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Thread: Secret to Torque Front Upper Ball Joints?

  1. #1
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Secret to Torque Front Upper Ball Joints?

    Can’t get my 1/2 or 3/8 torque wrench in there with socket to torque the front upper ball joints. Too close to the bottom castle nut. Thought about cutting a socket down, but there has to be a better way?
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    Put a wrench on it, and snug it. Put the cotter pin in and all set. Some things you just can’t get a torque wrench on

  3. #3
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottiec View Post
    Put a wrench on it, and snug it. Put the cotter pin in and all set. Some things you just can’t get a torque wrench on
    Works for me. My upper ball joints came with a washer under the castle but. Seems like I’m way over 75 ft-lbs and still not getting enough of the hole for the cotter pin. If I take the washer out, not enough height on the castle nut as I can slide the cotter pin in. Simple enough to just replace with a thinner washer or am I jacking something up?
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    a crows foot on the end of the torque wrench will get into tight places. also hazet produces a torque wrench with interchangeable heads, but be prepared to pay. We use these to torque engine mount bolts at work. ( mercedes-benz master tech)

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    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    Scottiec has the answer. I've worked with hundreds of tapered fasteners over the last 50 plus years and many cannot be torqued. I have never seen a failure by snugging these by hand when a torque wrench could not be used.

    I'm a proponent of properly tightening fasteners. For many applications that means using a torque wrench or other appropriate method to ensure you have stretched the fastener to a range that provides the proper clamp load and enough tension to resist loosening and high cycle fatigue. Think of these fasteners like a spring that is stretched and maintains a constant tension. But not all bolted connections need to be torqued as they don't rely on a torque / tension relationship to perform their job. A typical ball joint uses a tapered stud that engages with a tapered hole. These usually perform just fine by snugging them by hand as the tapered fit will hold them tight in the bore with very little clamping force and the cotter key will prevent the nut from backing off.

  6. #6
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Guess I'll be taking a trip to Harbor Freight tomorrow and picking me up a cheap crowfoot wrench set. Never even knew about those. Learn something every day!

    Have to see where I am on this torque thing. If I'm not mistaken, I was way past 75 ft-lbs just on feel and the hole wasn't lined up on the castle nut yet, so we'll see.

    Thanks guys!
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    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAZ View Post
    Scottiec has the answer. I've worked with hundreds of tapered fasteners over the last 50 plus years and many cannot be torqued. I have never seen a failure by snugging these by hand when a torque wrench could not be used.

    I'm a proponent of properly tightening fasteners. For many applications that means using a torque wrench or other appropriate method to ensure you have stretched the fastener to a range that provides the proper clamp load and enough tension to resist loosening and high cycle fatigue. Think of these fasteners like a spring that is stretched and maintains a constant tension. But not all bolted connections need to be torqued as they don't rely on a torque / tension relationship to perform their job. A typical ball joint uses a tapered stud that engages with a tapered hole. These usually perform just fine by snugging them by hand as the tapered fit will hold them tight in the bore with very little clamping force and the cotter key will prevent the nut from backing off.
    I probably wouldn't worry about it as much if the castle nut hole was aligning with simple torque, but it doesn't want to, so really want to know where I'm at.
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  8. #8
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    If you plan to use a crows foot (or any type of lateral extension) remember it must be installed and maintained at a right angle to the handle to indicate the correct torque.

