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Thread: Meindl Mk IV Build - Graduation

  1. #361
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    ...on the dash lights. I didn't realize this could all be linked to the headlights! So i hadn't even thought about that and i don't know if they are on or off. And if the dash goes on when the headlights go on, that could be the cause of this whole issue...
    Right. The dash (instrument) lights are powered through the headlight switch. Same as all DD's. If the parking lights or all lights including headlights are on, the dash lights will also be on.
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  3. #362
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Congrats on getting on the road Pete!
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

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  5. #363
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    Good job getting your car done. Now enjoy

  6. #364

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    Working on debugging the last few remaining electrical issues

    This weekend we spent some time working on trying to solve some of our electrical issues. The main problem had been that even with the ignition in the off position, we still had power going to the dash.
    The good news: Thank you to Paul as his suggestion about the headlight switch on the dash was a big help! We didn't realized that our headlight switch was in the on position and thus we were getting backlit gauges even with the ignition in the off position. When we turn the headlights off, all the backlit gauges go out - so that's great news! Thank you, Paul!
    The stuff we are still working on:
    - Although all the backlit gauges go out when we turn off the headlights, the odometer within the speedometer is still lit up. The backlight of the speedometer goes out but the odometer stays on.
    - The voltage gauge, while not backlit, still seems to show a reading other than the needle pointing to the far left, even with the headlights off. This is also the one gauge that doesn't get backlit when we turn on the headlights.
    - We're trying to diagnose the ignition switch per Paul's advice. I'll get back to you guys once we've narrowed this down. I wish we had had more time this weekend.
    - The headlight switch shaft doesn't seem to be gripping correctly. I think i'm not supposed to be able to pull the shaft out without pushing the release button on the headlight control housing. But it just comes right out if you pull it. I cant seem to get it to lock in there.
    Hope everyone's doing well!

  7. #365
    Papa's Avatar
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    Pete,

    If you just turn the key from the on/run position to the off position, the gauge needles will stay where they were. If you go to the ACC position, the gauges will zero for a short time and then go to their reading positions. I always go to the ACC position until the gauges zero and then switch to the Off position.

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  8. #366

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Pete,

    If you just turn the key from the on/run position to the off position, the gauge needles will stay where they were. If you go to the ACC position, the gauges will zero for a short time and then go to their reading positions. I always go to the ACC position until the gauges zero and then switch to the Off position.

    Dave
    Thanks, Dave! I'll try that out. All these pointers are a big help to us - thanks!

  9. #367
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    - Although all the backlit gauges go out when we turn off the headlights, the odometer within the speedometer is still lit up. The backlight of the speedometer goes out but the odometer stays on. The voltage gauge, while not backlit, still seems to show a reading other than the needle pointing to the far left, even with the headlights off. This is also the one gauge that doesn't get backlit when we turn on the headlights.
    With Speedhut gauges, the needles seem to wander around randomly when powered off. Then when powered on, typically sweep to zero and then to the appropriate setting, e.g. voltage, temp, pressure, etc. I've not noticed any kind of special sequence is necessary for power up or down. Having not installed Autometer gauges like yours, can't verify whether they do the same thing or not. But one of the big differences is that the Speedhut gauges come with daisy chains with connectors for the gauge lighting and power. So it's pretty simple to clip them all together and then have a single connection to the RF harness for power, lighting, and ground. Once complete, they either all work or none work. For your Autometer gauges, however, you have to do all the individual gauge hook-ups. If your ignition switch is wired wrong or defective, all are going to act the same way. Along with anything else on a defective ACC or IGN circuit. The fact that you have individual issues (speedo trip odometer stays on, voltage gauge stays on, single gauge lighting doesn't work) I'm guessing you have some mis-connections in your dash wiring. That's where I'd be looking once you've eliminated the ignition switch. I'm assuming you followed the RF Chassis Wiring Instructions for the Autometer gauges. There it shows making your own daisy chains and hooking up the individual gauges. Somewhere in there you may have some errors.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    - The headlight switch shaft doesn't seem to be gripping correctly. I think i'm not supposed to be able to pull the shaft out without pushing the release button on the headlight control housing. But it just comes right out if you pull it. I cant seem to get it to lock in there.
    Typically that triangular shaft clicks into place when you push it in. Maybe twist it to make sure it's oriented properly. The fact that you didn't know it was on is a little strange though. It should have been sticking out and obvious that it wasn't off. I've actually found that shaft is typically a little too long, and even when pushed all the way in it still sticks out a bit. Which I normally adjust by removing the knob and shortening it a bit. So if you're pushing it all the way in without any resistance or locking, it's possible you have a defective switch. But obviously no way to confirm that. You're right though. The button is normally only used to remove it. You pull the knob out to the second (headlight) position where it should stop. Then hold the button down. It should pull all the way out.
    Last edited by edwardb; 10-22-2019 at 04:32 PM.
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  11. #368

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    With Speedhut gauges, the needles seem to wander around randomly when powered off. Then when powered on, typically sweep to zero and then to the appropriate setting, e.g. voltage, temp, pressure, etc. I've not noticed any kind of special sequence is necessary for power up or down. Having not installed Autometer gauges like yours, can't verify whether they do the same thing or not. But one of the big differences is that the Speedhut gauges come with daisy chains with connectors for the gauge lighting and power. So it's pretty simple to clip them all together and then have a single connection to the RF harness for power, lighting, and ground. Once complete, they either all work or none work. For your Autometer gauges, however, you have to do all the individual gauge hook-ups. If your ignition switch is wired wrong or defective, all are going to act the same way. Along with anything else on a defective ACC or IGN circuit. The fact that you have individual issues (speedo trip odometer stays on, voltage gauge stays on, single gauge lighting doesn't work) I'm guessing you have some mis-connections in your dash wiring. That's where I'd be looking once you've eliminated the ignition switch. I'm assuming you followed the RF Chassis Wiring Instructions for the Autometer gauges. There it shows making your own daisy chains and hooking up the individual gauges. Somewhere in there you may have some errors.



    Typically that triangular shaft clicks into place when you push it in. Maybe twist it to make sure it's oriented properly. The fact that you didn't know it was on is a little strange though. It should have been sticking out and obvious that it wasn't off. I've actually found that shaft is typically a little too long, and even when pushed all the way in it still sticks out a bit. Which I normally adjust by removing the knob and shortening it a bit. So if you're pushing it all the way in without any resistance or locking, it's possible you have a defective switch. But obviously no way to confirm that. You're right though. The button is normally only used to remove it. You pull the knob out to the second (headlight) position where it should stop. Then hold the button down. It should pull all the way out.
    Thanks, Paul! Yeah, your point about something being wrong in our series of dash wiring makes a lot of sense. We will go over each part of gauge wiring and see where we made a mistake once we nail down the ignition switch issue. Interesting about the headlight switch. I'll play around with it some more - ours does seem to have the shaft go all the way in and yet you can still easily pull it right out without pushing the button on the housing. I've read elsewhere some people have had to just jiggle the shaft a little bit to get it to lock in so maybe that will work.

