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Thread: Declaring success: New SBF w/ FiTech EFI hesitation/sputtering problem solved!

  1. #41
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    If you're not willing to "tune" a carb then that's not going to be the best choice. I believe you'd be better off finding the problem with your EFI or taking it to a shop and have them fix it.

    You're describing a fuel supply issue and it seems the intermittent lean condition has been happening all along. If the pump is shutting off when you are driving the car I'd start there. The two most likely causes of the pump shutting off may be faulty wiring (and I'm including your power source in that) or a faulty pump. If you've verified all the wiring (including the ground -- and don't run a ground wire to aluminum) is good then you may want to hot wire the pump from a dedicated (and fused) circuit that you are sure will be constant hot while you perform another test drive. If the pump still drops out and nothing else is obvious it may be time to simply replace it and see if the problem persists.

    I've never liked the idea that you power the EFI from the positive coil terminal -- don't know that this is a problem with your system but some systems don't like this power source. It's not the cleanest power but if the manufacturer's wiring diagram shows this as a point to pull power from that may not be a concern.

  2. #42
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    What is the filter you have on the tank side of the fuel pump? If it is more than just a screen or sock, it may be part or all of your problem. Is your external fuel pump lower than the gas tank? Unless your FI kit instructions spec a location, I would put it at the same level as the bottom of the tank. The pump should also be as close to the tank as possible, Pumps are made to push fuel. If you can attach a fuel pressure gauge to the system, run the hose out and tape the gauge to the windshield.
    Keep posting, I will bet we can find the problem.

    I re read the full post, OK I scanned it. Any chance your fuel tank is full of trash. It sounds like the clogged filter you found has come back. Maybe the pickup sock or screen is clogged.
    Last edited by Railroad; 08-07-2018 at 07:58 AM.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies, guys.

    NAZ,
    I've double- and triple-checked the pump wiring and ground and they're good. The data log files show good voltage to the FiTech unit (which supplies the power to the pump). So I leaning towards faulty pump, not faulty power or wiring. The last time I drove the car (Monday), several times the pump got a little quieter and then just shut off. I turned off the key and turned it back on and the pump started running again - full volume. FiTech tech support has agreed to look at the pump, so I'm shipping it back to them for them to test. We'll see what the test results reveal. I'm also wondering about the throttle body unit itself. When I received it, it had a faint smell of gasoline. I've asked FiTech tech support if they test every throttle body with gas prior to sale, but they haven't answered yet. If I received a used unit, sold as a new one, I'm going to be a bit upset.

    At this point, I would welcome spending a weekend fine-tuning a carb! It may still come to that.


    Railroad,
    I'm using the FiTech-supplied filters and pump. The pre-pump filter is a 100 micron, sintered metal filter. It and the pump are mounted lower than the tank bottom and less than 3 feet of hose from the tank. The post-pump filter is a 60 micron metal screen filter. Both can be opened up and the filter elements inspected and cleaned. I checked both that they're not blocked.

    I'm going to drop the tank tomorrow and clean it out to make sure there's no junk in it.


    David
    Last edited by Cobradavid; 08-12-2018 at 06:51 PM.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member brewha's Avatar
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    My Fitech had an odor to it when it was new, but it was more like a starter fluid... While your tank is out you may want to blow out the fuel lines in case some thing is lodged in there.
    Last edited by brewha; 08-11-2018 at 09:22 AM.

  5. #45
    Papa's Avatar
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    Is it possible you have contamination in the fuel system. You mentioned that you had a clogged filter in an earlier post.
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  6. #46

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    Certainly sounds like vapor lock to me. I'm not a fan of in-line pumps for just that reason. FiTech was very careful when answering my question on whether I could use the stock Ford in-tank pump when I recently did a FiTech install on a customer car. I got the feeling they were trying to up sell us on their fuel command unit. Turns out the Ford in-tank pump work perfect.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Thanks, guys.

    The FiTech pump is on its way back to them for testing. I dropped the tank yesterday and it was clean. The last ~pint of fuel I poured out of it had a very small amount (probably a gram or two) of very fine particulate. Certainly not anything big or not enough to clog any filter. The fuel pickup tube has a screen on it and the screen was also clean.

    Per brewha's advice, I also blew out all the fuel lines while I had stuff apart. I didn't see any contamination blown out.

    i.e.427, I'm 99% sure this isn't the original fuel tank, but it's still an original style (1966) Ford Ranchero replacement tank and doesn't have provisions for an in-tank pump. If I go that route, I'll have to get a different tank also. One thing that sold me on this FiTech system was not requiring an in-tank pump and being able to use their in-line pump.

    We'll see what FiTech's pump test/inspection reveals and go from there.

    Silver lining: although it will be stinkin' hot tomorrow (it's August in Houston, so of course it's hot), the forecast has negligible precipitation so I'll be driving the cobra to work!

    David
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    FYI - I heard back from FiTech and they DO test every unit on a running engine. That explains the slight gasoline smell. Good to know.

