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Thread: Gen. 3 Coyote Engine Now Available!

  1. #1
    Forte's Parts Connection
    mike forte's Avatar
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    Gen. 3 Coyote Engine Now Available!

    We know you've been waiting for the Gen 3 Coyote to become available as a crate engine for your Mk4 Roadster. Now the wait is over and it's now available to order for shipping. Call for details!
    Mike Forte: Forte's Parts Connection / Framingham, Mass. 01702 / 508 875 0016 / [email protected] / fortesparts.com / Facebook Instagram: @fortespartconnection Est: 1981 dealing performance parts to build your dream car. A REAL SPEED SHOP with parts, price & knowledge. Developer of the early Ford & FE Tremec and Mustang firewall adjustable quadrant kits, external slave clutch release conversions & cable release conversions. Tremec Elite, FORD RACING & QUICKTIME DISTRIBUTOR!

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    Hey Mike - great to hear! Can you post pictures and more details? Definitely want to get my order in and curious to just learn what the final crate motor specs have.

    Thanks
    -Brian
    MK4 Complete Kit #9311 - Coyote, TKO600, IRS
    Ordered: 1/23/18 | Production Complete: 3/6/18 | Delivery: 3/30/18
    Build thread

  4. #3
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabb View Post
    Hey Mike - great to hear! Can you post pictures and more details? Definitely want to get my order in and curious to just learn what the final crate motor specs have.

    Thanks
    -Brian
    Lots of information on the interwebb about the Gen 3 Coyote. Here's one that's decent showing some of the differences: https://www.fordnxt.com/news/a-peek-...coyote-engine/. Check my Gen 3 Coupe build. Link in my sig line below. Just took delivery on one today and there are pictures.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

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    Awesome! But is it plug and play for Mk4? New control pack?

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    Senior Member Dave Howard's Avatar
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    Great news Mike.
    The Gen 3 Coyote has some marginal performance improvements over early Gen Coyotes. The one draw back I see for the use of the Gen 3 in the FFR MkIV application is the appearance. With all the added hoses, wires, pumps, sensors....Gen3 will be one ugly mess....more so than the Gen2s. As a Cobra owner, we all know one of the first things people want to see is the engine compartment. I can envision future Gen3 owners being reluctant to lift their hoods. So one thing future builders may want to consider is the purchase of an earlier Gen Coyote. A mild mod for power increase will surpass the performance of the Gen3 and the wow factor under the hood is still there.
    Last edited by Dave Howard; 09-08-2018 at 12:51 AM.
    MkIV #7854, Kit picked up September 2012, Coyote/BOSS 302 intake tuned at 488HP, TKO600, Center Force, Moser 8.8, driveshaft safety hoop, Stainless Header 4x1x4 headers, Gas-N-sidepipes, rad shroud, Wilwoods, NO PS/PB, heater/defroster, heated seats, wipers, Herb door panels, Dynamat Extreme sound/heat dampening, premium Rodtop top, Fast Freddie lexan wind screen, Nitto 555R, drop trunk battery, drop trunk storage,

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    It seems like we are dodging the one true question....

    What is the price for it?

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    Senior Member KenWilkinson's Avatar
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    FYI per Wikipedia on the Gen 3

    For 2018, Ford made revisions to the Coyote equipped in the Mustang GT- most notably the addition of high-pressure direct injection (in addition to the existing port injection system), and an increase of the piston bore diameter from 92.2mm to 93mm. This increase in the bore size, resulting from the adoption of Plasma Wire Arc Transfer cylinder liner technology in place of the more traditional sleeve in the block, brings total displacement up from 4,951 to 5,035 cc (302 to 307 cu in). Other changes include Gen. 3 specific camshafts, enlarged intake and exhaust valves, an increased compression ratio of 12.0:1, a revised intake manifold, and 7500 RPM redline. With these changes the updated 5.0L Coyote is rated by Ford at 460 hp (343 kW) and 420 lb⋅ft (569 N⋅m).

