Over the last few days, I installed the radiator using Breeze upper and lower mounts. I also have the Breeze lower radiator hose hookup that I managed to get into place. I'm at a place where I'm not certain how to proceed.
I haven't decided on the upper hose yet, was thinking of going with Boig Cool tubes, but looking at how they are shaped, and the shape of my coolant intake, I don't think they would work. Unless I'm not looking at the coolant intake here.
The connection is coming out of the engine at a 45 degree angle, and looks like Boig tubes expect it to be vertical. Even more so, is looks like it's partially obstructed by this rod attached to the alternator, so I'm not sure if a tube with any rigidity in it would fit:
In the photo above there is also an open connection below the coolant intake. I'm not sure where that is supposed to go. I'm waiting for a larger overflow tank from Jegs. Instructions have us connect the filler to the overflow, but maybe this is it for this engine. (which is a BPE 351w based 427 with Sniper EFI).
Other confusing things include the instructions mentioning to install a thermostatic switch. My coolant intake doens't have a hole for it, and I'm not sure if I need to because I think this on the driver side is it already and is connceted to the EFI.
Finally, I have these two valve looking things on the radiator, one on the driver's side at the top pointed to the side, the other on the passenger side, bottom, pointed toward the rear. Not sure what they are for, other than the bottom one being a drain potentially.
Mk4 Complete Kit, Blueprint 427w EFI Stage 1, IRS, 15", Gordon Levi Wilwood brakes, FFR Power steering (Build Thread)
First, you might be able to lower the position of your alternator by flipping that lower bracket upside down. If you can do this, you might be able to use the existing water neck/thermostat housing. Otherwise you could get a 90* one to clear the upper alternator arm. The open nipple on the water pump cover is for your heater hoses if running one. There are usually 2 nipples, top one for the bypass from the water neck and bottom for heater core return.
Oh and the valves or petcocks on the radiator are to drain the fluid. Upper petcock allows you to purge air while filling the system. You can also put a coolant temp sender in there if you’d like
Life will be easier if you swap that 45 degree water neck/thermostat housing for a 90 degree one, either OEM for a Fox body 5.0 Mustang or aftermarket something like this.
At that point you can use the Boig tube or even a cut Fox Mustang hose as I show here and couple it with the kit supplied T filler.
The open port on the water pump below the thermostat housing is for the heater. If you aren't running a heater it can be capped or plugged.
The thermostatic switch can go where that brass plug is on the passenger side of the intake, just rearward of the thermostat housing.
The upper petcock on the radiator is an air bleed; open it when filling the system to allow air to purge then close it when coolant begins to come out.
FYI, search for the other current post about the corrugated hose, for opinions/suggestions/etc.
It can be used, but NEEDS to be "enhanced" to avoid hose-blowoff!
I ran mine for 10 years after I "enhanced" it. Yep, blew-off during initial go-kart, once it got up to temp. You WILL want to avoid this scenario.
Enhancements are screws or something on the end of the corrugate hose to improve hose-clamp bite and replacing the worm-gear hose clamps (BOTH). OR save the hassle and replace with the aftermarket Boig products or OEM rubber radiator hoses.
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FYI, search for the other current post about the corrugated hose, for opinions/suggestions/etc.
It can be used, but NEEDS to be "enhanced" to avoid hose-blowoff!
I ran mine for 10 years after I "enhanced" it. Yep, blew-off during initial go-kart, once it got up to temp. You WILL want to avoid this scenario.
Enhancements are screws or something on the end of the corrugate hose to improve hose-clamp bite and replacing the worm-gear hose clamps (BOTH). OR save the hassle and replace with the aftermarket Boig products or OEM rubber radiator hoses.
Yup, it will definitely be a temporary solution.
Originally Posted by rich grsc
That is the heater return fitting on the pump. All fitting on the pump are inlets, or return coolant flow.
Oh From where then do I grab the line going into the heater? I'm guessing then somewhere around the filler neck on the top hose coming out of the radiator. The heater instructions are quite terse, at least for us newbies.
Mk4 Complete Kit, Blueprint 427w EFI Stage 1, IRS, 15", Gordon Levi Wilwood brakes, FFR Power steering (Build Thread)
The brass plug that I mentioned earlier as a place to install the thermo switch is where the other heater hose goes. You can still put the switch there by using a “T”—OR— you can get a thermostat housing that has a threaded port and place it there —OR—you can remove the upper (air bleed) petcock from the radiator and thread it in there.
If you end up having to go with the 90 degree water neck highly recommend the Ford Motorcraft, anything for $20 is made over seas and not super great quality and more than likely will leak on you. Ask me how I know when I picked up the Ford OEM problem solved. It is pricey but you get what you pay for...Just my .02
Thanks all! I got the part Jeff linked to. Will see how it goes. Advantages over the Ford one are that it's nice and shiny like the rest of the engine and already has a dilled out and tapped bung for a thermostat. If it doesn't end up working will look at the Ford one. I'm still waiting for the larger overflow tank so will move to EFI wiring before returning to cooling setup.