    Thank you for your help! We really appreciate it! Hopefully we will figure this out soon.

  12. #369

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    continuing to work on trying to figure out our wiring issues

    Hi guys, We spent some time today trying to figure out our wiring problems. It's a little like the blind trying to lead the blind unfortunately... but i think we might have made a little progress. A little... Just to refresh people on one of our problems: when using our factory five ignition, our fuel pump turns on whenever we turn on the battery cut off switch even when the ignition switch is in the off position. One possibility we explored was that the ignition switch was somehow providing a connection between the red battery wire and the orange ignition wire even in the off position. However, after a bunch of multimeter testing (thank you, Paul, for the good guidance on this!), i think the problem isn't the switch, it's that we have connectivity between the red battery wire and the brown acc wire somewhere in our wiring system outside of the switch. And then I think what happens with our switch is that we have connectivity from the brown to the orange within the ignition switch (even when it is off) and this turns on the fuel pump even when the ignition is in the off position.

    We have tried a generic ignition switch before and the fuel pump did not turn on in the off position. Why? With the other ignition switch we bought, there isn't connectivity between ACC and Ignition in the off position and so that's why we didn't get this issue when we tried the generic, non ff, switch.

    At least I think that's what's going on. But again, this is the blind leading the blind so we could have misdiagnosed this.

    So, I think that means we need to figure out where the connectivity is somewhere in our wires between the red battery wire and the brown acc wire. And that this connectivity is probably a mistake. Does that make sense to you guys? If anyone's run into this before or has spotted an area where a typical amateur idiot would make this sort of mistake, your thoughts would be very very welcome as we're not really sure where to begin in terms of tracking this down.

    Thanks, guys! Hope everyone is doing well and enjoying the weekend.

  13. #370
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Hoped that someone else would see something and jump in. But not so far. It’s interesting, I guess, that the FF ignition switch has continuity between the IGN and ACC terminals when in the off position. I have a spare one here and was able to confirm that it does. Didn’t know that but shouldn’t matter. In the off position, there is no continuity between the BAT position (the only one with +12V power in) and any of the other terminals. The fact that your generic switch doesn’t have continuity between the IGN and ACC terminals when in the off position is perhaps a clue, but I’m not seeing it yet. I do feel confident saying that I don’t think the problem is the ignition switch. It’s somewhere else. I have a couple ideas but need to understand these specific points. Some of this may even have been discussed before. But, to be honest, a little bit losing track. Please respond to each, maybe even referencing the numbers.

    1. When you say the “pump runs” when the master disconnect is switched on, even when the ignition switch is off, does it run continuously? Or just run briefly and then shut off? This is a very important point and need to understand exactly what the pump is doing.

    2. There was a discussion early on about the brown alternator wire. Did you remove that wire at the alternator and the ignition switch? In other words, that wire is completely gone or both ends are not connected to anything and isolated.

    3. There’s no other connection to the alternator other than the large red battery wire and the Coyote harness connection?

    4. When the master disconnect is on and the ignition key is off, what other circuits are active? This also is a very important point. Looking at the RF harness schematic, the only circuits that should be active when the ignition key is off are those listed in the BATT FED section. Headlight SW, brake, horn, and cooling fan. Nothing else from the ACC FED and IGN FED sections should be alive. Please confirm exactly what’s on and off in detail with the key in the off position.
    Last edited by edwardb; 11-03-2019 at 07:50 AM.
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  14. #371

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    Answering Paul's questions

    Thank you, Paul! I’ve copied your questions here and put our answers in following each question. Hopefully this is helpful! We don't have all the answers yet to each of the power questions but it looks like there is a lot more power going to things than we should have, unfortunately...

    Paul Question 1. When you say the “pump runs” when the master disconnect is switched on, even when the ignition switch is off, does it run continuously? Or just run briefly and then shut off? This is a very important point and need to understand exactly what the pump is doing.

    Answer 1: The pump runs (makes some noise) for 1-2 seconds and then is quiet.

    Paul Question 2. There was a discussion early on about the brown alternator wire. Did you remove that wire at the alternator and the ignition switch? In other words, that wire is completely gone or both ends are not connected to anything and isolated.

    Answer 2: Yes, I think we did this correctly on both ends. Here's a picture of our ignition switch with an arrow pointing to the brown alt wire we disconnected:


    And here's the brown wire at the alternator:



    Paul Question 3. There’s no other connection to the alternator other than the large red battery wire and the Coyote harness connection?

    Answer 3: Yes, that's correct from what i can see. Here's a picture showing the 2 connections to the alternator:



    Paul Question 4. When the master disconnect is on and the ignition key is off, what other circuits are active? This also is a very important point. Looking at the RF harness schematic, the only circuits that should be active when the ignition key is off are those listed in the BATT FED section. Headlight SW, brake, horn, and cooling fan. Nothing else from the ACC FED and IGN FED sections should be alive. Please confirm exactly what’s on and off in detail with the key in the off position.

    Answer 4:

    BATT FED:
    Headlights: power on. If I pull out the shaft 2 clicks, I get 12v at low beam wire. It also turns the gauge lights on if you pull out shaft to the 1st or 2nd click. Incidentally, I can't seem to get the headlight shaft to lock in the headlight switch. I may try to buy a new one. Paul, I think you've replaced yours before, right?
    Brake: power on. I tested right at the switch by the brake pedal and got power
    Horn: power on. The horn is loud in the garage with the door's closed!
    Cooling Fan: Hmmm... I don't have power in the wire down by the fan but I think i shouldn't unless the fan is being told to turn on. So do i test this on the little loop on the fuse box? Picture below. Or is there a better place to test this?



    Here's where things start to go awry... Lots of power all over the place when it shouldn't be there...

    ACC FED:
    Gauges: odometer lights up on speedometer. Other gauges not lit if headlights off. Gauges light up when you turn on the headlights (except for volt gauge... geez, i can't even have my problems be consistent...).
    Wiper: power on.
    Heater: power on.

    IGN FED:
    Fuel pump: power on for 1-2 seconds when i connect the battery and then quiet
    EFI: where do i test this one? Sorry i'm not sure...
    Choke: power on.
    Turn Signal: power on when you turn the turn signal on

    Sorry I couldn't answer all these questions yet. But it definitely sounds like we've somehow hooked things up such that we have power to almost everything even when the key is in the OFF position...

