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Thread: Miller Time MK4

  1. #1
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    Miller Time MK4

    Guess I found a name for the build thread. (I can change that later right?!).

    First 2 questions already:

    1) Did not receive a spacing tool and it's not on the inventory list. Is this a real thing? Guess I'll just make one.

    2) Engine bay F panels don't line up with the frame. Not sweating the small stuff just wondering if I should assume where they are screwed is the best location or should I move the DS back to match the frame more.

    Thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller7448 View Post
    Guess I found a name for the build thread. (I can change that later right?!).

    First 2 questions already:

    1) Did not receive a spacing tool and it's not on the inventory list. Is this a real thing? Guess I'll just make one.

    2) Engine bay F panels don't line up with the frame. Not sweating the small stuff just wondering if I should assume where they are screwed is the best location or should I move the DS back to match the frame more.

    Thanks
    Mr. Miller,

    No, don't assume that the screws place the panels in the perfect, 100% spot on location.
    Remove one panel and attempt to lay them up against the frame to see exactly where it fits best.
    You can see how they should fit in my walk around update video that I did a long, long time ago.

    https://youtu.be/_wnHDNgnNqs

    Just slow down or stop the video and you can get a good look at each panel and how they come together.

    Good Luck & Have A Great Build!

    Steve

    PS: Just ignore the driveline!
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 07-31-2018 at 08:42 PM.

  3. #3
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    You should have the spacing tool in one of the boxes. If not call FFR for one they make rivet placement much easier and faster.
    Mk4, Moser M88 rear end, Eaton truetrak, Craft Racing 461 Windsor, MMR pro trans, Glennís 1,000 hp cobra fuel system and lots of other parts.

  4. #4
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    Just ordered this:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Aircraft Tool Supply Rivet Fan Spacer (Mini)

    I think the adjustable spacing might work better.

  5. #5
    edwardb's Avatar
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    1. Agree the location of the aluminum panels for shipping may/may not be perfect and should be checked as you go. But if they are off, typically not much. Those guys have done just a few of these. But for those F panel pieces, I'd be more concerned about where they fit around the front suspension mounting points than that specific location by the radiator cross tube. That piece is known to be sometimes mounted at an angle. Hard to see in your pics, but looks like the gaps down by the suspension look pretty similar. But look there, not at what's in your pictures.

    2. The rivet spacer tool looks like a ruler. 17 inches long x 1-1/2 inches wide with a row of 2-inch spaced holes along one edge and 3-inch spaced holes along the other edge. It should be in the same box as all the other loose aluminum pieces. It would be easy to miss. Handy to have if you didn't receive it.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    1. Agree the location of the aluminum panels for shipping may/may not be perfect and should be checked as you go. But if they are off, typically not much. Those guys have done just a few of these. But for those F panel pieces, I'd be more concerned about where they fit around the front suspension mounting points than that specific location by the radiator cross tube. That piece is known to be sometimes mounted at an angle. Hard to see in your pics, but looks like the gaps down by the suspension look pretty similar. But look there, not at what's in your pictures.

    Thanks Ed, just wondering what I should optimize. Makes perfect sense, suspension mounting points it is.

    2. The rivet spacer tool looks like a ruler. 17 inches long x 1-1/2 inches wide with a row of 2-inch spaced holes along one edge and 3-inch spaced holes along the other edge. It should be in the same box as all the other loose aluminum pieces. It would be easy to miss. Handy to have if you didn't receive it.
    Will check that box again.

  7. #7
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    The good - Got the body off and onto the buck

    body.jpgbody on buck.jpg

    The bad - One of the two lower control arms has a bad fitting hole. Don't see anyway it could have been damaged in shipment. I think it was bad from the manufactuer

    lower control arm.jpg

  8. #8
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    Looks like a grease zerk got snapped off in transit... but they're usually not pre-installed... wierd.
    John D. - Minneapolis 'Burbs

    1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixit View Post
    Looks like a grease zerk got snapped off in transit... but they're usually not pre-installed... wierd.
    zerk was not installed. Was loose in packaging as instructions indicate. Part looks like it was either dropped really hard or mis-formed in factory.

  10. #10
    Senior Member HiggyMK4#????'s Avatar
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    I'm sure FF will make it right, just have to contact them.
    Higgy
    'Collecting knowledge and parts for a future build'

  11. #11
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    Quick question about the upper control arms. Assembled the first one exactly per both the photo and diagram shown in the manual. Attempting the other side and I don't understand how I can reverse the parts to put the solid side of the balljoint plate in the front. Is there a left and right balljoint mount. Mine are identical hence no way to reverse. IE the ball joint would point in when the control arm is horizontal not out as shown in the photos.


