Blasphemy?

**miller7448** · 07-31-2018, 08:42 AM

Don’t want to be accused of blasphemy, but, does anyone build an MK5 as a beater? What I mean is relatively unpolished fit and finish. I see many posts of beautifully finished projects and admire the effort and skill used on the finish. My son and I are building the car primarily as a joint project but secondarily because we both like to go fast and loud. Just starting the build so have plenty of time to decide on the body. Panel work will begin once the leaves fall in Wisconsin and at that point we will need to decide on quality of finish. Thanks

**Papa** · 07-31-2018, 08:58 AM

I think you'll find that you will get unilateral support for whatever YOUR vision is for your project. You may get some good natured ribbing, but in the end it's your car; build it the way you want.

**FlyingCobra** · 07-31-2018, 09:03 AM

This is more or less exactly what I'm doing. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a beater, but my kids and I are going to be building this for the experience of it. It will not be a show car, it won't be the fastest/best/most perfect, but I'd rather look at the imperfections and have it remind me of the time we spent building it.

So we're doing this as a "budget build." Not doing things as cheaply as they could be done and want a good result, but not going for a show car either. It'll be a car that'll be very streetable but something we can take to the track as well. Mostly I'm looking forward to dropping off my kids (one at a time, of course) at school and them being able to tell their friends "Dad and I build that." In the aviation world that's considered to be the pinnacle of building your own airplane, when you can build one with your kids. Some friends of mine were fortunate enough to be able to build planes with their dads. Maybe that'll be the next project for us.

I'd hope that all of us had mentors who taught us the ropes, whether it was a parent, relative, or a friend who took an interest in helping a kid learn about wrenching. My dad wasn't around, but there were a few men who took the time to mentor me and help me rebuild my first car, and some subsequent. To build something from scratch, all the better. I've been looking forward to doing this with my kids since before I had kids.

**GoDadGo** · 07-31-2018, 09:25 AM

For the record I expect to hold this title within this forum because I may NOT paint "The Dark Side Dart MK-4 Roadster!"

https://youtu.be/-nVDzIjSjh8

Add in my unconventional driveline might just yield me some Kobra-Kred-Krud; however, the car shown in the video owns the title, though NOT a Factory Five:

https://youtu.be/IV9WrEbjtN0

**WIS89** · 07-31-2018, 10:20 AM

I think your plan is perfect! I admire your goal of building the car with your kids, and I know they will look back and remember the time they spent in the garage with you long after you are gone!

I don't think perfection should be your goal regardless, and having a solid reliable driver, and a car where you won't be concerned over every small scratch will only enhance your enjoyment. As Dave (Papa) said, most of us here will support your desire to build your car your way. Some of us give Steve (GoDad) a hard time because he lost his mind over his drivetrain choice, but we support him nonetheless! ;-o)

Do what suits you and your planned use. Feel free to come here and ask for help, as there are countless folks who are smart, capable, talented, and always willing to help out folks when it is needed. Welcome to the club, and enjoy the time spent with your kids!! All the best!

Regards,

Steve

**AZPete** · 07-31-2018, 10:28 AM

A car built with your kids outshines them all.
I'm envious.

**GoDadGo** · 07-31-2018, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by AZPete

A car built with your kids outshines them all.
I'm envious.

Well Said AZ, Well Said!

**Gromit** · 07-31-2018, 11:13 AM

Do IT and Drive the snot out of it...
A co worker had a Harley sportster bought it new and put 10-15,000 miles a year on it for the First 2 years he owned it... Drove it in the Rain, Drove it in the winter. (except when it was actually snowing) it was not "pretty" but it was loved and ridden hard. I respected that bike as much or MORE than the show queens that are pushed off a trailer and the total seat time was someone walking it to show booth.

AS OP said. make it what you want it to be. all forms are welcome. Even Chevy powered. (Sorry Steve GoDadGo had to go there)
Chris AKA Gromit

**steno** · 07-31-2018, 11:50 AM

I drove my Mk3 for 9k with the hood, trunk, and doors held on with black duct tape. It looked great at night from 40 feet away! Not even a dash! Just a couple donor guages and a GPS taped to the cowl.
Still got plenty of honks and thumbs-up action. Enjoy it and finish it when you wish!

**Jeff Kleiner** · 07-31-2018, 12:46 PM

"Beater"? Oh heck yes, mine qualifies! I bet not many others get detailed with a jug of Simple Green and a Scotchbrite pad

I'm kinda' cutting my own throat (as well as my potential income) by saying this but I've had more than a few guys tell me that they'd be having more fun and fewer worries if they had done like I did. Before LCS this year Dave Smith called and said he wanted me to put my car in the FFR booth. I said "You don't want mine, it's been ridden hard and put away wet"...He replied "That's EXACTLY what I love about it!"

