Midwest Classic Insurance

Visit our community sponsor

Thanks Thanks:  64
Likes Likes:  79
Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 341

Thread: MB750's MKIV Roadster build thread

  1. #1
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like

    MB750's MKIV Roadster build thread

    It begins!

    Roadster Order Screen.jpg

    It's a complete kit. I recently bought a complete 95 Mustang GT with a lot of neglect so I'm going with the complete kit so I get all new components, but I'll rebuild the engine, trans, and axle.

    I've also been emailing Dan with some topical questions. At this point it looks like sometime in November it'll be done. That gives me plenty of time to get my donor parts torn apart and rebuilt.

    This is gonna be a blast! I've rebuilt TONS of motorcycles from frame-off cleanups to monster motor Harleys so I'm no stranger to spinning wrenches. I'm also going to take this back a few decades with the technology. Carb will replace the FI, but the engine is getting a full cleanup by a local machine shop and I'll do a 347 kit with AFR heads. I'm also planning on putting 3.08 gears in the back because I want this to be a fun road car, not a dragster. I used to have an 88 GT with 3.73's and first was useless.

    I'll definitely keep this thread going as things progress but it's gonna be slow.

  2. Likes Straversi, WIS89, nucjd19 liked this post
  3. #2
    BadAsp427's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Greeneville, TN
    Posts
    1,177
    Post Thanks / Like
    Congratulations and welcome to the craziness. You’ve come to the right place for help and support

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 (#8 of 20) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    Build Thread Click Here / Registry Entry Click Here / BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
    Carb/Heater/Heated Seats/Cruise Control/Drop Trunk & Battery/Custom Cubby

  4. Thanks MB750 thanked for this post
  5. #3
    Senior Member 460.465USMC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Congrats, MB750! I like to see builders with mech. experience join...more opportunities for lesser experienced builders (like me!) to learn from. Let the waiting begin! I thought the 12 or so weeks for my kit to complete and deliver was a long time. That's darn quick nowadays. Let the waiting begin! I'm remember the feeling, and excited for you.
    Chris Build Thread Index
    Complete kit delivered: 10/15/2020. First Start: 6/25/22. First Go-Kart: 8/14/22. Legal: 7/25/23.
    Coyote Gen3. TKO600 (0.64 OD). IRS w/3.55. PS. Wilwoods. Sway bars.
    This build is dedicated to my son, Benjamin.
    Build Thread

  6. Thanks MB750 thanked for this post
    Likes speedfreak1211 liked this post
  7. #4
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks fellas. Even though I have built quite a bit of mechanical stuff in my life this is a completely new endeavor where I also stand to learn a lot of new things as well. I've already watched many build videos and vlogs which I'm sure will help.

    I'll post up some pics later today of my current teardown of the donor, and over the next few months pics and reports of the drivetrain rebuilding.

  8. #5
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Posts
    8,000
    Post Thanks / Like
    Welcome! We'll enjoy following along

    Jeff

  9. Thanks MB750 thanked for this post
  10. #6
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like

  11. #7
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    20220220_180245.jpg
    20220220_180249.jpg

    Well there's your problem right there (and the reason I got the whole car so cheap):

    20220220_182310.jpg

    And if I had long enough 7/16"x14 bolts she'd be on the stand right now. Oh well, another trip to Ace is in order.

    20220220_184637.jpg

  12. #8
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    How do I post full size pics?

  13. #9
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    I love finding Easter Eggs in projects as I tear them apart.



    I was going with a 3.27 anyway.

  14. #10
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Posts
    8,000
    Post Thanks / Like
    Good find! I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 3.27 from the factory in a 5 speed pushrod engine SN95. More often found in automatic equipped mod motor cars. That will work well if you use the original T-5 with it’s short 3.35 first gear!

    Jeff

  15. #11
    Senior Member John Ibele's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    717
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hey, welcome to the fun. Great to see experienced folks do a build thread, as was already mentioned. Looking forward to your updates.
    MK4 #7838: IRS 3.55 TrueTrac T5z Dart 347
    The drawing is from ~7th grade, mid-1970s
    Meandering, leisurely build thread is here

  16. Thanks MB750 thanked for this post
  17. #12
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Good find! I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 3.27 from the factory in a 5 speed pushrod engine SN95. More often found in automatic equipped mod motor cars. That will work well if you use the original T-5 with it’s short 3.35 first gear!

    Jeff
    There's an outside chance this car had an Auto from the factory, but going from Auto to Manual is a real pain in the *** so chances are this is an OG axle. I can run the options if I dig deep enough, but I'm at the point with this car where now that I've gutted all the assets I want it gone and get started on the engine.

    I might be able to run the tag off the trans and see what it comes with.

