GTM versus Type 65 coupe (non-R)

[Performance nut]

Hey all. My wife has finally come on board with building a hot rod. Narrowed it down to the Type 65 coupe and the GTM. Both have their strengths and weakness from my perspective so I'm hoping to get some experienced feedback. Our criteria:

1. Can perform well on both the street and track (sub 4 second 0-60, preferably closer to 3; low 11s/high 10second 1/4 mile; flat in the corners without shaking your fillings out on the street; can keep up with cars on auto-x and road course that are equal to build value).
2. Comfortable to cruise in (would be nice to drive in multiple weather conditions and not just sunny days)
3. Something that doesn't require a doctorate in rocket science to get to work and look good
4. Doesn't require a significant number of special tools to build and maintain
5. Complete kit build that is to specification is pretty badass (doesn't turn into a money pit in order to make into a badass car)

Based on what I have read, they both are pretty neck and neck with pluses and minuses. GTM looks the part like a modern day supercar: looks nice inside and out as well as performs well. Looks to be a higher money investment to get badass enough to run with newer Z06's, ZR1's, Porsche's, and the such without converting it to a full on track car. Things like expensive wheels and better than factory C5 parts (built LS engine, improved suspension bits, etc) coupled with a rather significantly expensive and hard to find transaxle are some serious negatives. I use to race Corvettes so I'm familiar with how much some of the bits and pieces cost that make a difference. Plus I have read about fitment issues (rear glass comes to mind) that are above the entry level mechanic to fix. Of the FFR cars, this one seems to be the most expensive yet one of the better looking and best performing vehicles.

On the other hand, the Type 65 uses a significant number of parts that I'm already familiar with (own a modified S550 Mustang GT) and it seems much more straight forward to build as well as a significantly better bang for the buck (Gen2 Coyote power module is coming to mind as well as tons of S550 parts out there right now). It also looks like it will perform up there with a Gen2 Coyote/T56 as a GTM with an LS6/G50 as far as acceleration (top speeds might be different). Exterior looks darn good in my opinion as well as unique. The draw back is it seems a bit more basic on the inside, less cruise worthy (no functional driver/passenger side windows for example), looks to be a challenge to find tires for (18" wheels are not in anymore), and I'm not sure about how it will hold up with the modern sports cars. It is light and the Coyote/T56 is a potent powerhouse without much modification but it is higher, more narrow, and has a smaller selection of tires than the GTM which may make handling and putting power down #2 to a GTM.

If you stayed with me, thank you. I really appreciate your honest feedback!

[turbomacncheese]

I don't have any experience with either one, honestly, but there has to be a reason they are developing a new car based on the new type 65 frame rather than the GTM...

[Performance nut]

I don't have any experience with either one, honestly, but there has to be a reason they are developing a new car based on the new type 65 frame rather than the GTM...

GTM was revised a long time ago. Type 65 changes could be to attract more potential builders maybe?

[GoDadGo]

I'd suggest getting the assembly manuals for both cars and read them each two times, then take a little road trip to Factory Five and view both cars before pulling the trigger on either. Also, if you go down the GTM path then a good source for C-5 Corvette parts is Dino's Corvette Salvage, located in Picayune Mississippi, or simply buy a C-5 that is available in your area.

https://www.corvettesalvage.com/prod...ist-1997-2004/

Another thing to consider is that while the GTM was their flagship, it is still their most difficult to complete, conversely the e Type-65 is very conventional and shares many parts with the FIA and MK-4 platforms.

On a personal note, having seen all of what Factory Five has to offer and being honest about my skills and wallet thickness, my only option was the tried and true MK-4 Roadster.

Good Luck & Welcome To The Factory Five Family!

