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Thread: EFI vs Carb - reliability difference?

  1. #1
    Senior Member FF33rod's Avatar
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    EFI vs Carb - reliability difference?

    Ready to have some fun building a 33 HR in a few months and going through the planning stages now. Making sure I know what I'm getting into

    Was researching different engine options and also checking out local suppliers vs FFR partners (e.g. Blueprint). The Canadian currency conversion plus shipping is a huge it in the pocket book.

    The question of EFI vs Carb came up with a local supplier. He claims that he sees reliability issues with aftermarket EFI and much prefers a carb - we're talking about EFI add-ons in place of a 4 barrel, like Holley Sniper. I tried to probe further and he basically mentioned that the systems seem to have electrical problems and computer problems. Since modern day autos have a ton of computers in them I would have thought that aftermarket systems would be fairly sorted too. Before getting his opinion I was thinking that an EFI system would be more reliable than a carb due to the computer adapting the system to changing conditions.


    I was wondering if you wise builders of this forum would chime in with your experiences. Don't want to spend an extra thousand or two on EFI and have continual problems.
    Thanks for your help


    Steve

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    I would run a throttle body fuel injection. Put the manifold on and build the fuel injection on it.
    I have not bought a fuel injection kit since the Holley Projection, but have read a lot of good things on the new computer controlled units. Other than a higher pressure pump, return fuel line, O2 sensors in the headers, the rest is almost plug and play. I am sure some of those running the kits will give you better reviews. At the worst you can revert back to carb, pretty easily.
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    It took me 1 1/2 hours to install my Holley Sniper. Set it up wth the little touch screen included and it starts at the flick of the key. Only have 120 miles on the car, but I’m very happy. Throttle response is instantaneous.
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    Senior Member brewha's Avatar
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    Both the Fitech 600 and the Holly Sniper are great EFI units. My Fitech cost about $900 and runs perfectly. What steered me away from normal carburetors is that they are not easy to setup correctly by the normal person and either can run to lean or too rich. You can get carbs to run good at an idle but what about higher revs. Most guys I know only set them at idle and check the plugs after a period of time.

    The Efi units all have data loggers so you can see how an engine ran for a period of time, while moving, and at different temps. I thought it would be hard to interpret the data but it’s not. In most cases the unit learns on its own by driving at temp and never needs adjustment. The only change I made was on a deceleration rating to better match a standard transmission to eliminate popping through the unit during shifting.

    I love the turn key starts...

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    I think you need to sort out reliability of components from drivability of the system.

    Since the carb is generally a purely simple mechanical system there are benefits. Most of the parts are easy to swap if there is a problem i.e. gaskets and other small parts and the balance generally don't fail within a normal vehicle lifetime. A Mechanical fuel pump is reliable and simple and all that is needed with a carb.

    EFI is loaded with electrical and electro-mechanical parts, some more complex and prone to failure than others and often specific to the individual systems. Then there are the electric support items like the computer/control unit, fuel pump and a boat load of wires and connectors. Please don't directly compare the aftermarket products to what's found in production cars. Conceptually close in theory but the R&D costs in a production EFI system will exceed all of Holly's and FFRs budgets.

    But then we get back to drivability, I'm a carb guy but I'll give the nod to EFI. But a well tuned carb can and does run really well. Now the "tuning" is the "rub" in the calculation. There are no self-tuning carbs but many, if properly selected, can run out-of-the-box. The EFI systems are getting very good, from what I hear, in the self-tune systems. After that to have a really well tuned system there will be external service work by a good technician, the carb will need the same. Carb tuning is "hands on", EFI tuning can be over the internet.

    From a performance standpoint it all depends on what you want. The carb may outperform EFI over a certain range of conditions, EFI is probably better over a wider range and will accommodate altitude and weather conditions better.

    I still think about EFI but for the system I'd consider it's just too much money for an undetermined gain.

    Jim

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    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    I grew up with carbs and made a living tuning them. I have a large assortment of change parts, the proper tools, and the knowledge to tune a carb. If you count all the change parts and tools necessary to properly tune a carb you'll find that the self learning EFI systems are a very attractive alternative and are much easier to set-up than a carb. Most folks look at first-cost and assume that a carb is less expensive. And if all you do is bolt it on out of the box and twist those little screws on the base until it will idle on it's own then yes, it may be cheaper. But I've never seen a carb that is perfectly tuned right out of the box so I know most people that run carbs just live with a less than ideal tune and call it good. EFI will adjust the mixture when density altitude changes -- carbs will not. EFI will start and idle on cold mornings -- carbs, well, are finicky so maybe or maybe not as long as you don't mat the gas pedal before the engine is warmed up. Unless you like to tinker I suggest you stay away from carbs and go with something more modern.

    But if you just want to experience the old school technology I suggest you get a 4150 style QFT carb the appropriate size and ALL the necessary change parts (shooters, accelerator cams, bleeders, emulsion jets, power valves, PVCR jets, and main jets to start) then cozy up to a good book on how to tune Holley Carbs. And don't forget the portable AFR meter -- plugs are much more difficult to read than most folks realize.

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    One more thing, you can run more cam with an EFI and still enjoy driving. Carbs rely on a good vacuum to idle well. As we all know, the hotter cams create less idle vacuum and require a higher idle speed and some knowledge to tune the carb. Not an issue with the EFI.
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    Everything has been summed up pretty well except for one detail:

    Who is the "go to" guy when it doesn't run / or do what you think it should?

    That's the person you need to identify + proceed from there.


    Either system can be very reliable, or a complete PITA - directly depending on both operator expectations and competency of installation / commissioning.


    If "you" are the go-to guy - you have to figure out what you're comfortable being the expert on...

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  14. #9

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post
    Everything has been summed up pretty well except for one detail:

    Who is the "go to" guy when it doesn't run / or do what you think it should?

    If "you" are the go-to guy - you have to figure out what you're comfortable being the expert on...
    Amen Mike 223, Amen!

    I'm running an Edelbrock AVS 800 & an HEI distributor because the set up is very simple to tune and because I am that: Go-To-Guy
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 07-21-2018 at 09:42 AM.

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    Senior Member FF33rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Railroad View Post
    One more thing, you can run more cam with an EFI and still enjoy driving. Carbs rely on a good vacuum to idle well. As we all know, the hotter cams create less idle vacuum and require a higher idle speed and some knowledge to tune the carb. Not an issue with the EFI.
    I thought the same thing but admit that after looking at some cam specs I'm confused because they seem to indicate the opposite. Looking through Comp Cams offerings (primarily looking at 347) I notice some cams are identified as "not for EFI" due to the signal not being strong enough.

    On a broader note, thanks to everyone that has replied so far - all good points and things to consider... the cool thing is I'm not hearing any reliability concerns with the electronics.

  16. #11
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    I went with the Fitech EFI on my 33, primarily because I do not have the experience and tools necessary to tune and tweak a carburetor appropriately, not having to deal with a choke and when I looked at the cost differential between a good Carb and the EFI solutions out there, I made the choice to go with the EFI. It did take a bit of research to get wired up correctly with the Ron Francis Harness, but wasn't too bad. And after the fuel system was primed the engine started right up. I have only go-carted and the throttle response and performance is great so far, though my sample size is pretty small.
    Ryan
    33 Hot Rod
    350 SBC with TKO 500, 3 link rear

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