VAHokie's Roadster Build Thread - Body Fitment Questions

[VAHokie]

I had to add a 90 deg fitting so the tire would not rub the brake line.

Attachment 119730

Attachment 119731

I may encounter the same thing but don't have my wheels/tires yet to test it out. I may go that route just to be safe as it was a recommendation from the build school instructors and others have done the same.

[jrcuz]

Good fix, Tony.

[VAHokie]

Been awhile since my last post but have been plugging away at a few things, specifically installation of the Breeze front battery tray and the rear flex brake hose mounts in preparation for running the hard lines. As with all the Breeze parts I've used to date, the front battery tray is a quality part. I had never tapped a hole before so this was a new learning experience for me. I picked up a tap and die set and the required drill bit sizes that corresponded with the tap sizes. I found lubricating the tap and hole sufficiently, as well as tapping the hole in a step fashion with a full turn forward and half turn back to clear out the shavings worked well. I'm now planning to tap the cushion clamps to the frame vs. riveting them when I run the hard brake lines. Here's a pic of the installed piece.



Next up were the rear DS and PS flex house mounts. There's a couple of different places you can install these and I opted for the diagonal tube for the UCA. This location placed it closest to the caliper fitting for the flex hose to run too and it created to clear paths for the hard brake lines with the supplied "T" fitting. Here are pics of the DS and PS.

[VAHokie]

Next up are the hard brake lines. Couple of questions for folks:

1) For those running the Nicopp lines, is a rock guard mandatory or are the lines sturdy enough to handle everyday road debris?

2) For the front run from the MC to the DS "T" fitting, the instructions have you going out alongside the bottom 3/4" tube for a straight shot to the fitting, which I like. But I see a lot of folks going out the top and down alongside the upper 3/4" tube and then straight down behind the F-panel. I'm assuming folks are taking the higher path because the lower 3/4" tube is close to the headers - same reason folks take the MC to the rear of the car on the inside of the footbox, which I plan to do also. Here's what I mocked up for the higher path. The line is sitting a little high coming out of the footbox as I haven't clearance the panel yet to allow it to set in. Will do that once I decide this is the best of the two paths.

[Cruzzz]

Welcome back! Lol. I have been MIA for a while as well. Plan to do a mass update this week. On the brake lines...I didn’t use a gravel guard because many stated it mostly just gathered dirt, salt, etc and may cause more problems then solved. I also ran my front lines along the top rail then down mostly because it was a cleaner routing and once the motor is in there is a lot going on closer to the bottom rail including the headers you noted. You can see my routing for the front and back in posts #43-44 of my build thread. I was able to use standard pre-made lengths of Niccop from the chain auto parts store. I included the required lengths in post 43. Went in very easy. Bent it by hand.

[jrcuz]

Welcome back Tony, work looks good. Your planned brake line routing looks good. Now I wish I had gone with the Nicopp lines.
JR

[VAHokie]

Finally got around to installing/running the hard brake lines. As this was my first time every doing this, I took some advice from EdwardB's thread and purchased a roll of copper tubing from the local hardware store to dial in the routing before transferring it over to the provided steel hard lines. This stuff is very malleable which makes it forgiving and easy to work with. I was able to get the DS to PS front line mocked up going along the front of the x-member and proceeded to transfer it over to the steel line using a bending tool. Long story short, it was evident this was my first time bending lines and I eventually scrapped the provided steel lines in favor of Nicopp as it's easier to work with and has the added benefit of being corrosion resistant. I ended up purchasing pre-flared lines from the local autoparts store and was able to do everything with four (4) 60" lines and one (1) 40" line. Here's how everything turned out. I haven't affixed the lines to the frame yet as I want to bleed the system and ensure everything is good to go before final install.

Word of caution for folks who opt for purchasing the pre-flared Nicopp lines from a local autoparts store: be sure to check the flares on the end. Many of them had askew flares on the end like you see below. It wasn't an issue for me as jrcuz lent me his professional flaring tool which made quick work of putting quality flares on the end, but for someone who doesn't have access to the tool, it might be a different story.


Birdseye view of the pedalbox with the rear line to the left so that it has a straight shot to run down through the inner footbox, and the front line to the right to exit out the top front face of the footbox.


View of the front brake line exiting the top front face of the footbox.


View of the front brake line connection to the DS T fitting.


Routing across the front of the x member.


Final connection to the PS.