  18. #13
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Current state of the engine:



    Checking the bore, just for fun. Zero on the gauge is exactly 4.000":



    Turned 90 degrees in the same cylinder. Little bit egg-shaped, but at 133K miles that's to be expected. At least the bore isn't too large for OEM slugs:


  19. #14
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    I've got a set of Wiseco 4.030" bore forged pistons on the way that only have -7cc relief volume. In conjunction with the AFR heads I'm going with at 59cc combustion chambers I can be anywhere from 8.3:1 up around 10:1 depending on the thickness of the Cometic head gaskets I use. I'll be starting at 10:1 since this engine will only be fed 93 octane, and I'll have complete control over the timing. If I ever slap a power adder on it (boost) I'll just get thicker head gaskets and longer pushrods.

  20. #15
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Current state of the block. Basically ready for the machine shop:



    And Christmas came early!





    I've had very good luck with Wiseco across many different engine builds so I wanted to stick with them. Yes they're more expensive than Hypereutectic pistons, but the older I get the more I go with what I know works.

  21. Likes egchewy79, WIS89, nucjd19 liked this post
  22. #16
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    So I just learned something I'd like to share with y'all. There's two common forgings for AL pistons; 4032 and 2618. These slugs are 4032 forged aluminum. That's all well and good, but in my speed lust I was planning on boosting this engine if the power ever came up lacking. Nothing crazy, only about 7-10 psi, and I can soften the compression with thicker Cometic head gaskets, but apparently 4032 doesn't take well to being boosted (or used with N2O) on account of it being slightly more brittle than 2618. It's a great OEM replacement option since it's stronger than cast and more malleable than hypereutectic, but apparently not soft enough for even mild boost like the 2618 is.

    And when I dig further Wiseco also makes 2618 forgings for the 302, but they're around $900, and that's just for the slugs. Add for rings and you're over a grand! I got this whole kit for $575, so I'll take my 4032's and run what I brung.

    Edit: I should say, Wiseco "recommends" not using these 4032 pistons in a boosted application, but there's TONS of people on the internet doing it with no reported issues. Granted, I'm not talking about drag applications, just hot street, 500hp type stuff. I'm still going to take the ring gaps out to boosted values as well, just in case.
    Last edited by MB750; 03-08-2022 at 05:30 PM.

  23. Thanks WIS89, nucjd19 thanked for this post
    Likes nucjd19 liked this post
  24. #17
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Also had some fun with the press tonight. Slid the wrist pins out of the OEM pistons and rods, then put the pistons in their appropriate location:





    And just for fun I wanted to see just how much interference there was between the wrist pin and the small end of the rod:







    And also checking the Wiseco wrist pins. Same diameter as OEM:


  25. Likes WIS89 liked this post
  26. #18
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Playing with the axle a bit. There was quite a leak coming from somewhere so I split the cover off and rested it upright to see what end the leak was coming out of:





    From the looks of that little spot there might be a seal change in my future, but that could also be residue dripping down from all the previous leaking down the front of the differential. I'll leave it like this for a few weeks to see.

  27. #19
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Got the block back today, clean as a whistle:



    4.030" bore:



    With confirmation:



    Also decked the block so I'll have something very close to zero for sunk pistons, which will allow me easy math to completely adjust CR with Cometic head gaskets. And new freeze plugs, cam bearings, and magnafluxed.

    Special thanks to Scotty's Racing Engines up in Shady Hills, FL. Great people to work with.

  28. Likes Fman, WIS89 liked this post
  29. #20
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Started playing with the engine tonight. Gapping rings seemed like a good Thursday evening task:



    I made a ring depth tool out of some small bolts and one of the old pistons. This way the rings are set exactly the same depth all the way around:



    There was literally zero gap at first, so I ended up starting every one of them on the ring filer





    Repeat 16 more times, then bag em' and tag em'




    I also decided to play with the rods. I bought ARP rod studs and I wanted to see how hard getting the old ones out would be, so I randomly grabbed rod #5 and noticed something. It just seemed a little cockeyed, so I compared it to #1. Low and behold:



    Knocking the studs out was easy though, and since this rod was shot I didn't care how ham-fisted I was about it.

    Ugh, time to go rod shopping.

  30. #21
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Only 7 pics per post apparently. Here's a better shot of the rod with Peyronie's:



    Any suggestions on replacements?

  31. #22
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Gave my crank a good polishin' tonight:


  32. #23
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    No pics, just info. I mic'd the crank journal clearance with the new bearings I got from Summit and I've got .003". Ideally you want .001" of clearance for each inch of journal diameter. This means my max should be .0023". .003" is too much, so I ordered some .001" undersized bearings to get me more in the window I'm interested in. I'd like to run 5W30 in this engine and you should be at the tight end of the spec for that. Thicker oils are for fatter gaps.

