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Thread: Meindl Mk IV Build

  1. #281
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    battery hook up question

    Sorry for all of these questions this weekend... thank you for all the help! So, we're working on hooking up the battery to the wiring harness fuse panel that the fitment manual says to install on the top of the passenger footbox. Our understanding is that we connect the battery to the large inline fuse and then run a cable (which I think doesn't come with the kit) from the other side of the inline fuse to the fuse panel. This makes sense. The question we have is what do we do with that cable is already running from the wiring harness to the fuse panel (it came this way as shown in the picture below and is highlighted by the red arrow)

    Do we remove this cable? Or keep it connected? It kind of looks like a ground - do we ground it?

    Thank you very much, guys!


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  3. #282
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    horn install

    This weekend we hooked up the horn to the car. Things seemed to go pretty smoothly - here are a couple pics:





    We still aren't sure what to do about the issue mentioned in the battery hook up post above. We have a couple other issues we ran into that I'll post about shortly. Thank you for all of your help!

  4. #283
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    hmmm... not sure what these wires are...

    Hi guys,
    We're thinking that we may be getting somewhat close to the end of the electrical work but we still have some roadblocks. One is we have a few wires we're not sure what to do with. Below is a picture of 2 (pointed out by the green and red arrows) wires that come from the harness but we're not sure where they go. Are they grounds? When we received our harness, the one with the green arrow was connected to the box where the battery input comes in. But I'm not sure if it should stay there as it sort of seems like it's a ground. Any thoughts on these two wires? Thank you very much!


  5. #284
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Ford Performance has made some running changes to the Gen 2 Coyote control pack harness, and those are different from the early version I had. Two suggestions: (1) Have you called the Ford Performance help desk? The guys there are usually helpful, at least with straightforward questions like these. There's one especially that's good with electrical questions. While you're at it, suggest they update the instructions to keep up with their changes. (2) While not definitive, have you tried a continuity test? Reasonably good chance IMO the wire that was on the front terminal of the PDB is supposed to be there, e.g. it's a +12 volt power lead. It should have continuity to main power lead, as opposed to ground. Same for the other wire. Good chance it's a ground wire, and should have continuity to the Coyote harness ground.
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  7. #285
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    oil and water sensors

    We are hooking up our water temp and oil temp & pressure sensors and aren't quite sure what to do. Below is a picture from the ffr manual showing how things should hook up.


    And here is a picture of our sensors in our engine.


    A couple questions:
    - we only have one output on our oil sensor it looks like while in the manual there are two. And i think this sensor is meant to deliver both oil pressure and temp (and there's a wire for each of these on the harness). Should there be another terminal on the oil sensor? Or, more likely, I imagine i am misunderstanding how to hook this up....
    - My harness just ends in wires without that cap that attaches to the water temp sensor in the picture above from the manual. Do i need to get some sort of cap? Or can i just connect the wire directly to the sensor? Sort of like they do in the manual picture of the oil sensor.

    Thank you, guys! Hope everyone's enjoying the summer.

  8. #286
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    You have Autometer gauges. Seen in an earlier post. Those pictures are Speedhut gauges, which have 2-wire sending units. Hook up per your Autometer instructions, not the pictures in the FFR manual.
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  10. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Ford Performance has made some running changes to the Gen 2 Coyote control pack harness, and those are different from the early version I had. Two suggestions: (1) Have you called the Ford Performance help desk? The guys there are usually helpful, at least with straightforward questions like these. There's one especially that's good with electrical questions. While you're at it, suggest they update the instructions to keep up with their changes. (2) While not definitive, have you tried a continuity test? Reasonably good chance IMO the wire that was on the front terminal of the PDB is supposed to be there, e.g. it's a +12 volt power lead. It should have continuity to main power lead, as opposed to ground. Same for the other wire. Good chance it's a ground wire, and should have continuity to the Coyote harness ground.
    Thanks, Paul! Good idea - we'll give Ford Perf a call.

