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Thread: P100DHG Build Thread - Gen 3 Coupe #138

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    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    Cool P100DHG Build Thread - Gen 3 Coupe #138

    To make navigating the thread and skipping to relevant parts easier, I have included a Table of Contents. Obviously feel free to read it through to understand the chronological order of how things happened but I am going to organize it by chapter/subject so everyone can easily jump around. Disclaimer: I am writing this on the fly so I will organize the table of contents by subject and the table of contents might not necessarily follow the order of the posts in the thread. Just a heads up, if at any point it sounds like I have all the answers, I don't, I asked my questions HERE and applied what I learned to the posts you see below. Along with reading a lot of threads here on the forum.

    Table Of Contents:

    1. Preface
    2. Ordering & Build Specs:

    3. The Build:
    3.2 Disc Brake Setup
    3.4 Rear Suspension
    Last edited by P100DHG; 03-16-2019 at 11:05 PM.

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    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    Preface

    So yesterday I took the plunge and ordered a 65 Daytona Coupe. Given my work schedule and travel obligations I put my FFR completion date out till December 22nd. Stewart will likely pick it up after the first of the year but I may get a holiday surprise delivery. Lets just say I am a sucker for a sale and the 50% of the options got me. I have never built a car like this. I had a 1964 Volkswagen Bug that I did a lot of work on when I was in my early twenties. I said to myself after that car never again will I do a classic car. I maintain that to this day but the idea of building a factory new car with the feel and look of a vintage car got me to bend the rules 10 years later. I thought about starting with a Cobra but after seeing the resale numbers on those (not that I would sell it but still) I thought it was better to buy a used one or a used kit on this forum and complete it rather than building one from scratch (so this will be my next one). Plus those dual side pipes and stance on the coupe are just too hard to resist. I have frequented Bob's Big Boy a local burger joint down the street from my house that has a classic car night every Friday. I've seen FFR cobras, superperformance cobras, even real cobras there but never a coupe. In fact I've never seen one in person.

    I would say my level of DIY is very advanced so I think this is well within my wheel house. Learning the names of all the parts will just have a natural learning curve. I think my biggest challenge with this build is the lack of space I have. I have a 2 car garage but I don't want to displace my Tesla Model S P100D so somehow it's going to have to share the space because that car isn't going outside. My wife is amazing with organization so hopefully she will help me with that. I have most of the tools required and what I don't have (those one time use tools) I'll get from the trusted Harbor Freight. (I'll be clipping those 25% off coupons starting now).

    I'm an avid BBQ guy and when I custom fabricated and built my smoker I posted all the plans and pictures of my build on Smoking Meat Forums and it has helped many people with theirs https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/th...-clone.232875/. I intend to do the same here. At least give some insight as to how I arrived at my conclusions and processes on the build. I want to start by saying that the threads I have read here are unbelievably helpful and I found many things I really liked on other peoples cars. I hope if I use your designs as inspiration you know that imitation is the highest form of flattery.

    In my prebuild thread I explored the thought of a Roush 427 and that is still in my mind but FFR was very concerned about it fitting under the hood. I would have loved a 289 with an 8 stack (original spec of the car) but I am not going to become an engine builder nor am I going to buy a Shelby Engine for $30K. Jeff Miller convinced me to go the Coyote route. His words of advice, "you know it's not a real Daytona right? go with a modern engine." We talked about the carb will come out of adjustment, cams are to aggressive leading to unspent fuel between 1200 and 3000 RPM, and the EFI systems use sensors that monitor the engine only after the fact so they are late to adjust. I plan to track the car a few times per year and I think that the coyote will take the punishment better and with variable timing it will have great street and track performance. My initial exploration of the coyote lead me to the Gen 3 and @edwardb seems to have the latest on that info to date so I am waiting to hear more. My brother, a real car guy is pushing for a 5.2L which lead to the idea of packing in a 5.2L Voodoo engine into this car. Might be insanely excessive so I am going to think on that one, plus there are serious technical issues with installing that engine in a crate type application. For one there is no computer designed to run that engine in the car. All that said I chose a coyote platform and which one will have to evolve.

    Anyway on to the thread.
    Last edited by P100DHG; 12-29-2018 at 11:07 PM.

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    edwardb's Avatar
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    Congrats on your kit order! Delivery four months away and already a build thread. Nice! Two comments about your order. Have you decided which transmission? TKO (5-speed) or T-56 (6-speed)? Seem to recall you mentioned considering a T-56. I'd be a little cautious about the IRS center section from FFR. Confirm what ratio they'd provide and whether that's the best fit with your intended transmission. The ratios between the TKO and T-56 are different enough IMO that they may require a different diff to be optimal. Not trying to take business away from FFR, but those are pretty easily available elsewhere for the same price (or less). Also TKO and T-56 require a different drive shaft. Similar comment about the wipers. I'd highly recommend the Specialty Power Windows WWK2 Complete Universal Wiper Drive Kit. That's what I found for my Coupe build. It's cheaper and (again IMO) much superior to the Lucas knock-off wiper kit FFR sells. I know the 50% off is attractive in this case. But read the multiple threads about setting up these wipers. Also not sure if they increase the blade and sweep for the much larger Coupe windshield compared to the Roadster. Don't sweat changing your order. You can make multiple changes (and many do) right up to the last couple weeks.

    You'll love the Coyote. I sure do. Looks like only a couple more weeks and the Gen 3 Coyote crate will be available from Ford Performance. Confirmed that earlier this week. I suspect you know the flat plane Voodoo will not be available as a crate motor, according to Ford. Guys are making their own by buying the various components. But not a simple or cheap exercise. The roughly 500 hp Gen 3 Coyote will motivate this car pretty aggressively to say the least. Power adders are available to bump it up a bunch more.
    Last edited by edwardb; 08-16-2018 at 06:33 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    Build Specs 1.0 & Some Thoughts

    Build Specs 1.0:

    I carefully chose my options. I might have revised no less than a dozen times. Here is what I ordered. If it looks like basically everything it almost is. The points I am still unsure of is the wilwood brakes (nice for the track) and the IRS vs the 3 link but IRS seems nice and modern.

    Complete Coupe Kit
    Powder Coating Gen 3 Coupe Chassis
    Body Cut Outs
    Low back Vintage Race Seats (will change for high backs at some point in build)
    IRS
    Center Section and Spindles
    Gen 3 Carpet Kit
    Side Window Components
    Coupe Nose Scoops
    Front and Rear Sway Bar
    Wilwood Front and Rear Brakes
    Koni Dual Adjustable Shocks
    GPS Gauges
    Halibrand 18" wheels
    Windshield wipers (might not install, will have to wait and see)
    Battery Cut off Switch
    Coyote Install Kit
    Coyote Headers
    Coyote Power Steering

    Now the wait and let the reading of the build manual a million times begin.

