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Thread: Roll Bar

  1. #1
    Senior Member MBB Larry's Avatar
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    Roll Bar

    My Stage 3 Kit is on order. Gathering Options from IRS and Kootenai for my build. Kit should arrive in about 5-weeks. One of the first items is to prep the Frame
    for Powder Coating. Was looking into possibly installing Dual Roll Bars??? I am purchasing the IRS Removable Hard Top. I saw one drawing on the Forum. Has anyone installed Rollbars from an OEM "Sports Car"??

  2. #2
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    The FFR designed faux roll bar is of dubious value as a safety feature. If you want a functional roll bar (or roll bars) that's going to require some design, engineering, and fabrication work. The basic issue with the FFR design is inadequate bracing.

  3. #3
    Senior Member TDSapp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAZ View Post
    The FFR designed faux roll bar is of dubious value as a safety feature. If you want a functional roll bar (or roll bars) that's going to require some design, engineering, and fabrication work. The basic issue with the FFR design is inadequate bracing.
    Yeah from what I understand FFR has said that the roll bar is for looks only and should not be considered a safety feature. I have been thinking about not even installing it but then I think that it might give my wife a little "ease of mind" with it there.
    Tim Sapp
    11110001101
    Build Blog: http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/blog/

    33 Hot Rod
    Delivered 5/31/2017

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    Senior Member MBB Larry's Avatar
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    Thanks Guys. It may not be worth installing?? The front structure is certainly useless. And looking at the FF bar, I would not have much faith in helping in a roll-over. I kinda
    like the ones I had on my Z4. You have to consider Lateral and Longitudinal loads also.

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    Senior Member FF33rod's Avatar
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    Agreed on the lack of functionality. As I started to read up on the different build threads a few weeks ago, I remember seeing where someone designed a dual roll bar add-on. Does anyone recall what thread it was in?

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    Senior Member JOP33's Avatar
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    I was going to weld mine to my lift and use it as a grab handle when I need help getting off the floor!
    33' Hot Rod Coupe/Roadster (GEN 1), Fendered, Ford 302, 350hp, EFI, AOD, 4-Link, Double Adjustable Koni Coilovers, Split Rear Exhaust, Electric Power Steering, AC/Heat/Defrost, Moser 8.8"-3.55, Willwood Front/Rear Brakes, 18" x 8" Fronts/20" x 10" Rears, Ordered: 1.26.17, Arrived: 3.29.17, First Start: 7.2.18, Go Cart: 11.4.18 Paint/Body: 2.23.19, Back Home: 11.24.19, Completed: NEVER!; View More Pics @ https://starmobileone.com/

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    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    Look up Tim Collins build, he built dual roll bars.
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

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  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by CVOBill View Post
    Look up Tim Collins build, he built dual roll bars.
    Ditto to that comment. Tim built bolt-in dual roll bars that look nice and serve as head rest supports. He very generously shared his design drawings with me via email and had suggestions on where to get some specific components IIRC. Just send him your email address in a PM with your request for info. Tim brought his car (from MI!) to the HB Cruise-In this year, where he won Best In Show - Hot Rod. His build was very well executed and Tim was a great guy - willing to answer all my dumb questions and disclose a few design and fabrication secrets. Keith

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  11. #9
    Senior Member MBB Larry's Avatar
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    I found a Roll Bar I like. I saw it on Tim Whittaker's build page. It looks great, and can be used with my Hard Top also. I contacted Tim at Kootenai and he advised he is waiting on a few more orders, so he can have them made at a reduced cost. If anyone is looking for a well designed Roll Bar, you might give Tim a call. I tried to attach a photo, but could not get the attachment to post. I'll try again.HPIM0820.jpg

  12. #10
    Ol Skool
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    When considering the roll bar along with the Simpson harness arrangement a whole host of modifications mushroom out of the chassis prep. About all the FFR bar is good for is attaching a 3 point retractable shoulder belt to for street use. Why? You can't reach the dash if you have long legs with the 5 point Simpson. The 2 previous sentences create about a dozen significant modifications. Have a ball...

