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Thread: Coolant expansion tank

  1. #1
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    Coolant expansion tank

    Hi,
    I have seen where people have used expansion tanks for the coyote ( I saw pics of edwardb’s car).
    My question is that from what I understand the expansion tank is supposed to be above the heads and it looks tough to get it that high. Does anyone know how high in the heads coolant flows? I have seen coolant diagrams but they don’t really show where or how high in the heads the coolant is.
    When I think about how the system should work I believe that the expansion tank coolant level should just have to stay above the top of the radiator in order to keep the air out of the radiator and that would prevent air from flowing backwards into the engine while it is not running. To me, the only other reason to put the expansion tank at the highest point is to fill the system. This could be done from the top port above the thermostat.
    One last thing, do you need any check valves in the system? I believe I have heard both with and without. Maybe that has to do with the height of the expansion tank.

    Thanks
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  2. #2
    edwardb's Avatar
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    The available hood height and mounting location for an expansion tank (e.g. Moroso) is very similar in the Roadster compared to the OE installation in a Mustang. The height in relation to the heads is nearly the same and isn't an issue. Hard to tell exact perspective from these camera angles, but here's a Mustang pic and then a couple of the tank in my Roadster.







    The system fills fine through the cap in the tank. Goes in as fast you can pour it. The coolant flows from the tank to the "T" fitting on the LH side of the engine by the thermostat housing. As long as the tank level is above this inlet, will fill fine. It's a closed system and once filled works by pressure, not gravity. So some of your concerns are addressed by this understanding.

    In operation, this system works perfectly. Mine has been driven two seasons and nearly 4000 miles and zero engine temp issues. The Coyote in general is cool running and very controlled. Coolant fills are self-burping. Many others have installed the same setup, all with the same report. The system will only work if properly plumbed however. All the hoses used in the OE Mustang installation have to be accounted for, including the one from the top of the tank to the top of the radiator which has a check valve. This post from my build thread gives part number details. Should still be accurate. But the lower radiator hose information may need to be changed if you have the newer radiator from Factory Five vs. the AFCO Racing one in this build.

    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post220495

    Note, for the record, the Factory Five in-line T-filler and manual overflow tank (with the majority of the Coyote ports sealed off) also works OK once it is properly burped. Use of the OE style expansion tank setup is an option based on personal preference.
    Last edited by edwardb; 11-28-2018 at 08:01 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  3. #3
    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    This hose has a check valve its a FORD Mustang piece, pricey. You can see the same hose on Edwards plastic tank.



    The top of the tank comes out 2" higher then the chassis cross bar its attached to. No issues with hood clearance.



    The whole package installed. There are some different style Alloy tanks & they all work as long as you are sure like mine & Edwards they mimic the stock plastic tanks hose pattern. They will not work any better then the FFR tank if the hose connections don't match. The tanks with the proper hose pattern just require that you put water into them, they are self purging.



    Water in my style tank comes up to the place where the top gets wide which is at the top of the radiator. Have not added water in 8,000 miles. Was constantly adding water to an oversized 18" FFR style tank you can see in the top of the picture. Its not used just left it in place.
    Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-28-2018 at 09:43 AM.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
    This hose has a check valve its a FORD Mustang piece, pricey. You can see the same hose on Edwards plastic tank.



    The top of the tank comes out 2" higher then the chassis cross bar its attached to. No issues with hood clearance.



    The whole package installed. There are some different style Alloy tanks & they all work as long as you are sure like mine & Edwards they mimic the stock plastic tanks hose pattern. They will not work any better then the FFR tank if the hose connections don't match. The tanks with the proper hose pattern just require that you put water into them, they are self purging.



    Water in my style tank comes up to the place where the top gets wide which is at the top of the radiator. Have not added water in 8,000 miles. Was constantly adding water to an oversized 18" FFR style tank you can see in the top of the picture. Its not used just left it in place.

    Kevin,
    Do you happin to know the part number for your tank?
    I see that you mounted it to the top rail and it must just miss the hood. Do you support the bottom of the tank at all? It looks like it is secured pretty well at the top. I like Edwardb’s tank but I would have to make a bracket to hold it and estimate how high up it could be. I have been looking at your thread for information Edwardb.
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  5. #5
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    Kevin,
    After looking more closely at yours, it isn’t directly attached to the top of the bar. How did you attach it?
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  6. #6
    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packer fan View Post
    Kevin,
    After looking more closely at yours, it isn’t directly attached to the top of the bar. How did you attach it?
    It attaches to the top of the square bar with 3 fasteners. Each end of the tank has a mounting tab on it. The third is on the bottom near the middle. The square bar lays at an angle to the horizontal so I bent 2 short flat pieces of aluminum stock with an angle to mount the tank top level. A longer third piece of alloy connects the bottom tab & was bent to fit the tank & the square tube.

    Under the letters "DIA" in the second picture you can just make out the rivet that holds the bent alloy to the square tube. The alloy stock is riveted on & the tank is bolted so it can be removed if necessary.

    Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-28-2018 at 02:42 PM.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  7. #7
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    Beautiful

    Thanks
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  8. #8
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  9. #9
    edwardb's Avatar
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    The picture I posted of the plastic expansion tank is in a Mustang. Said so in the post. I was responding to the question about the height of the tank, and was attempting to show how the Mustang location is similar to the tank location in the subsequent pictures of my Roadster with the Moroso tank.