    UPDATE: BUILD CHANGED AGAIN FROM COYOTE TO 427 SBF SEE THREAD BELOW:
    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post344509



    Some Thoughts:

    The voodoo engine is likely off the table, though I havenít completely nixed the idea. The flat plane crank is what Iím after. After all we are building a race car why not give it a race style engine. That said itís very complicated. The software programming on the ECU is going to be in the thousands, money Iíd prefer to spend elsewhere.

    My plan is to get a Gen 3. I am in fact going to do a T56 magnum. These new gen 3 coyotes can rev quite high so I really want to go with something that can support it.

    I tried finding a 3.73 rear end but have failed to find one on the shelf. That's what the Boss 302 had in it. That said I drove the 2018 Mustang GT which has a variant of the Magnum according to Tremec and that is a equipped with a 3.55 and it was snappy. I would still prefer the 3.73 though. Any leads would be excellent!

    The wiper blade kit Iíll struggle with it will keep me entertained or frustrated or something. LOL. Again not sure I even intend to use them. In Los Angeles rain is a novelty these days.

    I started my build thread because hopefully this preliminary discussion helps someone and ME! LOL. Spoke to Ford the new Gen 3 Coyote part number is M-6007-M50C. MSRP $9500

    Any help with that rear diff would be appreciated. Thanks!
    Last edited by P100DHG; 12-29-2018 at 06:12 PM.

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    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P100DHG View Post
    The voodoo engine is likely off the table, though I haven’t completely nixed the idea. The flat plane crank is what I’m after. After all we are building a race car why not give it a race style engine. That said it’s very complicated. The software programming on the ECU is going to be in the thousands, money I’d prefer to spend elsewhere.

    My plan is to get a Gen 3. I am in fact going to do a T56 magnum. These new gen 3 coyotes can rev quite high so I really want to go with something that can support it.

    I tried finding a 3.73 rear end but have failed to find one on the shelf. That's what the Boss 302 had in it. That said I drove the 2018 Mustang GT which has a variant of the Magnum according to Tremec and that is a equipped with a 3.55 and it was snappy. I would still prefer the 3.73 though. Any leads would be excellent!

    The wiper blade kit I’ll struggle with it will keep me entertained or frustrated or something. LOL. Again not sure I even intend to use them. In Los Angeles rain is a novelty these days.

    I started my build thread because hopefully this preliminary discussion helps someone and ME! LOL. Spoke to Ford the new Gen 3 Coyote part number is M-6007-M50C. MSRP $9500

    Any help with that rear diff would be appreciated. Thanks!
    Good luck with the wipers. Don't say I didn't warn you or offer a better alternative.

    Crunch the numbers on the 3.55 and 3.73 diffs with the T-56. Especially with the several hundred higher redline on the Gen 3 Coyote (not that real world driving in these cars will find a 7,500 redline very often, trust me...). I think you'll find the 3.73 is the much better match, as I mentioned before. Ford Performance discontinued them some months ago and any that were out there on the shelf are gone. They're still routinely available in salvage. Since they're Torsen, they're more expensive than the usual clutch pack versions like all the rest. But that alone is another reason to try to find one. They're out there with low miles and probably for a good value. Just start looking and be ready to buy when you find something that meets your needs.

    Yes, that's the retail price of the Gen 3 Coyote. Of course, they aren't sold for for that much. The crate Coyotes are typically discounted approx 15%, control packs approx 25%. The exact details and numbers should be more widely available when it's officially released to the public in the next couple weeks.
    Last edited by edwardb; 08-23-2018 at 07:03 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    Rear Differential

    Paul (edwardb) has convinced me the torsen 3.73 is the right rear end ratio. I found one for $385 from LKQ a national used parts distributor with 27,000 miles on it and a 6 month warranty (which seems irrelevant) They transferred it to a closer location for me at no cost. LKQ said they would exchange it at no cost if my rear end shop didnít approve. LKQ refers to this part as a "carrier assembly" and they have several. Their price points seem completely random to the end consumer. Some are $1200 with more miles and some are $385 with less. According to LKQ it depends on how long they have had it in inventory and where in the country it's located. According to them all are in good drop in condition. Can't seem to go wrong here. I'll clean it up and use Por15 on it, it will be better then new.

    IMG_0064.jpg

    I took the rear end to Hoopers Rear End Inc. A very reputable shop in Los Angeles and Anthony gave it his blessing. Said ďyou got a good one here.Ē How much did he charge me you might ask $0. He sealed it back up for me and after insisting he charge me he said $20. Lol what a nice guy. Here is his info https://www.yelp.com/biz/hoopers-rear-end-sun-valley

    IMG_0067.jpg

    One major headache is that it was filthy and needed to be washed. Well itís got two openings for the axles and I didnít want to get water in them. So I brought in the brains. My wife suggested balloons! They worked great! I inflated the balloons inside the axle holes (thatís the technical term) to make a tight seal and pressure washed it. Surprisingly the balloons didnít pop and kept a strong seal.

    IMG_0089.jpg

    Now for the POR15. It was as simple as following the directions on the kit. Works great. Second coat is weird because the first coat covers so well that the second coat is hard to keep track of where I had applied it because its so black.

    IMG_0097.jpg

    One major item that just drives me nuts about this car is how ugly the interior is. I know it was a race car and intended to be a replica but one thing I intend to do between now and when I receive the kit is to iron out how I want my interior to look. I have looked at many hot rods, and Daytona replicas and come up with an idea of what I want it to look like. I will likely delete my carpet kit, I plan to do button in/ snap down floor mats (keeping them may prove to be better just to have the pattern, we'll see). I deleted the seats and took a $400 credit on my bill. I am in the process of narrowing my interior choices. I am thinking about powder coating every panel silver and use saddle leather for the seat covers I am planning on using Corbeau FX1 Pros for now (I saw someone's on the internet I really liked and will likely just copy them obviously I will give them credit once completed). I spoke with Marx at Lizard Skin he assured me that it can be applied outward facing and it can hold up to road and weather conditions so thats my current plan. My completion date is now Dec 8th so I've got time to start figuring all this out.

    Any comments or advice are always welcome and I am happy to answer questions about anything I've completed along the way.
    Last edited by P100DHG; 12-29-2018 at 03:10 PM.

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    Senior Member Clover's Avatar
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    Awesome find on the center section. I am going to look those guys up this weekend as well. I had been looking and kept coming back to a entire rear end for $1,000 plus shipping. I think you source will save me some effort. Where are you getting the spindles and knuckles from that you will need to go along with the center section? Are you just going to order those new from Ford?

