Rebuilding a T5

[EZ$]

OK, this question goes out to those that have done this before, whether multiple times, or if you decided to try it as a first time. I've never rebuilt a transmission, but I do have a press and what appears to be all the tools that would be necessary. I had purchased Paul Cangialosi's book on Manual Transmissions, and found two videos on Eric the Car Guys YouTube channel where Paul does a detailed teardown/rebuild over two 1 hour videos.

Question is, would you attempt this rebuild if you were me? I priced having it done by a local shop, but between the cost, and not being certain how well the work would be done I get concerned. I know we have some excellent vendors who could do a great job, but again we come back to the cost. I'm reaching that point where I really don't want to put large sums of cash into things that I originally thought were OK, so if it's something that can be accomplished, even by a novice, with a reasonable result, I think I'd like to go that way.


If you think I'm kidding myself, please let me know. Thanks in advance.


Rick

[cv2065]

I rebuilt my Muncie M21 a couple of years ago. Probably one of the most fun and gratifying things I've done, as it is either right or wrong...No second guessing. If you do decide to do it yourself, Paul Cangialosi has either a book or video to assist. That guy is a transmission guru and is local here in Florida. Was always quick to reply when I sent him questions around the rebuild and I've read that he's a real resource when it comes to T5 trannys.

[mike223]

so if it's something that can be accomplished, even by a novice, with a reasonable result, I think I'd like to go that way.


If you think I'm kidding myself, please let me know. Thanks in advance.

I rebuilt my Muncie M21 a couple of years ago. Probably one of the most fun and gratifying things I've done, as it is either right or wrong...No second guessing.

Probably one of the most nerve wracking, and yet completely gratifying projects I've ever undertaken.

Got the nerve up to go through my T56 3-4 years ago, via watching youtube videos - not at all bad - I understood exactly what I saw on youtube and went for it - success.


Last winter, the wife came home with the Suburban slipping (not operational) in third + fourth.

Watched several youtube videos on rebuilding the 4L60E - went for it.


It's very nerve wracking to take all that stuff all the way apart and then all the way back together before you know if it actually works.

4L60E - another complete success - literally $200 in parts - vs. $1800-$2600 for a reman...


Do you understand what you see on youtube?

If so - you should absolutely go for it.

[scottiec]

DO IT. I did it. Exactly like you. I called Paul, ordered his book and rebuild kit. And guess what? I put it back together, messed things up when testing it on the bench, took it apart, fixed the problem, and BOOM! Trans done. IT IS ONLY A GIANT GEAR KABOB. My advice is to do it yourself, or spend good money and a WELL KNOWN product. No ebay stuff.

PM if you have a question. I can give you my number and chat it through with you.

[EZ$]

CV2065, thanks for that.

Mike, I do understand what I'm watching on the videos, probably more than what I've read in Paul's book. I did the S10 tail shaft swap a while back, and should have continued on through a full rebuild then. Looking at all the parts piled up on that bench in his video makes it just a bit intimidating.

Scottie, I like that, "IT IS ONLY A GIANT GEAR KABOB"!! Thanks for the support offer. Once I get into this I may take you up on it.

Thanks guys. I usually over think these kind of projects. Your responces helped a lot.

[mike223]

Looking at all the parts piled up on that bench in his video makes it just a bit intimidating.

I do advise you to treat it like a gear kabob - especially in this way:

Everything that comes apart gets stacked up upside down in exactly the order it came out - no wondering.

Don't just pile up a jumble of parts - that's only done by the guys who do it for a living.

[walt mckenna]

Reminds me of my early days with big plans and no money. I was in the military at the time and owned a 66 fastback Mustang 289 with 3 speed manual trans. I knew that a top loader 4 speed would replace the 3 speed with no changes other then shifter (I used my Hurst 3 speed shifter for the forward speeds and fabricated a separate lever for reverse). A guy offered me a top loader, close ratio, 4 speed for $50. The only problem was that it was in a box, disassembled down to the needle bearings and 4th gear was frozen to the shaft. I bought the box, obtained an exploded parts diagram of the trans and started on my puzzle. Using the old hot/cold technique, I was able to free 4th gear from the shaft and clean shaft and gear with emery cloth to the point of re-use. Reassembly took many hours but the finished product was so rewarding from a personal accomplishment point of view. I would recommend you go-for-it and enjoy the journey.