[VAHokie]

For the run to the rear, I came down the inboard side of the DS footbox and out through the bottom of the floor.


My only union underneath the DS. Note: I still need to remove the leftover adhesive from the product tags on the ends of the brake lines. I'm thinking baby oil and a cottonball, but open to suggestions.


Here's the back half of the rear run. Although it angles up and isn't the typical 90 degree turn up the square tube, it works really well and sits tight up against the frame.


I don't believe UCA travel will impact the placement of the line here. I think if it did, it would mean a blown shock and I'd have bigger issues. Open to differing opinions though.


Here's the rear T fitting.


And the final run between the two rear brakes. Event though this is probably the easiest of the lines to run being mostly a straight shot, it took three lines to get it right. Part of that is because I was shortening the 40" line to fit exactly and, you know how that goes, cut a little short and you're done. It's still not as clean as I'd like it to be but it should work.

[jrcuz]

Wow Tony, you've been busy. Glad all went well. I think I used about 3 store bought "extra" pieces also.
JR

[Caddy Dad]

Hi Tony,
Lines look good! I also ran my rear brake lines as a straight shot, but I bent a pig tail in each end to give me some margin as I'm still challenged at cutting the tubing to the exact length. That way I could shorten or lengthen a bit for an exact fit. I used Ni-Cop for my fuel lines but used the lines that came with the kit for the brakes. If I ever have to do it over again, I'd go with Ni-Cop every where.

Cheers!

[VAHokie]

Wow Tony, you've been busy. Glad all went well. I think I used about 3 store bought "extra" pieces also.
JR

Thanks, Jerry. Really appreciate you lending me the professional flaring tool. It made quick and beautiful work of these Nicopp lines.

Hi Tony,
Lines look good! I also ran my rear brake lines as a straight shot, but I bent a pig tail in each end to give me some margin as I'm still challenged at cutting the tubing to the exact length. That way I could shorten or lengthen a bit for an exact fit. I used Ni-Cop for my fuel lines but used the lines that came with the kit for the brakes. If I ever have to do it over again, I'd go with Ni-Cop every where.

Cheers!

Thanks, Frank. If I end up going with hard lines for the fuel lines, i'll definitely go with Nicopp. Still on the fence between the hard lines and flexible nylon race hose.

[VAHokie]

Working on a bunch of stuff over the past couple of weeks to include installation of the radiator with Breeze upper and lower mounts, refinishing the provided brake reservoir to be re-purposed as the gas tank vent filter (why waste a perfectly good part?!?), and finalizing the brake system so it can be bled - more on all of these things soon once I've wrapped them up. During all this, made some decisions around wheel selection and insulation. For the wheels, I wanted something modern and elected to go with the new FFR gasser wheels. I debated and spent A LOT of time considering and researching prices for forged wheels from Forgeline, Billet Specialties, US Mags, etc. Found a couple I liked but in the end couldn't justify spending $1K per wheel and didn't want to take the risk of having to figure out the appropriate backspacing, offset and other measurements (although fairly straight forward) needed to ensure they fit properly.

Here's one of the front wheels "mounted". They'll be going off to powder coating soon to be refinished in a satin black.


I also pulled the trigger on the interior insulation. Thanks to everyone who weighed in on my Insulation Preferences thread, I had a ton of options to research and ultimately settled on the SecondSkin Damplifier Pro heat/sound insulation. It's at the higher end of the price per sq. ft. spectrum but I was able to score 60 sq ft of their B-stock for a steep discount, which actually brought it under budget.

[jrcuz]

Hi Tony, good choice on the wheels and second skin. I"ve had my heat/sound insulation from Eastwood for quite a while should be installing it soon.
JR

[VAHokie]

Almost have the radiator install wrapped up, just need to finish cleaning up the horizontal 3/4 tube after cutting off the support tubes to allow for the Breeze upper radiator support hinge. Also went with the Breeze lower radiator support bracket. After mocking up the radiator to the suggested angle (58 vs. 51 degrees for me as I have the ReplicaParts aluminum radiator panel), I was able to get the lower radiator support bracket in position.

Here's a pick of the lower radiator support hardware from Breeze with a couple coats of chassis paint and clear for protection. I also did the same for the upper radiator support hinge and hardware.


Here's the radiator in position and ready to be affixed to the lower support brace. Holding off on going any further until I can address the clean-up mentioned above.