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    Senior Member Clover's Avatar
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    The gen 3 Coyote is much more then a marginal performance increase if you tune it. I think from the factory if is only 25 hp and a higher redline then the Gen 2 but if you tune it the difference between a gen 2 and gen 3 Coyote approaches 100 hp. There are Mustang guys out there putting down ~510 RWHP with a CAI, headers, e85 and a tune with the Gen 3 motors. That is around 575 hp at the crank factoring in drive train loss which is more then the GT350s are making stock. The Mustang guys are in love with the new Gen 3 Coyote.
    Gen III Type 65 Coupe Delivered 6/26/2018

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Gen 1 and Gen 2's are no longer being manufactured. There are still some new Gen 2's out there, but they'll be gone eventually. So if you want a new Coyote, the Gen 3 will be the only option sooner than later. Of course the older versions will be in the used/salvage market for years. Just depends on what you want. Many builders want new. Agreed the power increase is more than marginal. When you get into the details, clearly Ford is using many of the advancements from the GT350, less the flat plane crank. The only appearance difference is the added pump and fuel lines on the heads from the Direct Injection (DI). Precludes the use of coil covers.

    Since this thread was started by a forum vendor, I won't get into pricing other than to say the Gen 3 is more expensive. Still a good value IMO, but builders will have to decide.

    Keep the hood closed? Not a chance.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

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    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    FWIW I have not gotten negative comments on an open hood engine look. Most look in & say "how did you ever stuff that bad boy in there". Car guys know what a COYOTE engine represents anyone else......

    Will agree with the others, Gen III might be more expensive but its not a trivial advance in technology, especially the port injection.
    Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-01-2018 at 03:15 PM.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '14/TKO-600/3-Link 3:55 Rear
    I love the smell of 100 octane in the morning.
    NITTO NT01 275X40X17ZR - 315X35ZRX17
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

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    Senior Member Dave Howard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clover View Post
    The gen 3 Coyote is much more then a marginal performance increase if you tune it. I think from the factory if is only 25 hp and a higher redline then the Gen 2 but if you tune it the difference between a gen 2 and gen 3 Coyote approaches 100 hp. There are Mustang guys out there putting down ~510 RWHP with a CAI, headers, e85 and a tune with the Gen 3 motors. That is around 575 hp at the crank factoring in drive train loss which is more then the GT350s are making stock. The Mustang guys are in love with the new Gen 3 Coyote.
    My original post in this thread made reference to the appearance of Gen3s in a FFR MkIV not a Mustang. The Mustang and Cobra crowds are totally different. People expect to see a disgustingly busy crowded engine bay in a Mustang, but not in a Cobra. Its not hard to put out additional HP/torque from a Gen1 to match the Gen3 and the engine will take the added power easily. In an attempt to make the Gen3 appearance less unsightly, Ford has elected to basically hide the engine under a ridiculous cover. So my suggestion was future MKIV builders, who are conscious about the appearance of their engine bay could consider an earlier Gen Coyote and not sacrifice any marginal difference in power(25HP) over earlier Gens.
    MkIV #7854, Kit picked up September 2012, Coyote/BOSS 302 intake tuned at 488HP, TKO600, Center Force, Moser 8.8, driveshaft safety hoop, Stainless Header 4x1x4 headers, Gas-N-sidepipes, rad shroud, Wilwoods, NO PS/PB, heater/defroster, heated seats, wipers, Herb door panels, Dynamat Extreme sound/heat dampening, premium Rodtop top, Fast Freddie lexan wind screen, Nitto 555R, drop trunk battery, drop trunk storage,

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    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Howard View Post
    My original post in this thread made reference to the appearance of Gen3s in a FFR MkIV not a Mustang. The Mustang and Cobra crowds are totally different. People expect to see a disgustingly busy crowded engine bay in a Mustang, but not in a Cobra. Its not hard to put out additional HP/torque from a Gen1 to match the Gen3 and the engine will take the added power easily. In an attempt to make the Gen3 appearance less unsightly, Ford has elected to basically hide the engine under a ridiculous cover. So my suggestion was future MKIV builders, who are conscious about the appearance of their engine bay could consider an earlier Gen Coyote and not sacrifice any marginal difference in power(25HP) over earlier Gens.
    Your opinion for your car. Its not a Mustang & its not an original COBRA either which had wires, hoses & such all over the engine compartment.