  11. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    You have Autometer gauges. Seen in an earlier post. Those pictures are Speedhut gauges, which have 2-wire sending units. Hook up per your Autometer instructions, not the pictures in the FFR manual.
    Ahhh, got it. I didn't realize the sensors were different as well. Thank you very much!

  12. #289
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    installing the dash

    Hi guys, this weekend we got out and installed the dash. It all went pretty smoothly i think - I had worried that the screws going into the dash and then the frame along with the dash supports might not be enough to have the dash feel sturdy but it feels pretty solid which we're happy about. Now we've got to figure out a few of the remaining wires that we still haven't connected (i'm sure i'll have questions on these as i identify them...). After that, not too much more until we try (with the operative word being 'try') to fire up the engine for the first time! It's still a few weeks away, I'd say, but we're excited that it's close! Here are a couple pictures of the dash:





    Hope the everyone is hanging in there with all this heat much of the country is having!

  13. #290
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    oil temp sensor question

    Hi guys, we're finishing up a lot of loose ends these days. One thing we're trying to figure out is the oil temp sensor and where that goes. One note - we are using the autometer gauges and we have a coyote engine. Sorry this is a stupid question, but in terms of the oil temp sensor (this is it pictured below, right?) where do we install it? Do we replace the oil pan plug with this? Thank you for your help!


  14. #291
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    If you have the Moroso low profile pan on your Coyote, it has a bung on the side for sensors like that. Visible in this picture directly above the motor mount. No, you don't use the drain plug.

    Last edited by edwardb; 07-27-2019 at 09:32 PM.
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  15. #292
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    Great - thanks a lot, Paul! Yes, we do have the moroso low profile oil pan you showed. I see the bung on the side of our pan, same as in your picture. The bung is on the opposite side from where i'm running my wires to the oil pressure and water temp sensors. There's also a plug on the left side of the engine (the left side when it's upright) that is different from the bung above - would this be ok to use instead? Or should i only use the plug that's dark and located on the right side of the upright engine. Again, sorry for such an amateur question... Thank you so much!

  16. #293
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    Great - thanks a lot, Paul! Yes, we do have the moroso low profile oil pan you showed. I see the bung on the side of our pan, same as in your picture. The bung is on the opposite side from where i'm running my wires to the oil pressure and water temp sensors. There's also a plug on the left side of the engine (the left side when it's upright) that is different from the bung above - would this be ok to use instead? Or should i only use the plug that's dark and located on the right side of the upright engine. Again, sorry for such an amateur question... Thank you so much!
    The plug on the other side from what I pictured is for an oil level sensor. My early Gen 2 crate had it, but I believe Ford eliminated it from the engine sometime later and I've heard from several it wasn't active in the crate program. Anyway, yes you can use either side. Just has to be where the sensor is immersed in oil in the pan. Only issue is the left side (opposite from what I pictured, as you said) is as I recall a larger thread size so not sure how would work with your sensor. Some kind of adapter likely required.
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  17. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    The plug on the other side from what I pictured is for an oil level sensor. My early Gen 2 crate had it, but I believe Ford eliminated it from the engine sometime later and I've heard from several it wasn't active in the crate program. Anyway, yes you can use either side. Just has to be where the sensor is immersed in oil in the pan. Only issue is the left side (opposite from what I pictured, as you said) is as I recall a larger thread size so not sure how would work with your sensor. Some kind of adapter likely required.
    Perfect - thank you, Paul! That's really helpful. Hopefully we'll get this installed today.

    Then we'll be off to our next steps - we've got a handful of wires we need to sort out where they go and then i think we're close to finishing the wiring we need before thinking about our first attempted start!

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  19. #295
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    Steve

    Did you get a response from Ford Performance on the wires?

  20. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Mc View Post
    Steve

    Did you get a response from Ford Performance on the wires?
    I'm batching up a bunch of questions for them but i think the wire i was wondering about is actually a ground, according to page 5 of the Ford controls pack instructions. Still need to confirm that though... Let me know if you find anything out - thanks!
    Pete

  21. #297
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    steering wheel and roll bar

    Thank you again to Paul for all of his help with all my questions on sensors. I think today we got them all installed and I think things seem to be in good shape.