Cheers,
Jeff

**FlyingCobra** · 07-31-2018, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

I'm kinda' cutting my own throat (as well as my potential income) by saying this but I've had more than a few guys tell me that they'd be having more fun and fewer worries if they had done like I did.

That's part of why I've always taken the avenue that I have with vehicles - be something I'm not afraid of driving due to it getting dirty or scratched. I did that once with a car I had and really didn't enjoy the experience.

**Avalanche325** · 07-31-2018, 01:08 PM

I agree that you should build it the way you want it. I also agree that these, and even the originals, are meant to be driven. They are cars!!! I have seen a couple trailer queen FFRs and I personally don't get it.

I think a father / son project is an awesome thing. I would have loved to done something like this with my Dad. But, please don't teach your kids that it is OK to do sub standard work. There is too much of that going around already. Anything worth doing, is worth doing right. I think you should strive for a solidly built car with a very nice finish. Putting the extra effort in to get something right is where you actually learn something. If your situation allows, doing the body and paint yourself to a high standard will be your biggest point of pride in the entire build. I'm not saying that you should be shooting for Pebble Beach show winner. But take some pride in your project and let the miles on the road put patina on it.......with pride.

I also don't get rat rods either, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

**David Hodgkins** · 07-31-2018, 01:15 PM

I drove mine as a "rat rod" for years before I painted it!

No Carpet, a bare dash, gelcoat body, bare pipes:

TON'S O' FUN! & Tons of thumbs up!

**mike223** · 07-31-2018, 01:26 PM

+1 more for rat rod .

You wanna wipe it with a diaper and take pictures of it?

Or you wanna drive it? - better not sweat the paint chips / bugs / rain etc...

0:44

**q4stix** · 07-31-2018, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

"Beater"? Oh heck yes, mine qualifies! I bet not many others get detailed with a jug of Simple Green and a Scotchbrite pad

Jeff, what finish is that? That's pretty much how I want my Coupe to look!

**FlyingCobra** · 07-31-2018, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Avalanche325

I agree that you should build it the way you want it. I also agree that these, and even the originals, are meant to be driven. They are cars!!! I have seen a couple trailer queen FFRs and I personally don't get it.

I think a father / son project is an awesome thing. I would have loved to done something like this with my Dad. But, please don't teach your kids that it is OK to do sub standard work. There is too much of that going around already. Anything worth doing, is worth doing right. I think you should strive for a solidly built car with a very nice finish. Putting the extra effort in to get something right is where you actually learn something. If your situation allows, doing the body and paint yourself to a high standard will be your biggest point of pride in the entire build. I'm not saying that you should be shooting for Pebble Beach show winner. But take some pride in your project and let the miles on the road put patina on it.......with pride.

I also don't get rat rods either, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

I agree with you to a point, but there's also making sure that you keep things at a level that's reasonable for the experience and attention span of the kids. So long as they're trying their best, they'll get better with time. Praise the good stuff, help them get better, use it as a learning opportunity. Friends of mine who've pushed too hard usually result in pushing their kids in front of the TV with video games.

But, I like (some) rat rods.

**CraigS** · 07-31-2018, 02:13 PM

One of my local friends smoothed out the body joints, put a little paint on them, and waxed it. From 40 ft away the car looks great. I didn't even notice it hadn't been painted until I was within 15 ft.

**GoDadGo** · 07-31-2018, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by CraigS

One of my local friends smoothed out the body joints, put a little paint on them, and waxed it. From 40 ft away the car looks great. I didn't even notice it hadn't been painted until I was within 15 ft.

Heck, Maybe I'll Just Buff Mine!
What-Cha-Think?

https://youtu.be/IGYtX-3p7xk

For The Record:
This Has Been One Of The Best Threads Posted In A While!
Thanks Mr. Miller (Miller7448) For Starting It!

Steve

**Avalanche325** · 07-31-2018, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by FlyingCobra

I agree with you to a point, but there's also making sure that you keep things at a level that's reasonable for the experience and attention span of the kids. So long as they're trying their best, they'll get better with time. Praise the good stuff, help them get better, use it as a learning opportunity. Friends of mine who've pushed too hard usually result in pushing their kids in front of the TV with video games.

But, I like (some) rat rods.

I get it. What I really meant, was aim high. But, with a "the kids are doing it" expectation. Kids can do some amazingly high quality work with the proper guidance. If you aim low, they aim low, and they learn that aiming low is fine. Life will show them different the hard way.

Mine has a "show quality" (if I say so myself) self-done garage paint job.

