Wyoming GTM Underway

[jamesfr58]

Thanks Sean for the comment, works been getting in the way lately but I am able to get down to the shop in the evening. Tonight still working on the roof scoop and preparing it for fiberglass before attaching to roof with panel bond and will finish with fiberglass.

Here the roof is with the gel coat removed exposing fiberglass to insure a good bond

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Edges of the roof scoop with the gel coat removed and sitting in place

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Finally, the scoop placed and centered with panel bond waiting until tomorrow to finish fiberglass work

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Hope this helps anyone who might be looking for an idea or different way to skin the cat as we all know there are many way to get to the same end building one of these GTM's

[Shoeless]

This is great stuff!!! I'm sure there are several examples of how to do this out there, I really need to research some more, but would you mind sharing your material names as you go along?

[jamesfr58]

Sean, you bet I can share the materials I am using. The panel bond agent I am using is 3M 8115 two part panel bonder, but you will need a special calking type device to dispense that can be purchased on Amazon or several other places. I works really well bonding the fiberglass parts. Here is link on Amazon but you can get it from any auto parts store or other places. Since I live in small town with almost nothing here I have to order almost everything on line....

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Adhesive-M...1529139&sr=8-2

[Shoeless]

Sean, you bet I can share the materials I am using. The panel bond agent I am using is 3M 8115 two part panel bonder, but you will need a special calking type device to dispense that can be purchased on Amazon or several other places. I works really well bonding the fiberglass parts. Here is link on Amazon but you can get it from any auto parts store or other places. Since I live in small town with almost nothing here I have to order almost everything on line....

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Adhesive-M...1529139&sr=8-2

Awesome!!!

[jamesfr58]

Well I hope and think I am getting the hang of doing the body work or at least I am trying. With the roof scoop on I decided to at least finish our the roof ready for high build primer before moving on as I have everything covered to work on the roof. So here are some pictures of the progress and my learning experience:

Removed the clamps holding scoop after attaching with 3M 8115 panel bond. Added a strip of fiberglass to the long edge to help attached and seal the outer edge of the scoop and roof seams ground down and first layer of Evercoat Rage Gold lightweight filler applied:

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Second skim coat of filler over the entire roof to form and smooth out waves on roof prior to spraying with High build primer. The roof now is smooth and make nice transition from scoop to outside edge. Still have some work to do on the scoop side:

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[jamesfr58]

Thought I would post this also, this is my body working cart that has everything I am using to do the body work on board. Built a rack to hold the spools of sand paper on the same side as the bin attached that holds my sanding blocks of various sizes and shapes:

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Also found a good use for my wife's old fitted sheets (the ones that go over the mattress) I have them over engine and in interior to catch all the dust and sanding shavings, they work great as the one in the interior I can get around the harness bar on one end and around the body front end and the elastic hold them in place and form a sort of bag and catch the shavings. The interior is really clean under the sheet and in the engine compartment it fits up around the two filters I have and the hood hinges then back to the frame at the rear of the car. Both do a good job of catching and holding the shavings. This the the one covering the interior shaped like a bowl:

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And just to show an idea, I built all the stand for the metal working equipment I have, albeit small it still take up a lot of room in shop if on separate stands of sitting floor when not in use. So I build these stands with casters that can be locked to keep them from moving and mounted the equipment on them. The good side is the can be rolled together, inside each other and take up very little space vs. having each piece on a stand that you would have to pick up to move around. At my age now I don't want to have to pickup anything to move it LOL

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[Edgeman]

Use a leaf blower to remove the last of the dust out of the garage. Best thing for getting the garage clean of all that dust.

[jamesfr58]

Had not thought of using leaf blower but makes more since than using the air hose that I have been using. It blower everything everywhere, but the leaf blower with low pressure air would work better to get dust headed out the door without bowing it up into the air as well. Thanks for the tip, never thought about using anything else besides the air hose!!