    Thing is we are all building individual cars that please us the builder. I built the car to please myself & could care less who approves of what I did or didn't do.

    My engine looks nothing like an original so its all over for the how its expected to look gang from the get go.





    CSX3301



    $803,000 @ Sotheby’s auction in Monterey, CA
    Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-01-2018 at 09:39 PM.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '14/TKO-600/3-Link 3:55 Rear
    I love the smell of 100 octane in the morning.
    NITTO NT01 275X40X17ZR - 315X35ZRX17
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  17. #13
    25th Anniversary #9772 toadster's Avatar
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    are there optional (or custom) engine covers? the OEM cover is atrocious IMHO

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toadster View Post
    are there optional (or custom) engine covers? the OEM cover is atrocious IMHO
    Nope, it isn't pretty. I haven't seen any optional or custom Gen 3 Coyote covers, and I've been watching. Finally decided to do something about it myself. This is what I recently posted in my Coupe build thread. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post371325. Will look different (hopefully better) when painted and trimmed out. But happy with it so far.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

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    Quick question, if I may. My MKIV complete came with the following:

    15440 - MODULAR 4.6/COYOTE ENG/TRANS MOUNT KIT
    1629 - COYOTE FULL LENGTH HEADERS WITH KIT
    1543 - COYOTE INSTALLATION KIT

    Will all these work for Gen 3 install, or are the parts specific to Gen 1/2 installation? My plan is to look for a used motor, and I am not set on Gen 2 vs Gen 3. WHatever will be abetter deal will win. Any comments on fitment and parts compatibility? A low profile oil pan will need to be purchased for either of the two I presume. And same trimming to teh transmission housing on a TKO600.

    Am I missing anything that can sway towards using Gen 2 vs Gen 3?

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  21. #16
    25th Anniversary #9772 toadster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_V View Post
    Quick question, if I may. My MKIV complete came with the following:

    15440 - MODULAR 4.6/COYOTE ENG/TRANS MOUNT KIT
    1629 - COYOTE FULL LENGTH HEADERS WITH KIT
    1543 - COYOTE INSTALLATION KIT

    Will all these work for Gen 3 install, or are the parts specific to Gen 1/2 installation? My plan is to look for a used motor, and I am not set on Gen 2 vs Gen 3. WHatever will be abetter deal will win. Any comments on fitment and parts compatibility? A low profile oil pan will need to be purchased for either of the two I presume. And same trimming to teh transmission housing on a TKO600.

    Am I missing anything that can sway towards using Gen 2 vs Gen 3?
    the mount and headers should be the same - as for the install kit here's what is provided in my order
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Todd
    25th Anniversary MkIV | #20 of 25 | Build #9772
    https://cobradreams.com/ <- my build!

  22. #17
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Having done both Gen 2 and Gen 3, can give some responses. Externally, no differences. Same headers, engine mounts, bell housing, alternator, starter, KRC power steering, cooling system connections, etc. The Gen 3 throttle body has a slightly different angle, but either the Spectre or Treadstone suggested cold air intake parts will work. The vacuum port for the Gen 3 CMCV system is on the front of the intake vs. the back. But connection is similar. Good to see Factory Five is now offering a Gen 3 Coyote installation kit. Aside from various fittings and whatever, the Gen 3 PCM is completely different so requires a different mounting plate. Most of the rest of the control pack is the same or similar, e.g. PDB, DBW, harness connections, etc. The O2 connections are routed differently on the harness, so may require extensions. But that's true for both. Just different. Covers are different too, as many know. The Gen 3 no longer can accept coil covers (on the heads) and the intake cover isn't liked by many. Like the Gen 1 and Gen 2, there may be some aftermarket options. But none yet that I know of. I fabricated my own Gen 3 cover using the center part of the stock cover and then pieces. Will look OK when done, I think, but the top of the heads will still look pretty busy. Not much you're going to do about that.