    I think your interior will come out awesome if I am picturing it right. I really like the idea of the silver with the saddle leather snapped down. I had been thinking of doing a 33 hot rod and was going to do a similar thing in the hot rod. Good to hear that you can do Lizard skill on the underside of the car. I thought I had seen that done on a car show before but I was not sure it would hold up. I am looking forward to following you build once your kit gets to you.
    Gen III Type 65 Coupe Delivered 6/26/2018

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    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    So FFR sells the whole center section kit for $1499. Since I have my own rear differential now Factory Five is charging me $450 for the remaining required components. Huge savings.

    According to my phone conversation with Marx at Lizard Skin he said people use it as exterior application on off-road trucks. He seemed certain it could take the abuse. Weíll see, only time will tell.

    One more thing about the POR15 kit for $23 you could paint 5 of these differencials with it. Itís a tiny kit I was not impressed at first until I realized how little it takes and how amazing it covers

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    Quote Originally Posted by P100DHG View Post
    So FFR sells the whole center section kit for $1499. Since I have my own rear differential now Factory Five is charging me $450 for the remaining required components. Huge savings.

    According to my phone conversation with Marx at Lizard Skin he said people use it as exterior application on off-road trucks. He seemed certain it could take the abuse. We’ll see, only time will tell.
    Agreed. Great find and price for the center section. Especially since it's the Torsen version which is a more expensive piece than the standard clutch style version Factory Five provides.

    Of course Lizard Skin would say that. No surprise. It's a rough finish though. Just depends on what you want.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    Speaking of Torsen style. Hoopers told me 2 quarts of synthetic lube and no friction modifier because it doesn’t have clutches. I imagine he knows what he is talking about. Any thoughts here?
    Last edited by P100DHG; 09-01-2018 at 06:41 PM.

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    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P100DHG View Post
    Speaking of Torsen style. Hoopers told me 2 quarts of synthetic lube and no friction modifier because it doesn’t have clutches. I imagine he knows what he is talking about. Any thoughts here?
    I used the exact products from the Ford documentation: 3.2 pt Motorcraft SAE 75W-85 Premium Synthetic Hypoid Gear Lubricant XY-75W85-QL, 4.0 fl oz Motorcraft Additive Friction Modifier XL-3. I too am pretty certain the Torsen version doesn't need the friction modifier. But the Ford info didn't list any difference. Doubt it would hurt anything either way. But I also always worry about any warranty concerns if the instructions aren't followed exactly. In my case, it was a NIB diff, so did what they said.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    Build Specs 2.0 - Change of Engine

    So after all the coyote discussion. I've scrapped the plan and I am going to do a Small Block Ford (SBF) engine with EFI. FFR was nice enough to make the change. Had a very productive conversation with Blueprint Engines. Made the decision for 2 reasons.

    1. Factor #1 came about when I was talking with my brother about cars (we love to talk cars together) he made some comment about a replica with a dated engine and it got me thinking about other peoples perceptions of the coyote platform over time and how they might see this car in 10 years. In my short term thinking the Gen 2 coyote is discontinued. A more advanced engine has come along. The Gen 3 and by all accounts it a major improvement but frankly looking at Edwardb's build the gen 3 is off the table. It is just too much to bite off. I am not capable of taking the time learn how to alter the engine like he is and run my business and wrangle our 2 year old. Thus leaving me with the option of a gen 2 "a dated engine" (as my brother referred to it.) Additionally I felt pressure to buy the Gen 2 engine and transmission now because of supply concerns and didn't want to drop $15k on an engine and transmission and have it sit in my garage for a year while I put the car together, the warranty clock ticking and the money locked up.

    2. Factor 2 came about when a gentleman on this forum asked about the value of these cars and I posted my research. In that research I found a Daytona that sold for $30k with an old Mustang 4.6L engine and really there wasn't much of a difference between the cars that sold for $55k and $72k except for the engine. Though I am building the car for me I always think about the value of what I am doing. What will the car be worth once it's done. That's not the objective though to sell it. The objective would be my son takes his prom date to the dance in this car (safely). So, what would be the value of the car in 15 years with a Coyote engine? I don't have a crystal ball but my psychic tells me it's not going to be as valuable as a 427 regardless of the age of the block (just kidding on the psychic, it's intuition).

    I want to throw out a disclaimer. My no means do I disagree with anyone's choice of engine this is your car and I just love the fact we are all here talking about it. I am just sharing my thought process in the hopes it helps guide someone because frankly I almost cancelled my build because I got so frustrated by my confusion. Note, none of my decisions where based on what was period correct (though argument 2 might have some relevance to that).

    Updated: For continuity I am including the link to the thread regarding ordering the beating heart of this build. The Roush 427SR. I have learned a lot researching the SBF since my first posts and I am working out details on fitment as of right now. Likely will order (put a deposit down) before Christmas to lock in the price on the engine. Roush will hold the engine till I'm ready for it. Warranty starts 90 days after I receive it. I don't anticipate needing it for 6 months.

    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...mer-RPM-Intake

    Build on Brothers!

    -Danny
    Last edited by P100DHG; 12-29-2018 at 06:50 PM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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    Not going to argue or question your decisions. You've clearly thought this through and arrived at your decisions. But FWIW, several comments. The Gen 2 Coyote apparently still has about an 8 month supply on hand at Ford Performance. So they're not going to run out real soon. The Gen 3 Coyote installation I'm doing isn't altering the engine. What I'm doing, e.g. changing the oil pan and pickup, wiring, etc. is normally very straightforward and well documented. The main issue I'm having with the different oil pump is supposed to have a plug and play solution soon. I was just too early for it. A year from now, if that's your timeline, the Gen 3 Coyote will have multiple installations and all the details sorted out. Just like the Gen 2 is now. I find it interesting that you're worrying about the Coyote being a dated engine sometime in the future when the engine you're planning to use has its origins back in the 60-70-80's. Although agreed that is closer to the origin of the Coupe in the first place. Having said that, IMO the engine content between a SBF and Coyote is going to be a wash for the future value. Some will see value in a modern computer controlled engine. Some will see value in an engine more in line with the originals. But mainly future value is going to be based on condition of course, but then build quality and attention to detail. A well built car will command the best price. A poorly executed one not so much. Regardless of engine. This I believe was also one of the conclusions of the thread you started. I'd highly recommend taking these aspects into full account as you're thinking about future value and your build. Very difficult to compare sale prices based on content alone.