[jamesfr58]

Back to the adventure of body work 101, or my steep learning curve as today I was back at it the shop before leaving for a week on business. I got all the seams on the body ready for filler and finished the work on the drivers side roof blending the scoop into the roof. Here is today's progress:

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Think I have gotten the scoop molded into the the roof with nice curve and does not look to bad. Shane or anyone else if you have any ideas or if you see that I am doing something not quite right please let me know. This is my first time at doing body work and not sure what can or should not be done. As you can see in the pictures although the roof has food smooth curve and transitions to scoop like I though it should I do have exposed fiberglass smoothed and not sure what effect that will have on the paint. Will take any and all advice before I get to far along. Thanks

[Presto51]

Back to the adventure of body work 101, or my steep learning curve as today I was back at it the shop before leaving for a week on business. I got all the seams on the body ready for filler and finished the work on the drivers side roof blending the scoop into the roof. Here is today's progress:

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Think I have gotten the scoop molded into the the roof with nice curve and does not look to bad. Shane or anyone else if you have any ideas or if you see that I am doing something not quite right please let me know. This is my first time at doing body work and not sure what can or should not be done. As you can see in the pictures although the roof has food smooth curve and transitions to scoop like I though it should I do have exposed fiberglass smoothed and not sure what effect that will have on the paint. Will take any and all advice before I get to far along. Thanks

James,

Since you asked, what I see from your pictures: When you see spots come through the filler, those usually mean they are high spots, and you stopped at a good place. You will want to add another layer of filler to the whole area, guide coat and block some more. When you block down to where you either see, no guide coat, or raw fiberglass,, and red gel coat popping through again, stop block sanding, blow the dust off, with a flat palm of you hand, (no finger tipping allowed) feel in long strokes to see if you can feel any waves.

The area at the rear of the scoop it looks like a rather large void in the fiberglass, fill the deep hole with reinforced filler. After that you can use your regular filler to smooth out the back side.

The left front of the scoop looks like there is areas of shiny black gel coat, you would want to rough it up some more before adding any filler.

Last thing I would like to mention, make sure that there is no loose, hard, edges around your repair. ( edges of the fiberglass to scoop that did not adhere and stick up. Try to feather then back to a spot with they make a smooth transition)

You doing OK just keep blocking, add filler where there is low spots, guide coat, block some-more, repeat as necessary. When all the hard work is over and your GTM is painted you can knock back some adult beverages and really enjoy the fruits of hard labor, like my friend Michael and I did https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...os-of-GTM-327-!

Yes that is shameless plug but you can see what is possible.

Ron

[jamesfr58]

Ron

Thanks for the advise and you GTM looks great. I have filled the back of the scoop now and finished passengers side as well as far as I intend to go now. I have to remove the body again to make a few adjustments so I am only taking the body work so for for now. I do intend to coat it again one last time and have ordered some thinner for the filler that should make it easier to skin coat and final sand. I also ordered some of the guide power (was told it was better than paint) to use when I am putting the the final skim coat of filler to hopefully make it smooth (no wave is my hope) as you mentioned you can feel some waves but wanted to get basic shaping done first. The entire scoop is roughed up now and i still have some work to do in the front area but the basic shape is complete. Here are some updated pictures prior to final skim coat and sanding with some close ups of the rear of the scoop.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

We do go about installing the roof scoop a bit different here. I never apply fiberglass mat/resin over anything on the exterior of the car. The roof scoop is normally solid all the way to the front of the roof and we leave it that way other than just cutting the opening for the scoop. There is normally a lip on the leading edge of the scoop that extends into the windshield opening and we cut that lip off and just flush the edge of the scoop with the edge of the roof. We cut the sides of the scoop panel down so that there is about a 1" strip on each side of the scoop that contacts the roof, and we take that 1" strip and feather it down to a knife edge. Then we get the scoop positioned on the roof exactly where we want it, drill thru the edges into the roof and cleco the roof scoop right to the roof....placing the clecos wherever needed to hold the scoop tight to the roof. Then trace around the scoop, remove it and rough up the bottom of the scoop and the top of the roof where the scoop makes contact with the roof with 36 grit. We also block the whole roof with 180 grit. Clean everything up and bond the roof scoop on with 3M 8115.....paddle the 8115 into any and all voids along the edges so that it is one solid piece when cured. Once it's cured, remove the clecos, rough up all of the cured/exposed 8115 with 80 grit and apply a strip of short strand fiberfill body filler where the scoop transitions to the roof...where the filler would be the thickest (and also force that down into the cleco holes). Block that down and from there, we pretty much skim coat the entire roof from the door openings up to the roof scoop (also covering the fiberfill we just applied) with lightweight body filler and block the whole thing down.

