Frame Paint Recommendations?

[FlyingCobra]

I opted not to go with the powdercoating on the frame for my Mk4 kit and plan to paint it.

I'm curious for those who have painted their frames:

1) What paint did you use?
2) How has it held up?
3) How many years/miles do you have on your car now?

Right now I'm thinking about using Rustoleum Farm & Implement paint, thinking 2 coats of primer followed by 2 coats of paint. Reviews seem good and Rustoleum paint on the whole is good quality in my experience, we use it on all sorts of projects with good results. It does tend to take a while to fully cure, but when you consider that this will probably take us 1-2 years to complete the car and painting the frame will be one of the first things we do, that's just fine, we have time.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Ever heard that old saying about "Penny wise and pound foolish." Man, I'm all for saving money where it makes sense but have to say that trying to save a few bucks by painting the chassis vs having FFR deliver it coated is one of those deals that falls into that "penny wise/pound foolish" category. You have told us that you're getting 20% off of options during the sale---that means that the $500 powder coating will actually only cost you $400. What's the Rustoleum cost; 50 or so a gallon for each primer and topcoat? Now you're down to an end cost for coating of 300 or so. Seems like a no brainer to me...

Jeff

[NAZ]

I've made more than my share of painting mistakes so feel well qualified to weigh-in on this subject even knowing many will disagree with my opinion.

I've used a lot of rattle can paints over the last half-century including all the major brands like Rustoleum. None of these hardware paints hold up well and fade significantly with UV exposure. They are perfect for a tractor or implement -- cheap and easy to find. But if you want a quality paint job avoid these like you would avoid a back ally Hong Kong brothel. You only get one shot at painting the chassis so make it count. I have painted lots of tube chassis and frames and in my experience there are only two types of coating that I will use -- powder coating (the most durable and easiest option) and automotive coatings. These hold up well as they are intended for the type of exposure a car will see. I can't emphasize enough that powder coating should be your first consideration. If you don't have a powder coater in your area that can handle a chassis or if they are smoking crack when they give you some out of this world price then automotive paint is a good second choice. But it's a lot of work -- probably more than painting the body on a small car.

If you think you're going to save some money doing this yourself with rattle cans you may be in for a surprise. It's very difficult to paint a tube chassis and get a good finish. You have to start on the inside as you are going to be leaning over the outer chassis tubes. With some practice you'll get good at painting a round bar but then you'll move to the outer tubes and all that overspray will fog the inner bars you just painted leaving them with a dull sheen from the dusting they got. So you'll go back over them again after everything is dry and possibly repeat this a few times before you're satisfied. Beside the extra work you'll be buying more paint than you planned on. A good spray gun is a better choice but really only marginally better. Of course you won't have this problem with powder coating.

If you are convinced you want to rattle can your chassis I suggest you use Eastwood's two-part chassis paint. It is a good quality two-part AUTOMOTIVE paint in a can that has the best spray pattern you'll find on a rattle can. The finish comes out great and the paint is durable. But it ain't cheap and neither is any automotive paint. But no matter what paint you use it will be a challenge to get a good finish on a tube chassis. And if you use the cheap stuff it will look faded in no time. So before you choose an option, think about what it will take to repaint your chassis a year of two down the road if the Cheap Depot paint you thought was a bargain doesn't hold up.

Good luck. Been there, done that.

[FlyingCobra]

Post redacted.

[FlyingCobra]

I've made more than my share of painting mistakes so feel well qualified to weigh-in on this subject even knowing many will disagree with my opinion.

I've used a lot of rattle can paints over the last half-century including all the major brands like Rustoleum. None of these hardware paints hold up well and fade significantly with UV exposure. They are perfect for a tractor or implement -- cheap and easy to find. But if you want a quality paint job avoid these like you would avoid a back ally Hong Kong brothel. You only get one shot at painting the chassis so make it count. I have painted lots of tube chassis and frames and in my experience there are only two types of coating that I will use -- powder coating (the most durable and easiest option) and automotive coatings. These hold up well as they are intended for the type of exposure a car will see. I can't emphasize enough that powder coating should be your first consideration. If you don't have a powder coater in your area that can handle a chassis or if they are smoking crack when they give you some out of this world price then automotive paint is a good second choice. But it's a lot of work -- probably more than painting the body on a small car.

