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Thread: Side Windows

  1. #1
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    Side Windows

    I'd be very interested in anybody's experience building their own door windows.

    Well ... this IS an exercise in creativity, is it not?

    Parts [list] now includes 1/4" Polycarbonate, Aluminum U-channel, bulb weatherstrip for the window surround, U-channel weatherstrip for the door edge, SS strapping for mounting to existing door frame mount points. And then there is all the bits related to a sliding window and vent.

    Anybody else tackled this yet?

    :-)

  2. #2
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    I have the FFR frames, but plan on having glass cut and tempered to put in the frames. Still trying to decide if I need the sliding windows, since I plan on putting in a pop out vent.
    Screenshot_20230823-223233_Chrome.jpg
    I will likely do glass for the quarter windows as well. Hoping it will help with the sound and thermals. I thought about making power windows, but decided that might be too much work.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by burchfieldb View Post
    I have the FFR frames, but plan on having glass cut and tempered to put in the frames. Still trying to decide if I need the sliding windows, since I plan on putting in a pop out vent.
    Screenshot_20230823-223233_Chrome.jpg
    I will likely do glass for the quarter windows as well. Hoping it will help with the sound and thermals. I thought about making power windows, but decided that might be too much work.
    Thank you!

    I am planning to stay with the polycarbonate (1/4") for the side windows. If anything, it is easier to cut a clean hole for pop-outs such as yours (which I like because they are clear) or for 3.5" stainless discs on a central pivot, such as was used on the originals.

    I found some decent aluminum U-channel that fits the polycarbonate (see: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086SDKPS6...roduct_details).
    I am using rubber edge seal for the door lip (see: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BFBF7NM9...t_details&th=1) and kit provided bulb seal for the front and top window inset

    Then it is TIG welding exercise to fashion door brackets for the bottom window U-channel - I will likely leverage (pun intended) the 4 door frame mounting bolts to mount the brackets. Net is that the window is mounted to the door frame, not the fiberglass, there is a rubber buffer surround, and there is at most 1/2" of window frame occlusion, i.e.: max visibility. We'll see how it comes out :-)

    I will go with sliding windows (another benefit of working with polycarbonate ..) as my cab enjoys no AC or heating system

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by burchfieldb View Post
    I have the FFR frames, but plan on having glass cut and tempered to put in the frames. Still trying to decide if I need the sliding windows, since I plan on putting in a pop out vent.
    Screenshot_20230823-223233_Chrome.jpg
    I will likely do glass for the quarter windows as well. Hoping it will help with the sound and thermals. I thought about making power windows, but decided that might be too much work.
    Thank you!

    I am planning to stay with the polycarbonate (1/4") for the side windows. If anything, it is easier to cut a clean hole for pop-outs such as yours (which I like because they are clear) or for 3.5" stainless discs on a central pivot, such as was used on the originals.

    I found some decent aluminum U-channel that fits the polycarbonate (see: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086SDKPS6...roduct_details).
    I am using rubber edge seal for the door lip (see: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BFBF7NM9...t_details&th=1) and kit provided bulb seal for the front and top window inset

    Then it is TIG welding exercise to fashion door brackets for the bottom window U-channel - I will likely leverage (pun intended) the 4 door frame mounting bolts to mount the brackets. Net is that the window is mounted to the door frame, not the fiberglass, there is a rubber buffer surround, and there is at most 1/2" of window frame occlusion, i.e.: max visibility. We'll see how it comes out :-)

    I will go with sliding windows (another benefit of working with polycarbonate ..) as my cab enjoys no AC or heating system

  5. #5
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    Have you found any sources for the stainless disc yet? This is where I found the plastic ones. https://www.advanced-autosports.com/...nt=28414968967

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    Here is one:

    https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Cho..._hp_atf_m&th=1

    I am not sure I like the brushed look tho. With a hole cutter and a lot of patience and great clamping, one can have at it on sheet stock.

    Here is the brass half round from online metals I intend to use to create an axle (if you will): https://accstorefront.cumfetag-thyss...r%3A0.312%2522

  7. #7
    Senior Member rhk118's Avatar
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    Bob - what's the stainless disc for? A pop out vent in the window?

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    Not a pop-out per se (although one such vent was shown by BurchfieldB above). Rather very similar to the orginal coupes, it is a disc on an axle that one can set flush or use it to scoop a bit of the air coming off the a-pillar deflectors in through the nose of the side windows: Here is a shot of one of the originals at the Shelby American Collection in Boulder CO:

    window vents.jpg

    This weekend is the annual Shelby American Collection Car Show and Picnic. I will be showing off my Coupe. Peter Miles and Peter Brock will both be in attendance. I am looking forward to the show :-)

    The windows I am building are very similar to that shot, albeit without a surround, and using the 4 door frame / door FG mount points for the 3/16" AL strapping mounted to the 1/4" U-Channel along the base of the polycarbonate. Been spending more than a little time working out those design details recently ;-)

    A lot of finish work to do, but here is a shot of the "glass":

    Lexan.jpg

    It is interesting to note the subtle geometry differences between DS and PS. Each window needs a bit of tweaking.