    OK, now carry on and have fun. That's the whole idea, right?
    Last edited by edwardb; 10-27-2018 at 09:49 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  16. #14
    TheBabyBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Not going to argue or question your decisions. You've clearly thought this through and arrived at your decisions. But FWIW, several comments. The Gen 2 Coyote apparently still has about an 8 month supply on hand at Ford Performance. So they're not going to run out real soon. The Gen 3 Coyote installation I'm doing isn't altering the engine. What I'm doing, e.g. changing the oil pan and pickup, wiring, etc. is normally very straightforward and well documented. The main issue I'm having with the different oil pump is supposed to have a plug and play solution soon. I was just too early for it. A year from now, if that's your timeline, the Gen 3 Coyote will have multiple installations and all the details sorted out. Just like the Gen 2 is now. I find it interesting that you're worrying about the Coyote being a dated engine sometime in the future when the engine you're planning to use has its origins back in the 60-70-80's. Although agreed that is closer to the origin of the Coupe in the first place. Having said that, IMO the engine content between a SBF and Coyote is going to be a wash for the future value. Some will see value in a modern computer controlled engine. Some will see value in an engine more in line with the originals. But mainly future value is going to be based on condition of course, but then build quality and attention to detail. A well built car will command the best price. A poorly executed one not so much. Regardless of engine. This I believe was also one of the conclusions of the thread you started. I'd highly recommend taking these aspects into full account as you're thinking about future value and your build. Very difficult to compare sale prices based on content alone.

    OK, now carry on and have fun. That's the whole idea, right?
    First off... great progress so far! Way ahead of the ball, that's the way to be! I'm going to chime in and piggy back Paul here... The Gen2 Coyote is powerful and well sorted. The Gen3 is going to be in a similar boat (lol) in the coming year. There are about 5 other Coyote variants (like my Boss, Voodoo, XS, Roush, etc)... the cars may change in value to some degree between these motors, but Gen1/2/3 you're really just splitting hairs. Aside from going from an NA engine to blown to turbo, etc, the differences aren't going to affect value THAT much. The more "plug and play" the engine is, the more likely I can see some one buying it, IMHO.

    If you were deciding between a carbureted 427, a 331 stroker and a Coyote... those are major differences. Essentially you're just taking the same cute girl out with a different dress, my friend. By the time the car is done, anything you run will be a few months, a year old, whatever. Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff. Also, don't break your back reinventing the wheel. Recipes work for a reason. God speed, no matter what you choose, it's going to be a hoot when it's done!

    Lastly, keep in mind your DIY skills. There's a huge difference between building this car and doing something like Paul. While he's incredible humble, understand he has a carnal knowledge of these builds and he's not a DIY guy, he's writing the DIY book.

    Most importantly, HAVE FUN! Can't wait to see it begin, hopefully I'm go-karting by then!

    Oh and SUBSCRIBED!
    Gen3 Coupe: BOSS 302/Coyote & T56 Build Thread - https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...733#post312733

    Arrival: 6/21/18 1st Go Kart: TBA Registered: TBA Painted: TBA Complete:TBA

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    Parts & Tools Ordered

    Per Edwardb I ordered the Moog ES2150RL Tie Rod End through amazon $18.39 prime shipping and extended holiday returns (not that I will need this but it's nice to have). I didn't like the idea of cutting the tie rods. This is a great solution. Grateful he is paving the way. Delivery on the Coupe is looking like end of January. My completion date is 1/12/2019. I'm starting to gather necessary tools from Harbor Freight and the internet that I don't have and parts that will be needed in the beginning stages. My goal is to have a well measured pace but not to rush through it. Just steady progress. I love the dash that forcefed1 came up with. Very very nice. Defiantly inspired by that.
    Last edited by P100DHG; 11-11-2018 at 07:04 PM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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    December 2018 Update

    Just to clarify something I was confused on and for those waiting for your kits and want to order stuff while you wait, here is some clarification to a problem I was trying to solve. The front wheel studs provided by factory five are 1/2"-20 (length is unknown by me but also irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion). The rear IRS hubs come with metric studs installed. Factory Five provides standard 1/2"-20 studs and 1/2" lug nuts. The manual requires you to press out the metric studs and install the standard 1/2"-20 studs by pressing them back in. If you intend to put wheel spacers on the rear (the style I used anyhow) than the 1/2"-20 studs provided that you will be reinstalling will be too long and make contact with the back of the wheel. Most people thread a bolt onto the stud, cut the stud to length with a grinder and back off the nut (thus cleaning up the threads). I ordered the Eibach Spacers from Speedway. Though the picture and description showed they came with shorter studs, they did not. They have since remove the picture. They were nice enough to give me a $30 credit for the inconvenience. (they offered, I did not ask for it).

    https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Eibac...rd,324913.html

    I called Eibach to try to clear up the discrepancy and spoke to someone (Tanner I believe) who said they'd call me back, never heard anything even after a follow up call back to them.

    I really don't want to cut the studs so I went ahead and ordered shorter studs on Amazon.

    https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-610-36...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

    IMG_1273.jpg

    To match the rear Wilwood rotors I bought VHT Satin Black Roll Bar and Chassis Paint

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    IMG_1274.jpg

    I am going to stick to thumbnail size pictures as much as possible to help condense the thread. My goal is to show the progress of the build and document it as closely as possible, try to document where I deviate from the directions (custom stuff), or where I see people may need clarification.
    Last edited by P100DHG; 12-29-2018 at 06:48 PM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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    Engine Ordered

    Engine ordered. Here is my engine build invoice from Roush.

    FF76EC88-270D-42CD-BF91-0F747CA585E2.jpeg

    I think the valve covers were a bit expensive but a nice touch. Mark said he would send me a video of the engine on the dyno once completed, which I will post. I’ll send final payment and they will ship when I’m ready to take delivery (hopefully sometime this summer). Should look very similar to this completed.

    A858ADA5-3946-4A57-8F8D-AC5F5D03CA50.jpeg

    Happy Holidays!
    Last edited by P100DHG; 12-22-2018 at 01:23 AM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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    Congratulations. That’s a beauty.
    -Steve
    MK IV #8901 - Complete kit, Coyote, TKO-600, IRS. Ordered 5/23/16, Delivered 7/14/16, First Start 8/13/17, First Go-Kart 10/22/17, Registered and Completed 10/18/18. Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...V-Coyote-Build Graduation Thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-Roadster-8901

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    Thought Capsule 1

    I am posting this as time capsule into my design thought process. My hope is I can reflect back and track my train of thought before I dive head in to the actual building process.

    Interior:
    I’ve been working on a design board for my interior. I have nailed down the interior seat color to a Saddle leather. It's going to look all race car but keep that high end feel. I am taking inspiration from Mike Dusold’s 67 Camaro. I am leaning toward directly replicating his seats (imitation is the highest form of flattery after all).

