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Thread: Engine Builder questions

  1. #1
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Engine Builder questions

    So I built my first engine about 5 years ago and it was a sleeved, turbo 2.0 Chevy Cobalt motor. My goal was 500hp or boom. Well I made about 530 crank hp or 472 hp to the wheels of a small domestic economy car. The cobalt SS was fun but i quickly learned that boost lag sucks and numbers are not everything. It was a very fun build and I had to build the motor twice since i blew up the first one without good knowledge of my boost controller. The engine is still racing in Florida 5 years later.

    Fast forward to 2016-17 and I start work on my first V8 build. I bought a short block (machine work) from a company in California and when I got it I checked the clearances on the bearings, the build quality, and many other areas. What I was able to build from there pretty much came out of Summit Racing Catalogs. There is nothing more exhilarating than firing up your own engine for the first time and it not coming apart. On top of that going to the dyno to find that the parts you personally chose with nothing more than forum reading yielded 475 hp.

    So for the guys that have built more than 3 engine, lol, what oil are you using with the following build clearances. I am running about 60 psi at 190 and idle. The journal clearances are

    Crank
    .0019 .0022 .0019 .0018 .0019

    Rods
    .0019 .0020 .0018 .0018 .0018 .0019 .0022 .0018

    I am running 30 weight break in oil at the moment but may change to 5w30 according to the following info I found. How is this affected by the rediculous heat here in texas?

    Some recommended rod bearing oil clearances for various oil viscosities:

    .0015 to .0018 for 0W20 or 5W-20

    .002 to .0024 for 5W-30 or 10W30

    .0025 to .0029 for 10W-40 or 15W40

    .0030 to .004 for 15W-50 or 20W-50


    For main bearings:

    .0015 to .002 for 0W20 or 5W20

    .002 to .0025 for 5W-30 or 10W30

    .0026 to .003 for 10W-40 or 15W40

    .0031 to .0041 for 15W-50 or 20W-50

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    Although the break in oil is 30 weight, that stuff is thick. After you are are done with the break in oil, run 5w-30 Dino oil and see what it does. After 1000 miles, feel free to switch to synthetic.

    60 psi is pretty high for idle.

    You ultimately might need 20 weight.

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    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Are you running 60psi for oil pressure at hot idle? Seems a bit high. Standard volume pump? On my last 383, I ran about 20-25psi at 900RPM. I've always run Amsoil or Mobile 1 10w-30 here in Florida, and I set my clearances at around .002-.0025 for rods and .0025-.003 for main bearings. Yours are a little tighter, so I probably wouldn't go beyond 30.
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    bobl's Avatar
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    Well, I've built more than 3 engines so I guess I can comment... Once you get to drive the car enough to get the oil good and warm I expect your idle pressure will drop some. I'm not a big fan of really thin oils in these old school engines, especially in our hot Texas weather. Your main bearing clearances are a bit tighter than I normally run, so I'd probably go with a 10w30. With a bit more main clearance I like a 10w40. That's my 2 cents. Just don't ask about brand preferences!
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

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    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    I would run 10-30 also. Old school oil weight matching your old school engine. Your clearances are about what I have in my 408W and are a bit tighter than Ford recommends here
    https://performanceparts.ford.com/do...-6013-B347.pdf
    I like them on the tight side and .002 is the min Ford says to use so we are both good to go.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

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    I built my little old 302 very similarly and after a short break in has been on a steady diet of 10-30 Royal Purple. It's seen the 6250 rev limiter hundreds of times as well as lots of long runs at 6K on the road course and hasn't self destructed yet.

    Jeff

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    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    I'm going to agree with Jeff and the others here on the 10-30 for your clearances and climate area . . . living in Las Vegas, I get your heat concerns.
    I do not run a high pressure pump but do have a high volume unit with .0025 mains and rods (I'm very old school and tend to set my engines up a bit loose). I get 60# dead cold at startup, 30# idle at 190°, 45# at highway speeds.

    Like Jeff, my little 302 / 5.0 has been on 10-30 for 16 years with no signs of ever giving up.