    Thank you very much for your help and suggestions! Have a great week, everyone.

  15. #372
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Ok. Good thorough responses and pictures are always helpful. So here are my conclusions based on what you checked:

    - Fuel pump appears to be wired correctly and is being controlled by the Coyote PCM. That's the reason it's running only briefly when power is first applied, shuts off, and then of course has to be running once you start the engine. Which you've accomplished. Also tells me the Coyote Ignition Relay Trigger (Coyote pigtail light green) and Starter Motor Request (Coyote pigtail light blue) are properly getting their +12V from the RF harness, or none of that would be working. So nothing else to do there IMO.

    - Alternator appears to be wired correctly, and that brown alternator wire isn't causing any issues. Personally, I'd remove it. Or at least do something different than electrical tape, which I am not a fan of.

    - Based on all your testing, it appears that all the ACC FED and IGN FED circuits are active, even with the ignition key off. Not just individual circuits which might mean a crossed wire somewhere perhaps. In theory, the only way for that to happen, unless something is wrong with your wiring harness or panel (which I doubt for something this major) is for one or both of the BRN ACC FEED -> IGN SW and ORG-IGN FEED -> IGN SW to be getting unswitched battery +12V. There's simply no other way, again assuming the harness isn't defective in some way, for the voltage to be getting to those parts of the panel except through those wires. If you study the wiring diagram closely, you can see those are the only wires bringing +12V into the panel.

    - A defective ignition switch is a possibility, which you linked to in another thread in an earlier post. But you've tried a generic ignition switch. Assuming it has the same electrical characteristics, and you hooked the wires to it properly, it did not confirm a defective switch. Other than the continuity between ACC and IGN in the off position which the FF switch has and your generic switch does not. That would perhaps explain how +12V is getting to both ACC and IGN with the key off. But doesn't explain how one or the other has it in the first place. Wouldn't seem necessary, but getting another FF ignition switch might be an option. FF is showing them in stock. I have a spare one I'd sell, but you could probably get it quicker from Factory Five since they're close.

    - I'm assuming, based on everything you've described, that when you did your first starts, the only way you were able to stop the running engine was to switch off the master disconnect. That would be consistent with everything you've said. If it stops when the key is turned off, my head will explode.

    So, to be honest, I'm running out of ideas. At this point, I have only two suggestions:

    1. In an earlier post (#321, https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post379058) you described and illustrated some wonky wiring that a bunch of follow-up posts described how to do differently. Has all that been removed? Because you said you installed a master disconnect, you should only have the following:
    - One side of master disconnect: (1) Main power cable from battery and (2) cable to the front post of the PDB through the supplied 250 amp megafuse. Nothing more.
    - Other side of master disconnect: (1) Power cable to the large post on the starter solenoid and (2) three wires from the RF harness: RED-BATTERY FEED, RED-ALTERNATOR FD, RED-IGN SW -> SOL. Nothing more.
    - Starter solenoid: (1) Power cable on the large post from the master disconnect mentioned previously and (2) starter wire from the Coyote harness on the small post. Nothing more.
    Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Any other wires other than those listed, especially anything you may have added yourself, could potentially cause +12V to be fed unintentionally and must be removed.

    2. I think I mentioned this before, but don't recall a specific answer. To troubleshoot further, I would selectively remove wires from the ignition switch one at a time and confirm it does what's expected. In all cases, test with the master disconnect switch on and the ignition switch off. These tests are assuming the ignition switch itself is not defective.
    - With the two red BAT wires disconnected (RED HDLT SW 1 FEED and RED-IGN SW -> SOL) everything RF related should be dead. No BATT FED, ACC FED, or IGN FED circuits should be active. Check them all. If any have voltage with those two wires disconnected, then voltage is coming from another source which is a problem.
    - With the ACC wire disconnected (BRN-ACC FEED -> IGN SW), and the red BAT wires back on, there should be no power to any ACC FED or IGN FED circuits.
    - With the IGN wire disconnected (ORG-IGN FEED -> IGN SW), and all the other wires back on, there also should be no power to any ACC FED or IGN FED circuits.

    That's all I can think of at the moment. It seems voltage is coming from somewhere not expected, and these two points are to help chase it down. Oh and for the easy one, yes I have replaced headlight switches before. I use a genuine branded ACDelco D1588 switch. It's the exact connector and form factor as the kit supplied generic switch, and IMO better quality. Less than $20 on Amazon. Doesn't come with the nut or knob and shaft. But you can use the ones you have. Just make sure to get the actual ACDelco branded one.
    Last edited by edwardb; 11-04-2019 at 06:31 AM.
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    Thank you, Paul! We really appreciate your advice. There are lots of good things you mentioned for us to work on this weekend but this evening we couldn't resist so we put off some other non-car things that needed doing and headed out to the garage to check out a couple things and here's a quick report:

    - Good news in that your head does not need to explode the engine continues to run even when you turn the ignition switch to off. Interestingly, you can shut off the engine by turning the key to ACC, and that's what we've been doing. Then we turn the key to off and pull out the key.

    - We did some quick tests tonight with the 2 red BAT wires disconnected from the ignition and the battery hooked up - where everything RF related should be dead. However, even with the 2 red BAT wires disconnected, we get power to the BAT FED (parking lights, brake sensor, horn all had power), ACC FED (wiper, radio, heater all had power), and IGN FED (Choke and turn signal had power). So we are getting power to everything even with power not going to the ignition swift via the 2 red BAT wires. Hmmmm...

    We will perform the rest of your tests this weekend and get back to you with our results. I'm going to walk through all the wiring and note anyplace where i think we could be getting power in there. I think we're narrowing in on it - thank you very much for all of your help!!! We owe you quite a few rides in the car once we are done!

  17. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post

    Cooling Fan: Hmmm... I don't have power in the wire down by the fan but I think i shouldn't unless the fan is being told to turn on. So do i test this on the little loop on the fuse box? Picture below. Or is there a better place to test this?
    There should be +12v at the fan power wire when the relay is triggered. The fan relay is triggered by the fan control (green thermo control wire), which is the ground that completes the circuit to engage the relay. There are two locations in the harness where you'll find the green thermo control wire; one in the bundle of sensor wires at the top of the engine and one at the fan wiring plug under the radiator. Make sure your fan is wired with the blue (+12v) and black (ground) wires. If these are connected correctly, touching either of the green wires to a chassis ground will turn on the fan. I'll let those familiar with the Coyote wiring chime in if there are other ways to let the Coyote PCM control the fan, but on my Holley EFI, I connected the EFI fan control wire (-) to the green thermo control wire.
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  19. #375
    Papa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    Thank you, Paul! We really appreciate your advice. There are lots of good things you mentioned for us to work on this weekend but this evening we couldn't resist so we put off some other non-car things that needed doing and headed out to the garage to check out a couple things and here's a quick report:

    - Good news in that your head does not need to explode the engine continues to run even when you turn the ignition switch to off. Interestingly, you can shut off the engine by turning the key to ACC, and that's what we've been doing. Then we turn the key to off and pull out the key.