  13. #11
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    If you're looking for roll bar to actually protect you in a rollover this one appears even less affective then the FFR. There is still no front, rear, or lateral bracing to prevent this bar from folding up during a rollover. And the tapered design may not pass a broomstick test even if it was properly braced. It certainly would not comply with SCCA or NHRA. I've been on my top twice and it gets violent very quickly. I would not (and did not) trust the FFR supplied roll bar to protect me or my passenger.

    Larry, if you're simply looking for style this one may fit your needs but if your expectation is that this bar will provide protection in a rollover be advised that not all roll bars are actually "roll bars" that will protect you in a rollover. FFR has designed a very solid chassis but with two very significant flaws -- inadequate rollover protection and virtually no protection for a driveshaft failure. IMO, this is something all builders should at least consider and hopefully will address during their build. I have experienced rollovers and driveshaft explosions and believe me, both pose a risk of serious injury. And no, you don't have to be racing to experience either of these.

  14. #12
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    I built a roll cage for mine post 101 in toms33 build. I wanted me and the person with me to walk away.

  15. #13
    Senior Member MBB Larry's Avatar
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    Thanks Naz. Not expecting any of these to save me in a roll-over. I am not going to race the car, just for cruising around, and a few "burn-outs" maybe. Nothing serious. I saw one
    in Vancouver with the complete Roll Cage. I figure with the low center of gravity, it should be safe enough. Safer than a Motorcycle. The one that Tim is selling at least looks like a Roll Bar. You got me thinking about a Driveshaft failure. I will look into fabricating a shield. Did you make one?

  16. #14
    Mark Eaton's Avatar
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    Naz, this is news to me. does this hold true for the rollbars in the MK4 as well. Useless?

    Mark
    MK4 #9130 , complete kit, arrived 8/10/2017, Street Legal 2/14/2020.
    DART SHP 347, EFI, TKO600, IRS
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...n-Build-Thread

  17. #15
    Ol Skool
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Chappell View Post
    Thanks Naz. Not expecting any of these to save me in a roll-over. I am not going to race the car, just for cruising around, and a few "burn-outs" maybe. Nothing serious. I saw one
    in Vancouver with the complete Roll Cage. I figure with the low center of gravity, it should be safe enough. Safer than a Motorcycle. The one that Tim is selling at least looks like a Roll Bar. You got me thinking about a Driveshaft failure. I will look into fabricating a shield. Did you make one?
    With regards to the tunnel I just used 1/8" aluminum plate inside the two tunnel brackets. Not SFI/etc. but it will slow down the shrapnel more than the .030" sheet supplied. I have the Kirkey seat to slow it down a little more. you may need a loop also to avoid the pogo stick affect.
    We all have complained about the Roll Bar so much that FFR has added changes to the truck. I wouldn't be surprised that the HR gets an upgrade in the future. I suspect they will also drop the frame section at the front of the door like the truck also. We aren't try to scare you into thinking the car isn't safe...BUT, this is a light car with lots of potential for twitchiness and surprise. However, nothing about it meets any serious racing class in any sanctioning body I am aware of. That said many people run without the roll bar at all, and some people don't wear helmets on a pocket rocket. Its all about choices...

  18. #16
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    Larry, since I'm building a race car I had to fab an NHRA legal driveshaft loop to comply with the rules. NHRA will accept a 2" by 1/4" thick full loop around the driveshaft mounted so the front edge is within 6" of the center of the front u-joint. I also added one at the rear of the cockpit area and I made an 1/8" thick enclosure along the tunnel to protect the cockpit area from shrapnel. I really don't like the idea of a driveshaft running at thigh level between the seats without adequate protection.

    I had two driveshaft failures and the worst one did an amazing amount of damage to 1/4" thick steel that the driveshaft contacted. The driveshaft looked like it had been wrapped with 10' of detcord and set off while spinning.

  19. #17
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    Mark, I can't comment much on the effectiveness of the MK4 roll bar set-up. The ones I've seen do not appear to comply with NHRA rules for rollover protection in cars running 11.00 or quicker.

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