Sagging side pipe

[Papa]

My driver's side pipe that needed "help" getting it aligned seems to want to droop. I'm using slightly smaller bolts to allow up/down adjustment. I've tightened the bolts at the 4-to-4 flange as much as I dare, but it doesn't seem to hold the pipe in the proper place. Any tricks I can use, Viagra for side pipes maybe, to keep the pipe in its proper location would be helpful.

[steno]

FFR headers or J-Pipes?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Unfortunately with the stack of wedges that it took to get the pipe to run parallel with the body it's going to be hard to keep that joint secure...just a little at each face will add up to a significant change at the end of the sidepipe. Best I can come up with is to raise the rear hanger to keep some tension on it.

Jeff

[steno]

I put plaster washers on my hangers and put a hose clamp around it to pull it up. Worked out perfect.

[Jeff Kleiner]

FFR headers or J-Pipes?

Sten,
Neither. Dave has 4 into 1 into 4 long tube headers from another manufacturer.

Jeff

[Papa]

Unfortunately with the stack of wedges that it took to get the pipe to run parallel with the body it's going to be hard to keep that joint secure...just a little at each face will add up to a significant change at the end of the sidepipe. Best I can come up with is to raise the rear hanger to keep some tension on it.

Jeff

Jeff,

I actually removed one of the wedges you installed to pull the pipe in a bit closer to the body (not parallel) but closer at the end of the pipe. It's the up/down that I'm trying to solve now. I wonder if I can try to get a larger diameter bolt back in that would reduce the up/down play?

Dave

[Jeff Kleiner]

Jeff,

I actually removed one of the wedges you installed to pull the pipe in a bit closer to the body (not parallel) but closer at the end of the pipe. It's the up/down that I'm trying to solve now. I wonder if I can try to get a larger diameter bolt back in that would reduce the up/down play?

Dave

Sure, if it doesn't mess too much with the horizontal axis going back to 3/8" (even if only on a couple of them) should limit the rotation at the flange.

Jeff

[JohnK]

I'm just spit-balling here, and have no idea if this would actually work, but I'll throw it out there for you to ponder.

In the bicycling world, carbon fiber parts slippage is a big problem, as you can't really torque down fasteners very tight into carbon fiber - think seat posts and handlebars. It's standard practice to use carbon friction paste when assembling things on a carbon fiber bike that you don't want to slip, and you can't really crank down on the fastener a whole lot. Carbon friction paste is basically just grease with very fine abrasive particles mixed in.

Not sure if a high-temp friction paste exists, but a another option would be to mix in some fine abrasive powder into some Permatex ultra copper to try to give the surfaces a little more "bite" and keep them from slipping. Again, no idea if this will work or not.

[Ducky2009]

Is the entire pipe dropping or just the tail? Did you install the mid/rear hangers? Can't you increase the rear hanger height?

[Papa]

Is the entire pipe dropping or just the tail? Did you install the mid/rear hangers? Can't you increase the rear hanger height?

I have Gas-N pipes with just a single hanger that mounts about 1/2 way along the pipe right at the 2" tube that drops the floor in front of the seats. I can grab the end of the pipe and lift it about an inch by hand. I'm using smaller diameter bolts to allow for some up/down adjustability to get the pipe level, which I feel is also allowing it to droop.

[GoDadGo]

How tight are your header bolts between the flange and the head?

If they are just a little loose at the head, it would give you a pretty big sag where the side pipes attach to the header.

Just spitballing regarding this possibility because I had this happened to me and tightening them up yielded almost 1/2" at the side of the car.

1/16" sag at the head would have a bigger impact then you might think.

Can't hurt to check them.

[Just puttering]

Have someone lift the pipe while you look closely at where its moving. If you have a stack of adjustment shims is it posible to spot weld them together so they have no "flex" then bolt back together?

And / or go back to the larger bolts and drill (shave, file, ??) the shims where needed?

[j.miller]

Give it a lift with a "Bro" or a "Manzier".....6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

[Papa]

How tight are your header bolts between the flange and the head?

If they are just a little loose at the head, it would give you a pretty big sag where the side pipes attach to the header.

Just spitballing regarding this possibility because I had this happened to me and tightening them up yielded almost 1/2" at the side of the car.

1/16" sag at the head would have a bigger impact then you might think.

Can't hurt to check them.

Steve,

The headers are solid to the heads - no movement there. All the movement is at the side pipe to header flange.

Dave

[Papa]

Have someone lift the pipe while you look closely at where its moving. If you have a stack of adjustment shims is it posible to spot weld them together so they have no "flex" then bolt back together?

And / or go back to the larger bolts and drill (shave, file, ??) the shims where needed?

Just a single shim (wedge), but with gaskets. I may pull it apart and go back to the copper sealant.

Dave

[Derald Rice]

IIRC, you have the Gas-n-pipes. Their mid mount is very flexible, and does not give a lot of vertical support. I will suggest that the rubber isolator is stretching and allowing the side pipe to drop. Put a hose clamp around the isolator, and then bring the side pipe up to where you want it. And to keep the hose clamp from slipping off, use fender washers to create a flange to keep the hose clamp in place.

[GoDadGo]

Steve,

The headers are solid to the heads - no movement there. All the movement is at the side pipe to header flange.

Dave

Well That Stinks!

[Mark Reynolds]

Lapping compound sounds like John K's friction paste.
You could also make a "gasket" out of a sheet of 220 wet or dry.
But since I've never heard of this before, I think you should try tightening the further first. Worst case is you snap or strip a screw and have to replace it.

[Papa]

Thanks for all the replies and ideas. I think I'll start with removing the gaskets and using copper RTV along with marking and opening the holes on the header to accept the standard size bolts with the pipe in a level position.

Dave

[Tony_G]

Sounds to me the hanger is not mounted high enough. I installed mine by first putting a jack under the end of the pipe. Jacked it up very carefully to just above where I want it. Then drilled my mounting holes for the hanger. Tighten everything up then remove the jack. It will sag just a bit but that is why you raise it a bit higher than you want it.