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Thread: 40 Watt Garage - Coyote Install Tips Needed

  1. #1
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    40 Watt Garage - Coyote Install Tips Needed

    According to the manual and my own assessment of things to do, it's time to get that 600lb. lump of expensive aluminum parts in the corner into their proper location.

    I'll be getting the car down off the dolly soon, and hitting a minor milestone - ROLLER! - That said, I've got a few questions.
    (This is about my 27th rodeo installing an engine/trans assembly, but it's the 1st time in one of these cars. I have the engine lift brackets, crane & leveler)

    The oil pan, clutch/bellhousing, and transmission are all mated up.

    Engine Accessories:
    - Power Steering... Install brackets & pump before or after?
    - Sending units... Install before or after?
    - Starter... Install before or after?
    - Alternator... On or off the engine?

    Engine Mounts:
    - Recommended shims/spacers?

    Exhaust:
    - Remove or Install certain/particular header flange studs now?

    Things in the way:
    - Steering Shaft?
    - Brake/Clutch reservoirs?

    Physical:
    - Raise front or rear of the car? How much?

    More than likely I'll be working solo, so I want to be as proactive as possible to make this a smooth procedure!
    John D. - Minneapolis 'Burbs

    1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
    2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5
    2018 Mk4 Roadster w/ Coyote - #9365 - Build Thread Delivery 7/3/18, 1st Start 1/4/19, 1st Road Mile 5/5/19, Legal 6/18/19, In Paint 2/25/21, Done (?) 4/2021

  2. #2
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixit View Post
    According to the manual and my own assessment of things to do, it's time to get that 600lb. lump of expensive aluminum parts in the corner into their proper location.

    I'll be getting the car down off the dolly soon, and hitting a minor milestone - ROLLER! - That said, I've got a few questions.
    (This is about my 27th rodeo installing an engine/trans assembly, but it's the 1st time in one of these cars. I have the engine lift brackets, crane & leveler)

    The oil pan, clutch/bellhousing, and transmission are all mated up.

    Engine Accessories:
    - Power Steering... Install brackets & pump before or after?
    - Sending units... Install before or after?
    - Starter... Install before or after?
    - Alternator... On or off the engine?

    Engine Mounts:
    - Recommended shims/spacers?

    Exhaust:
    - Remove or Install certain/particular header flange studs now?

    Things in the way:
    - Steering Shaft?
    - Brake/Clutch reservoirs?

    Physical:
    - Raise front or rear of the car? How much?

    More than likely I'll be working solo, so I want to be as proactive as possible to make this a smooth procedure!

    I’m sure that others will chime in shortly, but here it goes.

    I installed all of the engine accessories ( power steering pump, alternator, sending units, starter) before dropping the motor in.

    I installed the ffv motor mount spacers only on the drivers side as recommended by ffv. I originally put them on both sides but the motor didn’t seem to be centered as well that way.

    Exhaust. I removed all of the studs. I believe it would be just about impossible to instal the headers with them on. I used locking bolts on the headers. I believe they were stage 8.

    The steering shaft must be disconnected from the front and just hang out of the way.

    I did not install reservoirs until after the engine install. Not to say that it can’t be done.

    I raised both the front and rear of the car. Depending on your engine hoist you will have to play with where you put the stands to be able to get the hoist far enough in.

    Last but not least.
    It is a 2 person job. At least as an amateur.

    Jim
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  3. #3
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Added points after Jim's response. Agree with most.

    I'd recommend leaving the starter off until the engine is in. It will go in with it installed, but does have to clear the chassis engine mount before dropping down. So easier IMO just to leave it off and one less thing you have to watch for during the engine install. It's an easy add once the engine is in.

    Motor mount spacers have been a saga since the Coyote was first introduced. Initially, Factory Five did say only one on the driver's side. Never any real explanation that I know of other than it tipped the engine slightly away from the already very tight footbox aluminum. With the current sheet metal, which does provide more room, they now show using one on each side. Also a couple years ago they introduced the spacers that go inside the Energy motor mounts. I used those on #8674 and also on the Gen 3 Coupe build. I'd recommend starting with those in both sides and see where you're at. Once the engine is in, you'll need to check footbox clearance and also header/side pipe alignment. Both are heavily influenced by the engine position.

    Agree on the steering shaft. Can be attached at the footbox. But needs to be disconnected at the rack and swung over out of the way. Also agree on the reservoirs. If you have large reservoirs in front of the footbox (e.g. CNC) they need to be moved out of the way to drop the engine down.