Steve

[edwardb]

Building a Gen 3 Coupe. Haven't built a GTM but have seen them in various build stages, including completed, and have followed multiple builds. Pretty different in my opinion. Obviously one is Ford centric while the other is GM centric. If that matters. A GTM build is almost for sure going to be more money and much more complex to build. By a lot. The Coupe is based on a race car, and is a little more raw IMO. You mentioned the side windows. Interior is much more basic, although it can be tidied up some if you want. The GTM is more of a super car and probably closer to a DD when finished. But you pay for it with budget and build effort. There are several good 18 inch tire options for the Coupe. Don't see where that's a deciding factor. The Gen 3 Coupe is a brand new design and will be around for a while. The GTM hasn't been refreshed for some time. Not sure what its future is with the upcoming Gen 3 Coupe frame based super car that's going to be released. You might want to wait and see what that's like when it's announced. Should be soon as I understand. By all means look at them in person, and include climbing in and out as a criteria. Including your wife. Both are somewhat challenging.

[Performance nut]

Not sure what its future is with the upcoming Gen 3 Coupe frame based super car that's going to be released. You might want to wait and see what that's like when it's announced. Should be soon as I understand. By all means look at them in person, and include climbing in and out as a criteria. Including your wife. Both are somewhat challenging.

I haven't seen any news on a new design. Thanks for the tip. Where did you get this info?

[mikeinatlanta]

Hands down the type 65. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but performance per $, comfort, cost, and pretty much any other objective measure goes to the coupe. IMO the GTM already looks dated, but the type 65 is a timeless design.

[edwardb]

I haven't seen any news on a new design. Thanks for the tip. Where did you get this info?

You won't see any news because it hasn't been officially announced. There have been a couple threads on the topic with some informal inside information. Here's one: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ics-NEW-COUPE-!. Those that have visited Factory Five recently have been shown pictures and mock-ups, with the understanding they won't be posted on social media. Dave Smith was talking about it and showing pictures apparently during the London Cobra Show. But that's second hand information. I didn't personally witness it. But bottom line, something is happening.

[KDubU]

Go with the coupe IMHO. It’s a stunning car.

[michael everson]

Take it from someone who has build a few of both. Coupe hands down.
mike

[GoDadGo]

Take it from someone who has build a few of both. Coupe hands down.
mike

Excellent Expert Advice From My Perspective!

[Performance nut]

You won't see any news because it hasn't been officially announced. There have been a couple threads on the topic with some informal inside information. Here's one: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ics-NEW-COUPE-!. Those that have visited Factory Five recently have been shown pictures and mock-ups, with the understanding they won't be posted on social media. Dave Smith was talking about it and showing pictures apparently during the London Cobra Show. But that's second hand information. I didn't personally witness it. But bottom line, something is happening.

Wow... that is all I have to say. Thank you for pointing that out.

Take it from someone who has build a few of both. Coupe hands down.
mike

I'm not sure how folks feel about this but could you elaborate why? If folks don't like this sort of critique, could you PM me your input? I appreciate it

[Duke]

I haven't seen any news on a new design. Thanks for the tip. Where did you get this info?

The earliest it was possibly going to be shown was last Sat in RI during the cruise. Obviously didn't make it, but according to Dave it was going to be a full size foam mock up with glass/wheels/etc. Kit delivery sometime in 2019. My guess, probably to be revealed later this summer or at Sema, depending on other marketing campaigns and timing.

For the GTM, make sure you sit in it first. Head room and visibility is, um, limited.

[Garry Bopp]

I'll throw in my 2 cents, FWIW. Do you know the history of the Daytona Coupe? If not, you are missing out of one of the best reasons for building/owning/driving a coupe. The Daytona has a very unique history of beating Ferrari, not only at LeMans in 1964 but also bringing home the World Sports Car Championship in 1965. The GTM is a beautiful, very fast car ... but it replicates ... nothing! The coupe is definitely more basic in the interior but check out FormaCars and what they are doing with a coupe. The windows are more period correct but that can also be modified. Check out Space Clam's coupe build.