    - We did some quick tests tonight with the 2 red BAT wires disconnected from the ignition and the battery hooked up - where everything RF related should be dead. However, even with the 2 red BAT wires disconnected, we get power to the BAT FED (parking lights, brake sensor, horn all had power), ACC FED (wiper, radio, heater all had power), and IGN FED (Choke and turn signal had power). So we are getting power to everything even with power not going to the ignition swift via the 2 red BAT wires. Hmmmm...

    We will perform the rest of your tests this weekend and get back to you with our results. I'm going to walk through all the wiring and note anyplace where i think we could be getting power in there. I think we're narrowing in on it - thank you very much for all of your help!!! We owe you quite a few rides in the car once we are done!
    Now you're going to make my head explode! Start at the battery and trace anything that touches the battery + wire. Are you tying multiple things together where the battery wire terminates? Is that on your cutoff switch, at the starter, some other post or block? Check for any other wires close to the battery connections to make sure nothing is making contact that shouldn't be.
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  21. #376
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    Thank you, Paul! We really appreciate your advice. There are lots of good things you mentioned for us to work on this weekend but this evening we couldn't resist so we put off some other non-car things that needed doing and headed out to the garage to check out a couple things and here's a quick report:

    - Good news in that your head does not need to explode the engine continues to run even when you turn the ignition switch to off. Interestingly, you can shut off the engine by turning the key to ACC, and that's what we've been doing. Then we turn the key to off and pull out the key.

    - We did some quick tests tonight with the 2 red BAT wires disconnected from the ignition and the battery hooked up - where everything RF related should be dead. However, even with the 2 red BAT wires disconnected, we get power to the BAT FED (parking lights, brake sensor, horn all had power), ACC FED (wiper, radio, heater all had power), and IGN FED (Choke and turn signal had power). So we are getting power to everything even with power not going to the ignition swift via the 2 red BAT wires.
    With the two red BAT wires disconnected from the ignition switch, you would still have power to the BATT FED section of the panel since it gets a direct feed from elsewhere. But definitely not for the other two. Your descriptions appear to confirm there is unwanted +12V from somewhere else. Maybe on the ACC side somewhere. Back to that brown ACC/Alternator wire. But based on your review and pics seems to be out of the circuit. Will stay tuned for the rest of your tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    There should be +12v at the fan power wire when the relay is triggered. The fan relay is triggered by the fan control (green thermo control wire), which is the ground that completes the circuit to engage the relay. There are two locations in the harness where you'll find the green thermo control wire; one in the bundle of sensor wires at the top of the engine and one at the fan wiring plug under the radiator. Make sure your fan is wired with the blue (+12v) and black (ground) wires. If these are connected correctly, touching either of the green wires to a chassis ground will turn on the fan. I'll let those familiar with the Coyote wiring chime in if there are other ways to let the Coyote PCM control the fan, but on my Holley EFI, I connected the EFI fan control wire (-) to the green thermo control wire.
    For a "pure" Coyote installation like this one, the RF fan wiring, relay, green thermo control wire, etc. aren't used. The Coyote control pack has the +12V wire for the fan. Ground the other side and the Coyote PCM takes it from there. The only way to test it is to observe it's powered on when the engine reaches the appropriate temp. In this case, whatever is going on is in the RF side, and since the engine runs the Coyote system is getting power and it's safe to assume the fan will run when called for.
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  23. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Now you're going to make my head explode! Start at the battery and trace anything that touches the battery + wire. Are you tying multiple things together where the battery wire terminates? Is that on your cutoff switch, at the starter, some other post or block? Check for any other wires close to the battery connections to make sure nothing is making contact that shouldn't be.
    Thanks, Dave! Some good news - i think the fan is working the way Paul mentioned it should. On our little go-cart excursion and other times where we've run the engine for a while, the fan has kicked on after a few minutes. Thanks for your suggestion on following the battery + wire and seeing where this is making a connection... we will do that. With you guys' help, we will track it down!

    Thanks!

  24. #378

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    With the two red BAT wires disconnected from the ignition switch, you would still have power to the BATT FED section of the panel since it gets a direct feed from elsewhere. But definitely not for the other two. Your descriptions appear to confirm there is unwanted +12V from somewhere else. Maybe on the ACC side somewhere. Back to that brown ACC/Alternator wire. But based on your review and pics seems to be out of the circuit. Will stay tuned for the rest of your tests.
    Thanks, Paul! Got it. I was thinking that nothing RF related should have power if the 2 red BAT wires were disconnected from the ignition switch, but thank you for clarifying that the BAT FED items should have power. So at least that part is ok! We'll get back with the full set of results this weekend.

    Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder why the engine does not shut off when the ignition is in OFF but the engine does shut off when the ignition is moved to ACC...

  25. #379
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder why the engine does not shut off when the ignition is in OFF but the engine does shut off when the ignition is moved to ACC...
    Once your Coyote is running, it's completely self-contained based on the battery power to the PDB plus the +12V signal to the Coyote pigtail ignition sense wire telling the PCM to "stay running." I'm assuming you have that pigtail connected to the RF EFI wire, which is what the FF instructions say to use and is and pretty typical. That's an IGN FED circuit. You mentioned before about the continuity between the IGN and ACC terminals on the FF ignition switch when it's off. Which I confirmed. So if the ACC circuit is somehow getting voltage from somewhere besides the ignition switch, turning the key to off would still give the IGN terminal power and the engine keep running. At the ACC position, the only continuity is between the BAT and ACC terminals. IGN terminal gets nothing from the BAT terminal, and apparently isn't from anywhere else either. So the engine shuts off. That's my logic for suspecting the ACC circuit is the prime suspect. Confusing enough??
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  27. #380

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Once your Coyote is running, it's completely self-contained based on the battery power to the PDB plus the +12V signal to the Coyote pigtail ignition sense wire telling the PCM to "stay running." I'm assuming you have that pigtail connected to the RF EFI wire, which is what the FF instructions say to use and is and pretty typical. That's an IGN FED circuit. You mentioned before about the continuity between the IGN and ACC terminals on the FF ignition switch when it's off. Which I confirmed. So if the ACC circuit is somehow getting voltage from somewhere besides the ignition switch, turning the key to off would still give the IGN terminal power and the engine keep running. At the ACC position, the only continuity is between the BAT and ACC terminals. IGN terminal gets nothing from the BAT terminal, and apparently isn't from anywhere else either. So the engine shuts off. That's my logic for suspecting the ACC circuit is the prime suspect. Confusing enough??
    Ha! Yes, this whole thing is confusing enough... although, believe it or not, some of what you're saying makes some sense to me! And I think it's helpful in narrowing in on this problem. Thank you, Paul!