    Doc
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

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    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottiec View Post
    Although the break in oil is 30 weight, that stuff is thick. After you are are done with the break in oil, run 5w-30 Dino oil and see what it does. After 1000 miles, feel free to switch to synthetic.

    60 psi is pretty high for idle.

    You ultimately might need 20 weight.
    I am running my second oil change right now with break in. The engine only has about 50 miles on it at the moment but will have a few hundred before I change it again. With this cold winter will it be conducive to running a 5w20 during colder months? I will drive all year round with the mild Texas winters.

    Quote Originally Posted by cv2065 View Post
    Are you running 60psi for oil pressure at hot idle? Seems a bit high. Standard volume pump? On my last 383, I ran about 20-25psi at 900RPM. I've always run Amsoil or Mobile 1 10w-30 here in Florida, and I set my clearances at around .002-.0025 for rods and .0025-.003 for main bearings. Yours are a little tighter, so I probably wouldn't go beyond 30.
    Hot idle at 190 deg 900 rpm. It's a standard mellinger pump. A 383 is going to have lower pressures since the engine design is different than that of a ford. I have read 60psi is typical for sbf.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobl View Post
    Well, I've built more than 3 engines so I guess I can comment... Once you get to drive the car enough to get the oil good and warm I expect your idle pressure will drop some. I'm not a big fan of really thin oils in these old school engines, especially in our hot Texas weather. Your main bearing clearances are a bit tighter than I normally run, so I'd probably go with a 10w30. With a bit more main clearance I like a 10w40. That's my 2 cents. Just don't ask about brand preferences!
    Do you think I should hug out the bearings with a drimmel to ease flow? Lol. I know we don't talk oil brands but she's running amsoil synthetic through and through. 10w30 year round?

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    I would run 10-30 also. Old school oil weight matching your old school engine. Your clearances are about what I have in my 408W and are a bit tighter than Ford recommends here
    https://performanceparts.ford.com/do...-6013-B347.pdf
    I like them on the tight side and .002 is the min Ford says to use so we are both good to go.
    Thanks for the reference, do you build them tighter to allow for wear and tear or to control oil? What is your reasoning behind the tighter tolerances?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    I built my little old 302 very similarly and after a short break in has been on a steady diet of 10-30 Royal Purple. It's seen the 6250 rev limiter hundreds of times as well as lots of long runs at 6K on the road course and hasn't self destructed yet.

    Jeff
    The venerable 302 is also less prone to piston slap and rod angle problems. I am concerned with oiling this stroker. I thought I had read "the traveler" has hundreds of thousands of miles on his car and engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post
    I'm going to agree with Jeff and the others here on the 10-30 for your clearances and climate area . . . living in Las Vegas, I get your heat concerns.
    I do not run a high pressure pump but do have a high volume unit with .0025 mains and rods (I'm very old school and tend to set my engines up a bit loose). I get 60# dead cold at startup, 30# idle at 190°, 45# at highway speeds.

    Like Jeff, my little 302 / 5.0 has been on 10-30 for 16 years with no signs of ever giving up.

    Doc
    Great to hear doc, I'm getting used to car and the quirks and feeling of feedback the car gives me. There is some getting used to the chassis, engine, drivetrain vibes. It's nothing I haven't felt before but trusting the car and instrumental takes time. This thing wants to slide with every shift and throttle press.

  14. #9
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    So next question. Oil control on the pistons and rings. The common misconception has been that 347 use oil. This is false when using a piston that brings the pin below the oil control ring. This engine uses a 5.4" rod but is designed with tighter ring packs. I didnt design this motor for power added so the rings are tight and the compression is 11.5 to 1 with a .039 quench. While concerning myself with oiling what oil viscosity or product would keep oil on the walls of a short ring land piston? Does it get affected by viscosity?

    See image below.

    20181203_214507 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr
    Last edited by TexasAviator; 12-04-2018 at 09:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post

    I am running my second oil change right now with break in. The engine only has about 50 miles on it at the moment but will have a few hundred before I change it again. With this cold winter will it be conducive to running a 5w20 during colder months? I will drive all year round with the mild Texas winters.

    One more vote for 10-30 / 10-40 in old school engines.

    My 393w runs 55psi cold to 180F water temp.