BTW, I sat in a GTM once and it was a challenge on entry and exit ... but the coupe is challenging, also, depending on your height. I'm 6'2" so it took a little practice to learn an acceptable technique for entry/exit of my coupe. The Gen 3 coupe offers more headroom as the floorpan is 2.5" lower.

Another advantage to the coupe is that in certain vintage associations, you can race your coupe in vintage races. Check out Karen Salvaggio's Gen 3 Type R.

Good luck with your decision!

Garry

[Performance nut]

I'll throw in my 2 cents, FWIW. Do you know the history of the Daytona Coupe? If not, you are missing out of one of the best reasons for building/owning/driving a coupe. The Daytona has a very unique history of beating Ferrari, not only at LeMans in 1964 but also bringing home the World Sports Car Championship in 1965. The GTM is a beautiful, very fast car ... but it replicates ... nothing! The coupe is definitely more basic in the interior but check out FormaCars and what they are doing with a coupe. The windows are more period correct but that can also be modified. Check out Space Clam's coupe build.

BTW, I sat in a GTM once and it was a challenge on entry and exit ... but the coupe is challenging, also, depending on your height. I'm 6'2" so it took a little practice to learn an acceptable technique for entry/exit of my coupe. The Gen 3 coupe offers more headroom as the floorpan is 2.5" lower.

Another advantage to the coupe is that in certain vintage associations, you can race your coupe in vintage races. Check out Karen Salvaggio's Gen 3 Type R.

Good luck with your decision!

Garry

I won't say I'm very familiar with the Daytona but I'm familiar with it. Its sort of why I gravitated towards it as I'd like to make one hell of sleeper classic. Nostalgic outside with a modern powertrain underneath which is perfect for me. As far as modifying, I saw a video of someone creating a power window for the coupe which I think is pretty awesome. Looked fairly simple concept but I'm no fabricator. I have simple tools that can assemble stuff but not create something like that from scratch like what that guy looks to be doing. I wouldn't mind making the interior nicer, just no idea how to do that.

P.S. I called FFR this morning about this new car. It isn't a GTM replacement, it seems to be more of a new skin on top of the Gen3 chassis. Also said it is a long ways out which seems to align with what others have said. Be that as it may, seems this Gen3 chassis is the way to go from what I'm hearing emphatically.

[wallace18]

I have built both. The GTM is 10X harder to build than the Type65, IMO. The GTM is very hard to get in and out of as well. Depending on the powertrain used difference in performance is nominal, IMO.

[Performance nut]

I have built both. The GTM is 10X harder to build than the Type65, IMO. The GTM is very hard to get in and out of as well. Depending on the powertrain used difference in performance is nominal, IMO.

This is what I'm looking for. In my initial post, I was comparing a Gen2 Coyote/T56 to a 2002 LS6/G50 six speed. The engines are comparable as far as power but the transmissions have different ratios. The GTM is heavier so I would give it to the Type 65 on acceleration. Though I'm a curve kind of guy. Hitting a curve and pulling 1g is more of a big deal for me than a fast 0-60mph. I only use 0-60 to help me gauge how a car will respond coming out of a turn

With that understanding, to clarify, would you rank the GTM and Type 65 the same in an auto-x or road course? Let's assume similar powerplant and drivetrain.

[wallace18]

This is what I'm looking for. In my initial post, I was comparing a Gen2 Coyote/T56 to a 2002 LS6/G50 six speed. The engines are comparable as far as power but the transmissions have different ratios. The GTM is heavier so I would give it to the Type 65 on acceleration. Though I'm a curve kind of guy. Hitting a curve and pulling 1g is more of a big deal for me than a fast 0-60mph. I only use 0-60 to help me gauge how a car will respond coming out of a turn

With that understanding, to clarify, would you rank the GTM and Type 65 the same in an auto-x or road course? Let's assume similar powerplant and drivetrain.