    There are two versions of the Moroso tank. The one pictured by BEAR-AvHistory is the Gen 1 Coyote version. The one I pictured is the Moroso 63806 Gen 2 version. I think plumbing-wise they're the same. Just form/fit difference due to the different Mustangs they're intended for. But don't know that for sure.

    The link I posted to my build thread has the (1) Tank part number, (2) Mounting method (it has to be supported in three places), and (3) Hose part numbers.
    Last edited by edwardb; 11-28-2018 at 06:20 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  10. #10
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    Thanks Edwardb,
    I just ordered the hose to the engine on the bottom and the one with the check valve using the part numbers from your post. I already have the others covered.
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  11. #11
    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    Edward If the Gen II tank has the third larger hose port on the bottom they are functionally the same. The Gen I tank might be a better fit in the COBRA due to the location of the port that connects to the radiator coming out same side the radiators connection is located. The Gen II tank has a forward orientation for this hose.

    No big deal its whatever visually suits.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  12. #12
    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    Edward If the Gen II tank has the third larger hose port on the bottom they are functionally the same. The Gen I tank might be a better fit in the COBRA due to the location of the port that connects to the radiator coming out same side the radiators connection is located. The Gen II tank has a forward orientation for this hose. I also believe the Gen I tank sits lower in the engine compartment & is further away from the hood..

    No big deal its whatever visually suits.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  13. #13
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post

    The link I posted to my build thread has the (1) Tank part number, (2) Mounting method (it has to be supported in three places), and (3) Hose part numbers.
    Thanks
    I just ordered the three hoses including the one that you mentioned was difficult to find. All of them will be here next week including the difficult to find one that they said there were only 6 available in the country. A little pricey but it will be nice to have the proper parts
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  14. #14
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    All,

    I am hijacking this recent thread to get some input on the install on the expansion tank for the Gen 2 install (Moroso 63806).

    Specifically I am working on the install on the tank and cooling lines and wanted to get some feedback on how high I can install the tank without hitting the hood. The early part of this post suggests the top of the tank comes out 2" higher then the chassis cross bar but I believe this is the tank for the Gen1. Is this the same general placement for the Gen 2 tank ?? Any input of the vertical location/placement of the tank would be greatly appreciated.

    Mark
    to. No issues with hood clearance
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

  15. #15
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlewis View Post
    All,

    I am hijacking this recent thread to get some input on the install on the expansion tank for the Gen 2 install (Moroso 63806).

    Specifically I am working on the install on the tank and cooling lines and wanted to get some feedback on how high I can install the tank without hitting the hood. The early part of this post suggests the top of the tank comes out 2" higher then the chassis cross bar but I believe this is the tank for the Gen1. Is this the same general placement for the Gen 2 tank ?? Any input of the vertical location/placement of the tank would be greatly appreciated.

    Mark
    to. No issues with hood clearance
    The information and link I provided in post #2 and mentioned again in post #9 is the Gen 2 tank.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  16. #16
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    Yes understood.

    I'm looking for some guidance on how high I can mount the Gen 2 tank (relative to the 3/4" cross member ?) and still clear the hood ?
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

  17. #17
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlewis View Post
    Yes understood.

    I'm looking for some guidance on how high I can mount the Gen 2 tank (relative to the 3/4" cross member ?) and still clear the hood ?
    It's mounted with brackets on the bottom of the 3/4-inch cross member and resting on the fan shroud. In this location, clears the hood by 3/4-inch or so. All in the link with pictures.

    If you don't have a fan shroud, then you'll need to make something to hold that part of the tank.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  18. #18
    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    Just to be clear on the generation one tank for fitting it into the MK-IV, this will clear the hood without any issues. Both stock & BOSS 302 intakes will fit.



    As far as I know either tank will work with either engine. Tanks are a different shape to fit the different Mustang Chassis.
    Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-08-2018 at 12:58 PM.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  19. #19
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    It's mounted with brackets on the bottom of the 3/4-inch cross member and resting on the fan shroud. In this location, clears the hood by 3/4-inch or so. All in the link with pictures.

    If you don't have a fan shroud, then you'll need to make something to hold that part of the tank.
    OK thanks Paul. I will use the 3/4" cross member as a vertical reference. I will align the bottom of the tank to the bottom of it.

    Keven, Noted on the tank fitment. Thanks for the picture.
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

  20. #20
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlewis View Post
    OK thanks Paul. I will use the 3/4" cross member as a vertical reference. I will align the bottom of the tank to the bottom of it.

    Keven, Noted on the tank fitment. Thanks for the picture.
    No, the mounting flange aligns with the bottom of the 3/4-inch tube. The bottom of the tank is another 1-1/2 to 2 inches lower. If the bottom of the tank were aligned with the tube, the tank would hit the underside of the hood. You can see the 3/4-inch tube, mounting flange, and bottom of the tank in this picture I posted previously.

    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  21. #21
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    No, the mounting flange aligns with the bottom of the 3/4-inch tube. The bottom of the tank is another 1-1/2 to 2 inches lower. If the bottom of the tank were aligned with the tube, the tank would hit the underside of the hood. You can see the 3/4-inch tube, mounting flange, and bottom of the tank in this picture I posted previously
    My bad, meant to say flange, thanks for confirming.
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

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