    David
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  9. #49
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    Curious as to whether you heard back from Fitech regarding testing your pump? While this certainly has all the indications of a fuel starvation issue it is still the same symptoms we had when we installed my brother's Fitech which turned out to be timing and was solved by adding the adjustable rotor. We chased fuel etc just as you are doing. When talking to Fitech they never talked about the adjustable rotor. He had bought their complete kit so we just didn't put 2 and 2 together until we talked to their tech guy. You must have the Fitech "paddle"on the distributor shaft lined up (centered) with it's signal unit and at the same time the rotor has to be pointed at #1 (in our case). This could not be accomplished with the fixed rotor. We could get on the edge of each which allowed it to start but it ran just like yours. We put the adjustable rotor in it, set the paddle correctly and lined the rotor up with number one and locked it down. After that we just adjusted the timing as normal and all is right with the world!

  10. #50
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    AZRealtor,

    Thanks for the information. The data log shows the AFR going way lean (15-20) when the engine starts the hesitating and sputtering thing. Did your brother have that on his system? I'm not using the FiTech to trigger my timing, so would the adjustable rotor be a factor in this?

    I haven't heard back from FiTech yet on testing the pump. They've had the pump for a week now.

    David
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  11. #51
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    The data logger did show lean which is why Fitech suggested putting the stand alone pressure regulator on which we did. Basically all it ended up doing was verifying it wasn't a fuel pressure issue. Even though you are not using the Fitech to set timing, when the engine is at TDC the rotor needs to be in the correct position (centered) on number one plug wire while the Fitech Paddle on the distributor shaft is centered on the trigger mechanism. You can then adjust timing normally from there. With a fixed rotor we could get close enough on the paddle sensor and the distributor cap to make it run but could not get the timing adjusted correctly and as I said it ran and drove just as you are describing.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    AZRealtor,

    Thanks again for the information. I don't have a FiTech paddle on my distributor. My FiTech is getting the tach signal by attaching the blue wire to the coil (-) terminal.

    I just got an e-mail from FiTech and the fuel pump tested bad, so they're sending me a new one. Hopefully that will resolve the issue!

    David
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  13. #53
    Blue Oval Scribe Mustang Man's Avatar
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    A little late to the convo, but I've installed a FiTech in a '66 Mustang with their Fuel Command unit in the top of the tank and have had no such issues. Certainly sounded like a fuel issue and hope the replacement pump fixes it. Worked on a few Rancheros in my time an sadly, though the tank LOOKS like a Mustang tank (inverted) the current line of drop-in EFI tanks for classic Mustangs won't work on the Ranchero. You'd have to modify the tank with something like the Fuel Command unit or a basic EFI pump tray from Tanks Inc or the Aeromotive Stealth setup.

    However, I do have a suggestion to check fuel pressure, as I recently set one of these up to verify pressure on a Holley Sniper EFI install. Earl's sells a 0-100 EFI gauge and a AN -6 fuel gauge adapter. It allows you to simply unscrew the supply line from the TBI and put the gauge in-line. If you want to see the gauge while driving simply extend the gauge from the port with a small -4 AN hose and some NPT adapters.

    https://www.holley.com/products/plum...ts/AT100199ERL

    https://www.holley.com/products/plum...arts/100187ERL

    HTH...
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  14. #54
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Mark,

    Thanks for the info.

    I finally received the replacement fuel pump from FiTech - they sent one but it had incorrect fittings so they sent another.

    The new pump is installed and I verified no leaks. I drove the Ranchero ~10 miles and there were no issues. I was watching the AFR and I never saw it go over 14, so I seem to have consistent, good fuel flow.

    I need to put more miles on it to let the FiTech learn the perfect tune, but it seems to be running well and has good power. I'm on the verge of declaring success!

    David
    Last edited by Cobradavid; 09-01-2018 at 12:00 PM.
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  15. #55
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    Good job! Persistence pays off.

  16. #56
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Thanks, NAZ. And thanks for all your suggestions and help!

    David
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  17. #57
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Finally done with this problem??

    After a couple of weeks driving the Ranchero with the new fuel pump, it started acting up again. Same symptoms as before: the pump got noisy, the AFR would lean out, and the engine would stumble.

    Even though the pump was installed within the restrictions in the instructions (less than 3' and lower than the bottom of the tank), I suspect it was still cavitating because it was drawing sucking fuel through ~30" of fuel line. I decided to ditch the frame-mount, in-line fuel pump and installed an in-tank pump.

    So far, it seems to be working. We'll see how it goes.

    David
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  18. #58
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    A reasonable approach given that the inline pumps seem to be problematic. Good luck.

  19. #59
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    One week later: still good!

    I've been driving the Ranchero to get break-in miles on the engine. Had variable weather conditions last week with different temperatures and humidity levels and the FiTech system is running great. No issues at all with the fuel pump.

    Lesson learned: don't do the in-line fuel pump at all. Use an in-tank pump. I guess the FiTech "Fuel Commander" system is an option also, but I have not experience with it.

    David
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  21. #60
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    Good work David.

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