DSCN2692.JPG

And I'm NOT afraid at all to drive the snot of it:
FIRM AUTO X MAR 18 (140 of 386).jpg

**FlyingCobra** · 07-31-2018, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Avalanche325

I get it. What I really meant, was aim high. But, with a "the kids are doing it" expectation. Kids can do some amazingly high quality work with the proper guidance. If you aim low, they aim low, and they learn that aiming low is fine. Life will show them different the hard way.

Mine has a "show quality" (if I say so myself) self-done garage paint job.

DSCN2692.JPG

And I'm NOT afraid at all to drive the snot of it:
FIRM AUTO X MAR 18 (140 of 386).jpg

In that case, we agree.

**Jeff Kleiner** · 07-31-2018, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by q4stix

Jeff, what finish is that?

PPG DP90 Epoxy sealer. Yes, I actually do scratch it up with Scotchbrite every couple/few years and yes it gets washed with Simple Green, dish soap, the shampoo they leave in the room at the Fairfield Inn, whatever is handy when the cleaning mood strikes me. The finish is only temporary---and has been since I put it on in 2007!

Jeff

**chmhasy** · 07-31-2018, 05:18 PM

build a challenge car
https://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/challenge-car/

**WarDamnEagle** · 07-31-2018, 06:11 PM

I love this topic. I am currently driving my roadster in gelcoat for the last 2 months, and have had so much fun driving it that I'm losing some of my motivation to work on it. I still have cleco fasteners holding the hood scoop and radiator aluminum on.
My car has a marine radio and speakers, and with all the pop up showers we get here in Alabama, I'm thinking very seriously about not installing my carpet set and having the inside Rhino Lined (I have been actively involved in the offloading community for years, and we always Rhino Line our jeep tubs and pull out the drain plugs in the floor and don't worry about leaving it outside in the rain or hosing it out)
Of course the term "Beater" hurts my ears, I like to call it a fun toy instead of a show car.

**jrcuz** · 07-31-2018, 06:25 PM

When I get mine on the road I plan to drive in gel coat for a couple of years at least. I will work on the parting lines though.
JR

**sbhunter** · 07-31-2018, 06:36 PM

I’m building mine with my kids. Loving every minute of it. I’m building it to drive, not show. I actually really like how Kleiner’s car looks.

**TexasAviator** · 07-31-2018, 07:46 PM

I stuck to a strict budget and while not an all out show car I was able to do a 475hp engine, rebuilt t5z trans, just a few donor parts such as axle and pedal box. Throw in 13" Cobra power brakes, Power steering, vintage air, custom deep dish offset wheels with 315mm tires, and many more options for about 23000 before paint. I have a car that comps with high end builds but I had to pick and pinch everywhere I could. I did a cost comparison of the parts I have and what it would cost to do it all from new scratch and I would be at 39000 dollars. I was able to shave off 16000 dollars from buying parts that others didn't use, I got a lot of military discount help (unsolicited). And had just a great time finding parts. I had to wheel and deal to get the price I could afford. Its all part of the fun of the build. But in the end I am out about 23K vs frivolous spending on new parts that would cost me 39000 in the overall build. I am not part of the show club but I built this car to drive it. The paint and body work I am sure will be a big expense but I plan to slowly approach that with my own time and body work. The paint may be the only thing I farm out.

**Paparazzi** · 07-31-2018, 08:06 PM

One day I'll get the bodywork done and painted properly. But until then, my Mk3 is proudly driven with home made decals and a $60 Plastidip rattle can paint job. You'd not believe the comments I get suggesting I just leave it the way it is.

It's true that the great majority of 'look at my build' posts are real beauties, perfectly crafted, and showroom finish. But I'm sure there are so many that don't get posted - let's see them here in their glory.

**Gumball** · 07-31-2018, 08:53 PM

Lynn Park (aka "Mr. Cobra") once said that you can tell the originals from the replicas because the replicas are always clean and shiny.

Here's a story on one of his cars - affectionately known as "Dirtbag."

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...n-parks-cobras

**miller7448** · 08-01-2018, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by Paparazzi

One day I'll get the bodywork done and painted properly. But until then, my Mk3 is proudly driven with home made decals and a $60 Plastidip rattle can paint job. You'd not believe the comments I get suggesting I just leave it the way it is.

It's true that the great majority of 'look at my build' posts are real beauties, perfectly crafted, and showroom finish. But I'm sure there are so many that don't get posted - let's see them here in their glory.

OK, that is what I'm talking about! I might be crazy, but at least I'm not the only one.

**Boydster** · 08-01-2018, 10:27 AM

My car is going to be a driver, its gonna look damn good, but not be subjected to sideways thru the gravel at the racetrack. I plan on autocrossing, weekend local car shows, a few trips here and there and be able to wax her up and make her all pretty. Best of both worlds. Planning on being in the rain with no top. Even with expensive body work and paint, using factory colors so touchup is available. So is it a beater? No. Its gonna look damn sharp but get used in the process. May look a little rough around the edges after a while, but thats OK.