    We then turned to some very fun steps - we put on the steering wheel. It's great to turn the steering wheel and so those front wheels turn!


    and then the roll bar:

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    I see you re-drilled the factory shifter to have something to grip until you buy a new short shifter. I laughed out loud because it looks exactly like mine! My son's friends keep asking if it's a truck transmission because the shifter is so long. Haven't had time to source a short one yet.

    Joe
    Mk4 #8861 Complete kit. Delivered: 27 Apr 2016, Roller: 12 Jan 2018

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  24. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by initiator View Post
    I see you re-drilled the factory shifter to have something to grip until you buy a new short shifter. I laughed out loud because it looks exactly like mine! My son's friends keep asking if it's a truck transmission because the shifter is so long. Haven't had time to source a short one yet.

    Joe
    I'm actually curious why you have the shifter installed like that. Perhaps I missed the reason in your thread? When it is installed down/facing forward as designed, it is actually very comfortable and natural shifting it. IMO.

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  26. #300
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    The FFR build manual actually suggests doing it like that. I almost did it myself. If I remember right they say something like, they prefer the feel of the upright shifter. The nice thing is it can be used in either configuration now because it’s just an extra mount hole.
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  27. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by initiator View Post
    I see you re-drilled the factory shifter to have something to grip until you buy a new short shifter. I laughed out loud because it looks exactly like mine! My son's friends keep asking if it's a truck transmission because the shifter is so long. Haven't had time to source a short one yet.

    Joe
    Ha! Thanks, Joe. Yeah, it sure does look a little funny. Let me know if find a short shifter you like.

  28. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAsp427 View Post
    I'm actually curious why you have the shifter installed like that. Perhaps I missed the reason in your thread? When it is installed down/facing forward as designed, it is actually very comfortable and natural shifting it. IMO.
    Thanks, Carl. You know, you bring up a good point - once i get things go-karting, i'll try the forward leaning position and see how it feels. I was really just following the manual and didn't try out the other way. But glad to hear it feels natural shifting the way you've got it as i'm not sure it will with the way i have mine. Thanks!

  29. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by initiator View Post
    I see you re-drilled the factory shifter to have something to grip until you buy a new short shifter. I laughed out loud because it looks exactly like mine! My son's friends keep asking if it's a truck transmission because the shifter is so long. Haven't had time to source a short one yet.

    Joe
    By the way, drilling through that shifter was something else, wasn't it? That thing is tough.

  30. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    By the way, drilling through that shifter was something else, wasn't it? That thing is tough.
    I don't remember having too much trouble with it, but my memory isn't great. If it's stainless, maybe it got too hot and work-hardened - that can be a real bear. I do stainless with new/sharp drill bits, reduced RPM, and relatively high force.

    I expect a lot more difficulty drilling the roll bars.

    I'm using a mid-shift conversion, so the forward-angled shifter was too far forward. I installed this shifter upright just so I could move through the gears.
    Mk4 #8861 Complete kit. Delivered: 27 Apr 2016, Roller: 12 Jan 2018

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  32. #305
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    Final push before first attempt at a start!

    Hi guys,
    We're solving some of the last few items here before we attempt our first start. Enthusiasm is high! This weekend we filled the engine with oil and coolant, put the power steering fluid in, tried to align the tires with some string, figured out a couple of the still outstanding loose wires, and actually put the car on the ground for the first time. Here it is:



    I know this isn't an original thought but wow does it feel low after working on it for about a year up on jack stands! Feels great to sit in.

