Newbie Looking for Where to Start

[wltrmtty]

Hello,
I'm a newbie and am considering building a MkIV Roadster. I have some mechanical skills, but am definitely not a gear head. I'm looking at building an old school sort of car - 302 in the 350HP range - so that when you lift the hood you would see what might have been in a 1965 Cobra. I already have a 2017 GT350, so I don't need a monster car, just something that handles well and has some zip.

I've been spending some time on the build threads and forum and, I must say, I'm a little overwhelmed. It would be nice to be able to read some automotive background material.
Do you have any recommended reading to get me up to speed on engine/drive train and suspension? I already have three books; Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners... by Carroll Smith; How to Rebuild Small-Block Ford Engines by Tom Monroe (HP Books); and Ford Engine Buildups edited by Evan J. Smith (HP Books). NOTE: I will be buying a crate engine.

I've also seen some "How to Build a Cobra" books on the web. Can you recommend any of these?

Thanks!

Terry

[David Hodgkins]

Terry,

The build school at Mott community college + this forum + getting out to see several in person will give you all the confidence you need to build your dream.

The 2 roadsters I built - with a LOT of help from the forum - are the first two cars I've ever built.

Both of my builds utilized crate 302's.




Are you going modern or old school? I'm a fan of both!



I'm sure others will chime in. Where are you located?

Welcome to the forum!

[wltrmtty]

Wow, beautiful cars. Thank you for your response. I will definitely attend the build school, but don't want to do that until after I've done more research (so I can ask more intelligent questions) and when I'm closer to my build start (so I don't forget everything I learned). I'm anticipating starting in the 2020 time frame. I'm located in SE Wisconsin.

[edwardb]

Welcome! The books you've cited are OK. But depending on what you're planning, if your overwhelmed might be too much. Are you really planning on overhauling an engine? If so, study away. But there are lots of build options that don't involve overhauling your own engine. At least as a DIY project. Engine mods too can be a little intimidating. As far as the book on Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, OK too. But again if you follow the kit instructions, everything is supplied with a complete kit. So no need necessarily to overdose there either. The How to Build Cobra Kit Cars by D. Brian Smith (available on Amazon) is decent. But much like many build threads (mine included...) shows a lot of options and mods that aren't mandatory. Just depends on what you want. 100% agree on the build school. Many attend for just the reasons you mention. Also highly recommend spending the $10 and downloading a build manual from Factory Five's website. That should keep you busy for a while. The base kit manual is geared toward a donor build, so lots in there about that. Although many non-donor builds have come from base kits. Not to confuse the issue. The complete kit manual is geared toward an all new build. Choose the one that is most appropriate. By all means, study build threads on here. Also ask around in your area and see as many in person as you can. Talk to the builders/owners. We're usually happy to share. Get rides if you can. You'll learn as much from that as anything probably. Good luck

[wltrmtty]

Thanks, edwardb, yours is one of the build threads I've been following. I downloaded a build manual from the FFR site and find myself working between your (and other) build thread and the manual. I'm starting to get the all-caps abbreviations down, which is a big help. I'm going with a crate engine - no overhauls for me - but those manuals give me a feel for what I'm looking at. My plan is to go with a complete kit and crate engine. As I look at the equipment lists of the Graduation posts, I think, "Holy Cow, I have never heard of this stuff." It's a new and different world, but I like learning/research and working with my hands.

Thank you for the suggestions and I'm enjoying your #8674 Build thread, although I'm only on page 3.

[Jdav]

Thanks, edwardb, yours is one of the build threads I've been following. I downloaded a build manual from the FFR site and find myself working between your (and other) build thread and the manual. I'm starting to get the all-caps abbreviations down, which is a big help. I'm going with a crate engine - no overhauls for me - but those manuals give me a feel for what I'm looking at. My plan is to go with a complete kit and crate engine. As I look at the equipment lists of the Graduation posts, I think, "Holy Cow, I have never heard of this stuff." It's a new and different world, but I like learning/research and working with my hands.