    I removed the exhaust header studs for all but the back couple locations on the driver's side. Those are the worst to reach, and it's easier IMO to get a nut over an existing stud than to start a bolt. But be warned, you need to cut the studs off so they're long enough to hold the header flange and nut and no more. Left at the stock length, you won't be able to get the header between the stud and the sheet metal when installing. I used regular metric Allen head bolts on #8674 and gave the threads a liberal coating of Permatex Ultra Copper RTV. All good after two seasons of driving. Plan to do the same with the Coupe. I like the Stage 8 and Percy's Vibe-Lock fasteners. I've used both successfully before. But I couldn't find any that engaged enough threads in the Coyote's aluminum heads that I was comfortable with.

    The challenge that I've found after doing two Coyote installs is that the engine lifting points don't make it easy to get the transmission hanging down at a good angle. It has to go down at a sharp angle to get under the firewall and then tip the engine in. This is one of the reasons having help is important. I've been able to pull the tailshaft of the transmission down with a ratchet strap under the chassis and back to the shop crane. Makes it easier, but still a two person job (at least) IMO. Raising the back wheels is one method guys use to help. Don't raise only the front. That would just make it harder. My method is I put the whole chassis on wheel dollies and then move the chassis rather than the shop crane with the hanging engine/trans. I find the chassis easier to position and make small adjustments compared to moving the shop crane. But like everything, it's a matter of personal choice and what works best for you.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by edwardb; 12-08-2018 at 11:23 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  4. #4
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Nose of the car low but high enough and with stands positioned so that you can roll the legs of the hoist in. Make the rear high so that it effectively reduces the angle that the engine/trans hangs in relation to the chassis. No reason not to install the PS pump and senders. I usually wind up doing it alone but it's great to have a helper to watch and guide.

    Good luck!

    Jeff

  5. #5
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    While I have zero expertise to offer here - I am offering my help. Let me know when you're doing this and I'll head over. Would love to see the progress of your build.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips & suggestions, and "Stillwater"... I may take you up on your offer (and the 40 Watt is always open for visitors if you're in the neighborhood!). I'll also see if Mrs. Fixit is available again (but no white shirt so she can get a little dirty!)
    c100_0166b.jpg

    Stuffing 10lbs of sh... in a 5lb basket is nothing new for me. The last engine transplant in Blackie was interesting, as it went in with all pumps/accessories and headers in place, and a 4L60e automatic hanging off the back!
    100_0168b.jpg 100_0177.jpg
    John D. - Minneapolis 'Burbs

    1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
    2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5
    2018 Mk4 Roadster w/ Coyote - #9365 - Build Thread Delivery 7/3/18, 1st Start 1/4/19, 1st Road Mile 5/5/19, Legal 6/18/19, In Paint 2/25/21, Done (?) 4/2021

  7. #7
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    2x on the points above (kept the starter on w/ no issues). Choose to remove all header bolts (although I have not yet installed my headers …)

    I put my wheels/tires on and dropped the chassis on rollers (frm HF) that way I could move the chassis to the engine and not move the engine/lift (not enough clearance for that thing to be swinging)

    IMG_1561.jpg IMG_1563b.jpg

    Just took me guiding and my lovely assistant working the lift (slowing lowering/positioning)

    DSCN6375.JPG

    Also, bought the pre-fab lift tabs from FFR, very helpful.
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, TKO600, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

  8. #8
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    Left the starter on, ps on, alt on. Left all the full length exh studs in on the passenger side. I shortened all but 1 on the drivers side and used the factory nuts on the studs. I used one exh bolt on top of #7 cyl, I think.
    I ran into an issue after the engine was in and fired up. It required removing the trans in the car. My advise would be to check the clutch fork for clearance, when depressed. Mine was hitting the pressure plate. I had to change out the pivot bolt that threads into the bellhousing. I used the Ford/Tremec alum bell housing. The bolt that would not work was 1.5" tall. I replaced it with the 2" tall bolt and all worked fine. it was no fun pulling the trans, even with a lift and trans jack. For what it is worth, the black bolt did not work, the plated one did. Go ahead and put on the short oil filter or leave it off, until you get the engine dropped in. Pull the dipstick. I threw some welding jackets over the footboxes and frame tubing.
    With your experience, the rest should be SOP. I have a set of exh bolts, that I used the one out of, that I can ship you the quantity you need, if you go the stud route. I have forgotten the brand, but they are top of the line.
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    40 Watt Garage - Mk4 Build - Wile E. Coyote is bedded down!

