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Thread: Tie Rod Ends

  1. #1
    Member Randy's's Avatar
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    Tie Rod Ends

    As I understand it, the vendor that supplies the tie rod ends to Factory Five is having production issues. It seems it may be awhile before they are available and a lot of us are waiting on them. I purchased the complete kit with the power steering upgrade and just need the tie rod ends to finish up that part of my build. Provided they are not too expensive, I am looking to buy some from Ford, Jegs, Summitt, etc. Does anyone know which tie rod ends (part #'s) I need and where best to purchase them?

    As always, thanks for your help.

  2. #2
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Moog ES2150RL tie rod ends fit perfectly and are a nice upgrade over the kit provided ones. Also recommend 9-13101G Energy Suspension dust boots. Not expensive and the poly boots hold up a lot better than rubber ones.
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    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    As Paul says...the Moog's are a nice upgrade. Guess which one is which....

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    BadAsp427's Avatar
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    So on the subject of Tie Rod ends... I'm getting ready to put my build on the ground (today) and yesterday I did a preliminary alignment to get it close. Two things, I found it very odd that you have to pull the tie rod off the spindle in order to adjust, and not just turn the shaft coming out of the rack... and second, on my DS the tie rod is all the way in on it adjustment to get me to a near 0" toe. I have the manual rack from ffr circa 2015. I did not see anywhere stating that I needed to cut anything. Also, with both the front very close to 0" toe, the PS has about 3 1/2" of threads showing where the DS is significantly less. I have the rack centered... it takes a full 3.1 turns lock to lock and I have it centered at 1.55 turns back from lock so I'm extremely close to dead center. Anyone have helpful insight to this?

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  5. #5
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAsp427 View Post
    So on the subject of Tie Rod ends... I'm getting ready to put my build on the ground (today) and yesterday I did a preliminary alignment to get it close. Two things, I found it very odd that you have to pull the tie rod off the spindle in order to adjust, and not just turn the shaft coming out of the rack... and second, on my DS the tie rod is all the way in on it adjustment to get me to a near 0" toe. I have the manual rack from ffr circa 2015. I did not see anywhere stating that I needed to cut anything. Also, with both the front very close to 0" toe, the PS has about 3 1/2" of threads showing where the DS is significantly less. I have the rack centered... it takes a full 3.1 turns lock to lock and I have it centered at 1.55 turns back from lock so I'm extremely close to dead center. Anyone have helpful insight to this?
    No, it's not necessary to pull the tie rod end off the spindle to adjust. Back off the jam nut and also remove the clamp on the small end of the rubber boot. Then you can turn the inner tie rod. Some boots have a removable clamp so it's easy to put back on. Others have the more permanent pinched on cinch clamps. Those you'll need to cut off. Then replace with a removable clamp or even a robust sized tie wrap. Some inner tie rods have flats for a wrench so they're easy to turn. Some don't. A trick I learned on here if there's no flat is add a second jam nut. Then with those backed off, you can tighten them against each other to turn the inner tie rod. Better than using vice grips or whatever to grab the round rod and marking it up.

    It's not unusual to have to cut off a little bit of the inner tie rods when using the kit provided tie rod ends since they have blind holes. Just make sure to leave plenty of threads. FWIW, the Moog tie rod ends I posted about have open ends so it's not necessary to cut them. Also easy to see thread engagement that way. But I also completely understand it doesn't feel good to not use perfectly good kit provided parts. I haven't used that particular rack so can't comment about why it's not showing the same amount of threads on each side when centered.

    Also one word of caution. Be careful about drawing any conclusions about toe (and cutting things...) with the overall alignment not done plus the suspension hanging at full droop. At the very least, push the suspension up to roughly ride height, e.g. LCA's approximately level. Usually possible if you back off the coilover springs all the way. Then do a rough setting on caster and camber. Then you'll be in the ballpark to work with toe.
    Last edited by edwardb; 10-13-2018 at 05:59 AM.
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  6. #6
    Boydster's Avatar
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    Agree with Paul. Ride height needs to be at least roughly set, then toe, caster and camber all need to be worked together. And even then, toe should be the last tweak. I suspect that's where you're seeing the difference in tie rod exposed threads.
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    Thanks guys... I'm pretty good with the idea of all of the components working together as I've set up several race cars in my years... I was just wondering about this on this rack. Thanks Paul on the idea of cutting the boot clamp... It just seems odd... I do not have any wrench flats on my inner rods so I'll have to work with that. I also figured out the reason for the difference on either end. The rack is actually not center, it is off set a bit to the DS side in the frame. Just about 1" or so. But that explains why there is a bit more threads on the PS than on the DS. Thanks again Paul and Boyd... Looks like the Power train is going in today... Wow, all ready???

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAsp427 View Post

    The rack is actually not center, it is off set a bit to the DS side in the frame. Just about 1" or so. But that explains why there is a bit more threads on the PS than on the DS.