  33. #24
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'll let you guess which one is the aftermarket rod:



    And they're floating wrist pins with a brass bushing, so no more pressing the wrist pins into the rods like a neanderthal. The listing says they're rated for 1000 hp, but color me skeptical. They're at least beefier looking than the OEM rod. Big end is perfectly round too, not even off a ten-thousandth.

  34. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    2,108
    Post Thanks / Like
    MB-

    I have enjoyed reading your build thread. I also admit that I sincerely admire you for taking on the engine rebuild yourself! I have always admired the guys that could do that work. Frankly, it scares the heck out of me! There is so much riding on such small tolerances. I just know I would make a modest mistake, or overlook one item, and would be picking up engine pieces out of the neighbor's trees!

    Thanks for bringing us along for the journey, and, good luck the rest of the way! I am really looking forward to following your progress -- give it heck!!

    Regards,

    Steve

  35. Thanks MB750 thanked for this post
  36. #26
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by WIS89 View Post
    MB-

    I have enjoyed reading your build thread. I also admit that I sincerely admire you for taking on the engine rebuild yourself! I have always admired the guys that could do that work. Frankly, it scares the heck out of me! There is so much riding on such small tolerances. I just know I would make a modest mistake, or overlook one item, and would be picking up engine pieces out of the neighbor's trees!

    Thanks for bringing us along for the journey, and, good luck the rest of the way! I am really looking forward to following your progress -- give it heck!!

    Regards,

    Steve
    Thank you Steve. I've built a few Harley engines before so I'm not too nervous. So far I'm just making sure all the I's are dotted and T's crossed based on my previous engine building experience. Rest assured, I'll be 100% transparent during this entire build process. This stuff is fun for me. Kinda relaxing to be honest.

  37. Likes WIS89 liked this post
  38. #27
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    I got the undersized bearings from Summit yesterday and got the crank in this AM. Nice .002" clearance max now.



    Now to hang the rods on the pistons. Orientation is important since there's a chamfered edge on one side of the big end of the rod that hugs up against the counterweight side of the journal:



    The chamfered side points forward on pistons 1 thru 4 and backward on 5 thru 8



    Chamfer:



    In contrast, the other side of the same rod:


  39. Thanks WIS89 thanked for this post
  40. #28
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Some people hate Spiro locks. If you know how to use them they're very easy to install, just a pain to remove.

    First, stretch them out about 2" long. They'll spring back to about an inch:



    Start the one end in the groove, then follow it down with a screwdriver:







    Done. Make it click. Easy peasy:


  41. Thanks WIS89 thanked for this post
  42. #29
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Assembly lube it all up and slide the wrist pin in. I LOVE this over the press fit style...



    Check the end



    Install the other Spiro Lock to finish the job:



    And repeat seven more times...


  43. Thanks WIS89 thanked for this post
  44. #30
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    And now the annoying news, I need undersized rod bearings as well. I did the same thing as on the mains and have .003" clearance on the rod bearings, which is more than I want. Clevite to the rescue again, just have to wait a few days for Summit to pull thru. Oh well. Not like I'm in a hurry or anything.
    Last edited by MB750; 04-03-2022 at 08:05 PM.

  45. Likes WIS89 liked this post
  46. #31
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Got my undersized rod bearings yesterday so now I had something to do on the engine. Checked sizing and now we've got no more than .002".

    Next up, install them slugs. First, install the new bearings in the rods



    Then lube up all the rings, being mindful of the orientation:





    Slide the tapered ring compressor (these things are sweet!)



    Lube up the skirts, then head over to the block



    Once they're on the block you really gotta press down on the ring compressor so the really narrow oil retention rings don't catch on the top of the bore. Then using a mallet made of anything other than steel, tap it down:




  47. Thanks WIS89 thanked for this post
  48. #32
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Keep tapping but DON'T let the big end of the rod hit that polished crankshaft:



    Lube up the journal and tap it down while guiding it on:



    Now put the Moly paste on the threads and under the head of the rod bolts and finish the job. Torque down to 63 ft-lbs per the manufacturer:





    And repeat seven more times:


  49. Thanks WIS89 thanked for this post
  50. #33
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    I wanted to check how much torque was eaten up in the form of rotating resistance. Only 18 ft-lbs, not bad. Newer 1mm ring packs that typically come on the latest tech pistons and many import engines have even less. But back in the muscle car days the huge ring packs ate up over 40 ft-lbs.



    Now to find TDC and see how much the piston sticks out (or in) the bore. I asked Scotty's to take 10 thou off the deck to make the pistons flush. Let's see how well it went.