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    delay from a blown fuse...

    Just a quick update: Today we started running through the list of tests Paul laid out for us to try to isolate our issue regarding where we are getting power when we shouldn't be. During out testing, I think we must've touched our probe from our multimeter onto something while it was touching another wire and we blew a fuse... We looked for a spare but we didn't have any so we'll have to run to autozone this week and pick up some. Unfortunately, this delayed our planned tests. We will have the full set of test results hopefully next weekend. Thanks, guys! Hope you all have a good week!

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    a little progress

    Hi guys,
    So we got some new fuses and installed them as well as a new headlight switch and now we're back in business trying to test things out to figure out where we are getting power when we shouldn't be. Thank you to Paul for his detailed questions about how to isolate this issue. Here's what we've found so far. I think we've made some progress but still have a ways to go.

    Here's Paul's advice #1:
    1. In an earlier post (#321, https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post379058) you described and illustrated some wonky wiring that a bunch of follow-up posts described how to do differently. Has all that been removed? Because you said you installed a master disconnect, you should only have the following:
    - One side of master disconnect: (1) Main power cable from battery and (2) cable to the front post of the PDB through the supplied 250 amp megafuse. Nothing more.
    - Other side of master disconnect: (1) Power cable to the large post on the starter solenoid and (2) three wires from the RF harness: RED-BATTERY FEED, RED-ALTERNATOR FD, RED-IGN SW -> SOL. Nothing more.
    - Starter solenoid: (1) Power cable on the large post from the master disconnect mentioned previously and (2) starter wire from the Coyote harness on the small post. Nothing more.
    Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Any other wires other than those listed, especially anything you may have added yourself, could potentially cause +12V to be fed unintentionally and must be removed.

    Our answers
    Master disconnect: I think this is correct but let me describe what we've done as we certainly could have it wrong. Here's a picture of our master disconnect with the wires labelled:

    From what I can tell, this is the way it should be.

    Starter solenoid: Hmmm... I thought this was correct but it's possible this could be the source of the problem. I discuss this more below but this seems like a place where we could definitely be getting power into the harness earlier than we want. I'm confident we have the power cable on the solenoid but is the starter wire from the coyote harness the incorrect wire? It seems like the only substantial wire around from the harness but maybe this is wrong. Here's a couple pictures trying to show the situation:


    This one shows where the wire is coming out of the harness:


    On to Paul's Advice #2:
    2. I think I mentioned this before, but don't recall a specific answer. To troubleshoot further, I would selectively remove wires from the ignition switch one at a time and confirm it does what's expected. In all cases, test with the master disconnect switch on and the ignition switch off. These tests are assuming the ignition switch itself is not defective.
    - With the two red BAT wires disconnected (RED HDLT SW 1 FEED and RED-IGN SW -> SOL) everything RF related should be dead. No BATT FED, ACC FED, or IGN FED circuits should be active. Check them all. If any have voltage with those two wires disconnected, then voltage is coming from another source which is a problem.
    - With the ACC wire disconnected (BRN-ACC FEED -> IGN SW), and the red BAT wires back on, there should be no power to any ACC FED or IGN FED circuits.
    - With the IGN wire disconnected (ORG-IGN FEED -> IGN SW), and all the other wires back on, there also should be no power to any ACC FED or IGN FED circuits.

    Our answers
    This was a great idea to try to debug things by stepping through disconnecting these wires - I think we found something here. We added a few tests too and this led us to conclude something before we finished all the tests.

    -----
    Test 1: No wires connected to ignition and battery cutoff switch off.
    Expectation: that we have no power to anything
    Test results:
    BATT FED:
    Parking lights: no power
    Brake: no power
    Horn: no power

    ACC FED:
    Gauges: do not light up
    Radio: no power
    Wiper: no power
    Heater: no power

    IGN FED:
    Fuel pump: no sound
    Choke: no power
    Turn Signal: no power
    -----
    Ok - this is good news as we don't have any power and this is as we want. I had thought it was possible we might be getting some power even with the battery cutoff switch set to off due to the following connection at the fuse box on the passenger footbox.

    But fortunately, this wasn't a problem. So all good so far.

    -----
    Test 2: No wires connected to ignition and battery cutoff switch on.
    Expectation: power to the BATT FED items
    Test results:
    BATT FED:
    Parking lights: 12v
    Brake: 12v
    Horn: works

    ACC FED:
    Gauges: light up
    Radio: has power
    Wiper: has power
    Heater: has power

    IGN FED:
    Fuel pump: no sound
    Choke: no power
    Turn Signal: no power
    -----
    Ok - trouble here. I think we should have BATT FED power but not the ACC FED. And this is without anything even connected to the ignition switch. So the ACC power isn't coming through the ignition switch.

    -----
    Test 3: 2 red disconnected from BAT on ignition, but brown to ACC, 2 blue to ST, and orange to IGN still connected at ignition and battery cutoff switch on.
    Expectation: power to the BATT FED items
    Test results:
    BATT FED:
    Parking lights: 12v
    Brake (brake switch feed): 12v
    Horn: works

    ACC FED:
    Gauges: lit up
    Radio: has power
    Wiper: has power
    Heater: has power

    IGN FED:
    Fuel pump: on for 1-2 seconds and then quiet
    Choke: has power
    Turn Signal: 12V
    -----
    Ah - ok, so it seems that IGN is getting power thru the ignition switch via the connection to ACC.

    So, I think, as Paul suspected, the ACC network is the source of our trouble. If we can figure out and eliminate the extra source of power to ACC, then IGN will lose the power it's getting from ACC thru the ignition switch.

    We haven't done the final 2 tests from Paul yet but it seems that ACC is really the problem. We tried to trace through where it could be getting power and that let us to post the solenoid pictures above - could that be it? I checked the alternator again and i think that seems ok and I think it's not the source of the power.

    Any ideas guys? Thank you! Hope you're all having a good weekend.

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    Headlight issue

    When we were testing for power to try to solve our electrical issues, we blew a fuse that i mentioned before. We replaced the fuse and the car seems to be working as usual except for one thing. Previously, when we had done certain power tests at the headlight wires at the front of the chassis, we were getting power. However, now we don't get power to these headlight wires when doing the same tests and the headlight switch is on. We do get power to the parking lights, though. After doing some research, it sounds like the headlights don't use a fuse but rather a self resetting circuit breaker. But maybe it's not resetting? I'm not quite sure. Do you guys know what might be going on? Thank you!