Thank you for the suggestions and I'm enjoying your #8674 Build thread, although I'm only on page 3.

Prior to my build, my gear head experience was limited to changing a tire and maybe doing an oil change once when I was a kid. If you want to do this, are open to advice and can maintain your focus, it’s not that hard. As mentioned above, reading the manual and build threads will get you most of what you need. Add a few of the members wealth of knowledge and willingness to answer questions and it is nothing to be intimidated by.

[initiator]

You've got to eat the elephant one bite at a time. If you look at the whole project, it can get overwhelming quickly.

[FlyingCobra]

If you're going to be buying a crate engine, then that makes it a lot simpler. FFR has a relationship with BluePrint that seems to be a preferred vendor, although there are plenty of others out there as well. 350 HP out of a 302 is plenty attainable.

To make things easier, you probably want to consider a complete kit. I went with the base kit largely because I enjoy the fun of making all the design decisions myself (I'm an engineer, design decisions are what I do for a living). Then all you need to worry about sourcing are the engine, transmission, and rear end. Since you already know what you want for engine, that makes things simpler.

Not to rush you, but FFR has a sale that's ending at the end of the month on options. I just made some adjustments to my order yesterday that got me over the $4k in options mark, which got me a 30% discount off my options. I'm sure there will be more sales, though.

[cnutting]

I bought the engine rebuild book and the how to build cobra kit car book. Good to pass the time while waiting for your kit to show but most of my questions were answered here on the forum. If you can follow instructions, understand how parts should fit together, know how to break down problems into simpler pieces you'll be fine. The most important skill is knowing when to stop, take a break and ask questions. I think it was Dirty Harry that said, "a man's gotta know his limitations".

I have a rebuilt 289 in my car, puts out about 350hp and it's very easy to drive around town and plenty fast when you hit the loud pedal getting on the highway.

[wltrmtty]

You've got to eat the elephant one bite at a time. If you look at the whole project, it can get overwhelming quickly.

Good advise. I can see how it could be overwhelming.

[wltrmtty]

If you're going to be buying a crate engine, then that makes it a lot simpler. FFR has a relationship with BluePrint that seems to be a preferred vendor, although there are plenty of others out there as well. 350 HP out of a 302 is plenty attainable.

To make things easier, you probably want to consider a complete kit. I went with the base kit largely because I enjoy the fun of making all the design decisions myself (I'm an engineer, design decisions are what I do for a living). Then all you need to worry about sourcing are the engine, transmission, and rear end. Since you already know what you want for engine, that makes things simpler.

Not to rush you, but FFR has a sale that's ending at the end of the month on options. I just made some adjustments to my order yesterday that got me over the $4k in options mark, which got me a 30% discount off my options. I'm sure there will be more sales, though.

Thanks FlyingCobra, I am definitely going the complete kit route. I wish I could start now, but we'll be moving to southwest Missouri in 2020 and I plan on starting the project, then. So, now is a good time to learn. I really wish I had started a few years ago so I could have gotten in on the 20th Anniversary kt - those are so cool. Thanks for the encouragement!

[wltrmtty]

I bought the engine rebuild book and the how to build cobra kit car book. Good to pass the time while waiting for your kit to show but most of my questions were answered here on the forum. If you can follow instructions, understand how parts should fit together, know how to break down problems into simpler pieces you'll be fine. The most important skill is knowing when to stop, take a break and ask questions. I think it was Dirty Harry that said, "a man's gotta know his limitations".

I have a rebuilt 289 in my car, puts out about 350hp and it's very easy to drive around town and plenty fast when you hit the loud pedal getting on the highway.

Cnutting, I agree that this Forum is excellent and provides the best up-to-date information. Plus, I must say, it's a truly considerate and respectful community. Good family folks.

[phileas_fogg]

Hi Terry!