Mk4 Complete Kit, Blueprint 427w EFI Stage 1, IRS, 15", Gordon Levi Wilwood brakes, FFR Power steering (Build Thread)
You said you were running a Sniper EFI. If that is the case then, you do not need the fan temp switch. The Sniper has a connection for this and you set up the on/off temps for the fan on the Sniper handheld display. That's the good news.
The not so good news is, you still need a second temp sensor in the intake manifold for your temp gage on the dash. This can go in the port Jeff mentioned behind the thermostat housing. This is normally a large port intended for the heater hose feed line. If you're not running a heater then all you need is the appropriate reducers to adapt the port to the sensor. If you are running a heater then it becomes a little more complicated. Let us know about the heater.
HTH
Norm
Mk4 base kit 7721, 331 Stroker, Holley Sniper EFI, Wipers, Heater, Whitby Soft Top, Drop trunk mod and more
Ah. That makes sense. Thanks for the details Norm. Looks like I'm in a good spot then. I can use that rear hole for the heater as intended, and the new 90 degree thermostat housing has a bung for a thermostat, I can use that for the dash!
Mk4 Complete Kit, Blueprint 427w EFI Stage 1, IRS, 15", Gordon Levi Wilwood brakes, FFR Power steering (Build Thread)
You can't use the one in the water neck for the gage on the dash! It will not read any temperature increase until the thermostat opens. If you have a thermostat that fails in the closed position your engine will overheat and you will not see it on the gage.
As Jeff mentioned, you will need to T the port in the intake manifold behind the thermostat to allow for heater coolant flow and a sensor. It is also necessary to provide some method of constant coolant flow through this T so the sensor will read correctly. A bypass heater control is one method. I made a bypass block that connects the feed and return lines for the heater with a 1/4 inch port. This allows a small amount of coolant to flow past the sensor at all times and allowed me to use the supplied heater control. The T with the sensor is labelled 1 and the heater control is labelled 2 in the attached picture. Mark at Breeze used to have the T fittings.
HTH
Norm
Last edited by Norm B; 02-02-2023 at 11:57 AM.
Mk4 base kit 7721, 331 Stroker, Holley Sniper EFI, Wipers, Heater, Whitby Soft Top, Drop trunk mod and more
You can't use the one in the water neck for the gage on the dash! It will not read any temperature increase until the thermostat opens. If you have a thermostat that fails in the closed position your engine will overheat and you will not see it on the gage.
As Jeff mentioned, you will need to T the port in the intake manifold behind the thermostat to allow for heater coolant flow and a sensor. It is also necessary to provide some method of constant coolant flow through this T so the sensor will read correctly. A bypass heater control is one method. I made a bypass block that connects the feed and return lines for the heater with a 1/4 inch port. This allows a small amount of coolant to flow past the sensor at all times and allowed me to use the supplied heater control. The T with the sensor is labelled 1 and the heater control is labelled 2 in the attached picture. Mark at Breeze used to have the T fittings.
HTH
Norm
Thanks Norm. That saved me from a potentially very costly mistake. I have one of these bypass valves on order already for the heater/defroster.
I did receive the new thermostat housing this morning and went to see if I can replace it and not sure if it will work.
I was hoping to reuse the thermostat, but the original housing has a round groove in which it sat. The new one doesn't and the thermostat can move around a bit. Not sure if I need a different thermostat but I can't seem to find any that aren't just round.
The other more scary issue is that one of the bolts, when it came out, took a few threads with it. Then when I tried to thread in the new bolt, very gently by hand, it took another. So, not sure if it's already mangled beyond being usable, but I'd hope that I can mount the housing once and be done. I feel that if I have to do this again, I have some work coming my way using helicoils
Please send a picture of the thermostat opening in the intake manifold. Normally it has a recess for the thermostat to fit into. Use anti seize on those bolts. If I remember correctly, one of the bolt holes in the manifold is deep and bottom tapped into a blind hole while the other goes through into the water jacket. Could depend on which hole got mangled to determine the need to helicoil.
Norm
Mk4 base kit 7721, 331 Stroker, Holley Sniper EFI, Wipers, Heater, Whitby Soft Top, Drop trunk mod and more
This is what it looks like. No groove, it's just flat. The dark ring is just from the o-ring on the old housing. Both holes are blind, and it's the top one that got mangled.
Hard to tell for sure from the picture but, I think you need to helicoil that hole. I blew up the picture as much as I could and don't see enough good threads left to be certain that you could torque that bolt tight enough to prevent it leaking. Your new water neck looks like an inexpensive (cheap) after market one. It might rely on the thicker O-ring to centre the thermostat and still seal.