I believe you can make either one out perform the other. The 65 is no slouch in cornering. The GTM has some limitations with bump steer and ability for camber changes. They can be fixed by aftermarket stuff. VRaptor is a good source of GTM info.

http://vraptorspeedworks.com

[Presto51]

Quick Disclaimer: I'm a huge fan of the GTM

With that being said. I have to be very honest here, and is not meant in anyway of bad rapping the car.

After tangling with three of them, I have to admit, the GTM will take you to the limits of your craftsmanship capabilities, and patience. Doesn't matter if your a novice or experienced builder/fabricator.

The chassis/go kart is not any worse that the other FFR offerings, most can get that part done in average six or seven months, working on it part time.

The body portion is it's Achilles heel, getting it to fit and function correctly is a huge challenge, if you don't like, or have fiberglass experience this will put a world of hurt on you. If you go through that "crucible" and land on the finished side, you will experience a great accomplishment of pride, knowing that you created something that few have done, or willing to do. Kind of like going through Special Forces training

Assuming that most folks that like the looks of the GTM, try to achieve a finished look, that stands up next to the exotic supercars that you see, which can be done (example: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...os-of-GTM-327-!) but it's not easy, and there are not a lot of custom shops willing to take it on, but if they do, be careful that it's doesn't go into body shop jail, and bring a truck load of money.

Like I said, not trying to lay a bad rap, just being honest, to help you make a good decision so your project doesn't go unfinished.

Ron

[GSides9]

Did we miss the front engine part of the Type 65 and rear engine part of the GTM? And more GM powertrains are being installed in Type 65s every day, but won't come close to the number of Fords. Especially Coyotes. My Coupe is a racecar that I can drive on street. And it is a racecar that I built. Air Conditioning and an Ez-Pass handles most of the need for opening windows.


Glen

[Performance nut]

Quick Disclaimer: I'm a huge fan of the GTM

With that being said. I have to be very honest here, and is not meant in anyway of bad rapping the car.

After tangling with three of them, I have to admit, the GTM will take you to the limits of your craftsmanship capabilities, and patience. Doesn't matter if your a novice or experienced builder/fabricator.

The chassis/go kart is not any worse that the other FFR offerings, most can get that part done in average six or seven months, working on it part time.

The body portion is it's Achilles heel, getting it to fit and function correctly is a huge challenge, if you don't like, or have fiberglass experience this will put a world of hurt on you. If you go through that "crucible" and land on the finished side, you will experience a great accomplishment of pride, knowing that you created something that few have done, or willing to do. Kind of like going through Special Forces training

Assuming that most folks that like the looks of the GTM, try to achieve a finished look, that stands up next to the exotic supercars that you see, which can be done (example: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...os-of-GTM-327-!) but it's not easy, and there are not a lot of custom shops willing to take it on, but if they do, be careful that it's doesn't go into body shop jail, and bring a truck load of money.

Like I said, not trying to lay a bad rap, just being honest, to help you make a good decision so your project doesn't go unfinished.

Ron

Great points. I do want to finish this (I believe everyone does when they start) but don't like major blocking issues as I don't have countless hours to pour into a project like this. Pour cash to replace hours makes me want to buy a production car instead.

Did we miss the front engine part of the Type 65 and rear engine part of the GTM? And more GM powertrains are being installed in Type 65s every day, but won't come close to the number of Fords. Especially Coyotes. My Coupe is a racecar that I can drive on street. And it is a racecar that I built. Air Conditioning and an Ez-Pass handles most of the need for opening windows.


Glen

Not sure what you are getting out with the engine mounting position. Aside from the PIA transaxle issue, I don't see a problem with where the engine lies. And BTW, the 5.2L Voodoo would be pretty badass in a GTM. High revving flatplane crank that makes power... pretty cool IMO. Too bad they can't make the GT equipment more available, the ecoboost V6 with the Getrag 7DCL750 would also be rather interesting to see in a GTM.