Wondering the do's and don'ts, and the wills and won'ts of putting a 351 Cleveland in an MK4. I know FF doesn't really say they support them but also know they are the same block as the Windsor. Any input would be helpful!!
Higgy
New MK4 kit ordered, promised date 04/13/24
MK4 #10616 picked up 4/10/23!!!
302w, 4 link, 17's, dual roll bar SOLD
MK4 #9759 picked up on 4/3/19
351C, 3 link, 17's, dual roll bars SOLD
Not many from what I've seen. Actually, I don't think they're the same block. There have been lots of variations. I don't have any personal experience, but one of the main points that always comes up is would require custom headers. That and the difference in parts availability compared to the Windsor.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
My question is, do you already have this 351c? If not, I would advise a Windsor build. The aftermarket and supporting vendors for the 351w are vastly more than you'll find for the Clevelands.
They are NOT the same block. The simple way to look at it is: The Windsor is a "big" small block, and the Cleveland is a "small" big block. The Cleveland also weighs a LOT more than the Windsor, and there is a LOT less aftermarket speed equipment available for it (besides the aforementioned headers). Stick with a Windsor, the Cleveland is a bad choice for a roadster.
Paul, I did read that thread. Making a set of headers is no big deal, im wondering about fitment in the engine bay. Hopefully someone will chime in with personal experience.
Originally Posted by silver_pilate
My question is, do you already have this 351c? If not, I would advise a Windsor build. The aftermarket and supporting vendors for the 351w are vastly more than you'll find for the Clevelands.
Have a Cleveland motor, and aftermarket parts are plentiful for them. Check Summit, they have all ya need. Just want something different.
New MK4 kit ordered, promised date 04/13/24
MK4 #10616 picked up 4/10/23!!!
302w, 4 link, 17's, dual roll bar SOLD
MK4 #9759 picked up on 4/3/19
351C, 3 link, 17's, dual roll bars SOLD
If you ever decide to sell the 351c may make the difference to potential buyers.
JR
Mk4 complete kit #9059 ordered 1/19/17 delivered 3/23/17, 2015 IRS, Fortes/DART347,TKO 600, hyd clutch, P/S, 12.88 wilwood brakes front and rear, heater/defrost and vintage gauges
First start and go-cart 4/11/18. Taken To Whitby Motorcars Greensboro, N.C. 2/5/21 for body/paint
They are not the same block. In the days before modern cylinder head technology started being applied to the Windsors they were the smaller displacement (i.e.; sub 400 inch) engine of choice in the Ford camp due to their better breathing capabilities but once the 5.0 Mustangs were introduced and the aftermarket embraced the lighter W family of engines the Cleveland became a bit of an orphan in the US. If you have the engine and the skills and want to do it to be different go ahead but the reality is that hitting the "easy button" with a Windsor will net the same power for less dollars.
I did miss speak in my first post saying they had the same block. I do understand that the Windsor's are easier to get and install. I also kinda think that my decision is becoming clearer just because of the lack of the 351C's in these cars. I like being different and still haven't found my 'easy' button lol. Still hoping to hear from someone that has installed a Cleveland in an MK4
Thanks for the posts, keep them coming!!
Higgy
Last edited by Higgybulin; 08-25-2018 at 04:28 PM.
New MK4 kit ordered, promised date 04/13/24
MK4 #10616 picked up 4/10/23!!!
302w, 4 link, 17's, dual roll bar SOLD
MK4 #9759 picked up on 4/3/19
351C, 3 link, 17's, dual roll bars SOLD
It will fit because you can use mod motor in them and they are way wider than a Cleveland! I am not certain on the tallness of the height and hood clearance, I say do it, I love the Cleveland engine do it set the example!
Sent you a PM....Don't listen to these naysayers! I put a Cleveland in #8317 and am happy I did! There are parts available, albeit a bit more expensive, and as long as you use good ones, the engine will live a long healthy life. Oh and by the way it fits fine!
Agree with frankb. I have lots of experience with the 351c in my Detomaso Pantera. Performance parts are readily available. They are not as plentiful as for the 351w but they are there and are no more expensive, in my view, than Windsor parts. As stated here, the block is different than the Windsor but the most significant difference over the US run is in the heads. Early motors had cast iron, closed chamber heads. Later "smog" motors had open chamber heads that made far less power. Anyway, send me a note if you think I can help.
Photo of oil filter area on a Cleveland block in FFR 8317. Filter in its factory location, but fuel pump is electric, mounted near tank on passenger side, so only a block-off plate in this photo!
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Originally Posted by silver_pilate