    I won't install these until the snow is flying this Winter. I am still second guessing whether I will cut NACA ducts into the roof too :-|
    Last edited by LateApex; 09-01-2023 at 02:03 PM.

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    Senior Member rhk118's Avatar
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    Ahh I see on the pop-outs Bob. I love what you're doing. I took a bunch of pictures of a McCluskey Dayton Coupe Replica (Allegedly Coupe #7) at a Shelby show I attended last year in Michigan. Here are the shots I have of their windows (there were 2 of them actually, both identical). Hopefully they help. That plastic round vent can be purchased - maybe this helps: https://www.plastics4performance.com...race-rally-car

    In any event here are the pictures, hopefully something helps. unfortunately I didn't get a shot of how they are installed from the inside other than the bit you can see in the latch photo I took:













  11. #10
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    https://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php

    Snapvents - closeable and rotatable from the inside.

    I have them on the driver side window of my Coupe - but not on the passenger side as they would block the side mirror (Ninja motorcycle mirrors).

    Dave
    Gen III #17
    19,500 miles
    Last edited by Dave Tabor; 09-04-2023 at 07:32 PM.

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  13. #11
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    Thanx Dave!

    I found a couple of options at Aircraft Spruce and Specialty, which is a great resource for a number of items. These pop outs are commonly used in light aircraft and helicopters. Inexpensive too - $30 for a pair of vents in the 3.25" range

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    window vents.jpg

    These are the vents I was originally thinking about, but am now leaning to the pop-outs :-)

    These are installed on CSX2299 which has a home at the Shelby American Collection in CO. This car was driven to 1st at Lemans in '64 by Gurney and Bondurant and many others in '64 & '65.

    This car was numbered 15 at Sebring in '64, driven by Bondurant and Schlesser to 1st in GT, seen in this poster (which shows all six of the Coupes):

    Poster.jpg
    Last edited by LateApex; 09-04-2023 at 11:48 AM.

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    Another update: Work In Progress

    Here are several shots of the window mounting hardware for the DS and PS doors.

    First is a look at how the PS hardware is mounted to the door:

    IMG_2026.jpg

    I am waiting for a couple of fasteners which are en route, hence the clamps. Everything needs to be "finished" as well. What you see is 1/4" x 1" x 12" AL brackets mounted to the door frame with the same button head screws that holds the FG doors to the door frame. It looks a bit skewed, but that is an artifact of my photography :-)

    This is what the window hardware looks like from the exterior:

    IMG_2027.jpg

    Yup, that is all you see from the outside. I am angling for max visibility through the side windows. You see also bulb seal around the perimeter, and some rubber edging along the door edge. This is providing the seal for the polycarbonate, which I'll show at a later time.

    Here are a couple shots of the hardware I have used:

    IMG_2023.jpg

    These are the "straps" which mount to the door frame. These are bent to align the window channel (hence the window) such that the window mates with bulb seal and door edging. Just using a cheapo brake from Harbor Freight. I can tweak the bend to accommodate door alignment tolerances pretty easily. Loosen 4 bolts and correct window alignment for a door. I am using some thin silicon rubber for gaskets between painted door and straps (also shown) Fasteners are 5/16" SS button head screws, 1.75" long for the door frame attachment and 0.75" for the strap to channel attachment.

    I am using PEM studs to assemble 1/4 AL U-channel (which will receive the polycarbonate) to 1" x 1" AL Corner strip, which I have trimmed to 1" x 0.375")

    IMG_2024.jpgIMG_2025.jpg

    I probably could have welded these parts together, but I $uck at TIG welding, and scrap would have broken the bank. The challenge is getting a fastener inside a 1/4" channel, hence a 10-24 PEM stud. The nut for holding the L bracket also needs to be 1/4" narrow. I will be using 10-24 SS barrel nuts (these are coming in two days from McMaster ...)

    Some work left to do to finish the windows themselves, mostly sanding edges and mounting sliders for the opening panels. Then it is RTV and cross-pins to secure windows to channels, and a little tweaking on the mounting straps.

    This takes a bit of time, but as I am retired, I have lots of that :-)

  17. #14
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    Here is a shot of the PS set in place:

    IMG_2028.jpg

    Note the door frame varies from one side to the other (PS is about 3/4" longer !) An artifact of body tolerances. Each window (and channel) is "custom"

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    Senior Member rhk118's Avatar
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    Looking great Bob!

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    Here is the first pass at the side windows:

    Side windows.jpg

    Snap vents are on back order, but those can be installed in just a few minutes when they do arrive. I think I will stiffen up the window mounting a bit - after the snow starts to fly :-)

  20. #17
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    Very Interesting custom feature. Looks Promising!
    I was thinking about a frameless door window for my own Gen 3 Coupe, in flat tempered glass, but never went beyond the design research.
    In the end, I decided to just stick with the Factory Five offered Gen 3 Door window kit, but, did add a custom touch.