    IMG_0223.jpg

    Floor mats and door panels will match the seats. All interior panels will be powder coated silver for a high end finished look. The dash I’m still fighting with the design. Once the kit arrives I can make some cardboard templates and work on the arrangement of the vents and gauges. Better to figure this stuff out before I build it than realize I made an error and have to rebuild it.

    Exterior:
    I am strongly considering the same deep blue with white stripes as the Factory Five #1 car. Should complement the interior. I am definitely cutting out the rear body vents.

    A2-CAM10002.jpg

    My brother is pushing me to replicate this paint job. AMAZING but I am not sure I want a green car. Here is a great article on a green and yellow Daytona

    DSC_8296_David-Hart-and-Olivier-Hart_1964-Shelby-Cobra-Daytona_2017-July-28.jpg

    Engine Bay:
    I may have the powder coater do all the panels in satin black. I think this will play off the polished engine and satin black valve covers well. Problem is the frame is gloss black... . Gloss black is an option Paul B's looks great. I thought about silver for all the engine bay panels... I could use some suggestions here.

    Wheels:
    I bought the FFR 18” wheels. Might powder coat or paint them a lighter color to pop better or go with a new wheel setup. I spoke to Joey at BBI Autosport (they do work on my brother’s car) and he advised just to get the wheels from FFR and do the full suspension setup with them before considering different wheels. I really like this bone white color and am considering painting the wheels this color if I don't replace them all together or paint to match the interior silver powder coat to tie it all together.

    ImageFetch__9_.jpg
    Last edited by P100DHG; 12-24-2018 at 12:00 AM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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    Paid Invoice

    Trying to keep all the major records in one place. Should help those researching buying a kit.

    Invoice.png

    My next post should be in February with pictures of the kit in my garage.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

  26. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by P100DHG View Post
    ...Problem is the frame is gloss black...
    Actually the frame will be a matte black. They changed from gloss several months ago


    Wheels:...I really like this bone white color and am considering painting the wheels this color if I don't replace them all together...
    Ever since seeing them on Gary Chaney's Gen1 Coupe way back in 2001 or so I've really like the look of white wheels on a blue Coupe but you need to consider whether you'd be willing to put up with the brake dust that will be on them after every drive.

    Good luck with the build!

    Jeff

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    Your build thread is great and I’ve been going through it in my efforts to spec my project. My question relates to the IRS and the advantages over the 3 link standard? I’m planning Coyote with T56. Also are the double adjustable Konis worth the extra investment in your opinion? Thanks for any help. Again your thread is great.

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  29. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher Lake Hot Rods View Post
    Your build thread is great and I’ve been going through it in my efforts to spec my project. My question relates to the IRS and the advantages over the 3 link standard? I’m planning Coyote with T56. Also are the double adjustable Konis worth the extra investment in your opinion? Thanks for any help. Again your thread is great.
    I can’t speak to IRS vs 3 link I just assumed that every modern sports car has IRS and this is a 400-500hp car that weighs 2300lbs and no traction control, it could use every technological advantage available.

    The Coyote T56 is the right combo. As it turns out there is no 351w/302 + T56 + IRS drive shaft supplied by FFR. According to Dave B. it would have to be custom made. So my final build is going to be and SBF with a TKO600

    As for the suspension I can speak to that. Dual adjustable suspension can be dialed in so that you have ride comfort and performance. It’s not a one size fits all like single adjustable suspension. It doesn't have to be rock hard to give you great cornering or a soft and mushy to give you a comfortable ride. The shock can be dialed in to give you comfort and performance. I intend to take my completed car to a suspension expert to dial it in perfectly, and set the alignment up for great performance (not build it but tune it). This is the one expert besides a paint shop I intend to use.

    The shocks were not actually $1800 they were a $900 upgrade because I got the 50% options summer sale and I felt like it was worth the money after speaking to experts about how much it would cost if I made the wrong choice and had to buy those from scratch. That said what did sting were those wildwood brakes and they just better be unbelievable because if they aren't I will have really sacrificed the look of the car I wanted see below. Plus on top of the $3k I had to pay for the upgrade I had to pay $130 from them to ship from Wildwood which is 30 min from my house. People familiar with them attest they are worth the money.

    This project can snowball for example. The brakes. Experts will say, "gotta have great brakes if you're putting 400hp to the rear wheels of a 2300lb car" so I went with the Wilwoods. I wanted to put the 15" wheels and those awesome radials on the car but when I tried to find tires the shops would ask me about the build. The first thing they would say was "those tires are going to give you horrible performance get bigger wheels so we can put a modern tire on that car. It's a performance car!" not to mention that the wildwood 12.88" brakes can't fit under 15" wheels so I'd have to put on smaller brakes. So if I put smaller brakes on the car, and 15" wheels I would never be able to get the full potential out of it or if I put smaller brakes on my car and 18" wheels and keep a set of 15" as a second set I still would have to settle for smaller brakes. No right answers here it's all personal preference and if you can't tell I got sucked in by "expert" opinions. I tried to make my decisions as educated as possible.
    Last edited by P100DHG; 02-10-2019 at 07:20 PM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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    Thank you. This is very helpful. I’m reading everything I can on the forum to get ready.

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    Good discussion and feedback. Two follow-up comments. I've had solid axle and IRS. Highly recommend IRS. It rides better and with the 2015+ Mustang version it's also the highest performance. Does add +/- couple thousand to the build cost, which obviously can be a factor. Also depends on how you plan to use the car. A solid axle is generally a better choice for hard launches, like drag passes. But for everything else, the IRS is a great choice. You won't regret it. Nobody likes to talk about it because they think they'll never sell their car. But also adds to the desirability and resale value.

    As far as the driveshaft, if Factory Five doesn't offer a length that fits your engine/trans/suspension combination, that doesn't have to steer your decision. A driveshaft shop can easily shorten an existing driveshaft. Or a brand new custom length can be ordered from a place like Denny's Driveshafts.
    Last edited by edwardb; 12-31-2018 at 07:05 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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    Another item to think about, the rear body mounts in the vent area so if you cut them out the body mount will have to be modified.
    David W
    Mkll 4874 built in 2004
    Gen 3 coupe #16 under construction

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Williamson View Post
    Another item to think about, the rear body mounts in the vent area so if you cut them out the body mount will have to be modified.
    David W
    Whaaaaaat??? Missed this one. Anyone got here? What’s the procedure? No wonder FFR won’t cut them out. They didn’t say why though...
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by P100DHG View Post
    Whaaaaaat??? Missed this one. Anyone got here? What’s the procedure? No wonder FFR won’t cut them out. They didn’t say why though...
    That is correct; the rear body fasteners are in the simulated vents. Paint the indentations and hardware black then install the mesh and they'll appear to be open until you look closely.