    Reviewed your build thread and it doesn't look like you have an oil temp gauge - doesn't matter.

    It takes about 15-20 more minutes "cruising interstate" (after reaching 180F water temp) to get the oil temp to ~100F (barely moves needle) - that or several high throttle 1st-2nd-3rd blasts.

    At this point mine will idle ~30psi (~800 rpm) for the duration of run time.

    At an autocross I will get it as warm as possible (before runs), and after 3-4 runs oil temp will be ~180-190F, idle oil pressure will remain ~30psi for the duration.

    Drive away from the autocross calmly + the oil temp will quickly fall back toward 100F, but still idles @ 30psi - no oil cooler, just air blowing across the (9 quart) pan.


    Next cold start (hours or days later) it repeats the process - 55psi idle until thoroughly warm.


    I guess I'm suggesting that with 50 miles on the odometer you probably haven't gotten your oil very warm yet...

  16. #11
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Yes the build thread doesn't show my gauges in depth but I have an oil pressure gauge not a temp gauge. You are right that the few times I have had the car out has been less than 15 miles each way to the inspection. So 10w30 would seem to be the general consensus. Thanks.
    Last edited by TexasAviator; 12-04-2018 at 02:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post

    It takes about 15-20 more minutes "cruising interstate" (after reaching 180F water temp) to get the oil temp to ~100F (barely moves needle) - that or several high throttle 1st-2nd-3rd blasts.

    Correction:

    My Speedhut oil temp gauge starts just under 140F.

    So anywhere I said ~100F regarding oil temp - I meant ~140F.


    I was thinking 100F sounded too low so I double checked...

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  19. #13
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post
    Correction:

    My Speedhut oil temp gauge starts just under 140F.

    So anywhere I said ~100F regarding oil temp - I meant ~140F.


    I was thinking 100F sounded too low so I double checked...
    What pistons are you running? Did you source them for a specific head design or the stroke that you are running?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post

    What pistons are you running? Did you source them for a specific head design or the stroke that you are running?
    Funny you should ask that because I read this comment with interest:


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post

    The common misconception has been that 347 use oil. This is false when using a piston that brings the pin below the oil control ring. This engine uses a 5.4" rod but is designed with tighter ring packs.

    Far as I knew at the time I built my engine, all 347 pistons had the pin going through the oil ring land...

    So in the search for which crank / rods / pistons to put in a 351w - at the time - it looked like most of the 408 pistons had the same issue - whereas 393w pistons with 351w rod length essentially use a relatively OEM 302 piston...

    That's exactly how I ended up at 393 - didn't want the piston pin running through the oil ring land.


    I'm running 351w h-beam rods (Eagle), forged TFS pistons (Mahle?) for ~10.5:1 under TFS heads (with the short head gaskets ~.025???).

    If I take it back apart I'm liable to go with a thicker (~.040) head gasket, just to give me some breathing room on random pump gas (what difference does it make when you can already spin the tires at will???).

  21. #15
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post
    Funny you should ask that because I read this comment with interest:





    Far as I knew at the time I built my engine, all 347 pistons had the pin going through the oil ring land...

    So in the search for which crank / rods / pistons to put in a 351w - at the time - it looked like most of the 408 pistons had the same issue - whereas 393w pistons with 351w rod length essentially use a relatively OEM 302 piston...

    That's exactly how I ended up at 393 - didn't want the piston pin running through the oil ring land.


    I'm running 351w h-beam rods (Eagle), forged TFS pistons (Mahle?) for ~10.5:1 under TFS heads (with the short head gaskets ~.025???).

    If I take it back apart I'm liable to go with a thicker (~.040) head gasket, just to give me some breathing room on random pump gas (what difference does it make when you can already spin the tires at will???).
    Now you have my attention. Dont make the gasket too thick, if you mess with quench over .040 you will create hot areas and be more prone to detonation. Your compression is only part of the equation. Your cam has more to play with DCR. I have 11.5 to 1 but my DCR is like 9:1. I get 180 psi cranking pressure.

    Glad you did your homework. It looks like the 393 has the best oil control on the piston skirt. I chose Racetec Autotec forged pistons for their design. They were custom for the TFS 11R head design but I feel they are still on the edge of oil control issues. Only time will tell i Racetec got these right.