Welcome to the community. Like Jdav, my automotive experience was changing tires & occasionally changing oil. To get the book learning part of my automotive education out of the way, I read EVERY post on the Roadster sections of this and the "other" forum for two years. I bookmarked a ton of build logs, as well as threads addressing well-know problems (such as door latches, fitting the body, wiring...). I also created a file of lessons learned (PM me your e-mail and I'll send it to you).

While I was getting book smart, I spent a fair amount of time thinking about what I planned to do with the car. That, I think, is the best thing you can do. When it came time to order my kit, I knew just what I wanted.

With my kit ordered I went to Build School. By that time I had enough background education to ask questions that directly pertained to my build. Build School is FANTASTIC! You can ask the detailed questions that only people who have built these cars can answer (for instance, how do I determine whether to use NiCop, stainless, or parts store hard line?).

Then you just jump in the deep end and start swimming. Do a single task each day you work in the garage. Today, I wasn't building a car; I was modifying door latches so that they were stronger and operated smoothly.

With your 2020 timeframe, you're in exactly the right place. You've got plenty of time to read the forum, look at the pictures, and gain valuable background knowledge. Find a builder or two in your area, and pretty soon that overwhelmed feeling will pass.


John

[Papa]

Terry,

I was pretty much in your exact spot a year and a half ago. I wanted to build a roadster, but wasn't sure I had the "ability" to do it. The first thing I did, which you have already done, was to buy an assembly manual. I read through it and didn't come across anything that seemed way over my head. I knew my skills were not where they needed to be to build the engine, so my plan included a crate engine that I could simply install into the car, make a few connections for fuel coolant, and electrical, and be ready to roll. I read wareaglescott's and edwardb's build threads several times. Scott's was from the perspective of a novice builder, and Paul's was from the perspective of an experienced builder. Both provided the details I needed to give me the confidence to give it a shot. I've encountered a few places in the build where I got stumped, but this forum offered all the support I needed to get past those sticking points. I've found this build to be one of the most rewarding undertakings I've ever done. I'm not completely done yet, but the hardest parts are all behind me and now I just need to find the time to finish it up. I actually think I'm subconsciously delaying the completion of my build simply because I don't want it to end. I wish you the best and hope you will decide to build your dream car.

Dave

[CFranks]

I’m like you, I have no idea what I’m doing! I ended buying a partially completed car, mostly a time factor vs. thinking it would be much easier. It’s a bit cheaper if you find the right situation too. It’s an option to consider if you don’t have tons of time on a weekly basis. If you have the time and money, definitely go complete kit and crate. Buy during one of the options sales and upgrade to big brakes, otherwise sell your kidney afterwards to upgrade. I’m still learning a ton and probably will end up re-building the whole thing before I’m done anyway due to modifications (translation - fixing things I accidentally break). However you go forward, you should absolutely do it.

[wltrmtty]

Thanks CFranks, I'm really getting encouraged the more I read the forum and Build threads.

[Dave Howard]

Terry,

The starting line can be intimidating. Uncertainty about purchasing the right components. Uncertainty about the build. Uncertainty about your own abilities. Can you ever have too much information --- YES. Hands down, the best source of information is the FFR build manual, and the instructions that come with the 3rd party components specifically designed for your FFR roadster. One of the best ways to ensure an easy build with a successful outcome is to purchase a complete kit from FFR along with a crate engine/drive train. FFR Has done all the tough engineering. Their kit goes together with no cutting, fabricating or welding. The instructions are well laid out and sequenced. If you READ and follow the manual, you can't go wrong. I recommend attending the build school. The FFR manual will tell you how to build the car. The build school will show you how easy it is and give you the confidence to attach that first F-panel. There are many build threads on the forum that give invaluable details of each builds experience. These are great but DON'T use a build thread as a replacement for the FFR manual. The manual is gospel. A build thread is someone else's version. Confident builders will deviate and personalize their builds with 'mods". If you're not that confident builder, follow the basic FFR recipe.

Likes others, my roadster was my fist ever car build. High school auto mechanics formed the knowledge background. A lifetime of personal vehicle maintenance and rebuilds on lawnmowers, snowblowers, outboards, ATVs, snowmobiles ..... formed the experience. In hindsight, the roadster build was relatively easy. It's like a build Mechano set with a grownup sized manual.