    Thanks
    Last edited by miller7448; 08-08-2018 at 06:56 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller7448 View Post
    Quick question about the upper control arms. Assembled the first one exactly per both the photo and diagram shown in the manual. Attempting the other side and I don't understand how I can reverse the parts to put the solid side of the balljoint plate in the front. Is there a left and right balljoint mount. Mine are identical hence no way to reverse. IE the ball joint would point in when the control arm is horizontal not out as shown in the photos.

    Thanks
    UCA's will have the solid connection in the front on one side and the back on the other side. No problem and totally normal. In both cases, the ball joint must be pointed out at the bottom. Like this:

    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
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    Thanks Ed, just seems like this will make alignment difficult since the geometry is so different. Will proceed.

  14. Thanks John Dol thanked for this post
  15. #14
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller7448 View Post
    Thanks Ed, just seems like this will make alignment difficult since the geometry is so different. Will proceed.
    Maybe seems that way, but it's not. Works out just fine. Whole bunch of 'em built this way and the alignment adjusts dead on. You're not the first to question it though.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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    I'm looking at going with an EFI 427 with a TKO-600 6 speed. I understand this might require cutting a cross member. Could not find anything searching here. Anyone familiar with this combination and required modification or other thoughts on this choice. Thanks.

  17. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by miller7448 View Post
    I'm looking at going with an EFI 427 with a TKO-600 6 speed. I understand this might require cutting a cross member. Could not find anything searching here. Anyone familiar with this combination and required modification or other thoughts on this choice. Thanks.
    TKO 600 is a 5 speed. T56 is 6 speed. Which is it? What rear end are you using? Be aware that the T56 is not recommended with a live axle due to driveshaft length.

    Jeff

  18. #17
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller7448 View Post
    I'm looking at going with an EFI 427 with a TKO-600 6 speed. I understand this might require cutting a cross member. Could not find anything searching here. Anyone familiar with this combination and required modification or other thoughts on this choice. Thanks.
    TKO's only come in 5-speed. I suspect you're asking about the 6-speed T-56? It's bigger, longer, and heavier than the TKO's. Yes, it will fit in the Roadster and a number have been done. But with several caveats: Generally the recommendation is only with IRS. The longer T-56 makes an already short driveshaft even shorter, and the solid axle is going to move too much. The fixed diff in an IRS setup can handle the shorter driveshaft. Having said that, guys have put a T-56 in a solid axle with a mod motor or a Coyote, because they put the bell housing/trans an inch or more forward compared to a SBF, so that's a more workable setup. I know that doesn't apply in your situation, but just giving a complete answer. Of course anything's possible if you're going to start cutting and welding, e.g. moving the motor mounts forward. But that gets into other issues, like headers, side pipe location, etc.

    You don't say what rear suspension you have, and couldn't find it in your other posts. I'd recommend adding a sig line to your profile with your kit specifications. Lots of examples with other forum members.

    Also, yes a change is required to the transmission A-frame. This thread describes and has some pics: https://www.ffcars.com/forums/45-for...m-fit-mk4.html
    Last edited by edwardb; 08-10-2018 at 04:05 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  19. #18
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    Yes T56 MAG 2.66/63. Yes running IRS. I would love to add sign line and photo but don't know if I have reached enough posts but can't for the life of me find a place to edit it. And thanks for the link to the other forum!

    It's always in the last place you look - under settings, found it.
    Last edited by miller7448; 08-10-2018 at 06:28 PM.

  20. #19
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    Couple questions.

    1) I'm trying to avoid asking questions already answered here. When I query I just get a long list of threads, including build threads with no clue where the actual post containing relevant information exists within each thread. Is there a better way?

    2) The hub studs to replace the originals do not have the same flat area to avoid interfering with the rubber piece between the two sections of the hub. Do people normally grind a flat for clearance?

    3) Can't find a through hole lug nut listed on the inventory. Did I miss it, is one provided or do I just buy one?

    Thanks
    Last edited by miller7448; 08-12-2018 at 11:16 AM. Reason: correction
    Mk4, IRS, (427 with EFI, T-56 MAG)

  21. #20
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    Back at it after two week bike trip through Canada leading up to Harley 115th celebrations in Milwaukee. Anyone else have this happen while setting the studs? Threads ripped out of the lug nut. Used lubrication, but nut failed on the fourth one. Guess it is better than stripping the bolt.

    20180903_083756.jpg
    Last edited by miller7448; 09-03-2018 at 09:17 AM. Reason: spelling
    Mk4, IRS, (427 with EFI, T-56 MAG)

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller7448 View Post
    Back at it after two week bike trip through Canada leading up to Harley 115th celebrations in Milwaukee. Anyone else have this happen while setting the studs? Threads ripped out of the lug nut. Used lubrication, but nut failed on the fourth one. Guess it is better than stripping the bolt.