  31. #384
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Observations/comments from your posts:

    - Master disconnect wiring looks OK.

    - Starter wiring looks OK. That starter wire you're questioning has to be the Coyote start wire. Otherwise you wouldn't be getting the starter motor function when you turn the key to start. Which you are.

    - Extra Coyote wires being questions: Can't identify everything. Yellow 12V Key On wire = don't need. White and white/blue twisted pair CAN Bus wires = don't need. Advise if there are others.

    - Based on your testing to date, agreed it seems ACC could be the issue. 12V should be going out onto the BRN-ACC-FEED wire sourced from the red battery wires when the ignition key is on and when the key is in the appropriate position. Measure voltage on the BRN-ACC-FEED wire with it disconnected from the ignition switch. Master disconnect on. Ignition switch position shouldn't matter. It shouldn't have voltage in any case when disconnected. If it does, that's maybe the source. At that point, the problem is either some type of defect in the harness itself. Or perhaps one of the ACC wires is connected to a battery source and backfeeding from the panel. In that case, I'd be checking the heater wire, wiper wire, gauge feed, and radio wires to make sure they're either not connected to anything or are connected properly. Maybe account for each one and report back if you have +12V on the BRN-ACC-FEED wire.

    - Yes, I believe the headlight switch has an internal circuit breaker. And I believe it should automatically reset if you tripped it. There's a diagram of the terminals on the headlight switch in the RF wiring manual. Refer to that and check if you have voltage going out to the headlights from there.

    Good luck.
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  32. #385

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Observations/comments from your posts:

    - Master disconnect wiring looks OK.

    - Starter wiring looks OK. That starter wire you're questioning has to be the Coyote start wire. Otherwise you wouldn't be getting the starter motor function when you turn the key to start. Which you are.

    - Extra Coyote wires being questions: Can't identify everything. Yellow 12V Key On wire = don't need. White and white/blue twisted pair CAN Bus wires = don't need. Advise if there are others.

    - Based on your testing to date, agreed it seems ACC could be the issue. 12V should be going out onto the BRN-ACC-FEED wire sourced from the red battery wires when the ignition key is on and when the key is in the appropriate position. Measure voltage on the BRN-ACC-FEED wire with it disconnected from the ignition switch. Master disconnect on. Ignition switch position shouldn't matter. It shouldn't have voltage in any case when disconnected. If it does, that's maybe the source. At that point, the problem is either some type of defect in the harness itself. Or perhaps one of the ACC wires is connected to a battery source and backfeeding from the panel. In that case, I'd be checking the heater wire, wiper wire, gauge feed, and radio wires to make sure they're either not connected to anything or are connected properly. Maybe account for each one and report back if you have +12V on the BRN-ACC-FEED wire.

    - Yes, I believe the headlight switch has an internal circuit breaker. And I believe it should automatically reset if you tripped it. There's a diagram of the terminals on the headlight switch in the RF wiring manual. Refer to that and check if you have voltage going out to the headlights from there.

    Good luck.
    Thanks, Paul! We'll get back to you tomorrow with the latest results!

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    more electrical tests

    Today we dug a little further on our electrical issues. Here are our answers to Paul's questions. Thank you VERY much, Paul! We could never do this without your help! And several others on the forum - thank you!

    Paul Question: Extra Coyote wires being questions: Can't identify everything. Yellow 12V Key On wire = don't need. White and white/blue twisted pair CAN Bus wires = don't need. Advise if there are others.

    Our Answer:
    There are 3 wires in there:
    White & blue CAN HS +
    White CAN HS –
    Yellow 12V Key On
    Just what you said. So it looks like we don’t need any of those so that’s ok.

    Paul Question: Based on your testing to date, agreed it seems ACC could be the issue. 12V should be going out onto the BRN-ACC-FEED wire sourced from the red battery wires when the ignition key is on and when the key is in the appropriate position. Measure voltage on the BRN-ACC-FEED wire with it disconnected from the ignition switch. Master disconnect on. Ignition switch position shouldn't matter. It shouldn't have voltage in any case when disconnected. If it does, that's maybe the source. At that point, the problem is either some type of defect in the harness itself. Or perhaps one of the ACC wires is connected to a battery source and backfeeding from the panel. In that case, I'd be checking the heater wire, wiper wire, gauge feed, and radio wires to make sure they're either not connected to anything or are connected properly. Maybe account for each one and report back if you have +12V on the BRN-ACC-FEED wire.

    Our Answer:
    Test for power: BRN-ACC-FEED when it is disconnected from ignition switch, no wires are connected to the ignition switch, and master disconnect is on
    Should: Not have power
    Result: BRN-ACC-FEED does have power, as we feared. So this is really the heart of our problem. Somehow the ACC is getting power when it should not be….

    So one possibility is that ACC is getting power through one of the heater, wiper, radio, or gauge feed. We checked each of those wires first to see if they have power in the above scenario. They all do:
    Heater: power on at the end of the heater wire
    Wiper: power on at the end of the wiper wire
    Radio: power on at the end of the radio wire
    Gauge Feed: power on at the fuse box

    So we then looked – are any of these wires connected to something that could be supplying the power? For the heater, wiper, and radio, we aren’t using any of those and they are just coiled up and sitting behind the dash. Here’s a picture of those (I apologize for the messy electrical tape...


    For the gauge feed, I’m not exactly sure where to look. We tested the gauge feed for power at the fuse box in the passenger footbox. Where should I look for the gauge feed wire?

    So that’s our situation… Somehow we have power getting to the ACC in some way beyond going through the ignition… We just can’t figure it out…


    Paul Question: Yes, I believe the headlight switch has an internal circuit breaker. And I believe it should automatically reset if you tripped it. There's a diagram of the terminals on the headlight switch in the RF wiring manual. Refer to that and check if you have voltage going out to the headlights from there.

    Our Answer:
    With the headlight switch powered and turned on such that the headlights should be on, we have no power out of high/low beam switch (#6 in the diagram). Not sure what we did here. Maybe we broke the circuit breaker somehow? Maybe we should get a new one...

    Overall Thoughts:
    It’s good we’re making progress in figuring out that the ACC system is the problem. But just can’t seem to figure out how it is getting power… On another note and in an effort to get something done that we knew we could accomplish, we installed the seat belts today. Those we could do and it felt good! ☺

    Have a great week, guys.

  34. #387
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Well, based on those results, agree you're onto something. That ACC wire on the ignition switch most definitely should not measure any voltage when disconnected from the ignition switch. I'm down to two suggestions.

