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Thread: Trans and rear end

  1. #1
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    Trans and rear end

    A couple of questions for the group. Does anyone know if a 5 speed manual transmission out of a 2004 3.8l will work in the roadster. Also I bought what I thought was a rear from a 1987 Mustang but it turned out to be from an 86 T bird with 373 and discs. Has anyone used this and what can they share. The width over the rotors is 59 3/4 so that doesn't seem to be an issue any advice?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Be careful moving forward on buying parts because it may end up costing you more in the long run. If you have the t bird axle with 4 link it will work. Also a 3.73 gear is very fun and will make a smaller engine feel more powerful. With the trans you may be ok if it's a t5. You can use Google images to compare styles. I am not at my laptop but there are great resources available online. The t5 was a widely used trans but its weak in stock form if going over 300hp. What are your engine plans?

  3. #3
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    You have determined it is in fact the 8.8, an not a 7.5"?

    The 8.8 rear out of the Turbo Coupe bird is actually a pretty good choice. As mentioned you get the disc brakes, and the lower gears, many which were the 3.55's They work fine with the 3-link suspension, with no modifications needed. The only down side was they are the 4 lug set up, which limits your choice of wheels. The rotors can be modified, to a 5 stud, if you desire.

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    The rear from a t bird was not my idea it was pulled from a mustang only found out later looking at older posts it seems as if others had used these in mkll. Agree about letting the buyer beware i also looked at what was supposed to be an 8cly t5 that was in a 5.0 but it was a 2.3

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    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    You can get a 4 lug, 15" Halibrand style, from here.
    http://psvintagewheels.com/products.html

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    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
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    If in fact you have a T bird reared, be aware that the axles are not the same length as a Mustang axle. It's been a long time ago, so I don't recall the exact difference, but I think the T birds where 3/8" longer? I had a reared from a Turbo Coupe and tried to swap a Mustang axle for one that was damaged, wouldn't work as you couldn't get the brake calipers to center over the rotors.

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    Thanks for the heads up I be careful

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    I was able to confirm it was an 8.8 by the shape the plan was to swap for a 5 lug setup but Rich grsc below maes me a little nervous

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    Member cwrandolph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ponymedic View Post
    I was able to confirm it was an 8.8 by the shape the plan was to swap for a 5 lug setup but Rich grsc below maes me a little nervous
    Contact Richard Oben at North Racecars. He can fix you up with a bracket and the axles to give you the 5 lug setup with Fox Mustang width. Give him a call - he’ll be happy to answer all of your questions.

  10. #10
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    The Turbo Coupe axles are 3/4" longer then the stock Fox Mustang axles. As cw mentions, North Racecar's has the items if you want to switch to the Fox width. Rich needed the new caliper brackets, that move the calipers inboard the 3/4" needed with the shorter axles.

    All the 95 up Mustang donors also had the longer axles, and many completed their builds using them. From what I understood, FFR anticipated builders using later model donor Mustangs, and enlarged the rear wheel openings beginning with the MK3.1 models, to avoid potential tire rub. Now keep in mind that is using wheels and tires, that would also have fitted the Mustang. I know the 15" FFR wheels did work with this rear end width, as would any stock Mustang ones from that era. You would want to check further if your thinking of using some wide *** 17" wheels and tires. Backspace and offsets, could play a roll in gaining proper clearance with calipers, and suspension, if wide-tracking.

    From what I have gathered the 3.73 rear was used in the Turbo-Coupes with automatics, the 3.55's in the manual tranny cars.

    Here's some good info on the differences of the T5's used in Mustangs over the years.
    http://www.moderndriveline.com/Techn...t5_history.htm
    FFR6803RD, MK 3.1, 302 EFI, fr/rr disc brakes, WC-T5, c/w Hurst Competition Plus shifter, 3 link rear, Koni adjustable coil over shocks, dual roll bars, BBK 4-4 headers, 3.55 rear gears, BBK rear lower control arms c/w poly bushings. Ivy Green Metallic Arrived-02/08, On road 09/2010

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    Thanks all for the advice I reached out for disc brakes r us before i saw the replies. They suggested I get 28 spline axels and rotors from an 2005 svo so I ordeeed them from summitt let you know how I make out one other question for the group I am doing the three link and from what I can tell I only need the two square brackets that face down . Im in the process of cleaning up the rear to prepare for paint . Can anyone confirm that I only need the center brackets shown in the pics20181206_193245.jpg
    Last edited by Ponymedic; 12-06-2018 at 08:27 PM.

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    I would strongly suggest canceling that order and getting fox width axles from north race cars or someone else as others have suggested.
    Unless they know something no one else does, never heard of 2005 axles in an older 8.8.
    If you end up wider than fox width you will have wheel tire fitment problems if you try to run proper deep dish wheels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murd View Post
    I would strongly suggest canceling that order and getting fox width axles from north race cars or someone else as others have suggested.
    Unless they know something no one else does, never heard of 2005 axles in an older 8.8.
    If you end up wider than fox width you will have wheel tire fitment problems if you try to run proper deep dish wheels.
    Cant cancell but can return.since ita already on the way.uggh when it gets here im going to slide them in and see what the number is and will post what i get. what number am i looking for i read 59 1/4 i assume that is over the rotors at the rim mating surface? Again thanks for the advice

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    Thanks Ac

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    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ponymedic View Post
    Im in the process of cleaning up the rear to prepare for paint . Can anyone confirm that I only need the center brackets shown in the pics20181206_193245.jpg
    Yours is a little different then mine, in that that mine didn't have that lower bracket on the left. So that one is not needed and could be cut off. The one with the bolt in it on the far right, sticking up, is not needed either, I trimmed mine off at the top of the axle housing and used the lower section of it for the limiting cable to attach to. (Some builders choose not to use limiting straps at all) Also some builders cut the ears off the pumpkin, but I used the one on the passenger side to attach an additional 3 link brace, similar to the one VPM sells. This reinforces the banana bracket.

