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Thread: Coyote fan on temperature

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    Coyote fan on temperature

    For all you Coyote users out there. I have had my gen 2 coyote on the road for two months and it runs great except for one issue. The fan kicks on when the obd2 reader shows the temperature hits 178 degrees and with the thermostat keeping the engine at 192 the fan never turns off. I have a tune from Lund racing and they have been unable to change it. I have the fan controlled with the orange wire direct from the coyote computer as the instructions said to do. Engine never gets over 198 degrees and I know the gen 2 in the mustang has the fan kick on well over 200 degrees. Any thoughts? It is loud and I see no reason to have the fan on when forward movement of the car keeps it cool at highway speed.

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    I have the exact experience with my Gen 2 Coyote in #8674 and have heard the same from others. The radiator fan comes on early (usually before I'm out of my sub on a warm day) and pretty much never goes off. I asked Ford Performance about it. They said they have it programmed that way intentionally since, as they said, they have no control how the engines will be installed so they error on the side of very conservative. I have a Lund tune in mine as well. I asked them about it too. They didn't indicate they couldn't change it. But maybe that was left unsaid. What they did say was they didn't recommend changing it. In other words, leave it the way Ford intended it. I've gotten used to. I can only hear it when stopped. Rest of the time between wind noise, traffic, side pipes (Gas-N's) I can't hear it.
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    There has to be a better way.
    I have a similar situation with my small block.
    It seems to me what we really should be monitoring is the radiator outlet temperature, not the engine's, to control the fan. I think a sensor in the radiator outlet hose, maybe with a relay, can be used to turn the fan on and off.
    I plan to try it in the near future on my small block.

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    Edwardb, I have run into the same response from Lund, but Ford is looking into it. Lund has tried to change the tune to make the fan turn on at 205 but still won't change fan on from 178 degrees. It shouldn't be this way and a tune can and should control the fan on temp. I think it's a fail safe setting in the ecu that is overriding the tune. I have a phone call with Ford tomorrow morning and will report back. Must be a way to make the coyote cooling system fan run like it does in the mustang which doesn't turn on until well over 200 degrees.

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rsnake View Post
    Edwardb, I have run into the same response from Lund, but Ford is looking into it. Lund has tried to change the tune to make the fan turn on at 205 but still won't change fan on from 178 degrees. It shouldn't be this way and a tune can and should control the fan on temp. I think it's a fail safe setting in the ecu that is overriding the tune. I have a phone call with Ford tomorrow morning and will report back. Must be a way to make the coyote cooling system fan run like it does in the mustang which doesn't turn on until well over 200 degrees.
    I'll be very interested if you get a different story from Ford Performance. When I talked to them they were very intentional about having it set just the way it is. Based on their comments to me, how it is in a Mustang is a moot point. That setup is thoroughly tested, so they can have some confidence in the setting. For our crate motors, as they told me (whether we agree or not) they have it set to run basically constantly because they can't control how the engine is installed, cooled, etc.

    On a related note, I'll be interested to see if the Gen 3 Coyote I've installed in my Coupe build will act the same way. Will find out hopefully in a couple months.
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    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    My Gen One fan is locked car runs at 180 most of the time about 209/212 in heavy summer stop & go traffic. Fan never shuts down once it comes on.
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    So I spoke with Ford this morning and the engineer wants to see the ecu. The tech said the fan should come on and off as the temp rises and falls. Plus I am still getting p0116 and the upper clutch error codes. So once my son heads back to Pendleton after Christmas I will box it up and send it back.. I want this engine working correctly. More to come.
    Merry Christmas everyone.

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rsnake View Post
    So I spoke with Ford this morning and the engineer wants to see the ecu. The tech said the fan should come on and off as the temp rises and falls. Plus I am still getting p0116 and the upper clutch error codes. So once my son heads back to Pendleton after Christmas I will box it up and send it back.. I want this engine working correctly. More to come.
    Merry Christmas everyone.
    The P0116 code goes back a couple years and is a false positive. Ford Performance made a correction. At that time, you could send the PCM back to them, or they would send a tuner box with the updated code. Which is what I did along with another forum member. A little surprised Lund doesn't now about this one. This post talks about it, and I cut and pasted the technical details FWIW. https://www.ffcars.com/forums/5523073-post4.html. To the best of my knowledge, this has nothing to do with how the computer controls the cooling fan.

    Upper clutch error codes? I assume related to the upper switch installed on your clutch pedal? You must have an earlier Gen 2 Coyote? Ford Performance eliminated the top switch on later versions. Only has the bottom switch now. I wonder if somehow the PCM coding is messed up in yours because of the changeover? The Gen 3 also only has the bottom switch.