    Yes - the rack "housing" is not perfectly centered - this does not matter.

    But the actual moving part of the rack does need to be centered - so you should not have differing threads showing on your inner tie rods.

    Otherwise you're setting up strange geometry side to side with the inner tie rod ends at differing positions (wheels straight ahead).


    The fact that the rack housing is not perfectly centered is why you generally need a different number of steering limiters on each side (to keep the tires / wheels off the LCAs / sheet metal).


    Hope that makes sense.

  9. #9
    BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Thanks Mike... :-)

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  10. #10
    Senior Member karlos's Avatar
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    Common misconception that centering the rack means centering the steering wheel at the midpoint between full-lock-left and full-lock-right. It does not. If set up this way you'll end up with significantly unequal outer tie rod thread engagement (as you've already found out). This is happening because the rack housing is not perfectly centered in the FFR chassis. What you need to do instead is center the position of the rack’s inner tie rod ends in the suspension. This may help.


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    I have same issue with my 33'. Back ordered 200 units and it may be NOV before they can fill orders. I asked for a recommended part to buy local, they said MOOG 87-93 Mustang. Order at Rock Auto for $19 each plus $6 to ship. Got them in ONE day and installed same day. You will have to buy 2ea, 9/16 - 18 jamb nuts, they don't come in box. Now, after seeing the F5 units on this thread, the MOOG units are far superior and worth the money too me. Now I can move forward....

  12. #12
    BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlos View Post
    Common misconception that centering the rack means centering the steering wheel at the midpoint between full-lock-left and full-lock-right. It does not. If set up this way you'll end up with significantly unequal outer tie rod thread engagement (as you've already found out). This is happening because the rack housing is not perfectly centered in the FFR chassis. What you need to do instead is center the position of the rack’s inner tie rod ends in the suspension. This may help.


    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...etup-Procedure
    Karl,
    Thanks for this information. I really like your post you shared a while back... That will be a project I'll get done in the near future...
    Carl

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 (#8 of 20) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
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  13. #13
    Member Randy's's Avatar
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    I ordered the Moog tie rod ends and upgraded dust boots. Thanks much for the info/advice. Now my question has to do with the jam nuts. The Moog tie rod ends did not come with jam nuts (they did come with the castle nuts) and I do not see the jam nuts listed anywhere on my FFR part sheets. I have to assume that they will come with the FFR tie rod ends when they finally ship them. Does that sound right? If so, I need to buy some from my local hardware store. As long as they are grade 8, am I good?

  14. #14
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy's View Post
    I ordered the Moog tie rod ends and upgraded dust boots. Thanks much for the info/advice. Now my question has to do with the jam nuts. The Moog tie rod ends did not come with jam nuts (they did come with the castle nuts) and I do not see the jam nuts listed anywhere on my FFR part sheets. I have to assume that they will come with the FFR tie rod ends when they finally ship them. Does that sound right? If so, I need to buy some from my local hardware store. As long as they are grade 8, am I good?
    That's weird. I've bought them several times and remember them always coming with the jam nut. There was a little plastic bag with the jam nut, rubber boot, castle nut, cotter pin and grease fitting. Looking at several on-line listings are the same as I remember. Maybe something's changed or maybe it's a mistake. Yes I would say they're grade 8. Quick Google says they're 9/16"-18 SAE threads.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
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    They carry no load, only prevent the shaft from rotating, no need for a grade 8. The tie rod ends aren't a grade 8 material, so not sure why the nut would be?
    Last edited by rich grsc; 10-18-2018 at 08:29 AM.

  16. #16
    Member Randy's's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. I picked up the jam nuts from my local Fastenal dealer. For what it's worth, I purchased the Moog tie rod ends from JEGS. They came with the boot already on and a sealed plastic bag that held the castle nut, cotter pin and grease fitting; no jam nuts.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Kool AC's Avatar
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    I just received the same Moog tie rod ends from Rock Auto and jam nuts were not included. Cost cutting measure?
    MkIV Complete Kit #9423, Gen 3 Coyote, TKO-600, IRS Torsen 3.73, Wilwoods, DA Konis - Delivered 9/14/18

  18. #18
    Member JETAV8R's Avatar
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    I just received the same rod ends from Summit this week and also no jamb nuts included.

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    The Breeze 35236 is a Unisteer 8021250 which I believe is equivalent to what FFR supplies. They come with a full height "jam" nut, 90 degree elbow grease fitting, and use a nylock nut instead of a castle nut and lock washer. We used to care about the height of the tie rod end - wanted it short in height to get the tie rod as close as possible to the steering arm (raise the outer end , lower the inner end by lowering the rack). I don't know about the Moog but the OEM Mustang ones were taller. You can also trim these outer ends if you are running out of threads on the inner ends due to the rack extenders. Not sure if you can do that with the Moog design or at least do it as much. I have never had to trim the inners or the outers but many others have.
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