    Keep the larger bracket that hangs down, intact. That is the one that is used for attaching the panhard bar bracket, the lower control arm,and the coil over shock.
    IMG_2864.JPG

    IMG_2866.JPG

  16. #16
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    Thanks Bill. Feel like an expectant father trying to get everything ready. Was hoping to take a roadtrip and pick up on my birthday in February but they can only accomidate a couple days after (oh well) im sure I will be relying and you and the others in the future

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    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC Bill View Post
    Yours is a little different then mine, in that that mine didn't have that lower bracket on the left. So that one is not needed and could be cut off. The one with the bolt in it on the far right, sticking up, is not needed either, I trimmed mine off at the top of the axle housing and used the lower section of it for the limiting cable to attach to. (Some builders choose not to use limiting straps at all) Also some builders cut the ears off the pumpkin, but I used the one on the passenger side to attach an additional 3 link brace, similar to the one VPM sells. This reinforces the banana bracket.

    Keep the larger bracket that hangs down, intact. That is the one that is used for attaching the panhard bar bracket, the lower control arm,and the coil over shock.
    IMG_2864.JPG

    IMG_2866.JPG
    Bill ~

    Iíve contemplated limiting straps and have mine up in the air winterizing and cleaning. I remember a previous discussion on the topic, but could not locate it. What was the length of the straps you fabed up? And your thoughts/experiences on their value besides the obvious...

    Chris
    MK4 Basic Kit #7404, 347 EFI - Pro M Racing ECM, 30# injectors, 70 mm throttle body, 80 mm MAF, Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads & RPM II intake, all new G-Force T5, 3:55 gears, Pro 5.0 shifter, 3-link, carbon fiber dash/custom Speedhut gauges and paint by Da Bat.

  18. #18
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgundermann View Post
    Bill ~I’ve contemplated limiting straps and have mine up in the air winterizing and cleaning. I remember a previous discussion on the topic, but could not locate it. What was the length of the straps you fabed up? And your thoughts/experiences on their value besides the obvious...Chris
    There have been discussions on the advantages/disadvantages of using them, on the FFCars forum for over 15+ years.

    The straps used are the ones FFR supplied, and were included in the parts that came with the roadster back in 2009. I am not sure of their length, offhand.

    At the time I was building the roadster, the use of limiting straps was included in the build manual, and they certainly seemed sensible. When the rear of the car was jacked up, they prevent the entire weight of the rear end, having to be supported by the shocks, and in the case of the 3-link, resting on the 3-link framing on the left side. They also prevent any stress on the flexible brake lines. It also made sense, in that the driveshaft, pinion, yoke, and u-joints weren't over-stressed in any way, by the extreme angle.

    As you may recall from those earlier discussions, the argument against using them was, that during hard cornering, and the car had extreme body roll, the limiting straps could limit the rear suspension travel, and cause the inside rear tire to lose traction.

    Personally, I have not found this to be the case, and I have done some fairly "spirited" driving... I believe that to reach the point where the body roll is that extreme, chances are good your tires would lose traction first. ....Additionally, at that point, the rebound on the coil-over spring has fully extended, the spring is loose, and no longer pushing the axle on the inside wheel down any further anyway. I believe the rebound is only around 2" with the 250# springs, less with heavier ones.
    One just has to jack the car up by the rear frame to measure this rebound distance, (as with different spring rates it will vary). You probably could use this in helping determine the strap length required. Truck tailgate straps are available in varying lengths, and would work. I have read of some using chain, run through a bicycle inner tube, for straps.

    Some builders decided to mount one limiting strap off the center (pumpkin) of the rear end, up to the 2x3 frame under the trunk floor. This would still prevent the entire weight of rear end hanging from the shocks, or driveshaft angle concerns, and not limit suspension travel at all. I really like that solution as a compromise.
    FFR6803RD, MK 3.1, 302 EFI, fr/rr disc brakes, WC-T5, c/w Hurst Competition Plus shifter, 3 link rear, Koni adjustable coil over shocks, dual roll bars, BBK 4-4 headers, 3.55 rear gears, BBK rear lower control arms c/w poly bushings. Ivy Green Metallic Arrived-02/08, On road 09/2010

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    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Thanks Bill, now I do remember the handling debate. Interesting that I got mine in January of 2011, and FFR no longer included or mentioned them in the MK4 manual. I’ve currently got all four wheels dangling, and my rearend is just a bit above the third link brace. I do like the idea of the single strap attached to the pumpkin and anchored above the the trunk brace to limit it.

    Appreciate the detailed response/information.

    Chris
    MK4 Basic Kit #7404, 347 EFI - Pro M Racing ECM, 30# injectors, 70 mm throttle body, 80 mm MAF, Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads & RPM II intake, all new G-Force T5, 3:55 gears, Pro 5.0 shifter, 3-link, carbon fiber dash/custom Speedhut gauges and paint by Da Bat.

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    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
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    The limiting straps where a holdover from the use of donor springs on the rear suspension. The have nothing to do with preventing the rear axle from hanging on the shocks. The coil over shock are not effected by the axe weight. With coil overs they serve no purpose, the shock limit travel enough to not worry about brake lines as well.

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