    Two big differences between Gen 2 and Gen 3: First, when changing to the Moroso pan (same pan for either) it's required to also install a new lower profile pickup. The Gen 2 has a bolt-on pickup tube, which Moroso has had available for some time. The Gen 3 connection is completely different and is a push-on connection. When I did mine, nothing was available so had to do something custom. Long story. Moroso now has a Gen 3 pickup tube, their part number 24578. I see it also comes with a new main bearing cap bolt, which also needs to be installed. Second, the Gen 3 has a dual mass flywheel which will not work with our usual selection of clutches and transmissions. Really no choice but to change it. The stock nodular flywheel, like what came on the Gen 1 and Gen 2, is roughly a $200 part. For my builds, I used a M-6375-M50 billet steel flywheel, which is 7-8 lbs lighter, stronger (although maybe not really needed), and of course a little more money. For the Gen 3 flywheel swap, you'd also need to add a pilot bearing, bolts, and dowels. Since both Factory Five and Forte are offering assembled Gen 3 packages, I'm assuming both of these would be dealt with. One other aside comment. I had my brand new take-off Gen 3 dual mass flywheel on CraigsList and then eBay. It's a $500 - $700 part (street vs. list) but had zero interest in buying it for any price. There were some others on there too. Also with no apparent activity. So don't expect to recover any of the cost of the replacement flywheel.

    Finally, the Gen 3 does require a 65 PSI fuel system versus the 55 PSI fuel system. If using a pretty typical in-tank pump and adjustable (e.g. Aeromotive) regulator, not an issue. Just an adjustment. Many used the fixed GM regulator/filter for Gen 1 and Gen 2 builds. It's fixed at 58 PSI. May/may not be suitable for the Gen 3. I don't have an opinion. I've used an adjustable regulator for both of my builds.

    Of course the Gen 3 is more expensive, so that will influence some. But it also is a big jump in HP and torque and a whole bunch of internal improvements including direct injection. And by all accounts, the numbers advertised by Ford are very conservative. It's routinely dynoing for more. I've driven my Gen 2 powered Roadster a bunch, and like it a lot. Only two miles on my Gen 3 powered Coupe. Too early to say, but sound alone it's angrier.
    Last edited by edwardb; 10-30-2019 at 04:29 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

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    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Paul,
    If FFR hasn’t already, they seriously need to send some swag your way for all the help you’ve given to FFR builders.
    25th Anniversary Roadster #12 of 25
    Gen 3 Coyote
    TKO 600 mid-shift


    Car

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    Thanks for a detail explanation. Looks like both are solid options.

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    25th Anniversary #9772 toadster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    Paul,
    If FFR hasn’t already, they seriously need to send some swag your way for all the help you’ve given to FFR builders.

    I second the motion!
    Todd
    25th Anniversary MkIV | #20 of 25 | Build #9772
    https://cobradreams.com/ <- my build!

  29. #21
    25th Anniversary #9772 toadster's Avatar
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    btw - here's some details as Paul mentioned - the Gen3 shows a LOT of power just stock!

    On The Dyno
    Strapping down the 2018 Coyote on Westech’s engine dyno was no different than any other Coyote we’ve tested. Our engine fired up instantly and we could tell immediately that the Gen 3 is a much smoother running engine than earlier Gen-1 and -2 designs, thanks to charge-motion control valves built into the intake manifold. After a break-in cycle, we went WOT with the bone-stock calibration. This resulted in an astonishing 496.8 horsepower and 427.4 lb-ft of torque. That’s about 60 more horsepower than we see from previous-generation Coyotes.

    https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ford...-makes-532-hp/

    and think about it - that's with catalytics and stock tune...

    adding a 91Oct tune and CAI "we broke 500 horsepower with 511.7 hp and 433.9 lb-ft of torque. That was a respectable gain of 14.9 hp and 6.5 lb-ft of torque."
    Todd
    25th Anniversary MkIV | #20 of 25 | Build #9772
    https://cobradreams.com/ <- my build!

  30. #22
    Senior Member Garage Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Nope, it isn't pretty. I haven't seen any optional or custom Gen 3 Coyote covers, and I've been watching. Finally decided to do something about it myself. This is what I recently posted in my Coupe build thread. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post371325. Will look different (hopefully better) when painted and trimmed out. But happy with it so far.
    Paul, I really like what you did with your cover. Although I do think you have an added advantage by the fact that you put it in a coupe. From your pictures IMHO it looks more at home there because with the hood up it's a straight-up race car.

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