    Testing the trusty depth gauge (that's much older than I am) on the deck was exactly 0.000"



    I can live with 3 TEN-thousandths.

  51. Thanks WIS89 thanked for this post
  52. #34
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Next order of business, I've got an order coming with a cam, some lifters, cam drive gear set, and a gasket kit for the timing cover and water pump. Once those are on I can wrap up the oil pan, but before that I need to weld a bung on it for a turbo oil drain just in case I ever decide to boost this thing.

    Then it's time to order my AFR heads and rockers.
    Last edited by MB750; 04-08-2022 at 02:00 PM.

  53. #35
    Senior Member nucjd19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Posts
    789
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by MB750 View Post
    Only 7 pics per post apparently. Here's a better shot of the rod with Peyronie's:



    Any suggestions on replacements?
    I would be the last person to recommend a replacement but LOVE how you dropped in a little medical jargon .. Totally agree there is a slight curve
    FFR MK4 Roadster (9945) complete kit, delivered 12/4/2020, First start and go kart 5/7/2021. Legal 8/14/2021, Paint finished 7/18/2022 (Viking Blue). 347BPE CI, TKO600, Moser 8.8 3link 3.55, Halibrand 17x9 17x10.5, power steering. Carbon Fiber Dash. Carbon Fiber trans tunnel, adjustable Kirkey Lowback Vintage seats, Vintage gauges, RT drop trunk mod, FFmetal drop battery mod and trans tunnel, Forte front sway bar. Forte mechanical throttle linkage, RT gas pedal. www.covespringsfarm.com

  54. Thanks MB750 thanked for this post
  55. #36
    Senior Member Blitzboy54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Albany, NY
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    This is fun to watch. Great job with this thread. I used the same pistons in my 306. Well, not the “same pistons” but you know what I mean.

    Like you I built a few bikes soup to nuts. I chickened out on a lot of the engine assembly and I definitely regret it. Nobody is going to care about your engine as much as you. I think I will have an 818 in my future someday and will do that from the ground up.

    Welcome aboard!
    MK4 #10008 - Ordered 10/06/20, Delivered 03/03/21, First Start 7/22/21, First Go Kart 7/24/21
    Paint by Metal Morphous 5/14/22, Legally registered 6/8/22, Graduated 7/20/22
    Build Thread https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...been-delivered
    Complete Kit, Ford 306, Sniper/Dual Sync, T5, Hydraulic clutch

  56. Thanks MB750 thanked for this post
  57. #37
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzboy54 View Post
    ...Nobody is going to care about your engine as much as you. I think I will have an 818 in my future someday and will do that from the ground up.
    That is exactly why I do much of my own work on everything. To the simplest extent, why pay some kid to change my oil when I can do it myself cheaper and have a 100% guarantee the exact oil I wanted with the exact filter was used. And I can do some other maintenance and checks during the process (air tires, check the undercarriage for issues, check air filter, etc...) I'm very passionate about mechanical systems. NOBODY will care for my stuff better than me.

    Have fun with that 818. I had a 2009 WRX back a few years ago and it was a blast, especially in the snow (when I lived in Wisconsin). I may also do an 818 some day but I'll definitely do a boosted version. It'd be nice if they did an AWD/front engine version as well.

  58. #38
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sorry I didn't get any progress pics on this, but there wasn't much neat to see anyway. Just installing the cam, lifters, spider, and timing chain. I went with the B303 PLUS cam from Summit. It's just like the Ford Motorsports B-cam but with more lift.





    Once I get the heads on I'll be confirming the cam timing.

  59. #39
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sometimes I crack myself up. Building a $50,000 car but instead of spending $20 on a cheap aluminum degree wheel I made one out of a bucket lid, an extra washer, some contact cement, and a printout of a degree wheel from Google images:





    That'll work.

  60. Likes Barwickad, WIS89 liked this post
  61. #40
    Senior Member MB750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like
    I realized I don't necessarily need the heads to adjust the cam timing. You just need to make sure the lifter doesn't stick anywhere during its sweep. Keeping that in mind:

    Find TDC and set degree wheel to it:





    Now move the dial indicator over to one of the lifters and reset it to zero:



    This is the cam card that came with the cam. Important data on here, which we're going to verify right now.



    Spin the crank SLOWLY until you see the lifter go up .050" (fifty thousandths of an inch). This is where appreciable air flow starts so many cam cards base their specs off it.



    Make note of the degree wheel reading:



    Now spin the crank around so the lifter passes its own lobe center, then back down but stopping at .050" to get the reading on the other side of the lobe:


  62. Likes WIS89, Blitzboy54 liked this post
Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Brown County Customs

Visit our community sponsor