[jamesfr58]

Well back in town still working more that I want at times but got some time to go back to the shop and attempt to figure out this body work stuff. This was the one thing besides the upholstery I have never done. Got the upholstery more or less figured out and it has been going good, but this body work is a challenge.

Ron thanks again for the kind words and input on how to work the body for painting. And have to thank Shane as well, you have a better way to attach the roof scoop that the way I did it. It will come out like I want it but did cause myself some extra work. It was already on when I read you response but was good to know and shows all of us a different and sometime better way of getting to the same end.

I finished shaping, filling any small voids where i is attached to the roof with 8115 and ruffed up the hood scoop, here is what it looks like for the front now.

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The roof is ready for a glaze finishing coat so I started to work on the back half of the GTM and have the rear flat deck done, filled and ready for finishing coat. Here is what it looked like filled, then with a black powder guide coat and final blocking. Came out nice and only had a couple of places very small I added some Metal Coat Glaze to fill up small dips by the cut outs for eh rear wing.

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This picture show the back deck, the side seam blocked and ready for finishing glaze to the roof on one side, have not started the other side. But notice the floor, you cant see the colored tiles under the car. I knew this would be messy and I have a dust collector and shop vac i have been using but dang never thought there would be this much dust I would say around 1/2 gallon of Rage Ultralight on the floor......

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[Presto51]

" I knew this would be messy and I have a dust collector and shop vac i have been using but dang never thought there would be this much dust I would say around 1/2 gallon of Rage Ultralight on the floor......

Yes body and paint work is very messy, indeed. Lol

As an FYI: Have you mocked up the hatch with the glass on it? The last GTM I helped out on the fitment of the hatch, with the hatch glass to the quarter panels was interesting and challenging to say the least.

Ron

[jamesfr58]

Ron, yes I have had the hatch on and operation but still need to ensure I have even and same clearance around the hatch. I removed it to make it easier to reach inside the body to work on side scoops etc. but will put it back on shortly. By the way thanks again for the advice and support....

As others have mentioned, it is really good idea to look for voids in the fiberglass body. Here is one I found on the edge where the hatch flange is and will fill it now that I have it dug out to good material.

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Here is the side scoop at the 1/4 window on the drivers side fit up before being made permanent. I have the 1/4 window banks in place and need to finish filling, sanding and will paint the inside flat black before the are permanently attached but this give me a good idea of what they will look like when attached.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

On your first photo there....yes, if you're not doing this on your body, you need to. We take a chisel and drag it across ALL of the radiused edges of the body....around the grille openings, wheel vent openings, roof edges, wheel arches, door sill area, hatch opening, door openings, side scoop openings......anywhere there is a tight radius on the body. We just drag the edge of the chisel (not cutting into or scratching the gelcoat....just putting pressure on the edge and dragging it opposite the direction you would use it to cut) and listening carefully. If you get to a spot where you hear a crackling sound, it means you just dragged over a void. Back up and use the chisel to dig the void out. Sometimes you'll just hear the crackle sound and sometimes the chisel point will literally fall right into the void and break it open. Dig out all loose material, rough up the surface and fill.