    Jeff

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  36. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by P100DHG View Post
    Whaaaaaat??? Missed this one. Anyone got here? What’s the procedure? No wonder FFR won’t cut them out. They didn’t say why though...
    Putting the body mounts under the vent screens is a rather clever way IMO of hiding the rear body mounting bolts. As has already been pointed out, they're not functional. Even if you cut them open, not much is going to happen. There's an aluminum panel on the other side that walls off the hatch area. Carpeted if you're doing that. The Coupe that Factory Five wind tunnel tested had vents behind the rear wheels. But not on the back. https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-ne...esting-report/
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    That is correct; the rear body fasteners are in the simulated vents. Paint the indentations and hardware black then install the mesh and they'll appear to be open until you look closely.

    Jeff

    Okay got it makes sense thanks guys!! Great clarification.

    - Danny


    PS just for reference here is what we are talking about for those following along. This is the only reference I could find in the Gen 3 Coupe manual Rev 4F at all, just a picture with no explanation.
    297B3B40-0B85-4935-95A9-E3EB143E9DC8.jpeg
    Last edited by P100DHG; 12-31-2018 at 03:56 PM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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    Build Day 1 - Bolting Wildwood Rotors Together

    Wow a super awesome package arrived on Friday!!

    IMG_2251.jpg

    Guess what!?!? This marks the official start of the build! I wasted no time getting to work. Started by nesting AKA rearranging my garage. Worked all day Saturday on that and then started in on the Wildwood Disc Brakes on Sunday

    DO6A1296.jpg

    I torqued the bolts to spec 155in/lbs and used required locktite and marked each one with a paint pen and a line extending from the top of the bolt to the rotor so if they move it's easy to see on inspection

    IMG_1396.jpg. DO6A1299.jpg

    I was under the impression that the calipers needed to be assembled but at first glance it looks completely assembled. Check that off the list. Here is one initial hiccup. Wilwood very nicely explains that the .032 safety wire that is required is "cheap" but they also fail to include any of the required "cheap" safety wire... So that has to be ordered.... So make sure you buy that before you start your build I bought this Malin - MS20995C Stainless Steel Safety Wire / Lockwire | .032" Dia. There were some other thoughts but I can't remember what they were at the moment so I'll update when they come to mind.

    If anyone needs the wildwood instructions for whatever reason I can upload pictures of them. Safety Wire Instructions can be found here: http://www.wilwood.com/pdf/datasheets/ds386.pdf

    Once the wire comes and my safety wire pliers I bought arrive I'll get started on that. Kit completion date is this Saturday then the wait for Stewart. Though I am not in a rush to spend another $2,000 for shipping to California so I can be patient. LOL.

    Just for reference assembling all 4 took me 1 hour and 15 minutes. I threaded each bolt on half way to confirm alignment of the rotor to the hat before torquing anything down so this technique took a bit longer.
    Last edited by P100DHG; 03-17-2019 at 01:10 AM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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    Safety Wire Wildwood Rotors - Day 2

    Just as a piece of information installing the safety wire on the first rotor took me 40 minutes to complete. Mind you it was my first one and I am not trying to pump these out but it goes quickly once you get it dialed in. I want to share some tips or instructions since there really isn't a guide to how to do it, just a picture of the completed product. Also if you are exploring buying a kit it's nice to see peoples approach and fill in the gaps of the instruction manual so you know what you're getting yourself into. I like to build everything in my head before putting my hands on it.

    Step 1: I took my .032" safety wire and measured out 14". After threading it through the bolt perpendicular to the rotor, I grabbed it and bent it up at an angle with a set of needle nose pliers.

    IMG_1509.jpg

    Step 2: It's really hard to pull the wire through with a needle nose. It's simply not going to do the job so I attached my safety wire pliers (these are the one's I bought on Amazon they are great) and pulled it though

    IMG_1510.jpg

    Step 3: This part is tricky. Where to place your pliers so don't over twist or under twist the wire. What I mean by that, is not to twist the wire so far that you have to untwist it to get it into the next bolt or too short and you find that the twist doesn't make it all the way to the second bolt hole. I hope that makes sense. If you line up your pliers like so (see picture below) you will have the perfect amount of twisted wire between bolts. I attached my pliers to the wire just a few millimeters past the bolt hole. This took me a couple attempts to get it perfect but I took a picture to mark my distance past the hole once I got it right and it came out great.

    IMG_1508.jpg

    Step 4: Thread the wire through the second bolt hole and the other wire around that back side as shown in the picture below. Then take both wires and thread them under the twisted wire. If you don't the wire that wraps around the back of the bolt will want to jump up above the bolt and you will find yourself struggling to get it to sit back down.

    IMG_1507.jpg

    Step 5: With the wire perpendicular to the twisted wire as seen in the picture above. Go ahead and twist it in this position. As the wire begins to twist and tighten soften the 90 degree angle (perpendicular angle) to a 45 degree angle and cut the excess with a snip. I cut about 3-4" of excess wire off.

    IMG_1513.jpg

    I thought about doing this without the safety wire pliers. My advice is don't. The pliers make the results so easy and so professional it's well work the money. Here are the tools I used to complete the job

    IMG_1514.jpg
    Last edited by P100DHG; 01-10-2019 at 11:39 PM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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    Baby in the Nursery

    Things are getting real! Stewart is picking it up on Monday and I should have it around February 8th 2019! Now I just have to think about what I want to name it.

    IMG_2330.jpg
    Last edited by P100DHG; 01-25-2019 at 02:49 PM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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    Coupe #138 DELIVERY DAY

    I know everyone has seen these type of photos but I don't want to buck the trend.

    IMG_2375.jpg

    Here she is in the garage

    IMG_2381.jpg

    It comes with a castle of boxes

    IMG_2384.jpg

    The boxes are numbered and correspond to a parts list. Each box is organized into categories. One box will have the front suspension parts and all the related nuts and bolts and another the gas tank and all the related parts, nuts and bolts and so on. I am impressed with the organization. I had expected a giant box of nuts and bolts and several more with parts scattered throughout and have to sift through and figure out what was what (this is how my son's play structure was), I am throughly impressed. I am going to store most of the boxes in a garage I have down the street so I organized a google sheet this morning that I can search what boxes are where. It came with a written box contents list but I am going to ask FFR for the parts list and box content list in the form of spreadsheet if one exists so I can search it easily. But my Table of Contents as I am calling my google sheet should be fine. Here comes inventory...

    I have to make my first decision which is races vs street height. I want to do race of course but I am concerned the hood won't be able to open all the way without being jacked up. I am waiting on FFR for their answer on this.