    I'm heading for a late October 2023 completion, Arizona inspection/registration and then soon after a revealing of my car, so stay on the lookout.

    On your design, how is the bottom of the plexiglass "safely and effectively" gripped inside the U-Channel?
    I see that you don't have a B-Pillar in the car to support the rear of the door window-pane and also provide sealing in that area. do you have plans for a B-Pillar?

  21. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Brandle View Post
    Very Interesting custom feature. Looks Promising!
    I was thinking about a frameless door window for my own Gen 3 Coupe, in flat tempered glass, but never went beyond the design research.
    In the end, I decided to just stick with the Factory Five offered Gen 3 Door window kit, but, did add a custom touch.

    I'm heading for a late October 2023 completion, Arizona inspection/registration and then soon after a revealing of my car, so stay on the lookout.

    On your design, how is the bottom of the plexiglass "safely and effectively" gripped inside the U-Channel?
    I see that you don't have a B-Pillar in the car to support the rear of the door window-pane and also provide sealing in that area. do you have plans for a B-Pillar?
    The polycarbonate is slightly thinner than the 1/4" AL U-channel I have running the length of the bottom of the window, 0.040" thinner to be precise. I had some 18 gauge AL sheet metal lying around the shop (for some strange reason ;-), so cut some 1/2" wide strips and drifted those into place as a shim. The grip is pretty solid. I drilled that assembly (AL U-channel, shim and Polycarbonate) to accept rolled spring pins, which I pressed in place flush with inner and outer U-channel faces. This locks the "glass" in place.

    The window struts (which are mounted to the door frame using the same bolts used to secure the FG doors) are fairly precisely bent to so that there is a nice pressure against the bulb seal running along the top and front of the door opening. Those struts are 1/4" x 1" Aluminum - they are quite strong. The windows don't vibrate or move, and (after trimming the rear quarter scoops appropriately) the doors open and close quite nicely. I am waiting to see how resilient that cross-pinning assembly is. I had considered running a bead of RTV down the inside of the U-Channel, and can do this fairly easily if needed.

    I have a scheme to apply a short B-pillar section of U channel as needed too. Lastly, I am just cutting rear quarter inserts between keystrokes. Those properly placed, which appropriate side bulb seal will provide additional support for the rear of the glass.

    In a nutshell, jury is out (hence my comment about "first pass ..." earlier in the thread. Pretty happy so far tho ...

    Hope this helps

  22. #19
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    A little follow-up:

    The "frameless" windows are installed

    The system of mounting works reasonably well. As the windows are attached only at the root, they flex a bit, so with the right bias (or bend) on the struts, as I close a door, the windows flex as they meet the bulb seal I have used on the leading and top edges of the window frame in the body, and it is a decent seal.

    Where it gets interesting is at higher speeds, where the cabin is essentially pressurized by the rear window scoops (a.k.a. the "Big Ears"). I have built inner windows for the rear quarters, but they really don't align very well with the door windows, at least right now. So regardless of inner windows, the Big Ears are still pressurizing the cabin.

    As I have mentioned in the past, a key consideration in cabin design is to allow air to exit the cabin. All cars do this in one way or another. I have a NACA duct design to do just that, but I am taking my time before I cut into my roof to install those. The car is painted after all ... Other strategies, such as venting in the camback (rear body section) or other places that not visible at all are also on the table.

    I decided to install "snap vents" in the front corners of the side windows. Note that Snapvent as a company appears to be defunct - no stock is available via any distributor and I have been told the owner intends to sell the business. I found however "Pop It" vents, which can be had from the UK, for about $40 ea. including shipping over the pond. Same basic design. They suggest a 3-1/4" (or 83mm) hole saw. I have figured out that this is code for 83mm hole saw. 3-1/4" is a smidgen too small. Hole sanding is in the forecast.

    So, I have three "little projects" in the works this Winter: 1) Dial in the Pop It Vents, 2) Remove the Big Ears (they serve no function but add drag, they vent nothing (like the brakes they were intended for in 1964) and they pressurize the cabin, and 3) come up with a nicer seal between side window and rear quarter inner window - this may entail cutting a second generation set of rear quarter inner panels. I _MAY_ further stiffen the side windows with a short section of U-Channel at the rear door edge. It is a long Winter ahead, so "may" translates to "likely will" :-)

    When I remove the Big Ears, that lip they sit in becomes obsolete. "Obsolete" means an exercise with body filler, primer and paint to smooth that rear quarter area. Knowing what I know now, I would have dropped the Big Ears a long time ago, and cleaned up the body lines around the rear quarters BEFORE painting the car - Hah!!

    FWIW ...

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  24. #20
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    Another couple of tips re: the sliding side window bits:
    • Use a couple of strips of very thin self-adhering nylon between sliding and fixed window pieces
    • For clearing slight scratches in Lexan / Polycarbonate, a gentle application of a heat gun is recommended :-)

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