    So now the trick is to have the right weight oil for the bearing clearances but controls oil along the walls of the cylinder with the unique piston design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post

    Your compression is only part of the equation. Your cam has more to play with DCR. I have 11.5 to 1 but my DCR is like 9:1. I get 180 psi cranking pressure.

    Cam is Comp Cams 35-770-8 solid roller.

    I was worried it might be a bit too much but in 393 it works really well (for me).


    I would probably try a 35-771-8 next time... Or a hydraulic roller...

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    Honestly for .0020” bearing clearance on rods and mains run 5w-30 weight oil and the best you can get is a high zddp oil like Joe Gibbs or Brad penn especially if you run a more aggressive cam. These older motors love this type of oil. Also if you do this again open the clearances up to .0025” for better flow and longevity especially if you might ever add a power adder or a hotter cam etc. .0018-.0020” is leaning more towards a stock build and .003” is full race. For your piston rings to achieve best wear and safety run the top ring at .018” or .020” if you might want to add some mild spray later. Second ring set them to .020 or 022” just as above. You must run the rings a bit loser for engines that might be upgraded or use a power adder later and you usually run them tighter for engines that are more stock although looser never hurts. General rule of thumb that works is bore x .004 for the top ring and the same to .0055 x bore for the second ring. Then it’s a bit of a judgement call with some gut feel mixed in for adjustment. High power engines add a few thou. Looser ringers are better then to tight of a ring that will kill a engine. Also make sure you trim and measure each ring correctly and twice as this is critical to success. This v8 engine is going to completely different then a cobalt motor as you probably already know.
    Mk4, Moser M88 rear end, Eaton truetrak, Craft Racing 461 Windsor, MMR pro trans, Glenn’s 1,000 hp cobra fuel system and lots of other parts.

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    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post
    Cam is Comp Cams 35-770-8 solid roller.

    I was worried it might be a bit too much but in 393 it works really well (for me).


    I would probably try a 35-771-8 next time... Or a hydraulic roller...
    That cam looks like a great fit for your 393 engine. I bet its a beast. Nice aggressive profile and valve lift. I think if you go bigger than that you are going to start seeing more drivability problems due to lower vacuum.

    Here is my cam card. Mind you this mild cam makes 13 in hg vacuum (very street happy) and made 475 horsepower. I thought about going with more cam but after finding this gem I couldnt be more happier. Its hard to shoot in the dark with off the shelf cams but to have the excellent vacuum... that is the balance you have to find in a cam.

    20181203_214546 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

  25. #19
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFX2043mtu View Post
    Honestly for .0020” bearing clearance on rods and mains run 5w-30 weight oil and the best you can get is a high zddp oil like Joe Gibbs or Brad penn especially if you run a more aggressive cam. These older motors love this type of oil. Also if you do this again open the clearances up to .0025” for better flow and longevity especially if you might ever add a power adder or a hotter cam etc. .0018-.0020” is leaning more towards a stock build and .003” is full race. For your piston rings to achieve best wear and safety run the top ring at .018” or .020” if you might want to add some mild spray later. Second ring set them to .020 or 022” just as above. You must run the rings a bit loser for engines that might be upgraded or use a power adder later and you usually run them tighter for engines that are more stock although looser never hurts. General rule of thumb that works is bore x .004 for the top ring and the same to .0055 x bore for the second ring. Then it’s a bit of a judgement call with some gut feel mixed in for adjustment. High power engines add a few thou. Looser ringers are better then to tight of a ring that will kill a engine. Also make sure you trim and measure each ring correctly and twice as this is critical to success. This v8 engine is going to completely different then a cobalt motor as you probably already know.
    Thanks. I have the rings set to .018 This engine is all motor and built tight. It's a great combo with nothing fancy needed to make power. As you can see my engine build with boost grew boring for street use. From that experience, I set out for great NA power. If I put more cam in this engine I could hit 500hp quickly but at the cost of vacuum and part throttle fun. The 11r 190cc 56cc trickflow heads and victor jr intake manifold are very capable of more rpm. But something I learned from the boosted 2.0L, numbers are useless on the street.
    Last edited by TexasAviator; 12-04-2018 at 10:57 PM.