    Will be interested to hear what they say about the fan control with the PCM in hand. You continue to get a different story than when I talked to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    The P0116 code goes back a couple years and is a false positive. Ford Performance made a correction. At that time, you could send the PCM back to them, or they would send a tuner box with the updated code. Which is what I did along with another forum member. A little surprised Lund doesn't now about this one. This post talks about it, and I cut and pasted the technical details FWIW. https://www.ffcars.com/forums/5523073-post4.html. To the best of my knowledge, this has nothing to do with how the computer controls the cooling fan.

    Upper clutch error codes? I assume related to the upper switch installed on your clutch pedal? You must have an earlier Gen 2 Coyote? Ford Performance eliminated the top switch on later versions. Only has the bottom switch now. I wonder if somehow the PCM coding is messed up in yours because of the changeover? The Gen 3 also only has the bottom switch.

    Will be interested to hear what they say about the fan control with the PCM in hand. You continue to get a different story than when I talked to them.
    I am working on the clutch switches right now. My Coyote was delivered January 2017, how can I tell if the Coyote I have needs the top switch or not?

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluse View Post
    I am working on the clutch switches right now. My Coyote was delivered January 2017, how can I tell if the Coyote I have needs the top switch or not?
    Should be pretty obvious. The control pack comes with either one switch or two, and the control pack harness has one connection or two. Both Ford and FF instructions have been updated as well to only show one switch. Very likely yours is only one switch unless it was old stock somehow.
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    Senior Member Jdav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    . At that time, you could send the PCM back to them, or they would send a tuner box with the updated code..
    When I updated mine they made me send it in. I think you and Scott got the hook up with the tuner option.
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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdav View Post
    When I updated mine they made me send it in. I think you and Scott got the hook up with the tuner option.
    Yea, we were special.
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    my control pack dated 9/21/18 came with two switches for the clutch but only had one plug for the bottom switch in the harness.

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    Fan on update. The ecu was sent back to ford and they had an engineer look at it. He changed the fan on temp to 205 and sent the ecu back to me. I installed it this morning and the fan doesn't kick on at 178 anymore. I needed to block off the radiator to get the temp up and at 205 the fan kicked on! So I was excited as I thought I had the issue solved, then I installed the Lund tune and the fan started up at 178 degrees again and Lund had programmed in a 205 fan on temp. Very strange. I sent an email to Lund and will report back when I hear something.

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    Senior Member Paul2STL's Avatar
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    I have the same issue with my fan also. And got the same answer that Paul got. Like Paul said it is little annoying, but for me not worth the hassle of pulling the PCM and sending it back at this time. Would like to find out who Rsnake was talking to at Ford Performance. FYI my engine was dated May 2017 and it has both upper and lower clutch switches.
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    The person at Ford is Tom. Not sure if I should give out his last name. I did speak with Lund today and they did another tune with the stock fan on temperature and I will load it in the next day or two and see what happens. Hopefully it plays nice with the new Ford setting. Hard to believe this cannot be solved. Lund says 99% of the customers want a lower fan on temp and I am an abnormality. I just don't think it should be lower than the thermostat temperature and I don't want to install a lower temp thermostat. Many of the mustang 5.0 guys install a 170 degree thermostat and with a fan on temp of 178 it would probably work well, I just think a modern motor should run warmer.

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    Could you interrupt the ground on the fan through a relay controlled by an adjustable thermostat switch, set to your numbers?
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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rsnake View Post
    The person at Ford is Tom. Not sure if I should give out his last name. I did speak with Lund today and they did another tune with the stock fan on temperature and I will load it in the next day or two and see what happens. Hopefully it plays nice with the new Ford setting. Hard to believe this cannot be solved. Lund says 99% of the customers want a lower fan on temp and I am an abnormality. I just don't think it should be lower than the thermostat temperature and I don't want to install a lower temp thermostat. Many of the mustang 5.0 guys install a 170 degree thermostat and with a fan on temp of 178 it would probably work well, I just think a modern motor should run warmer.
    Agree the engine should be left to run at its designed temps. Just to be clear though, the radiator fan running almost continuously doesn't prevent the engine from running at the proper temp. Mine, even with the fan running a lot, stays regularly in the mid to upper 190's. Right where it should be. So I get you don't want the fan running if it's not really needed. But just didn't want anyone to get the idea it's affecting the engine from running at the temp controlled by the factory 190° thermostat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Railroad View Post
    Could you interrupt the ground on the fan through a relay controlled by an adjustable thermostat switch, set to your numbers?
    You could. Another solution would be just to ditch the Coyote PCM controlled fan altogether and use the RF cooling fan circuit with a sensor on the engine. Not my personal choice, but no different than millions of other older school engines. Would probably work fine.