    I think we have 3 more questions before we try to start, all to do with wiring.
    1) On page 36 of the chassis harness manual, it talks about snipping a red wire for the fan relay control and connecting it to the computer fan power wire. Sorry if this is stupid but I'm not sure where the computer fan power wire is. Also, i'm not sure if we need to do this or if refers to a different setup. Here's a picture of the manual:


    2) We're using the autometer gauges and we have hooked them up. There are 2 wires that didn't seem to have a home labeled speed sensor. One gray and one green in this picture. I think we don't need those but i just wanted to check to see if this is the case.


    3) We have a red HAAT B wire that i think is for use if we have something like a clock that needs power all the time. If we don't, I think I can just cap this, right? Or do i need it somewhere? Here's a picture of it:


    Hope everyone is doing well. Thank you for all of your help, guys!

  33. #306
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    1. I've tried (really I have...) to understand the logic behind how those fan instructions are telling people to hook up the Coyote cooling fan. Your Coyote control pack has everything you need to power and control the fan. You don't need to do anything with the Ron Francis harness or panel. Check your Ford Performance instructions. On the main harness pages, item "O - Blunt Cut Cooling Fan Lead" should be routed directly to your cooling fan positive connection. Ground the other side and you're done. The Coyote PCM will determine when the fan needs to run (it runs alot BTW) and will power it on and off accordingly. Your Coyote control pack PDB has the cooling fan relay, fuse, etc. Not to confuse the issue (and don't read any further if this seems confusing ) if you were to take the Coyote fan wire and hook it to the RF wire as instructed, the Coyote PDB would be doing nothing more than switching a relay and the RF harness would power the fan. So now you would have two relays and two fuses in your fan circuit. Not necessary.

    2. Haven't done Autometer gauges so can't offer much there. Do you have a GPS speedo, and don't need the speed sensor signal? That's what those wires are for. They are coming from the speed sensor on your transmission, assuming you have it plugged in.

    3. That HAAT wire from your Coyote pigtail can be used for a clock or whatever (HAAT = Hot At All Times, which I assume you know) but if you're not going to use it, pull the fuse in the Coyote PDB and it will be a dead wire.
    Last edited by edwardb; 08-11-2019 at 06:10 PM.
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  35. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    1. I've tried (really I have...) to understand the logic behind how those fan instructions are telling people to hook up the Coyote cooling fan. Your Coyote control pack has everything you need to power and control the fan. You don't need to do anything with the Ron Francis harness or panel. Check your Ford Performance instructions. On the main harness pages, item "O - Blunt Cut Cooling Fan Lead" should be routed directly to your cooling fan positive connection. Ground the other side and you're done. The Coyote PCM will determine when the fan needs to run (it runs alot BTW) and will power it on and off accordingly. Your Coyote control pack PDB has the cooling fan relay, fuse, etc. Not to confuse the issue (and don't read any further if this seems confusing ) if you were to take the Coyote fan wire and hook it to the RF wire as instructed, the Coyote PDB would be doing nothing more than switching a relay and the RF harness would power the fan. So now you would have two relays and two fuses in your fan circuit. Not necessary.

    2. Haven't done Autometer gauges so can't offer much there. Do you have a GPS speedo, and don't need the speed sensor signal? That's what those wires are for. They are coming from the speed sensor on your transmission, assuming you have it plugged in.

    3. That HAAT wire from your Coyote pigtail can be used for a clock or whatever (HAAT = Hot At All Times, which I assume you know) but if you're not going to use it, pull the fuse in the Coyote PDB and it will be a dead wire.
    Thanks a lot, Paul! Very clear and helpful, as always. Happy to hear all is ok with those fan wires as that one was my biggest concern. I'll check on the autometer gauges and see what i need to do with those wires since i don't have gps.

    Thank you, again, for your help!