    As usual the advise here is stellar, spot-on, and in less than an hour the Coyote/Tremec combo is in the car and sitting on the mounts.
    I was working solo (Mrs. Fixit was decorating the spare bedroom after a repaint).
    Now that I’ve done this job, I can add my own comments and suggestions to this task.


    Parts/Supplies:
    Engine Lifting Brackets:

    • There are no Ford/Factory provided lifting points on the engine. You’ll have to make something up, or purchase them. The brackets I used were from TDMotion I’ve had them since March (to get the engine out of the crate) and they again worked great.

    Hoist/Crane/Cherry Picker:

    • I’ll assume most of you will be renting a setup from your local outfit. Check it out thoroughly.
      • Inspect the welds
      • Make sure it rolls freely & easily
      • If it looks like it’s beat to hell, it is. Ask for a different unit or go somewhere else

    • Many years ago I bought my own. It's a Northern Tool 6000lb unit, that has served me very well, and has paid for itself due to no rental fees, or renting it out to other car buddies.

    Load Leveler:

    • A must have accessory for any engine crane. Makes the job very easy

    Proper hooks/eyebolts/chains:

    • Stay out of the “hang a bicycle/broom/etc” section at the Home Center for these! This hardware is life & mission critical.
      • Chain must be welded link, and rated at least 4x your anticipated load
      • Eyebolts must be forged and rated at least 4x your anticipated load
      • Hooks must be forged, and rated at least 4x your anticipated load
      • Take into account that anything other than a “dead hang” (any induced angle in the load pull) cuts the load rating of your hardware by a significant amount

    PPE & Practices:

    • Safety Glasses (which you should be wearing EVERY time you’re in the shop)
    • “Mechanics” gloves. Saves on cuts & scrapes.
    • Clean up and make the largest “clear work area” you can.
    • Never EVER get under the car or under the load when it’s suspended! EVER!!
    • Once the engine is in the air and off the stand/dolly, practice working the engine crane… get a “feel” for the pump and pressure relief valve!


    FFR Roadster Specific Tips:
    I have very few things to add to the suggestions listed above. There’s nothing like a giant resource of “been there, done that” such as this forum.

    • Remove the side drain plug from the oil pan. I needed that 3/8” wiggle room to get clear of the motor mount risers on the frame.
    • Remove any adapter pipes from the I/O on the heater box.
    • Have a supply of old bath towels or moving blankets for paint protection
    • Disconnect the battery
      • NOT at the cut-off switch (if you have one), remove the terminals from the posts
      • Remove the battery if it’s front mounted (Breeze setup)

    • Ensure all your wiring harness looms are out of the way


    This operation is a slow-dance between lifting/lowering/tilting/easing it in/repeat. Go slowly, carefully, and make frequent checks all around.

    Install_01.jpgInstall_02.jpgInstall_03.pngInstall_04.jpgInstall_05.pngInstall_06.jpgInstall_07.pngInstall_08.jpgInstall_09.jpgInstall_10.jpg
    Last edited by Fixit; 12-15-2018 at 06:03 PM. Reason: oil pan plug clarification
    John D. - Minneapolis 'Burbs

    1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
    2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5
    2018 Mk4 Roadster w/ Coyote - #9365 - Build Thread Delivery 7/3/18, 1st Start 1/4/19, 1st Road Mile 5/5/19, Legal 6/18/19, In Paint 2/25/21, Done (?) 4/2021

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  11. #10
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    Great job. I agree on lubing the screw on the engine leveling rig. I brushed anti seize on mine.
    I also noticed you left your shifter on the trans. Obviously you had no issues with this, but I removed mine, did not know whether it would be a problem during the install.
    I noticed, no exh manifold studs on the passenger side. I guess you decided to go with bolts?
    Last edited by Railroad; 12-15-2018 at 08:54 AM.
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  12. #11
    Member cwrandolph's Avatar
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    Here's my garage assistant helping with a re-install on a completed car. Front end up a bit on jack stands & rolling the cherry picker in from the front & passenger side.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #12
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    I noticed, no exh manifold studs on the passenger side. I guess you decided to go with bolts?
    Yeah... I pulled them. After doing several big-tube header installs on BB Chevelles w/ A/C, putting pipes on one of these should be duck soup.... (famous last words?)
    John D. - Minneapolis 'Burbs

    1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
    2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5
    2018 Mk4 Roadster w/ Coyote - #9365 - Build Thread Delivery 7/3/18, 1st Start 1/4/19, 1st Road Mile 5/5/19, Legal 6/18/19, In Paint 2/25/21, Done (?) 4/2021

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