    Slightly off topic, but I mentioned before about the Gen 3 Coyote and that I'd be curious to see how Ford sets it up. I'm far enough along with the Gen 3 Coyote installation in my Coupe build that I've run it through several heat cycles. The cooling fan definitely kicks on at a higher temp. Somewhere just over 190° according to the Speedhut water temp gauge with the sensor in the port behind the oil filter. The usual place. The computer also turned the fan back off when the temp dropped. Very early so can't give exact details. But I'm nearly positive it's different than the set points they are using in the Gen 2. Interesting.
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    I received the new tune update from Lund and no luck, the fan turns on at 178 degrees ect. I did speak with another tuner who deals with the coyote in the s550 crowd and he recommends a 170 degree thermostat as they can run more timing and make more power. He did say the fan on temp of 178 would be perfect with the lower thermostat. Maybe I just need to ignore the fan and move on but I want this thing to be right and not just deal with it. Not sure what to do now.

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    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Any progress here? I have about 400 miles on my Gen 2 Coyote and the fan is bugging me to no end.
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    Couldn’t you just simply put an in-line thermocouple crimpled into the orange wire? I’m sure there are adjustable thermocouples as well? No?

    If you did that, the computer would simply give power to the thermocouple to decide weather to engage or not... via a user defined temperature.

    I posted something I found in about 20 seconds of looking. I’m sure there are other options out there. Just set Just before your “fail safe” point.

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    Or even put a sail switch in. And forward movement opens the circuit, and a lock of movement closes the circuit.
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    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Adding complexity to such a critical system is my main concern. With the simplest modification being the most reliable - I'd like to see a solution come from Ford or at least a way of changing the on temperature in the computer myself.
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    So, this is not really rocket science. It may be more elegant to have the ECU control the fan. But it appear to be a huge hassle. There are easy and cheap work arounds available.

    The ECU controls the fan by closing the negative ground side of a low amp circuit. That closes the negative side of a relay, which then closes the fan power circuit. The relay can be in the positive or negative side of the circuit, but it could be either; and it doesn't really matter.

    Buy this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16731/overview/ $27.29. Install it in the ground side of the fan circuit. Problem solved for $30 and 30 minutes.
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    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cowan View Post
    So, this is not really rocket science. It may be more elegant to have the ECU control the fan. But it appear to be a huge hassle. There are easy and cheap work arounds available.

    The ECU controls the fan by closing the negative ground side of a low amp circuit. That closes the negative side of a relay, which then closes the fan power circuit. The relay can be in the positive or negative side of the circuit, but it could be either; and it doesn't really matter.

    Buy this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16731/overview/ $27.29. Install it in the ground side of the fan circuit. Problem solved for $30 and 30 minutes.
    I was contemplating this, just hadn't done any research. Thanks for doing the leg work.
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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    FWIW, finishing up my third season and now at 6,300 miles. The fan running most of the time just isn't a big deal IMO. Totally used to it and don't even notice it any more. You're obviously kind of tuned to it. But honestly is it worth risking your motor over the fan not running and potentially overheating? I can't hear mine except when stopped. When driving I can't hear it, and I have relatively quiet Gas-N pipes. Agreed that $30 solution is relatively simple. But where are you going to install it? Need to find an available location and be mindful of the coolant flow to make sure it's in the right place. Then keep an eye on your gauges just in case. Also can sometimes detect that the fuel pump is running when stopped, but that doesn't bother me either and no options there.
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    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    FWIW, finishing up my third season and now at 6,300 miles. The fan running most of the time just isn't a big deal IMO. Totally used to it and don't even notice it any more. You're obviously kind of tuned to it. But honestly is it worth risking your motor over the fan not running and potentially overheating? I can't hear mine except when stopped. When driving I can't hear it, and I have relatively quiet Gas-N pipes. Agreed that $30 solution is relatively simple. But where are you going to install it? Need to find and available location and be mindful of the coolant flow to make sure it's in the right place. Then keep an eye on your gauges just in case. Also can sometimes detect that the fuel pump is running when stopped, but that doesn't bother me either and no options there.
    I'm tempted to pull the fan off and inspect it. Even my neighbor said the fan is loud when I drive by, which makes me wonder if the fan has changed in design or something is wrong with mine.
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  28. #28
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    What do you guys think about a PWM fan controller? Maradyne, the same people that make the fan, offer a soft start, half speed with controllable on temp fan controller.
    Bradley

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  29. #29
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    There are plenty of aftermarket fan controllers available. Pretty much everyone w/ a carb has one. The main question is where to put the sensor. Easy on an old SBF but I am not knowledgeable enough on Coyote to know if there is a spare threaded hole somewhere or not. There are some systems w/ a probe that goes between the radiator fins.
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    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    That is the issue. There aren’t any good locations except possibly a port housing installed in the return radiator hose. The existing sending unit is a thought too, but I don’t know if that works with all PWM controllers.

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