  36. #308
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    3. That HAAT wire from your Coyote pigtail can be used for a clock or whatever (HAAT = Hot At All Times, which I assume you know) but if you're not going to use it, pull the fuse in the Coyote PDB and it will be a dead wire.
    OK, hot off the press. That might be really bad advice. Literally since I typed that suggestion and now I've been troubleshooting why the MIL in my Coupe build wasn't working. After tracing wires, found the MIL is powered off one of the HAAT circuits, and as luck would have it, that HAAT fuse was blown. Not sure why and will continue to monitor. But bottom line, if you're not going to use the HAAT wire, cap it and tie it out of the way. I wouldn't recommend pulling the fuse. Might have some other unintended consequence. Granted, what I'm working on is a Gen 3 Coyote, and your Gen 2 might be different. But why chance it? Do it the easy way.
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  38. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    OK, hot off the press. That might be really bad advice. Literally since I typed that suggestion and now I've been troubleshooting why the MIL in my Coupe build wasn't working. After tracing wires, found the MIL is powered off one of the HAAT circuits, and as luck would have it, that HAAT fuse was blown. Not sure why and will continue to monitor. But bottom line, if you're not going to use the HAAT wire, cap it and tie it out of the way. I wouldn't recommend pulling the fuse. Might have some other unintended consequence. Granted, what I'm working on is a Gen 3 Coyote, and your Gen 2 might be different. But why chance it? Do it the easy way.
    Thanks for the follow up, Paul! I'll definitely keep the HAAT wire and just cap it off.

    Tonight we put the transmission fluid in as well as put in the battery. Also filled the tires with air... getting close.

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    battery hook up question

    Really stupid question here so I apologize about my ignorance... but I thought that the way you hook up a car battery is first connect the positive terminal and second connect the ground. But in the factory five manual, they seem to go ground first and then positive terminal. Here's a picture:



    Hmmmm... Am I wrong about this? Which terminal do you guys connect first? Thank you! And, again, sorry for these absolute beginner questions...

  40. #311
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    You are correct that you should usually connect the POS first. That way, while you are connecting the ground, if you were to accidentally hit your wrench to a ground while tightening it up, you will not short out the battery causing a large spark and burning something. If you have the ground all ready connected and are tightening up the positive and hit something that is ground, you have said spark and possible burning. Good catch... I guess FF is just trying to keep everyone on their toes....

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  41. Thanks PeteMeindl thanked for this post
  42. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by initiator View Post
    I expect a lot more difficulty drilling the roll bars.
    The roll bars weren't that hard to drill. I used a couple of progressively larger bits until I got to the needed diameter. I also recommend a lubricant. I use Tap Magic whenever drilling through thicker material.

    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post308153

    Good luck!
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  43. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAsp427 View Post
    You are correct that you should usually connect the POS first. That way, while you are connecting the ground, if you were to accidentally hit your wrench to a ground while tightening it up, you will not short out the battery causing a large spark and burning something. If you have the ground all ready connected and are tightening up the positive and hit something that is ground, you have said spark and possible burning. Good catch... I guess FF is just trying to keep everyone on their toes....
    Got it - thanks a lot, BadAsp! That's reassuring to hear. Hope you're doing well.

  44. #314
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    The same problem

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    Hi guys, we're finishing up a lot of loose ends these days. One thing we're trying to figure out is the oil temp sensor and where that goes. One note - we are using the autometer gauges and we have a coyote engine. Sorry this is a stupid question, but in terms of the oil temp sensor (this is it pictured below, right?) where do we install it? Do we replace the oil pan plug with this? Thank you for your help!

    Hi
    I have the same problem, I thought this zigo sensor is for cooling where the fan is but the hole is too small and doesn’t fit. I have no idea what use for cooling sensor and where use this one. Previously I’ve read that level sensor in oli pan is needn’t with coyote.

  45. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by randrall View Post
    Hi
    I have the same problem, I thought this zigo sensor is for cooling where the fan is but the hole is too small and doesn’t fit. I have no idea what use for cooling sensor and where use this one. Previously I’ve read that level sensor in oli pan is needn’t with coyote.
    Hi Randrall,
    Turns out that wasn't the oil temp sensor to use for the coyote, or at least it wasn't the oil temp sensor that i ended up using... So i still have that zirgo sensor and it doesn't have a home yet. Maybe it's an extra that could be for other engine types beyond the coyote? I don't really know at this point.

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