    1. Since you have the heater, wiper, and radio wires not connected to anything and insulated, seems they're not the culprits. Only wire left is the gauge feed. Not going to try to guess what it might be, but perhaps something crossed in how you wired behind the dash, gauges, etc. I'd recommend this test: Unplug the three dash harness connectors. That should remove all power from the dash and leave the gauge feed wire ending in one of the connectors. Now check the BRN-ACC-FEED when it is disconnected from the ignition switch and master disconnect on. If it doesn't have power, that would suggest it's your dash wiring. If it still has power, see next point.

    2. Have no idea how, but if the BRN-ACC-FEED has +12V with no other ACC wires connected, then something is happening with the fuse panel or the harness. Some type of internal short, assembly error, or whatever. Time to call Ron Francis wiring and get their help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Well, based on those results, agree you're onto something. That ACC wire on the ignition switch most definitely should not measure any voltage when disconnected from the ignition switch. I'm down to two suggestions.

    1. Since you have the heater, wiper, and radio wires not connected to anything and insulated, seems they're not the culprits. Only wire left is the gauge feed. Not going to try to guess what it might be, but perhaps something crossed in how you wired behind the dash, gauges, etc. I'd recommend this test: Unplug the three dash harness connectors. That should remove all power from the dash and leave the gauge feed wire ending in one of the connectors. Now check the BRN-ACC-FEED when it is disconnected from the ignition switch and master disconnect on. If it doesn't have power, that would suggest it's your dash wiring. If it still has power, see next point.

    2. Have no idea how, but if the BRN-ACC-FEED has +12V with no other ACC wires connected, then something is happening with the fuse panel or the harness. Some type of internal short, assembly error, or whatever. Time to call Ron Francis wiring and get their help.
    Thank you, Paul! We will try this test out. Glad there's still hope! Thank you, again.

  36. #389

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Well, based on those results, agree you're onto something. That ACC wire on the ignition switch most definitely should not measure any voltage when disconnected from the ignition switch. I'm down to two suggestions.

    1. Since you have the heater, wiper, and radio wires not connected to anything and insulated, seems they're not the culprits. Only wire left is the gauge feed. Not going to try to guess what it might be, but perhaps something crossed in how you wired behind the dash, gauges, etc. I'd recommend this test: Unplug the three dash harness connectors. That should remove all power from the dash and leave the gauge feed wire ending in one of the connectors. Now check the BRN-ACC-FEED when it is disconnected from the ignition switch and master disconnect on. If it doesn't have power, that would suggest it's your dash wiring. If it still has power, see next point.
    Thanks for the suggestions, Paul! More progress here - So we unplugged the three dash harness connectors. When we now check the BRN-ACC-FEED for power when it's disconnected from the ignition switch and the master disconnect on, we get... no power! So this means we made a mistake in the dash wiring, right? And i guess the best thing to do would be to walk through each step in the instructions and see if we did things correctly, right? Thanks a lot!

  37. #390
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions, Paul! More progress here - So we unplugged the three dash harness connectors. When we now check the BRN-ACC-FEED for power when it's disconnected from the ignition switch and the master disconnect on, we get... no power! So this means we made a mistake in the dash wiring, right? And i guess the best thing to do would be to walk through each step in the instructions and see if we did things correctly, right? Thanks a lot!
    So that seems to confirm the unwanted +12V showing up on your BRN-ACC-FEED is coming from the brown gauge feed wire originating somewhere in your dash wiring. Yes, you need to look there. But you can narrow the search a little. At least to start. Since the +12V exists with the ignition key off and the headlight switch off, that would suggest only needing to check certain dash circuits that are battery feed circuits, e.g. always on. Looking at the RF wiring diagram, there are only a few on your dash: (1) Red radio memory wire, (2) Dk green horn wire, (3) Pink hazard flasher wire. Start with those. If not connected to anything, make sure the end is properly insulated and not touching anything. If connected to something, disconnect one at a time at test. With your three dash harnesses plugged back together, and the master disconnect on, check the not connected BRN-ACC-FEED for power. If disconnecting one of those wires stops the +12V on the BRN-ACC-FEED wire, that's the likely offender. Can dig deeper if it's one of those. If not one of those, then will need to start going through all the dash wiring. There's also the possibility, although maybe slim, that one of those dash connectors is wired incorrectly. In other words, a pin (or pins) in the wrong location, and the combination just happens to provide this error situation. That's obviously an RF issue, and has happened before although not on the dash harness as I recall.

    BTW, the brown gauge feed being hot with the key off, and in turn backfeeding +12V into the BRN-ACC-FEED wire, likely explains why your gauges are always powered on including the display window in the speedo. Also is consistent with my theory on how the ignition key off didn't shut off your engine. The puzzle pieces are starting to fit together. But still more digging to find the source.
    Last edited by edwardb; 11-18-2019 at 11:09 PM.
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  39. #391

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    So that seems to confirm the unwanted +12V showing up on your BRN-ACC-FEED is coming from the brown gauge feed wire originating somewhere in your dash wiring. Yes, you need to look there. But you can narrow the search a little. At least to start. Since the +12V exists with the ignition key off and the headlight switch off, that would suggest only needing to check certain dash circuits that are battery feed circuits, e.g. always on. Looking at the RF wiring diagram, there are only a few on your dash: (1) Red radio memory wire, (2) Dk green horn wire, (3) Pink hazard flasher wire. Start with those. If not connected to anything, make sure the end is properly insulated and not touching anything. If connected to something, disconnect one at a time at test. With your three dash harnesses plugged back together, and the master disconnect on, check the not connected BRN-ACC-FEED for power. If disconnecting one of those wires stops the +12V on the BRN-ACC-FEED wire, that's the likely offender. Can dig deeper if it's one of those. If not one of those, then will need to start going through all the dash wiring. There's also the possibility, although maybe slim, that one of those dash connectors is wired incorrectly. In other words, a pin (or pins) in the wrong location, and the combination just happens to provide this error situation. That's obviously an RF issue, and has happened before although not on the dash harness as I recall.

    BTW, the brown gauge feed being hot with the key off, and in turn backfeeding +12V into the BRN-ACC-FEED wire, likely explains why your gauges are always powered on including the display window in the speedo. Also is consistent with my theory on how the ignition key off didn't shut off your engine. The puzzle pieces are starting to fit together. But still more digging to find the source.
    Thank you, Paul - this is great news. Thank you very much for the continued pointers on where to look and how to narrow in on this. Can't wait for the weekend to dig further!

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    Good news on debugging the electrical issues! :)

    First of all, thank you again, Paul, for all of your patient help and guidance! I think we made a bit of a breakthrough over here given your advice! Ok, here’s were we are. First thing we did was plug back in the 3 connections from the dash harness such that the dash harness is now re-connected to the main chassis harness. Then we just double checked that we could replicate our problem which was that our BRN-ACC-FEED wire gets power even when disconnected from the ignition switch. We were able to replicate this problem.