    Just to throw a huge thank you to the Stewart Transportation Driver who was the nicest guy! What a blast he made it and he was so patient with my little son running about. My son was more excited than I was. LOL

    IMG_1852.jpg
    Last edited by P100DHG; 02-23-2019 at 12:14 AM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

  42. #35
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    Congratulations on your Coupe delivery! That's awesome and you're in for an interesting and fun build. I think I've offered this advice before, but I'll do it again. Unless you're building a dedicated race version, use the street height. As I recall, Factory Five offered the same advice. Just this week, mine came off the lift and is on the ground for the first time. I've got the ride height set and I'm finishing up the alignment before starting to fit the body. I used the street height, and let me tell you this thing is low. At race height, you'll be catching driveways with even the slightest transitions or angles. Don't even think about speed bumps. Those things are enough of a problem even at the street height. And don't just think of that as an absolute measurement, e.g. the chassis height. It's also the approach angle and the Coupe has a long nose. I've caught the nose on my Roadster a couple times when I didn't expect it, and it's shorter. Doesn't exactly make your day. This picture is from earlier today. Don't know if it helps. But this is street height. It's low.

    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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  44. #36
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    Front Suspension

    Well what a great start to the project. After delivery and an extreme amount of organization; I stored most of the boxes I wouldn't use in the first 25% of the project in a garage off site. I took the nose off and and loaded everything up.

    IMG_1810.jpg IMG_1826.jpg

    So I got building and I quickly realized the the instructions from Factory Five are a guide rather than a hard rule book. So I hope I can do the filling in and help the guide be more precise. So lets begin. First things first. Get out the HAMMER! I was surprised this was the first step, but you've got to pound out the rubber & metal bushings from the rack. One popped right out and the other had difficultly, so I sprayed WD40 on it and it helped it slide out. Didn't want to contaminate the metal so I cleaned off the WD40 and inserted the new bushings supplied by FFR. I decided on street height to avoid future headaches. Insert that power steering rack and bolt it down. But wait... Mine was flawed. Thankfully I had taken a picture before install. One of the pressure lines was kinked. Never the less I installed it and sent the pictures of the before and after install to FFR. New pressure lines are on the way from FFR at some point. I'm far from needing them so no rush. Their promise is good enough for me.

    IMG_1831.jpg IMG_1834.jpg

    The lower control arms went on smooth and so did the shocks. The upper control arms were a head scratcher. Following the direction here just isn't the way to go so let me rewrite them. Referencing page 73, the directions say "Remove one of the inner bolts from the upper control arms and wrap the cross shaft of the arm around behind the coil-over." Do yourself a favor here and remove both inner bolts. The way my frame was welded together it is so tight the cross shaft wouldn't go in. By removing both bolts you can work with just the cross shaft and instead of inserting it directly into its mounting holes I had to slide it in close to the frame and work it outward with an orange plastic mallet until the holes lined up. When one mounting bolt hole lines up put the bolt in and work the other side till your other bolt slides in.

    Now that the upper control arm is back together I installed the spindles and torqued to spec. After attaching the spindle to the lower control arm I moved to the upper control arm. 2 issues here not covered in the manual. The first is you need a 1/2" hardened washer between the castle nut and the spindle (Jeff Kleiner recommended). It's not provided so put it on your Home Depot list and while you’re at it buy some Emery Cloth I'll get to why later. So after you install the washer and the castle nut on the upper control arm attach the spindle and torque to 75 ftlbs. GOTCHA!!! Guess what! Your 1/2" Harbor Freight Torque wrench won't fit!

    7A19578C-B34E-43DB-AE1A-863ACEE06AE1.jpg

    The general consensus was when you torqued that lower castle nut affixing the spindle to the lower control arm you felt what 80-110ftlbs feels like. I torqued mine to 95 and 90 respectively because the castle nut has to line up with the cotter pin so it's unlikely you will get the exact same specs on both right and left sides of the car. 95ftlbs in this particular angle felt like my forearm was going to snap in half so I used a regular 3/8" ratchet and I torqued it to what I felt like was 75ftlbs. I'll get a 3/8" torque wrench down the road and confirm it just to be sure but I am confident it's right. Again the castle nut has to line up so it might be 75+ ftlbs but definitely 75ftlbs. Ouch!

    57223287270__F90825F0-3653-46B2-B7BA-6C381437B731.jpg

    So now that the spindle is attached I felt like this next part was a big milestone. The front hubs. I mean the car is going to have studs which means it starts to really look like a car and things spin! The driver side went on smoothly and I torqued the hub nut to 250ftlb. No issues. Then I did the passenger side. Here is where things went sideways. Also not in the manual. Can you believe that they don't include when **** goes wrong in the manual!!!! Well I started to slide the hub on to the spindle about 3/4 - 1" and it seized up. I am telling you it wouldn't move at all. The manual says on page 78, "The hub is a snug fit on the spindle and may require a light tap with a soft mallet to get in place" DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR AND DON'T TAP IT. I did what I felt was a light tap (I let my 2.5 year old tap it actually so it was a light tap) and it made the situation so much worse! It was clear to me that it wasn't going on at this point so it had to come off. Well 30 minutes of coercing later I got it off. Now what... I called Factory Five and they recommended freezing the spindle in my freezer to contract the metal so the hub would slide on... I was like WHAT?!? Instead I did what any smart person would do and I asked people here. DUH! We have PAUL, HELLO! LOL. Remember that Emery Cloth I told you about, go get it out and start sanding that spindle! Go through the coarse, medium and fine. Totally worried about the same situation I got some high performance synthetic grease (a recommendation by Sigurd) and I put a light coat on the spindle and on the hub and it slid right on! Disaster averted!

    IMG_1875.jpg

    Just as a side reference I marked with a paint pen the position of each bolt after torquing it, so that I know if they moved (this is common). But what I also did was write the actual torque spec right on the bolt. That way there is no question what it was torqued to. Also for future maintenance it will leave me referring to the manual less often. (Hopefully this won't be coming apart in the next few decades.

    So just to give a little back story here. My wife and I were considering moving from our starter home (literally the best home ever!) into something more permanent and larger. We decided to hold off so I bought this kit car to keep me occupied until we were ready to buy a new home. Well as luck would have it we found something and now I have 60 days (the escrow period) to make this a roller (likely without hydraulic brakes, hopefully an E-brake) in some way so I can get it onto a tow truck to move it to the new house (should everything go well with the escrow...) Im not interested in any shortcuts on the build and the timeline seems manageable, but kinda hilarious that this car has to be shipped again only 2 months after getting it. Fingers crossed on the new house. Not counting my ducks until they hatch though.
    Last edited by P100DHG; 02-23-2019 at 02:29 AM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

  45. #37
    Junior Member johnny cobra's Avatar
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    Hi I hope your move goes well . and you get the Coupe get rolling ...