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    High power small displacement engines with boost defiantly have lag. I completely get it as I built a Subaru running 437 AWHP for my daily. No one is home till 4K then the boost comes on. My point is just be careful comparing these as by nature it’s apples and oranges if built correctly as you have 2.5x the displacementto start with. A decent cr with a proper head, cam and intake set up will make in the 450 hp range and guys will be guys and usually will look for more hp later so I usually recommend to set up a motor accordingly even if they don’t know when or if it will be upgraded. Also you usually run the second ring a bit looser to prevent ring lift but for a mild power motor you should be fine. Have fun ��
    Mk4, Moser M88 rear end, Eaton truetrak, Craft Racing 461 Windsor, MMR pro trans, Glenn’s 1,000 hp cobra fuel system and lots of other parts.

  27. #21
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFX2043mtu View Post
    High power small displacement engines with boost defiantly have lag. I completely get it as I built a Subaru running 437 AWHP for my daily. No one is home till 4K then the boost comes on. My point is just be careful comparing these as by nature it’s apples and oranges if built correctly as you have 2.5x the displacementto start with. A decent cr with a proper head, cam and intake set up will make in the 450 hp range and guys will be guys and usually will look for more hp later so I usually recommend to set up a motor accordingly even if they don’t know when or if it will be upgraded. Also you usually run the second ring a bit looser to prevent ring lift but for a mild power motor you should be fine. Have fun ��
    The second ring is .023 and oil is .035. Its funny you mention your Subaru with boost lag. Mine was a 4k wait all day snail as well. I dont agree; however, that guys want more. In my mind I have already had more and for me this is the number that fills the need. If I did decide down the road to do a heavier car for more prostreet type stuff I would start over with a 460 and build for boost. This car is more for a proof of concept, a young builder, and the dream I had as a teenager watching Home Improvement and Tim Allen. I just wanted to be the dad that could build stuff and play in the garage with my kids. Our motivations are all different and come with a different story when talking to any car guy. This community is why I built my car and engine. The stories and the family is exceptional. You dont get that in younger crowds and new cars. It seems to be less focused on individuals and the story and more on pride and pinks.

    Anyway that got way off topic. My motivations are more mature than my age (38). I tend to hang out with people who are senior to me. They have more to offer and are a lot more level headed than the compact car clubs were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    Here is my cam card. Mind you this mild cam makes 13 in hg vacuum (very street happy) and made 475 horsepower. I thought about going with more cam but after finding this gem I couldnt be more happier. Its hard to shoot in the dark with off the shelf cams but to have the excellent vacuum... that is the balance you have to find in a cam.
    Great to finally hear your impressions of your cam choice!

  29. #23

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Comp Cam Xtreme Energy™, XR288RF-HR

    http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=898&sb=2

    This is basically the same grind that I've got in my 383 Dart-SBC and I'm very happy with it once I got the carb & timing right.
    Once at operating temperature it will clean up around 1,500 RPM & becomes pretty darn happy at 1,700 RPM.
    I'm running a single plane intake, tall port 215 CC head & am still pulling around 12" of vacuum.
    It might be a nice option for the 351-W for 351-Stroker set up.
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 12-05-2018 at 05:06 PM.

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    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF33rod View Post
    Great to finally hear your impressions of your cam choice!
    Thanks for checking out the thread. I know that BOBL has a very similar setup; that is as far as heads and cubes go. However, with stacks and a XE282HR Comp Cam he is making well over 500 and his car feels great on the road. So there is absolutely more room in these 347's but I aimed a bit lower with a 224/232 cam compared to the 282HR which is a 232/240 duration. There are ways they measure them at varying timing locations but all said I wanted to be a bit more conservative and made the power at a lower rpm (5900). The thinking here is that the ford blocks are known for cracking at high rpm over 500hp. I felt with a 3.73 rear gear, a light car, and a midrange street cam I didnt need to rev it out to make power. I also added a girdle to stabilize the mains with the longer stroke of the stroker crankshaft.

    I am going to keep an eye on things and change bearings in a few years just to see how they are holding up. Its not necessary; however, I cant leave anything alone.