Also turned my attention to applying some of the insulation to the DS footbox. Many others recommend applying this before riveting the panels in place and I now see why. I'll second, third, or whatever number we're on that recommendation. It is tight in there and I think I may even try to apply some of the carpet piece as well. I find the insulation extremely easy to work with and the process of applying it to the panels to be painless, although time consuming.

Some of the panels like the DS footbox access panel required a Frankenstein approach due to the hole and rivnuts I have installed.


Other panels like the DS footbox top outside panel are straightforward.


I have all the DS panels covered up until where the panels overlap and rivets will be placed. I may end up covering those areas up after everything is installed, although that would prevent me from doing any initial carpet install as noted early. Something i'll need to spend more time thinking about, although recommendations are always welcome! To ensure proper coverage of the insulation, I needed to install all of the panels to mark the overlaps. In doing so, I got my first look at many of the engine bay PC'd parts installed, which I have to say looks pretty good. I'll be tackling the PS footbox and firewall next.

[jrcuz]

You've been busy Tony. Looks good.
JR

[Caddy Dad]

Looks good! I did not insulate the access panel of my DS footbox before installation. I didn't think it was needed, but now rethinking that decision. Maybe I can put a small custom piece in there but I'm thinking I'll just use as is. The juice may not be worth the squeeze for me.

Cheers!

[JB in NOVA]

VAHokie, I just finished reviewing your entire build to date. Very impressive! Thanks for including so much detail. It is very helpful for newbies like me. I'm in McLean, so hopefully we can get together at some point.

[jrcuz]

Tony, here are the pics. I couldn't see how to add them to my pm.
JR

[VAHokie]

Woefully behind in updating this build thread, but certainly not for a lack of wrenching on the car. Lots of good progress over the past two months, with a few highs and lows that i'll share over the next couple of posts. First up, a real kick in the b@!!z with the radiator install. Hopefully others following behind me will learn from my mistakes.

As noted in post #214 above, I went with a number of the Breeze radiator components, including the upper radiator hinge mount. Installation requires cutting off the tabs on the horizontal brace - easy enough. Removed both with ease but managed to slightly (~1") cut into the edge of the horizontal brace. OCD kicked in and I convinced myself that I couldn't have this blemish on the car. I enlisted the help of my next door neighbor who does various welding projects around the house and on his trucks to lay a small weld bead along the edge to close it up, which I would clean up, paint and on one would be the wiser. Long story short, a combination of excessive heat, thin metal, or other factors that I couldn't piece together, it resulted in more holes along the bottom edge, almost as if someone took a cheese grater to it.





Spoke to FFR Tech and they confirmed the horizontal bar is structural. Despite how bad it looks, the bar is still very solid and doesn't have any give, although my yanking on it isn't anywhere near the forces it will likely endure on turns, etc. I settled on cutting a piece of 3/4" angle iron to reinforce the bar, which I confirmed with FFR would be an acceptable solution.







I ended up painting the horizontal bar with some POR15 and plan to put silicone between it and the angle iron to ensure a water tight seal so as not to allow moisture in there. For those experienced builders out there, would be interested to hear your thoughts on this solution.

[VAHokie]

My transmission will have a hydraulic clutch which left the hole for clutch cable free to run the remote reservoir tubes through to the MCs. I had a heck of a time finding a grommet that would fit the hole, eventually settling on drilling it out to a 1.5" diameter and using a grommet that MSumners had left over and was kind enough to send me (thanks, Mike!). Opened up the grommet to fit the three tubes and we're in business. For anyone interested in taking this approach, here's the grommet used.

[VAHokie]

I ordered my engine and trans package at the end of April, which included an upgraded fuel system to include an in-tank fuel pump and hangar, 3/8" nylon race hose, regulator, wiring and all the AN fittings needed to route the feed and return lines. I had the builder send this in advance so I could mock up the lines to the engine bay in advance of the engine arriving in late June. I opted for this upgrade for a couple of reasons, but mostly because plumbing an in-tank fuel pump with feed and return lines now will make any possible future EFI upgrade much easier.

The Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump and hangar are shipped ready to drop right into the tank without any modifications. It took longer pulling the gas tank from the car and getting it on my workbench (not necessary, but makes pump install easier) than installing the actual fuel pump. Despite being extra cautious and taking my time, I managed to knick and expose one of the wires on the edge of the tank opening.