    20180903_083756.jpg
    I've set the kit provided 1/2 - 20 studs used with the 2015+ IRS setup a couple times. I use an impact driver that I know puts out well over 100 ft-lbs and it's just able to pull them in. Since lug nuts are typically torqued at around 85 ft-lbs, likely you were well over that amount. I always use a hardened nut and washer instead of the lug nut. Keeps them from getting banged up plus the chance of overstressing which you clearly did.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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    On to the next challenge. The back set of sleeves for the center section are too small. Fairly certain I read something about a different set of sleeves. Can't find anything in the manual or searching the forum. I do find a bag marked 15345 that I can't find anywhere on the inventory pages. It contains what appear to be the right sized sleeves and bolts but also contains nuts and cotter pins.
    Mk4, IRS, (427 with EFI, T-56 MAG)

  24. #23
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    Only using a 16" breaker bar and I'm a software guy so unlikely over 100ft-lbs . Bought some "normal" looking lug nuts and set the rest of the studs without problems.
    Mk4, IRS, (427 with EFI, T-56 MAG)

  25. #24
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    Is there any type of listing or searchable directory of "mods". Shame on me for not collecting them as I read the many valuable posts in the build threads but now that it's time to actually implement some of them my memory fails me.
    Mk4, IRS, (427 with EFI, T-56 MAG)

  26. #25
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    There was a post not to long ago of common/must do mods. Here's a link...

    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...highlight=mods

    Don't click it unless you want to spend money.
    Last edited by Yama-Bro; 10-05-2018 at 12:02 PM.
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

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  28. #26
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    Thanks Yama-Bro for the links to the mods. Could not find what I was looking for the eBrake cables so did something on my own. I got past the initial dislike of running the cables under the 4" cross member, but very unhappy with the inability to make up for the inherent misalignment caused by the cable bracket being vertically positioned which causes the cable paths to be different lengths. The Clevis picture is the minimum misalignment possible in my case.

    EBRAKE CABLE MISALIGNMENT.jpg

    I live in the Kettle Moraine, parking on a hill is common. Having only one side engage is not acceptable.
    Created a bracket that places the cable ends in alignment and also puts the cables in the correct geometry to avoid the normal bends before going under the 4” tube. I will need to make a linkage since the cables are now too short but this is simple.

    EBRAKE BRAKET.jpg
    EBRAKE CABLES.jpg


    Two questions: 1) Is this bracket likely to be in the way as the build progresses. 2) If it's OK where it is, thoughts on bolting vrs welding.
    Thanks
    Last edited by miller7448; 10-08-2018 at 01:36 PM.
    Mk4, IRS, (427 with EFI, T-56 MAG)

  29. #27
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    Anyone know how to change the name of a build thread? I think mine is offending people
    Mk4, IRS, (427 with EFI, T-56 MAG)

  30. #28
    Senior Member BadAsp427's Avatar
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    On the list of build threads, where it is showing all of our threads, just double click just to the right of the word "Beater" and it will then allow you to change it. See below, where I did it for mine...
    ScreenShotFor Beater.jpg
    Last edited by BadAsp427; 10-09-2018 at 02:58 PM.

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 ( #8 of 20 ) Purchased 8/18/18 Started 8/19/18 First Start 11-1-18
    Build Thread Click Here

  31. #29
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    Perfect Thanks!
    Mk4, IRS, (427 with EFI, T-56 MAG)

  32. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller7448 View Post
    Thanks Yama-Bro for the links to the mods. Could not find what I was looking for the eBrake cables so did something on my own. I got past the initial dislike of running the cables under the 4" cross member, but very unhappy with the inability to make up for the inherent misalignment caused by the cable bracket being vertically positioned which causes the cable paths to be different lengths. The Clevis picture is the minimum misalignment possible in my case.

    EBRAKE CABLE MISALIGNMENT.jpg

    I live in the Kettle Moraine, parking on a hill is common. Having only one side engage is not acceptable.
    Created a bracket that places the cable ends in alignment and also puts the cables in the correct geometry to avoid the normal bends before going under the 4” tube. I will need to make a linkage since the cables are now too short but this is simple.

    EBRAKE BRAKET.jpg
    EBRAKE CABLES.jpg


    Two questions: 1) Is this bracket likely to be in the way as the build progresses. 2) If it's OK where it is, thoughts on bolting vrs welding.
    Thanks
    Before I make the final bracket with gussets and have it powder coated could anyone tell me if the location will cause build problems later on? Guess I can just leave it clamped until later.

    Thanks
    Mk4, IRS, (427 with EFI, T-56 MAG)

  33. #31
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    Anyone else waiting for Koni shocks? I ordered my kit on 5/24 almost 5 months ago and still waiting for 15' IRS KONI DOUBLE ADJUSTABLE SHOCK SET. Is it time to look at the Breeze replacements?
    Mk4, IRS, (427 with EFI, T-56 MAG)

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