  31. #25
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    Comp Cam Xtreme Energy™, XR288RF-HR

    http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=898&sb=2

    This is basically the same grind that I've got in my 383 Dart-SBC and I'm very happy with it once I got the carb & timing right.
    Once at operating temperature it will clean up around 1,500 RPM & becomes pretty darn happy at 1,700 RPM.
    I'm running a single plane intake, tall port 215 CC head & am still pulling around 12" of vacuum.
    It might be a nice option for the 351-W for 351-Stroker set up.
    That is a fine cam. I like the duration at .050 and the valve lift isn't ridiculous. Its very similar to mine in the valve lift area. For a 351-393 that would be a great street cam with big heads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    Comp Cam Xtreme Energy™, XR288RF-HR

    http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=898&sb=2

    This is basically the same grind that I've got in my 383 Dart-SBC and I'm very happy with it once I got the carb & timing right.
    Once at operating temperature it will clean up around 1,500 RPM & becomes pretty darn happy at 1,700 RPM.
    I'm running a single plane intake, tall port 215 CC head & am still pulling around 12" of vacuum.
    It might be a nice option for the 351-W for 351-Stroker set up.
    lol, looks like a near perfect match - 393 vs 383 - solid roller vs. hydraulic.

    Rpm range 2200-6200.

    I got lucky and didn't have to fool with the carb or timing much (strictly mechanical advance - no vacuum advance for me, too many variables to be "fun").

    750 Holley double pumper / Weiand stealth intake / base TFS 170cc heads.

    Big torque / great drivability.


    I will repeat that everything I've experienced tells me that anything beyond 400hp / 400'lbs tq is academic below 100mph in these cars.

    They are just as fast to 100mph, and easier to drive "well".


    I aimed for 500/500 and ended up ~460/550 - now further convinced that 400/400 is the "sweet spot" in these cars (to 100mph).

    Also relative to your tire budget (how soft you wanna go?)...
    Last edited by mike223; 12-05-2018 at 09:30 PM.

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  34. #27
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Agreed, its wheel spin city over 400 with a 3.73 rear gear.

  35. #28
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    I started with a 3.55 gear + rev limiter set for 6500.

    Currently at 3.15 gear + 6000.


    It was literally prone to spinning tires at half throttle in third with the 3.55 gear - scaring hell out of me.

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  37. #29

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    Agreed, its wheel spin city over 400 with a 3.73 rear gear.
    Big, Big, Big Yepppppp On Spin City & Double Ditto On The 3.73's!

    https://youtu.be/PCngiKoopkA .... (Old Camshaft & Old Block Before It Started Leaking!)

    I actually took a little duration out. (Camshaft Change To H.R.) .when I replaced the block.
    Thank God For 6 Forward Spinning Gears & 3.73's Out Back In That TSD Dana 44!
    1,700 RPM = ..71.67 MPH In 6th... (Interstate Cruising Capable!)
    6,000 RPM = 123.94 MPH In 4th .. (Quarter Mile Quick!)
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 12-06-2018 at 09:22 AM.

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  39. #30
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    I dropped the first gear in my t5z to 2.95 to help but as stated the power is ridiculous for 3.73 gears. The mustang that was running this set was making 300hp to the wheels. It was nice for that fox mustang but way too much for our light cars and high hp engines.

  40. #31
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    I have a 347 and get some vibes around 750 rpm. If I drop it to 600 it seems to smooth out, and if I go 850 she purrs like a kitten. I am fuel injected and running a FiTech unit running my ignition timing. What I have found over time is my FiTech is getting better at adding fuel at the right time. Its smoothed out more than it used to be. The best I can figure is that its a vibration caused by timing or misfire. V8's of the 60's are the smoothest engines because you always have the stroke making power to negate the vibrations. This was also the case in older engines when early car makers were building v10s and v12s to have the smoothest engine of any American made car. Anyway, I have my plugs pulled and they look great but I may need to bring them back to .045 gap. I have 11.5 to 1 compression and I feel that I am getting to know my engine and fitech combo better every day. What would you all recommend in these two areas for base timing, plug gap, and mitigating the vibes a bit. It may just be the resonant frequency at 700-750 rpms knocking the panels on the car making it feel funny at the engine. I have read our mounts are stiff and will be that way in these cars.