On the quarter window scoop install, I do those much the same way as the roof scoop. Once you have it fitted to the body (looks like you have an excellent fit there!) rough up the perimeter (inside and outside) about 3/4" back on the part from the edge with some 36 grit....do that everywhere the scoop meets the body. Rough up the area of the body where it makes contact with 36 grit. Wipe everything down with degreaser. Put a bead of 8115 around the perimeter of the part and work the epoxy into the fiberglass (I use a wood craft stick). Lay a tall bead of 8115 on the body where the scoop contacts the body. Carefully set the scoop in place on the body and get it cleco'd down (just like you have it) anywhere that it wants to spring away from the body. Try not to slide the part around....just set it exactly in place and cleco it down. Take craft stick around the perimeter and trowel the 8115 around all of the edges so the adhesive is overlapping the edge, creating sort of a fillet weld from the scoop to the body. I do this all the way around, along the inside and outside of the scoop opening as much as I can......or put on a rubber glove and smear some on the inside of the opening with your finger. Leave it set overnight and pull the cleco's out the next day and finish off with bodyfiller where needed.

[jamesfr58]

Shane,
Thanks for the advice and tips, I was checking but your method edges for voids along with other thin areas but you method will work better than the way I was trying to find them. I have both of the side scoops on the car now and will need to finish blending them in to the body. Not sure how I want to do this or what they should like when blended into the roof line. I know its builders choice but I know you have done just a few of these. Got any word of wisdom or maybe picture before painted?

Anyway here is what the look on the car. The fist picture is where I primed and painted flat black under the side scoop prior to attaching to the car. Don't know is you can see the pencil lines but I put the side scoop up tote car and drew a line around the outside, then drew a second line about 1/4 inside the first line. Used this line to mask off and paint inside flat black. Used 40 grit to rough it up prior to painting where the scoop will be attached with 8115. Had to use #6 screws to to hold in place, my cleco's were just barely lone enough and they kept popping out. The screws are the same size hole so worked great and still have the same size hole to fill.

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This view is looking front to back down the drives side at the roof and side scoop for overall look.

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[jamesfr58]

Shane

Thanks for the tip on a better way to find the voids in the fiberglass. Still working on the back of the car and after reading your method of locating the voids I when down to the shop yesterday and started checking the rear section. I would like to tell everyone Shane's method described above really work well and I had no trouble finding 2 more voids on the edge at the rear of the car. These two were right next to each other and could not be seen by looking for them but with the chisel method running the edge I found them easy. For anyone starting the body make sure you check these edges there will be voids that need to be repaired or they will show up later after painting, they were just under the surface as mentioned hard to see with the eye but easy to pop through once you find them.

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Finished attaching the side scoops, here is what they look like with a good fillet bead of 8115 ready for final shaping and blending into the body.

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[Shoeless]

Looking good James!!!

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Shane,
Thanks for the advice and tips, I was checking but your method edges for voids along with other thin areas but you method will work better than the way I was trying to find them. I have both of the side scoops on the car now and will need to finish blending them in to the body. Not sure how I want to do this or what they should like when blended into the roof line. I know its builders choice but I know you have done just a few of these. Got any word of wisdom or maybe picture before painted?

As I mentioned above, I trowel the 8115 into a fillet weld of epoxy around the outer perimeter of the scoop......looking very similar to what you have there. Once cured, I sand down the high spots with sandpaper wrapped around a craft stick and fill in the low spots in much the same way.....make a body filler application tool from a craft stick, so I'm working with the same profile and skim coat that whole fillet weld area with lightweight bodyfiller and then go back with my craft stick with sandpaper stuck to it and finish sanding that area down. I keep the original profile and radiused edge of the body around that side scoop area and just basically massage that radiused fillet weld into a smooth transition. I don't have any pics handy of a close-up of that specific area....

[jamesfr58]

Thanks Shane, I did you to your website and looked at a blown up picture of one you did but the above mentioned method brings it all into focus now. I have been working on the back hatch while think about a couple of other items I want to change. The hatch was on once before but here I have gone back and started to get a pretty good rough fit of the hatch. Used masking tape to lay out the gap and fix the flange it sit in, you can see the tape on the hatch that I used as guide to grind down outside edge. The gap is stating to look good but will need tome fine tuning...