  9. #9
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAZ View Post
    If you plan to use a crows foot (or any type of lateral extension) remember it must be installed and maintained at a right angle to the handle to indicate the correct torque.
    Thanks for that NAZ. Just got finished watching a video using crows feet and they mentioned that the 90 degrees cancels out the additional length. Pretty cool.
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    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wltrmtty View Post
    Thanks Wltr. I know HF isn't the greatest quality, but probably won't be using these very often. Nice to have though and I can get through that part of the project tomorrow, as the HF is 10 mins away. Gotta get these hubs on and get moving to the passenger footbox and rear harness.
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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    I agree that location isn't very friendly for a torque wrench. A crows foot is one way to address. I have a set but admit to not using them all that often. Agreed in this case because it's a tapered fitting with a a castle nut, being able to measure the torque to the Nth degree isn't a big issue. Pretty easy to get a box end wrench into that area. If you're jacking on it pretty hard, e.g. 75 lbs or more, and still can't get a hole to show enough to get the cotter key in, the answer isn't tighter or different tools. Assuming the taper is fitting properly and fully seated, the answer is a thinner washer. Ideally a decent hardened washer.
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    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    I agree that location isn't very friendly for a torque wrench. A crows foot is one way to address. I have a set but admit to not using them all that often. Agreed in this case because it's a tapered fitting with a a castle nut, being able to measure the torque to the Nth degree isn't a big issue. Pretty easy to get a box end wrench into that area. If you're jacking on it pretty hard, e.g. 75 lbs or more, and still can't get a hole to show enough to get the cotter key in, the answer isn't tighter or different tools. Assuming the taper is fitting properly and fully seated, the answer is a thinner washer. Ideally a decent hardened washer.
    Thanks Paul. I think I'll probably end up doing both. The crows feet set will only set me back $8, but really can't go wrong to get into the right torque ballpark. I'll pick up some Grade 8 washers while I'm at it. Should be able t get half the thickness of the stock washer (over 1/16") and be good to go.
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    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    Why not back off the castle nut, just enough to get the cotter pin in?

  15. #15
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    Don't get too bundged up about the torque value on the ball joint studs. A 3/4 or 7/8 (whatever size that nut is) hand wrench with some grunt on it will easily achieve the 75 ft.lbs needed.
    The nut is only about 40% of what's holding the stud in the hole. Once a tapered stud is seated in its hole it's not going anywhere without a lot of force to knock it out. (Force meaning a hammer blow, pickle fork, or a puller.)

    It's common practice when a castle nut is "just this close" to lining up on the cotter pin hole (but you can't tighten any more), to crack it loose, then re-snug it to the step/slot just previous to the slot you can't tighten to. (did that make sense?) Install the pin and you're good to go.

    Or... as other's have said, find a slightly thinner washer
    Or... knock the assembly apart, turn the components (stud or arm) just a bit, reassemble, and hope your "swag" on the turning will be correct when the nut is tight and the holes line up.
    Last edited by Fixit; 09-01-2018 at 06:22 AM.
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    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC Bill View Post
    Why not back off the castle nut, just enough to get the cotter pin in?
    It's actually the opposite. I'm pretty heavy on the torque value (>75 ft-lbs) and still pretty far from being able to get the cotter pin in. I'll be trying again today and see where we are.

    I did by the way have that issue before where the cotter pin would not align with the max torque value. I was always told not to back off the nut to get one to align. I added some lubricant (ARP) to the threads and got to where I needed to be.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    "Backing off" and retightening is OK if there's still some tension on the fastener... if the nut is loose, NO. (again, the taper does most of the holding)

    You might just try swapping the nuts from side to side. They may be threaded differently just enough to line up.
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    Here is an example of the torque wrenches that I own. interchangeable heads are really nice to have . You can also insert box end style wrench fittings to get into really tight spaces. after working on German cars for so long, I have tools that are not common to most, but they are available if you don't mind the cost. also gives you bragging rights over your buddies

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA7-yKwbiZ0

  19. #19
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malloy View Post
    Here is an example of the torque wrenches that I own. interchangeable heads are really nice to have . You can also insert box end style wrench fittings to get into really tight spaces. after working on German cars for so long, I have tools that are not common to most, but they are available if you don't mind the cost. also gives you bragging rights over your buddies

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA7-yKwbiZ0
    Looks really nice! I’m sure nothing but the best at Mercedes! My budget keeps Harbor Frieght in business, but had to return my crows feet set as theirs doesn’t have a 7/8’s size, so went right over to Advance Auto. They had a set right on shelf for a couple Bucks more. Their 20% discount on everything a great. I’ve been using the P20 code for years.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    WAY over thinking this. Tighten by hand and forget it. One day you will need to remove a ball joint and will understand why we say don't worry about it.
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  21. #21
    Senior Member SSNK4US's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malloy View Post
    Here is an example of the torque wrenches that I own. interchangeable heads are really nice to have . You can also insert box end style wrench fittings to get into really tight spaces. after working on German cars for so long, I have tools that are not common to most, but they are available if you don't mind the cost. also gives you bragging rights over your buddies

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA7-yKwbiZ0
    Wish I could afford a $500 torque wrench lol
    If everything seems under control, you’re just not going fast enough....

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