**Jim1855** · 08-01-2018, 03:40 PM

Given an option to drive or wax, driving wins. I don't expect to have pretty paint. Every time I washed and waxed the two previous cars I was more concerned about not getting them dirty than I was having fun. Never again!
Jim

**Avalanche325** · 08-01-2018, 04:15 PM

I did drive mine in gelcoat for a summer. Man, it was HARD to take it off the road.

If you drive, you will get chips in the paint. The first one hurts. But that is what touchup paint is for. I have several chips on the front that need a dab right now. They can stay looking good (not concourse good) and get driven a lot. Heading to Daytona on Saturday for autocross. I guess comes down to having a realistic expectation of what you want the car for and realizing that wear and tear is part of the equation for that use.

One item for thought. It is Easy to touch up a straight color. Metallic, not so much.

**BEAR-AvHistory** · 08-01-2018, 09:03 PM

Think it's pretty bizarre to for people to say that you can't have a quality paint job that looks good & is also a DD & Auto-X runner.

You want to drive a beater drive a beater but don't try to claim that well finished cars are somehow not drivers.

Currently 10,000+ miles.

**edwardb** · 08-01-2018, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Think it's pretty bizarre to for people to say that you can't have a quality paint job that looks good & is also a DD & Auto-X runner.

You want to drive a beater drive a beater but don't try to claim that well finished cars are somehow not drivers.

THANK YOU! (Yes, I'm yelling...) I've started saying that a number of times when this subject came up, but just backed away from the keyboard. Having a nicely finished car and a driver don't have to be mutually exclusive. And one isn't better than the other. Room in the hobby for all types. People see my car and start the "trailer queen" bit (which I can't stand BTW) and I show them the odometer. Never mind they say.

No, I'm not driving it across the country and we have pretty short seasons here in Michigan. But I've managed to get several thousand miles a year, or more, on my cars. I know that's not a lot compared to some. But it's a whole lot more than rolling it on/off a trailer. Have two drives coming up this weekend.

**Dave Howard** · 08-02-2018, 12:34 AM

Blasphemy??? Not a chance. Great question and even better responses by respected heavy weights in our community. Like others have said, there is no right or wrong. Its what you want. So if you choose to have a trailer queen don't get all defensive about it. It's alright. It gets easier after the first rock chip or after being caught in your first rain storm.

**miller7448** · 08-02-2018, 08:19 AM

Great comments by all! Our plan is to keep the build simple. Agree, no right or wrong. Maybe the second one will be the one we focus on fit and finish

Mike

This may sound ridiculous but I also think there is half a chance either my son or I will smack a tree with it. I'm already picturing ordering a new frame and moving the parts that survive over. Don't hate me, just a different take on the build and use of the MK.

**wareaglescott** · 08-02-2018, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by miller7448

Great comments by all! Our plan is to keep the build simple. Agree, no right or wrong. Maybe the second one will be the one we focus on fit and finish

Mike

This may sound ridiculous but I also think there is half a chance either my son or I will smack a tree with it. I'm already picturing ordering a new frame and moving the parts that survive over. Don't hate me, just a different take on the build and use of the MK.

Not to be an a-hole but with that mindset there is also half a chance you or your son will be dead. The driver does not fair well generally in accidents with these. Maybe you are just joking around but I would caution you against that mindset.

**mike223** · 08-02-2018, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by wareaglescott

Not to be an a-hole but with that mindset there is also half a chance you or your son will be dead.

Considerably better than half a chance.

Some mistakes you only get to make once - that would be one of them....

**BEAR-AvHistory** · 08-02-2018, 11:12 AM

People who drive afraid make poor decisions. Respect the car don't be afraid of it.

**miller7448** · 08-02-2018, 01:22 PM

I drive motorcycles without a helmet. When other motorcycle riders look at me with horror I explain it this way;

A motorcycle is more dangerous than a car but you ride because the enjoyment is worth the extra risk. Your decision.

For me the enjoyment without a helmet out ways the risk. My decision.

As long as I'm not endangering others and until the nanny state says otherwise I'll make the personal decision how risky to drive.

Everyones risk aversion is different. I don't try to convince them to remove their helmets. (I did require my son to wear one, and encourage him to always wear one now). He's young and has yet to raise a family. I'm old, have seen the world and riding a bike fast is one of the few things in life that still generates excitement. I plan to experience the same excitement in the MK. I'm ensured for over 5 million and my wife just might be happier with the money than me

. OK, I hope that was a joke.

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