Good luck and don't overthink the process before you even get started.

[wltrmtty]

Thanks for the wise counsel, Dave. I've downloaded the manual, but want to order the paper copy (currently out of stock) for note-taking. My intention is to attend a Build School down the line. Now, I need to get up to speed on the vocabulary (e.g., UCA, LCA, etc). I find myself wishing there was a glossary - possibly a good Sticky. I now know the center section is the differential and wondered why it isn't called the differential, but I think Center Section is used in the context of the IRS. Thanks, again.

Terry

[Gumball]

Hi Terry - welcome aboard. Lots of great suggestions so far, and there's no substitution for hands-on. There's a great SE Wisconsin contingent of guys here and they're even nice enough to tolerate a few FIBs like me. I'm somewhat of a WI-wannabe, so I'm up in the Lake Geneva / Williams Bay / Elkhorn area quite a bit visiting friends and family, so always happy to drop by. In fact, one of my favorite day-trips with my FFR is to drive the Kettle, with a stop at Knuckleheads in Eagle for a burger.

My car is very old-school. It has a carb'd 347 and lots of period-correct modifications. I'd be happy to meet up with you and the other WI guys anytime or to have you drop by my shop - I'm straight down 120 / 47 about an hour south of Lake Geneva. Also, I'll probably have it up at the Fall Vintage Fest at Road America on either Sat or Sun (9/15 - 16).

We also share something else in common - here are a few pics of my FFR, along with one of my '18 350R.

PM me if you want to connect.

[GoDadGo]

Terry,

Welcome aboard & know that you've come to the right place.
Skip the 1st step and go straight to the 2nd step and consider skipping Step 3 unless you want to join the "Dark Side!"

Step 1. Look at several other manufacturers to see who builds the best race car that comes in a box.
Step 2. Buy a copy of the the Factory Five Assembly Manual (Hard Copy Please) and read it a two or three times.
Step 3. Put A Chevy Engine In Your Car Because It Makes The Build More Interesting Than Installing A Ford Motor!
Step 4. Look at all of the Factory Five Assembly Videos.
Step 5. Look at the build threads of Edwardb because his work and documentation will really help.
Step 6. Consider going to the build school if you are still unsure about your abilities before doubling down by ordering a kit.
Step 7. You're going to order a kit but I had to put Step 6 in just for fun.
Step 8. Make sure you have enough room in your shop or garage and the proper tools to build the sucker.
Step 9. Order Your Kit!
Step 10. Take Your Significant Other (Preferably Your Wife If You Have One) Out To Her Favorite Restaurant For Dinner!

Good Luck & Welcome Aboard From The Swamp Lands Of Louisiana!

Steve

[Murd]

Gumball,
Seat of your pants which one feels quicker?
Power to weight for a gt350 approx 7lbs/hp, 2200lb 350hp FFR is 6.3. Mine is probably about 300hp which puts it at 7.3.
To the OP, I don’t think you will find 350hp to be any less monsterous then your Gt350. It’s probably quicker because of the computers, and at the very high end. I bet at anything like normal speeds the mk4 would hang with it or be quicker.

[Gumball]

My FFR has around 400 hp and is truly traction limited. It feels much more raw than the 350R, but nowhere near as composed.

The 350R is an iron fist in a velvet glove, while the FFR is a 9 lb sledge.

[wltrmtty]

Hey Gumball, I'd love to get together sometime. I'll PM you. Your cars are awesome. They appear to be Magnetic Grey Metallic which, coincidentally, is at the top of the list for my build along with black or red stripes. I'll check my calendar for the RA Vintage Race. BTW, I was in Lake Geneva earlier today.

Thanks!

Terry

[wltrmtty]

Terry,

Welcome aboard & know that you've come to the right place.
Skip the 1st step and go straight to the 2nd step and consider skipping Step 3 unless you want to join the "Dark Side!"