    Thoughts?

  41. #32
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Are the vibes in the steering wheel or the seat?
    MKIV Roadster - #9380 - Complete Kit - Delivered 7/17/18
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  42. #33
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    No they are kind of in the engine bay. They smooth out at higher and lower rpms. I was told to add fuel to richen the stoich at idle. It definately a weird sonic cell phone style vibe off and on in cycles.

  43. #34

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Texas,

    Most of your lower RPM vibrations are cause by that Big Ole Cam that you are running.
    The valve overlap & is giving you the rough idle that the F/I system will calm down, but won't eliminate it.
    It likely is Hap-Hap-Happy & Totally Smooth once you get to 1,500-1,700 RPM's.

    Steve

    Note: You can hear how choppy my idle was in this old ride along video.

    https://youtu.be/yL4UmpII9ek
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 12-24-2018 at 11:50 AM.

  44. #35
    BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    I have a 347 and get some vibes around 750 rpm. If I drop it to 600 it seems to smooth out, and if I go 850 she purrs like a kitten. I am fuel injected and running a FiTech unit running my ignition timing. What I have found over time is my FiTech is getting better at adding fuel at the right time. Its smoothed out more than it used to be. The best I can figure is that its a vibration caused by timing or misfire. V8's of the 60's are the smoothest engines because you always have the stroke making power to negate the vibrations. This was also the case in older engines when early car makers were building v10s and v12s to have the smoothest engine of any American made car. Anyway, I have my plugs pulled and they look great but I may need to bring them back to .045 gap. I have 11.5 to 1 compression and I feel that I am getting to know my engine and fitech combo better every day. What would you all recommend in these two areas for base timing, plug gap, and mitigating the vibes a bit. It may just be the resonant frequency at 700-750 rpms knocking the panels on the car making it feel funny at the engine. I have read our mounts are stiff and will be that way in these cars.

    Thoughts?
    Could your vibs be from the stroker 347? I've been told that there is a good chance of some piston slap at low RPM is common and perhaps you are able to feel it... Just a thought!

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  45. #36

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAsp427 View Post
    Could your vibs be from the stroker 347? I've been told that there is a good chance of some piston slap at low RPM is common and perhaps you are able to feel it... Just a thought!

    Naz,

    Never thought of that!
    How short are the connecting rods in a 347 Ford?
    Sorry, but the Lord knows that I'm not familiar with Fords at all, much less a stroker version.

    Steve

  46. #37
    Senior Member SSNK4US's Avatar
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    Note: You can hear how choppy my idle was in this old ride along video.

    https://youtu.be/yL4UmpII9ek[/QUOTE]

    A tad off topic... I’m building a “Ford” powered by a ford.... but there’s NOTHING like the sound of a SBC lopey idle!
    Not sure if it’s the firing order or what but there’s nothing like it. Cept maybe it’s big brother lol
    Seriously....

    Thanks for the dark side Steve!

    Kurt
    If everything seems under control, you’re just not going fast enough....

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  47. #38

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSNK4US View Post
    A tad off topic... I’m building a “Ford” powered by a ford.... but there’s NOTHING like the sound of a SBC lopey idle!
    Not sure if it’s the firing order or what but there’s nothing like it.

    Kurt,

    You may be on to something regarding the sound.

    Hummmm


    SBC

    https://youtu.be/NBxgDbvoeqE

    SBF
    https://youtu.be/3T_OKcAxp-I
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 12-24-2018 at 09:35 PM.

  48. #39
    Senior Member SSNK4US's Avatar
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    LOL!!!!!

    My mustang just never sounded as bad at idle as my friends novas, camaros etc.
    But it sure did when I shifted at 8,900

    Kurt
    If everything seems under control, you’re just not going fast enough....

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  49. #40
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replay all. I am not sure if it's a misfire, piston slap or some other anomaly. I am going to drive it some more and the car seems to like a lopey idle but I am going to go see my chassis dyno guy and have him look at it. It's in a narrow part of the band. The engine seems to be happy as can be 800 through 6000... any other ideas?

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