    Then, per Paul’s suggestion, we looked at checking what happens if we, one by one, disconnect each of the wires that are BATT fed and also go into the dash. So the question is whether we still get power to the BRN-ACC-FEED wire that is disconnected from the ignition switch when each of these batt fed wires is disconnected.

    1) Pink hazard flasher wire: when disconnected from the hazard switch on the dash, we still have power at the BRN-ACC-FEED. So it doesn’t seem that the power is coming through the pink hazard flasher wire.

    2) Red radio memory/speedo wire: Whoa! This looks like it could be it! We saw that a red wire was connected to a brown gauge feed wire. What red wire was this? It should have been a red wire from the daisy chain across the gauges but instead it was the red radio mem/speedo wire. Mistake #856 on our part… We are idiots...☺

    So, when we disconnected the red and brown wire, the BRN-ACC-FEED at the ignition switch no longer has 12V! Yahoo! Other good news - when we disconnect this one, our odometer light does not go on.

    So now we reconnected all the wires that go to our ignition switch and checked the following scenarios for power:

    Ignition switch in Off
    BATT FED: Has power at ignition switch
    ACC FED: No power at ignition switch
    IGN FED: No power at ignition switch
    So that’s good!

    Ignition switch in Acc
    BATT FED: Has power at ignition switch
    ACC FED: Has power at ignition switch
    IGN FED: No power at ignition switch
    This looks good too!

    Ignition switch in On:
    BATT FED: Has power at ignition switch
    ACC FED: Has power at ignition switch
    IGN FED: Has power at ignition switch
    Good news! Thank you, Paul – you really guided us to find that problem. I think it is finally solved thanks to your help! ☺

    One other piece of good news with this: Now our headlight wires at the front of the chassis are getting power when they should which had been a problem before.

    Given this progress, we now remounted the headlight switch and the ignition switch in the dash as well as cleaned up some odds and ends (like the blinker switch going to the wrong side). We also adjusted the clutch cable a bit – the cable had a little play and you had to depress the clutch pedal quite a bit to get any disengagement of the clutch.

    So this is great and morale is high amongst the team. We had thought we might not figure this one out!

    Next steps for us: There are a few things we still need to do before we move on to the body.
    - Volt gauge: the light on this gauge doesn’t come on when the others do. I’m hoping it’s just burnt out so we’ll get a new bulb and pop it in.
    - Install a tach adapter to help the tach be more accurate. I’ll have to read up on how to do this one…
    - Learn a little more about gauge calibration. Not just the speedometer, but the odometer too as it just keeps going up, even when the car is just standing still.
    - Brake test: I’d like to test the brakes a little bit when we’re going more than the 5-10 mph we’ve done so far.

    Then I think we button down the aluminum panels outside the driver footbox and move onto working the body! Thank you, Paul and the forum family!

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  42. #393
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    Congratulations on finding the issue. Sometimes we are just too close to the problem and getting another perspective is what it takes to solve the issue. I had a related issue with mine and found I'd connected the wrong brown wire to the ignition switch. I was certain I'd done it all correctly, and didn't discover my error until I unwrapped the tape I'd put on the ignition switch to replace it.
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  44. #394
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Great news! So glad you found it. That voltage had to be coming from somewhere.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
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  46. #395

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Great news! So glad you found it. That voltage had to be coming from somewhere.
    We never would have figured it out without your help - thank you very much, Paul!

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  48. #396
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    Car in the living room, I love that, my wife would absolutely kill me.

  49. #397
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Good work Pete and Paul! I made a similar mistake. I think I worked too late one evening and connected battery power to the HATB wire. Weird things happen when you do that and it took a while to figure it out. Everything was powered in ACC position and master switch turned off. It even attempted to start like this when I turned the key to start, which thankfully blew a fuse. Perseverance! You’re getting there.
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

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  51. #398

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    tying up some loose ends before moving on the body

    This weekend we got out and did a little go carting with the 2 pronged goal of 1) checking to see if our gauges were working and 2) seeing how the brakes seemed. We can really only go up and down our little street which is maybe a tenth of a mile long and has speed bumps so it's not the best go carting situation... but we could still get a feel for these items.

    1. Gauges: So I think the gauges are working pretty well. We are using the autometer gauges, by the way. Of the 7 gauges, it looks like all the following had reasonable read outs after running and driving the car for about 15 minutes.
    - oil pressure
    - oil temp
    - fuel level
    - water temp
    - volt meter
    The 2 remaining ones that aren't working yet are the speedometer (which i need to calibrate over a 2 mile drive so we don't expect this to be working yet) and the tach. We've purchased an autometer tach adapter 9117 which we need to hook up and that will fix the tach, I think. I have to research a little about how to install this though. There are 4 wires:
    - a red wire which i think i attach to a haat wire
    - a black wire which I ground
    - a gray wire which I think I attach to the tach gauge
    - a red/green which says to attach to the coil positive wire. I'm not exactly sure where that is... Is it the purple wire from the harness that goes into each cylinder?
    I'll dig a little more and post some pictures of what i'm talking about as what i've said here is a little vague - sorry!

    2. Testing brakes. The brakes work which is good . And when we're driving along at 15 or so mph, if i hit them hard, we lock up the wheels which is good. I'm not sure if it's just because the tires are a little slick since they are brand new and they slide a ways on the road after I lock them but it definitely feels like the car doesn't stop as quickly as a regular car. Will do some more testing.

    I'm leaking a little oil from a couple spots but after tightening things up, all that is gone except for 1 leak by the oil temp sensor. I'll try cranking that one down a little more and hopefully that'll stop the leak.

    Oh, also talked to Jeff Kleiner on the phone - excited to have him paint the car down the road!

    Hope you all are enjoying the holidays!

  52. #399
    Senior Member D02G's Avatar
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    Hi Pete,

    Are you going to put the body on and go through the CT inspection process before sending to Jeff for paint? I thinking of going that route.

    Brian

  53. #400
    Senior Member chmhasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D02G View Post
    Hi Pete,

    Are you going to put the body on and go through the CT inspection process before sending to Jeff for paint? I thinking of going that route.

    Brian
    I did that and a few people have done that in CT. I went through the inspection process last September with gel-coat. In about 2 years I will send my car out for paint. I wanted the ability to run the car for a few years and shake it out without worrying about the paint. 2 weeks after the inspection I had to pull the motor for a rear main seal leak. I am also going to replace the rear lid with FFrs new rear lid so I don't have to do the Licence plate mod. not a big problem since I don't have paint yet.

    Hope this helps



    Gary

    Oh picture of my car https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...019-POM-WINNER!
    Last edited by chmhasy; 12-10-2019 at 08:27 AM.

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