Hopefully the panel of assembled experts can chime in on the requirements for repair.
On a side note, grade 8 bolts and hardened washers are a bit of overkill for intake manifold installation .
Norm
Mk4 base kit 7721, 331 Stroker, Holley Sniper EFI, Wipers, Heater, Whitby Soft Top, Drop trunk mod and more
Ok. I ordered Canton 80-056 and Stant 45358. I think Forte uses these housings as well so must be good. I'm off to try and manually thread that bolt in and see what happens, can't get much worse if I'm helicoiling it. Not excited I have to say, I never installed one. Let's hope I don't get myself into where I need a new intake manifold
Mk4 Complete Kit, Blueprint 427w EFI Stage 1, IRS, 15", Gordon Levi Wilwood brakes, FFR Power steering (Build Thread)
I think you disregarded the advice to get a good Ford thermostat housing? The recess should be in the housing not the intake, and get some regular bolts, not some mismatched pair. Use anti-seize thread protectant on the bolts, and now is the time to repair those threads.
I'm curious, why did you buy another thermostat, when that one hasn't been used?
Last edited by rich grsc; 02-02-2023 at 02:49 PM.
Mrk III, 331 stroker, Borla stack injection, T5, 3:55 IRS, Power steering and brakes. Kleiner body & paint
I bought it because the Canton instructions say it doesn't work with all thermostats so I picked one that they listed (but a 180 degree version). They weren't expensive so not a big deal. The description on their page does say it has a recess for the thermostat. As to why that one, I wanted something that looked nice too and matches the rest of the engine. The Ford one while I don't doubt is good, looks very unfinished and would look out of place.
You're right on the threads. I tried the bolt now with some anti-seize and it took more threads out. Just to make sure I measured the bolts correctly, these are 5/16" with 18 thread pitch, right? Edit: The helicoil kit is on order, as well as a different bottoming tap because the hole is blind. If anyone else is new at this, these aren't standard taps, you need STI taps for the coils.
Edit2: Note on the mismatched bolts. They're not. The black one is from the housing that came with the engine, silver ones came with the new housing (which wont work). The photo just shows that both took threads out of the hole. Canton housing comes with hardware as well so I'll have a third pair
Last edited by mladen; 02-02-2023 at 06:04 PM.
Mk4 Complete Kit, Blueprint 427w EFI Stage 1, IRS, 15", Gordon Levi Wilwood brakes, FFR Power steering (Build Thread)
No. My engine came with a 180 degree thermostat. In the Canton instructions where they list compatible thermostats, all the models listed are 195. So I just picked a 180 degree version of those. So it matches what came with the engine from Blueprint. I'm so new at this that I'm afraid of changing to a different color bolt, let alone changing something like thermostat temperature
Mk4 Complete Kit, Blueprint 427w EFI Stage 1, IRS, 15", Gordon Levi Wilwood brakes, FFR Power steering (Build Thread)
Jeff,
I recently had a very small leak on the underside of my thermostat housing.I also noticed when I removed the small bypass hose, it had developed a weak spot against the housing. I have an OEM style housing with the optional port for the radiator switch.
It was a royal pain to put the little bypass hose in place and was thinking of getting a 90 degree housing w/o the threaded port for the radiator fan switch and finding another area to place the fan switch giving me more room for the small bypass hose. I have a heater so the port directly behind the housing has my heater return hose connected there and the port on the driver side has my dash temp gauge connected there.
You mention a "t" at the heater return port directly behind the housing. Can you elaborate more on that? Is there a "T" you can purchase of do you have to make one?
Jeff,
I recently had a very small leak on the underside of my thermostat housing.I also noticed when I removed the small bypass hose, it had developed a weak spot against the housing. I have an OEM style housing with the optional port for the radiator switch.
It was a royal pain to put the little bypass hose in place and was thinking of getting a 90 degree housing w/o the threaded port for the radiator fan switch and finding another area to place the fan switch giving me more room for the small bypass hose. I have a heater so the port directly behind the housing has my heater return hose connected there and the port on the driver side has my dash temp gauge connected there.
You mention a "t" at the heater return port directly behind the housing. Can you elaborate more on that? Is there a "T" you can purchase of do you have to make one?
Thanks,
Tom
The heater return hose is at the water pump, the hose out of the manifold is the outlet TO the heater.
Mrk III, 331 stroker, Borla stack injection, T5, 3:55 IRS, Power steering and brakes. Kleiner body & paint
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Originally Posted by mladen
From where then do I grab the line going into the heater? I'm guessing then somewhere around the filler neck on the top hose coming out of the radiator. The heater instructions are quite terse, at least for us newbies.
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