If you think you're going to save some money doing this yourself with rattle cans you may be in for a surprise. It's very difficult to paint a tube chassis and get a good finish. You have to start on the inside as you are going to be leaning over the outer chassis tubes. With some practice you'll get good at painting a round bar but then you'll move to the outer tubes and all that overspray will fog the inner bars you just painted leaving them with a dull sheen from the dusting they got. So you'll go back over them again after everything is dry and possibly repeat this a few times before you're satisfied. Beside the extra work you'll be buying more paint than you planned on. A good spray gun is a better choice but really only marginally better. Of course you won't have this problem with powder coating.

If you are convinced you want to rattle can your chassis I suggest you use Eastwood's two-part chassis paint. It is a good quality two-part AUTOMOTIVE paint in a can that has the best spray pattern you'll find on a rattle can. The finish comes out great and the paint is durable. But it ain't cheap and neither is any automotive paint. But no matter what paint you use it will be a challenge to get a good finish on a tube chassis. And if you use the cheap stuff it will look faded in no time. So before you choose an option, think about what it will take to repaint your chassis a year of two down the road if the Cheap Depot paint you thought was a bargain doesn't hold up.

Good luck. Been there, done that.

Thanks for the helpful response.

My issue with powder coating is that I've read reports (seems like mostly on ffcars) of it chipping easily or flaking off over time. I've also dealt with powder coated items and found similar when done by others. Maybe FFR wasn't doing it well for a period of time, maybe they're better now, maybe the other items I've had that were powder coated were done poorly, whatever. So that's what got me thinking on the paint side of things more than anything. We are looking at painting the frame a different color (red) although don't plan any modifications to it.

The Eastwood paint was one that got recommended, and they make good products. I've worked with POR15 in the past, but actually used as something to paint over rust (as it's named) as opposed to painting a normal bare metal frame.

As I said, the point of the initial post was asking exactly the question of what people have tried and how it's held up for those who've done it.

[edwardb]

Q: "Hi, I have a question."
A: "Here's the answer to a question you didn't ask, or here's an answer that I read on the internet and I actually haven't tried myself because I haven't done what you want. Also, you're an idiot."

If I can't ask a question without getting the above, then I might as well deactivate my account. So far, I've started two threads in here and both have had the above response.

You received an answer from one of the most experienced builders on here, me with four builds, and another with also lots of excellent experience and knowledge. I deleted my post because it seems likely your comments were directed toward me and I don't want or need the attitude.

For the record, you're right, I don't have any personal experience painting a whole chassis. I've used POR15 a lot, just not on an entire chassis. But I've read multiple forum posts where guys have chosen to paint vs. the factory powder coat, and shared their observations. Same thing you would find if you did a forum search. You didn't say why you were choosing own paint over powder coat, so I asked. Seemed like a reasonable question to me. Apparently you didn't think so. And BTW, nobody called you an idiot.

There's a ton of experience and good information on here and you'll be missing out if you deactivate your account. Your choice.

[NAZ]

Like all coatings, powder coating requires proper surface prep if it is expected to hold up. Since you want a different color than black the Eastwood Chassis Black and POR 15 are out. So you still have a choice between quality automotive paint or powder coat and I'd still recommend the powder coating first. I have longterm experience with both these coatings and am sure you'd be happy with either but powder coating still has the edge in ease of application and durability.

[Ducky2009]

Sounds like NAZ has some good advise. I've used Rustoleum for several of the small brackets that don't come powder coated (and I didn't send them out for it). Color fading and surface rust starting to appear. Eastwood is great. I've repainted several items before finishing my final assembly. Good luck!

[dnew]

HI,
I wanted something other than black powder coated frame, so mine was unpainted too. I used the POR15 silver paint. It is one of my regrets. I followed their instructions and used the prep and such but it doesn't look as good as I had hoped. If I had to do it over, I am pretty sure I would have sent it to a local powder coater and had it done in silver (however the cost would have been significantly more than the FF black powder coating).

my 2 cents

[Joecobr]

I ordered the bare metal frame. I ended up sandblasting it, applying POR15 and Eastwood chassis black at a greater cost than the PC and with inferior results. The POR15 would not adhere without the sandblasting. Live and learn.

[skidd]

I opted to paint my frame. I'm ok at best with how it came out, but not actually really happy with it. I figured, " meh.. how hard could it be to paint it". Yeah.. it wasn't trivial. If I was to do it over again, I would powder coat it.
At least, the places that my paint has chipped away, it's pretty easy to re-cover. But.. it's way way to easy to chip.
That said, I used Rustoleum and Rustoleum Primer both out of a can and applied with lots and lots of brushes.
The parts that I painted directly to the metal (the entire 8.8 rear housing) are actually holding up really really well. It's standing up to jack-stands and the floor jack really well.
The parts I put down a coat of primer first (the whole dang frame), are chipping when I look at it funny.
I guess if push came to shove, I might do a frame again in Rustoleum without primer.. but... not gonna happen.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Q: "Hi, I have a question."
A: "Here's the answer to a question you didn't ask, or here's an answer that I read on the internet and I actually haven't tried myself because I haven't done what you want. Also, you're an idiot."

