting it off. you may put one or two anchors but it would truly not be necessary. The only drawback to this would be that it uses a special applicator gun which is expensive but similar guns can be rented at some rental locations. This is well worth the investment for the safety required.

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    Just as a quick update, I took the hot rod for a ride down the street with the hard top on and the studs in the rivnuts just finger tight. All the rivnuts in the front pulled out. So, I did counter bore down to the metal insert and reinstalled the rivnuts so they gripped the metalSept 2018 003.JPG. Then added several more just for the extra insurance.Sept 2018 005.JPG

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    Should do the trick if they hold into the metal embed. And of course using epoxy made for bonding panels. I then used 3M Marine High Strength Filler all around the parting line to fill in the gap before adding glass cloth and resin. Mine came out like the top was molded with the body all one piece.
    5.jpg

  28. #23
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    I recall this same discussion a couple years ago. All the suggestions above are good. I used longer steel rivnuts in back with body washers on the compression side and more fiberglass mat in the cowl area with large body washers epoxied in front. The rear metal was off center and I reinforced both the top and body in rear. I wanted my roof removable so I could add more cage later. My roof was a parallelogram also. I think I also used 12 point bolts in the back so I could get the top of without unbolting the Kirkey in back. I seem to recall changing the front studs under the windshield to a different fastener system. Much unhappiness and I didn't take photos apparently.

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