Step 1. Look at several other manufacturers to see who builds the best race car that comes in a box.
Step 2. Buy a copy of the the Factory Five Assembly Manual (Hard Copy Please) and read it a two or three times.
Step 3. Put A Chevy Engine In Your Car Because It Makes The Build More Interesting Than Installing A Ford Motor!
Step 4. Look at all of the Factory Five Assembly Videos.
Step 5. Look at the build threads of Edwardb because his work and documentation will really help.
Step 6. Consider going to the build school if you are still unsure about your abilities before doubling down by ordering a kit.
Step 7. You're going to order a kit but I had to put Step 6 in just for fun.
Step 8. Make sure you have enough room in your shop or garage and the proper tools to build the sucker.
Step 9. Order Your Kit!
Step 10. Take Your Significant Other (Preferably Your Wife If You Have One) Out To Her Favorite Restaurant For Dinner!

Good Luck & Welcome Aboard From The Swamp Lands Of Louisiana!

Steve

Step 1: Agreed to skip. What else is there but FFR?
Step 2: I have the digital and will order the hard copy when it's back in stock.
Step 3: Not interested. Ford all the way.
Step 4: In process.
Step 5: Great build threads. In process.
Step 6: There's still an opening in November, but my wife is getting a knee replacement a few weeks before, so maybe next year.
Step 7: Agreed
Step 8: The plan for the new place in Missouri is to have a 3-car for the build + the GT350. I think I have most of the tools.
Step 9: That's the plan. I've read many comments on the build threads about how well put together these kits are.
Step 10: Good advise - that would be my wife.

Thanks, Steve.

BTW, I recently read a biography of Andrew Jackson and the Battle of New Orleans. You live right in the thick of it. Great history!

Terry

[Dave Howard]

My FFR has around 400 hp and is truly traction limited. It feels much more raw than the 350R, but nowhere near as composed.

The 350R is an iron fist in a velvet glove, while the FFR is a 9 lb sledge.

HAHA - Well said Gumball. I personally reach for the sledge hammer every chance I get. "I'm just heading to the store for milk honey"! ....BAM

[Jazzman]

By becoming a member on this forum, you are already doing the most important thing you can to prepare. I would echo many others who have already responded. Read as many build threads as you can. Take your time. Do your planning. I spent two years planning my build before I actually pulled the trigger to buy a kit. The more you read, the more you will understand. You will be glad you downloaded the build manual. It is worth reading, even as you remember that it is only designed to give you the basics. This forum gives you a lot more information than the build manual. Take your time and ask questions. Unlike other forums, this forum is a safe place to be a Newbie!

[wltrmtty]

By becoming a member on this forum, you are already doing the most important thing you can to prepare. I would echo many others who have already responded. Read as many build threads as you can. Take your time. Do your planning. I spent two years planning my build before I actually pulled the trigger to buy a kit. The more you read, the more you will understand. You will be glad you downloaded the build manual. It is worth reading, even as you remember that it is only designed to give you the basics. This forum gives you a lot more information than the build manual. Take your time and ask questions. Unlike other forums, this forum is a safe place to be a Newbie!

Yes, Jazzman, I agree 100%. I read the build threads and reference the manual as I go so I know where they are reference to the build manuals. When I get the hard copy manual, I'll be able to to make notes.

"Unlike other forums, this forum is a safe place to be a Newbie!" After spending time in the forum and watching all of the help (and the kind of help) people get on here, I came to the conclusion that this forum and its community is the #1 FFR sales group.

[cv2065]

After spending time in the forum and watching all of the help (and the kind of help) people get on here, I came to the conclusion that this forum and its community is the #1 FFR sales group.

Welcome Terry. Aside from having an excellent product, if there is one reason to go FFR, this forum is it. It just doesn't get any better than the FFR members here. The expertise really is mind blowing when it comes to assembly. The smallest detail is covered and every question answered. You won't find that anywhere else...

Look forward to your future build!!