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Here it is with the back glass window sitting in place on the hatch. I do not intend to use the glass but instead am using the aluminum hatch glass replacement that Shane at VRaptor Speedworks came up with that is louvered. I put it together last night and here is what it look like before it is set on the car. This should let a lot of heat out of the engine compartment and I think will look good as well.

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[jamesfr58]

Finished the aluminum cover, used the 3M 8115 as recommended by Shane (VRaptor Speedworks) to make fillets on each connection between the braces the the cover fins themselves. It really worked out well and is very simple to build and shape. I have several items incorporated in my build that were fabricated by Shane, and would recommend to anyone the parts he has developed over the years having built over 30 GTM for customers. They add to the functionality and design of the GTM and for me this has been great to have some one who has built and developed these part that Chance our builds.

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[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Thanks for the kind words! That alum hatch panel should make a pretty huge difference in engine bay temps. You have a really amazing build going on there....something you'll be able to brag about for sure!

[jamesfr58]

Well here it is the Aluminum hatch cover in place of the glass. It is just sitting on the hatch right not but the fit is good and I need to modify one of the curves on the passenger’s side before the hatch flattens out as it is to tight and does not match the curve on the driver side or the shape of the body itself for it to sit all the way down on the hatch.

Here the cover is sitting on the hatch

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Looking through the cover and the site line through the car is very good, the rear view is not obstructed in any way.
A side view of the cover sitting on the hatch

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And a view from the side

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Again, will have to give a shout out to Shane this is great option and will allow heat to escape the rear engine compartment.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Thanks! That's going to look great.....and as you pointed out, the nice part (compared to the glass) is that you can trim the edges to fit and curve the panel as-needed instead of being stuck with the fixed shape and curve of the glass.

[beeman]

Looking great, James!
Are you going to blend the aluminum into the fiberglass or keep a seam around the aluminum?
Thanks again to Shane for another great GTM product.

[jamesfr58]

I am planning on blending it into the fiberglass right now but you know how it goes as we move along building the GTM we go from plan A to at least plan E if luck before we decide ti right....

[jamesfr58]

Well since traveling is out of the question I have had a lot more time to work on the GTM so been in the shop every day this week. Since I have most all of the parts might stay home and keep building. I got the box to french in the third brake light done and installed today. It is just ruffed in now, still have to fiberglass from behind and would like to find a way to make the cutout match the light better, fit more to the shape of the light. Have an idea might try tomorrow but for now this is what it looks like set back so the light does not protrude beyond the back of the car. It is a small space to the thin light worked well. Had to trim the flange of light as it was designed to be flush mounted and the flange would stick out beyond the back of the car.

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[jamesfr58]

Found a way to cast the light in place using some 1/8 inch upholstery foam, masking tape and forming in place with Evercoat Metal Glaze. Positioned the light and cast around it in place.

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Knew I could not get material to the back of the form holding the light so use the 1/8 in. foam to back the Metal Glaze and just formed the front section. Pulled the light and filled behind the formed section, so now the light is in place and still have to finishing work to complete but ended up closing the gaps and forming to the light .

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[jamesfr58]

Well to finish the tale of the recessed third break light, I thought I would leave you all with this, just what it took to make this one little change. I estimate I have 12 hours from start to finish, still learning this body work but will try anything once and when finished it came out pretty good. Hard to believe this took so long and maybe if I was better at body work it would not have but at least I got it done and looking like I wanted it.

To start with I purchased a universal third brake light and had to cut the flange off the outside edge so it was slim line and I could recess the light. Then built a fiberglass 3-sided case for the light to be glassed into the body, cut the rear of the car and fiber glassed the box into the body. Once that was done, I installed the light and needed to mold it in place to match the contour of the light. Then remove the light and finish filling in the box to match the light, fill and sand, fill and sand and fill and sand multiple times. Until finally it looks like the picture attached of the light recessed into the body with even spacing around the light. And the moral of this story…….