[Ducky2009]

First question: Why do you think it needs rebuilt? Is it not functioning properly, or do you feel it just needs going through before use?

It's not too hard. If this is your first, use a GoPro, video the entire disassembly and lay out the parts in the order of disassembly.
NOTE: Don't use compressed air to clean the bearings. "Spinning" dry bearings with air can cause damage. Use a brush and thinner/cleaner.

[EZ$]

Mike, I'll definitely keep everything organized. Pictures too.
Walt, thanks.
Ducky, I bought it from a salvage yard, and I dread putting it in the car and finding out later there's a problem. If I had the ability to start over I would have used all new parts. Just one of those things you learn the hard way. Thanks for the tip on the bearings.

Thanks guys.

Rick

[cv2065]

Mike, I'll definitely keep everything organized. Pictures too.
Walt, thanks.
Ducky, I bought it from a salvage yard, and I dread putting it in the car and finding out later there's a problem. If I had the ability to start over I would have used all new parts. Just one of those things you learn the hard way. Thanks for the tip on the bearings.

Thanks guys.

Rick

I thought the same thing when I rebuilt the M21. I installed new forks, synchros, gaskets, reverse gear and speedo. Why reinstall it half baked when you know you'll be pulling it out in a year if you don't address it.

[TexasAviator]

Build it to t5 z spec and make it custom. This was my first time and did it for about 1000 dollars.

The Tremec design T-5 5 speed transmission has been around since the early 80's. "World Class" models were introduced in 1985. These transmissions feature tapered roller bearings on the cluster, caged needle bearings under the 1st, 2nd and 3rd speed gears on the mainshaft, double synchronizers on 1st and 2nd and steel blocker rings with bonded friction materials. Ford adopted this configuration for 1985 and up production T5's. Similarly, all Ford aftermarket T-5 applications have been "World Class" since 1985. As the demands on this transmission were increased, gear materials were upgraded (8620 to 4620 to4615) and blocker ring lining materials went from paper to carbon fibre.

In 1993 the pocket bearing between the input and mainshaft was changed from a needle bearing to a tapered roller bearing. This was only used in production on the '93-95 Mustang Cobra T5's but was adopted on many high performance aftermarket T-5 applications including the m-7003-z. The T-5 design and manufacturing rights were purchased by Tremec in 1996 and is still being produced in Mexico.

This is the initial build of a my custom 7003-z spec trans from a repurposed WC case, hardened alloy gears, pocket bearing 2.95 input (not needle bearings) from a new distributor based out of Texas, a 070 spec chromoly gear cluster, a unique uncommon 2000 mustang rear case with electronic speedo, and a billet gear pack retainer. Should be plenty of fun at half the price of a frpp 7003-z trans and plenty for my street 450hp 347.


Here is my coveted T5 1993 Cobra mustang input shaft (aka m-7003-Z). This piece is going for hundreds of dollars for used parts but with the new SAE 8620 alloy you can have this kit built for much cheaper as we are experimenting with the Frankenstein. I came across them online.



The differences between the two bearings inside the cup are apparent here. The difference between a needle bearing world class setup (top) and the obvious race and bearing surface in my new input shaft cup (bottom). The input shaft rides directly against the gear output shaft and is either riding on the weaker needle bearings as seen in the T5 WC or they are riding on the tapered bearing and race as seen in the stronger t5 cobra aka t5z input shaft.



The shaft on the right has a smaller surface area on the front side of the output shaft, and the weaker WC is on the left.



Here you can see the installed bearing on the t5z shaft and how it sits in the above input shaft. This is the stronger bearing that Ford even quotes as having 330 lb ft capability compared to the WC has 265 and 300 respectively depending on the gear count.




Billet cluster support plate. The rebuild kit comes with a thin sloppy metal retainer. This replaces that weak part.



Newer smooth t5 cover got rid of NSS hole and cleans up the overall look of the t5z+ frankenstein trans.