Spoke to Aeromotive Tech, some folks on the forum and others, and the general belief is that it would be alright as-is from a you-won't-blow-up-the-car perspective, but the exposed wire could corrode overtime being exposed to the gasoline and do you really want to have an exposed wire weighing on your mind at all times. No thanks. I have a some Molex Perma-seal butt connectors on their way that are resistant to fuel and that others on the forum have used for connecting in-tank wires with great success.

[VAHokie]

While waiting for the butt connectors, I started routing my feed and return lines along the PS side frame which you'll see in the next couple of pics. As the fuel lines enter and exit underneath the PS seating area, I mounted them up against the bottom vs. against the 4" tube. I did this because mounting them up against the 4" tube seemed to place them too close to the edges of the frame base, which I felt might lead to an eventual failure in the future due to excessive rubbing. But in placing them under the frame base, it pulls the hoses out away from the frame upon enter and exit of that area, which also has it's potential challenges. Interested to hear what folks think here - better to have up against the frame rail or OK as-is?

Here's the nylon race hose. High quality stuff and paired with the black AN fittings, it's going to look nice.


Here's are the feed and return lines leaving the trunk area towards the PS 4" horizontal frame tube.


Coming down the rectangular tube to the 4" round tube. Note, the lines aren't tight in place which is why you're seeing a little slop in the line.


Entry underneath the back side of the PS cockpit. You can see here how it's mounted up underneath and then back against the 4" frame tube.


Heading out the front side of the PS cockpit and turning up into the engine bay.


Here's a birds eye view of the hoses entering/exiting the PS cockpit section and you can see the gaps I reference above.

[jrcuz]

Tony, you have been busy. That looks like a good fix for the horizontal tube/hinge mount. I originally did something very similar with the hyd. lines running through the clutch cable hole and was able to get the grommets at Lowes. On the knicked wire I couldn't sleep at night either, sounds like a good fix. On the fuel line routing I don't see any problems so far. Thanks for the updates.
JR

[Caddy Dad]

Fuel line runs look ok to me. Maybe add some AN hose separators to tidy it up a bit? Or you could use zip ties as separators as we learned in the build school (a lot cheaper too). But everything else is looking good!

[VAHokie]

Fuel line runs look ok to me. Maybe add some AN hose separators to tidy it up a bit? Or you could use zip ties as separators as we learned in the build school (a lot cheaper too). But everything else is looking good!

Thanks, Frank. I’m going to take another look at putting them up against the 4” tube the whole way back to front. If still concerned with possible rubbing I’ll keep the where they are and use zip ties to pull them closer together. Still doesn’t entirely address those gaps but will help.

[phileas_fogg]

Hey Tony,

Glad to hear you've been making steady progress.

About those fuel lines...I'd think long & hard about the sag of a soft line over that long run to the front. Personally, I strongly prefer a pair of 3/8" hard lines, which you can find at any auto parts store. You can either use the factory flares & quick connects, or cut the flares off & go with fittings from Breeze (you'll have to give Mark a call as they're no longer listed on his website). If you decide to make your own flares, recall that quick connects take a 45* taper and AN fittings take a 37* taper.


John

[GTBradley]

I did the ss flex tubing (though I have the single line) and ran it in a similar fashion. Though mine is on the round tube all the way. There was a little sag so after 1500 miles of driving I added more mount locations.

[VAHokie]

Hey Tony,

Glad to hear you've been making steady progress.

About those fuel lines...I'd think long & hard about the sag of a soft line over that long run to the front. Personally, I strongly prefer a pair of 3/8" hard lines, which you can find at any auto parts store. You can either use the factory flares & quick connects, or cut the flares off & go with fittings from Breeze (you'll have to give Mark a call as they're no longer listed on his website). If you decide to make your own flares, recall that quick connects take a 45* taper and AN fittings take a 37* taper.

Thanks, John. Definitely going to tighten up the line to the 4” tube and remove any slop in it so there isn’t anything hanging off the tube.

I did the ss flex tubing (though I have the single line) and ran it in a similar fashion. Though mine is on the round tube all the way. There was a little sag so after 1500 miles of driving I added more mount locations.

Thanks, Bradley. How is the line holding up to road debris and the elements?

[GTBradley]

I haven't had any issues and being that the line is flexible I don't anticipate any debris breaking through this stuff.

These pictures are before I doubled up on the mount clips:

[Papa]

My lines look similar -- braided lines with separators and clamps along the 4" tube:

[VAHokie]

Based on the recommendations of a few folks on the forum and my general uneasiness about having the fuel lines positioned off the frame tube in the two spots shown above, I went ahead and tucked them in tight.