    John.

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  47. #38
    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    Overcoming Obstacles

    So I will admit I didn't fully comprehend the hand built nature of this car. Not so much from my side obviously but from Factory Five's side. This isn't a problem but what I've found is prepare for some home-brew engineering when constructing this car. I'll be honest I thought everything would fit perfectly without any issues and for the most part it does but there are some fitment issues, but all can be over come with some ingenuity.

    Rear Center Section / Differential
    After finishing the vast majority of the front suspension I turn my attention to the rear suspension. Installing the rear differential was first, I jacked it up into place. I found that once it was up there that a ratchet strap was helpful to create a sling so I could wiggle it into place. When doing so I found that the driver-side front mount was out of alignment. After getting 3 of 4 bolts in (the passenger-side front and both rear bolts) I couldn't line up the driver-side. I put a wood block on my jack and attempted to jack up the ear to no avail. The whole car was lifting up and I was still out of alignment.

    IMG_1879.JPEG

    I needed a second set of hands, so I called in reinforcements and my father-in-law came over. We battled with the center section alignment for at least an hour trying to figure out how to get it to align but little was changing the status quo. What we came up with was a strap from the roll bar, down through the transmission tunnel and wrapped it directly around the "ear" of the differential that was out of alignment. We slowly ratcheted the strap tighter and tighter until it came into alignment. What an amazing sense of accomplishment! I unfortunately didn't take a picture of this but if you look at Paul's post here it looked like this.

    Rear Control Arms
    With a bit of tapping the control arms went in nicely, but when I was ready to mount the rear spindles. I realized something... The control arms were too narrow, they needed to be spread apart about 1/32 of an inch. Factory Five recommended trying to bend them out with a vise grip but that was off the table for me. No way was I going to be able to muscle 1/4" thick steel into place. This is a great lesson, I just stepped away from it. I cleaned up and took a 24 hour break. Last night at 2am I awoke to the solution. I wanted something that would give me precisely what I needed. This morning at 7:30am I went straight to work rummaging through mason jars of bolts. I found one that would barely work. This is what I came up with:

    IMG_1972.jpeg

    I ran the bolt through the mount of the lower control arm and placed two jam nuts on it. I slid the bolt through to the other side and moved the nuts opposite one another to the far ends of the bolt. By tightening one and loosening the other it forced the steel to spread apart just enough. It worked like a charm and the spindle slipped right in. I had to do the same for the toe adjustment.

    What I realized from these two experiences is that without these small bits of home-brew engineering the project wouldn't be as fun. I mean these little battles make the whole thing more exciting. Now truthfully I wish I didn't feel like I had a time crunch to get this done but that is the nature of the situation I am in right now and getting the wheels on so I can roll this onto a tow truck is my #1 priority. I will inevitably need to go back and really dial it all in. I am writing notes of every bolt left untorqued and every fitting and jam nut left loose but even then it's concerning me I could miss something so tonight I am going to carefully flag with painters tape everything that needs to be addressed.
    Last edited by P100DHG; 03-03-2019 at 02:38 PM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

  48. #39
    Senior Member
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    yes a hand built car .... some adjustment required. I often say if it was easy everyone would have one, all part of the fun. What you did to open up the ears is common.
    David W
    Mkll 4874 built in 2004
    Gen 3 coupe #16 under construction

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  50. #40
    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    More on Rear Suspension

    I finished and torqued all the rear suspension to spec. I have it roughly aligned. The alignment shop can handle the rest. There are some discrepancies on the torque setting of the center section. The center section instructions state 100ftlbs which is what I used but the torque spec page says 129 ftlbs. What’s the consensus? FFR said use the appendix not the instructions. Anyway I’m feeling pretty good right now about where I am sitting.

    72196597-815F-4390-8672-C1DA04682353.jpg

    Looks like the studs I bought off amazon are working well. The downside to them, as is the downside to trimming the stud is that if I choose to swap the wheels at some point down the road I am going to be forced to change them because I’d likely order a wheel with the offset built in, thus negating the need for a spacer and a shorter stud. I’ll be keeping the longer studs that came with the kit. That said, installing them is going to require disassembling the entire rear brakes and hubs, no small task. I am overall impressed with the quality of the spacers, their fit and finish is worth the money. More on how they turned out later.

    E5E7E858-5ABB-4E7A-A662-82AAFAB718CC.jpg

    It’s been a very productive and expensive week. All the parts came back from powder coat and they are a perfect match to the satin frame. All the loose parts and door frames (30 items in total) cost $350. I’ll have another batch as I discover stuff I missed to send out I’m sure. Additionally I got the tires mounted on the wheels and they are awesome. Toyo Proxies R888Rs 315 in the rear and 255 up front. I know a lot of guys are doing 275s in the front but I didn’t want to put too much tire on the front considering how sticky the rubber is on these tires. Sometimes too much front tire can strain the steering system and become darty on roads with ruts especially with tires this sticky. They are so badass. I have 35 x 12.5s on my 2018 GMC Sierra HD Denali with a 4” lift and those 315s are definitely as wide if not wider. The tires cost $1200 (I’ve got a guy) happy to share info if you are in SoCal.

    0F162B61-B721-4D1D-BC5E-050311A3C0F0.jpeg

    Finishing up the rear brakes I opted to go ahead and install the hand brake and cables. Since our current driveway has a pretty good slope and our new driveway does as well I think having a hand brake would be prudent for loading it on to a tow truck and into the garage for the anticipated house move. I ran into the same problem as Paul. The Dorman cables felt like they were going to be too short to reach the clevis. I over came this without an extension actually. By installing one side only and pulling the hand brake and releasing 3 times and doing the same for the other side I found enough slack to install both cables. With both installed I pulled the hand brake to the third notch and released 3 times. At that point I found enough slack to remove the cables from the clevis and tighten the clevis till I felt it had enough thread to be safe and strong. I found this to set the pads well and the rotors move with relative ease aside from the resistance from the center section.

    IMG_2089.jpg

    I too had an issue with the Dorman cable being too long to fit under the Wilwood brake mounting position and need to trim it slightly. I did find I needed to slightly widen the slot on the Wilwood hand brake cable mounting adapter. I did this using my drill press, an XY table and a milling head/bit.


    So items to accomplish before the anticipated house move would be:
    1. Install the sway bars (not crucial)
    2. Mount the wheels (critical)
    3. Install the steering (seems like a good idea)
    Last edited by P100DHG; 03-16-2019 at 10:04 PM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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