Then inside the cover i replaced the finger selector with a stronger 1 piece design.

[TexasAviator]

...

This is the billet gear retainer that is similar to a T5Z and replaces the flimsy rebuild kit parts.



Gears installed.



Here you can see the shafts forward pocket bearing that is similar to the T5Z and Cobra setups.



Cluster gears 1352077070R built in 2016 by motive gear. Nothing like fresh parts.



The parts are out there but you have to assemble the right combo to get the 2.95 gears since they did not come in the any year cobra due to emissions. All transmissions, even the Cobra 93-95 were 3.35 gears. The only 2.95 is aftermarket kits. This is the gear set for all these good parts to come together and make this set a true performer.



This is the rear section above the output shaft and shows the difference in the 1999+ rear tail section allowing us to run a true electronic speedometer.



Here is the rear syncro, brake, and electronic speedometer tone ring (above the fork). This allows a WC transmission to be upgraded to a t5z out back. It now has a brake to stop the annoying reverse grind and brings everything up to T5Z spec. All the best parts and upgrades you can do to the T5 WC (World Class).

[TexasAviator]

...

Finished the transmission build. Possibly the only t5z with electronic Speedo?

[EZ$]

Texas Aviator, interesting build. I plan on doing a couple of mods, but nothing quite this extensive. Curious on the bearing retainer. Is it billet or steel? 5speeds.com offers a steel retainer, as well as a one piece shift finger. Since I'm getting 5speeds rebuild kit it includes the retainer, but the one piece shift finger is an extra. While I'm waiting on parts I may look into the parts necessary for the Z version. Thanks for the info, and have a great 4th!

Rick

[TexasAviator]

Happy 4th. The retainer is bullet. The gears can be had for the z conversion from a guy here in Texas. Google or email [email protected] and read the reviews from this guy. He is awesome and supplied me with all the goodies for cheap

[EZ$]

OK, so I wanted to give an update on how this went. I took my time, followed the book and the videos, and got the trans stripped down completely. Right down to the empty case, and even disassembled the top cover. Everything in the transmission was original, but other than the bearings and synchros, it was in amazing shape. All of the gears were pristine. I don't know, maybe this was out of a Mustang that was wrecked like a week after it was bought! I don't know, but I think I got extremely lucky. I used Paul Cangialosi's rebuild kit, which includes his steel counter gear stabilizer plate. I also got the heavy duty one piece shift finger, and got a tube of anerobic sealant.
It turned out that I was running a fever when I was taking the trans apart, due to the fact that I was in the process of passing about a 5mm kidney stone! Apparently I was not too coherent until I got the infection knocked down. Anyhow, it caused a few issues that Paul was able to walk me through to get corrected, and I was able to get it finished day before yesterday, including setting the end play. Put a shift lever on and was able to take it through the gears. It shifted way smoother than I expected with me doing the rebuild. I have an all steel front bearing retainer ordered through Paul, so I may have to adjust the end play when it arrives. No big thing.
So my take on doing this yourself, for the very first time, get Paul's book, watch the videos, and take your time. As other people have said, keep all the parts organized. All the races, bearings, synchros, spring clips, washers, roll pins, etc. are in the rebuild kit, so keep in mind that all the original stuff is going away. Make sure to get everything as clean as you can. Don't allow dirty parts to go back into the case. The biggest thing was putting the sliders back together. I got a bit disorganized, and put the hubs in backwards when I first built them. Couldn't figure what was wrong, but a picture sent to Paul, and he diagnosed the problem. Easy fix.
This isn't rocket science. As my father in law used to say, "are you telling me that the guy that put that together was smarter than you?" Great motivator over the years.
Thanks so much for all the support guys! If anyone has any questions, let me know, and I'll try to answer them.

Rick

[EZ$]

I forgot to mention, I spent about $500.00.

[Ducky2009]

Congrats on a job well done! Just goes to show how great this forum is and how people are willing to help.

[GFX2043mtu]

Gotta love the forum.

[EZ$]

Ducky, Thanks for the props, but I guess we'll see how good my rebuild was if and when I ever get this thing finished.
GFX, Without the forum things would be much more difficult.

Rick