If I can't ask a question without getting the above, then I might as well deactivate my account. So far, I've started two threads in here and both have had the above response.

Is that what you took away from my reply? I kinda' know a thing or two about these cars after doing more than you can count on your two hands and just might be able to offer some usable input or information based on real experience (not internet lore) but if you'd rather not get responses from me to your posts simply say so and I'll be happy to ignore them.

Jeff

[Jim1855]

Mine is powdercoated. I've made many changes with the addition of rollbar tubes, engine mounts and other frame mods. The guys at the shop let me paint the bare areas. What a PITA! Every tube had something behind it in the direction of spray. It's covered, just not pretty.

Used PPG Durethane 2-part, DTM base & cure. I think you'd need 2 gallons because so much is wasted going into the air. It was about $120/gal.

The Durethane did blend in well, the guys at the paint supply store did well mixing the color.

I'm not a painter, not by any stretch, it wasn't fun.

Powdercoat from FFR is a great deal.

Jim

[Avalanche325]

Edit: Self policing to keep things friendly and constructive.

If someone who has built multiple FFRs, offered me advice on painting my frame (someone like Jeff Kleiner).... I would give consideration to his wealth of experience. This is a forum. All topics are up for DISCUSSION and even debate. Sometimes we even get on the edge of argument. But it is all to help each other. If you want to take your ball and go home, have a nice build. We'll still be happy to help if you get stuck.

Arnold.png

[FlyingCobra]

Thanks for all the "been there done that" posts with thoughts and recommendations. I've just had bad luck with powdercoating and seen it flake off on virtually every vehicle it's been put on. Combine that with posts from this forum (and the other) about FFR not doing very good prep work for the powdercoating and that leaves me skeptical. I understand that most people are pleased with it. But, between past experience and my desire for a different color, painting the frame is the direction I've chosen. Build it the way you want, right?

Is that what you took away from my reply? I kinda' know a thing or two about these cars after doing more than you can count on your two hands and just might be able to offer some usable input or information based on real experience (not internet lore) but if you'd rather not get responses from me to your posts simply say so and I'll be happy to ignore them.

Jeff

Jeff (and Edward), I appreciate the experience that you bring. I can also admit I hit "post" too quickly and should've let it go, especially since you both provided helpful responses on my initial Donor Car thread. My point is, I was asking for paint recommendations, not on whether to go with powdercoating vs. painting. As I explained above, I've not had good luck with powdercoating in general, and don't want the frame in black. So, there you have it. I understand you don't think it's the way to go and appreciate you trying to save me from a costly mistake, but as I said I have my reasons why I don't want to go that way.

[FlyingCobra]

Edit: Self policing to keep things friendly and constructive.

If someone who has built multiple FFRs, offered me advice on painting my frame (someone like Jeff Kleiner).... I would give consideration to his wealth of experience. This is a forum. All topics are up for DISCUSSION and even debate. Sometimes we even get on the edge of argument. But it is all to help each other. If you want to take your ball and go home, have a nice build. We'll still be happy to help if you get stuck.

Arnold.png

I went ahead and redacted my post for the same reasons you edited yours.

I'm all for discussion, that's why we're here, and I've spent the past 20+ years on internet forums, so I know how it goes. I've received a lot of useful discussion on why the path I'm choosing is perhaps not preferable on this thread, so thanks to everyone for that. I've also gotten some good tips on what I might want to avoid, and prior to painting my frame I'm going to do some practice work on some of my tractors (they need painting anyway - great reason to practice) since they're of similar scale from a painting perspective to see how that goes and try to make sure the frame looks good.

[JimLev]

I had my Hotrod chassis powder coated. I've painted and powder may parts over the years, powder coating alway came out better and was a LOT more durable that any paint.
If you do decide to paint it I'd use self etching primer and the Eastwood paint NAZ mentioned.
Just to let you know FFR doesn't do the powder coating, they get it done by Teknicote in Cumberland, RI.

[rich grsc]

Built 3 cars, and have helped a bunch of friends with theirs. NEVER have I seen poor powered coating on an FFR frame. You can get powder in any color you can think up, but I know you want to paint.