While we all want our build to be the best it can be, designed like we want, it is sure is a lot of work sometime for the small little items that set it a part from others and make our dream come true…..

Well worth all the trouble, sore hands working with the small pieces of sandpaper, small filler applicator, craft sticks, files and dermal tool. Now on to the next item!

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[beeman]

Yes, things like that add quite a bit of time to a build, but really make yours stand out in the GTM community. It's one thing to slap a kit together like a big puzzle, but customization shows you put your heart into it. Personally, I think that the rear end of the GTM could use some beautification as delivered, things like your 3rd brake light really take it to the next level. Keep up the great work!

[Edgeman]

Just a thought putting your 3rd brake light in the wing. Also for side marker lights the Aston Martin vantage lights are a great fit. Check out the link.

https://edgemansgtm.weebly.com/body-fitting-2.html

[beeman]

James is doing an elevated APR type wing so he had to do it where it is.

[jamesfr58]

Thanks for tip Edgeman, have been looking at different side marker lights but had not looked at these yet. looking for something on the smaller side that will not stick out from the body or that I can recess to the body has clean lines when completed. Thanks again for the tip.

[jamesfr58]

Beeman

Yea I tend to agree on the rear end, trying to make it look a close as possible to a production car or at least not like a quick build kit car. Having a blank canvas to work from, you can dream up all sorts of things some good and as I have found out some bad but has been fun seeing what can be done to make it mine and improve the looks. After spending countless hours just starring at it and imagining what could be not to mention the really long time building the car like everyone here they all what that personal touch and that is what make it interesting. And your build, well it's off the wall and very interesting the thing you have modified and done. I for one have enjoyed following your journey to reinvent the car like no one else I have seen. Keep up the good work and we will keep reading.

[jamesfr58]

Been in the shop again as not going anywhere opens up a lot of free time. Started blending in the 1/4 window scoops and working on the hatch area. Shane's advice on using craft sticks really works great, so thanks for the advice go it done in one try with only 1 low spot. In fitting the hatch I had the same issue as others with the passengers side of the hatch fitting as it should. You can see where I sanded through the fiberglass using a dremel tool opening up that side to fit the hatch, will have to re-glass and do some build up in area not sanded but got it roughed in and will continue to work the hatch before I attache the aluminum hatch cover on the fiberglass hatch.

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[Edgeman]

The side markers fit the contour of the car perfect. I just 3M 8115 on the back side, worked out like an OEM fit. A lot of them are not DOT approved and to pass inspection these were one that would.

[jamesfr58]

Got the rear hatch reinstalled and adjusted to final fit up. Still need to work on the gaps around the hatch but till finish installing the aluminum hatch cover before I finish setting the gaps. Here is the the hatch in place with good clearance now with the body and operating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVV5dYxXqEM

Got it adjusted so you can close with one finger and a little pressure as you can see. Below are some separate photos of the aluminum cover and the fit as it is now. Will keep working on the gaps, trimming and adding fiberglass to the body once the aluminum cover is in permanently in place.

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The intent is to blend the aluminum cover into the hatch when installed for what I hope is seamless look. Again have to thank Shane at VRaptor as it look like this will greatly reduce the amount of body work required to match the aluminum hatch cover up with body verses matching the glass window to the body. Will post some pictures of the finished hatch cover when complete.

[jamesfr58]

Here is the video with out having to go to you tube.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

The intent is to blend the aluminum cover into the hatch when installed for what I hope is seamless look. Again have to thank Shane at VRaptor as it look like this will greatly reduce the amount of body work required to match the aluminum hatch cover up with body verses matching the glass window to the body. Will post some pictures of the finished hatch cover when complete.

I always dread trying to fit the glass to body on these cars. Depending on how much material I have to take out of the body to create clearance, I have been taking a pie cut out of the body around the hatch opening (cutting the "drip rail" off of the body) and then bonding the drip rail back on. Trimming some thin aluminum to fit the body is much easier than trimming the body to fit the glass! Looks like you have things fitting and working great!