No particular reason for the lines separating here other than not wanting to put another hole in the frame. I don't believe this will matter.

[VAHokie]

The perma-seal butt connectors also arrived so I was able to fix the knicked wire on the fuel pump and get that back in the tank. I'm praying it's a solid connection so I don't have to go digging back in there for the pump again. As others have commented, these butt connectors are serious business and very solid, not to mention resistant to gas and other fluids.

[VAHokie]

Earlier this week my engine was assembled and is in queue for the dyno, which I'll share once available. I had a particular look for the engine to match my overall scheme, and I think the builder nailed it with the blacked-out, red accent look. Only piece missing in the assembled pic below is the matte black carb with red accents. It's rated at 425/425 but I made some changes to the intake, carb, etc. that will likely impact that. Even still, it'll have plenty of git-up-and-go!

[VAHokie]

I've been avoiding the wiring portion of the build like the plague - it's the one piece that intimidates me. Not sure why, it just does. But with the engine/trans arriving in ~2 weeks, I need to get this taken care of and dove right in. With all the different harnesses laid out in the car and the fuse panel and fuel inertia switch installed, I turned my attention to the dash. I went with a competition dash layout and ultra lite gauges for a more modern look. Doing the competition dash requires purchasing one from a vendor or getting a blank dash from FFR and doing the work yourself, which is what I ended up doing (Big thanks to Caddy Dad for the detailed PDF with measurements - it made laying it out very easy). I used 3.25" (speedo/tach) and 2" (all other gauges) hole saws for the initial cuts and then followed it with a curved file to ease up to a snug fit. I'm still on the fence for the dash covering, which will require pulling out the file again to open up the hole. Little time consuming, but easy enough to do and ensures a nice snug fit.

Here's the dash mocked up with the gauges. You'll see blue painters tape indicating the location of other various buttons, switches, etc., some of which I haven't fully settled on.

[TMartinLVNV]

Earlier this week my engine was assembled and is in queue for the dyno, which I'll share once available. I had a particular look for the engine to match my overall scheme, and I think the builder nailed it with the blacked-out, red accent look. Only piece missing in the assembled pic below is the matte black carb with red accents. It's rated at 425/425 but I made some changes to the intake, carb, etc. that will likely impact that. Even still, it'll have plenty of git-up-and-go!

That looks sexy!

[TMartinLVNV]

I've been avoiding the wiring portion of the build like the plague - it's the one piece that intimidates me. Not sure why, it just does. But with the engine/trans arriving in ~2 weeks, I need to get this taken care of and dove right in. With all the different harnesses laid out in the car and the fuse panel and fuel inertia switch installed, I turned my attention to the dash. I went with a competition dash layout and ultra lite gauges for a more modern look. Doing the competition dash requires purchasing one from a vendor or getting a blank dash from FFR and doing the work yourself, which is what I ended up doing (Big thanks to Caddy Dad for the detailed PDF with measurements - it made laying it out very easy). I used 3.25" (speedo/tach) and 2" (all other gauges) hole saws for the initial cuts and then followed it with a curved file to ease up to a snug fit. I'm still on the fence for the dash covering, which will require pulling out the file again to open up the hole. Little time consuming, but easy enough to do and ensures a nice snug fit.

Here's the dash mocked up with the gauges. You'll see blue painters tape indicating the location of other various buttons, switches, etc., some of which I haven't fully settled on.

I was scared of the wiring for sure. BigBlocker came over and got me started and then I did the rest on my own. Looking back on it now, I consider it one of the funnest parts of the build. I think it is because I learned so much. If I could do it again, it would be so much neater than how I did it. Of course, no one will ever see it. The beer fridge stayed closed when I was working on the wiring

[VAHokie]

I was scared of the wiring for sure. BigBlocker came over and got me started and then I did the rest on my own. Looking back on it now, I consider it one of the funnest parts of the build. I think it is because I learned so much. If I could do it again, it would be so much neater than how I did it. Of course, no one will ever see it. The beer fridge stayed closed when I was working on the wiring

I see you're running the autometer gauges too, so I may be reaching out for consultation!

[TMartinLVNV]

I see you're running the autometer gauges too, so I may be reaching out for consultation!

Sure thing. This post will come in handy for you very soon
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post383523

[jrcuz]

Hi Tony, I'm still wary of doing wiring. I was the same with running brake lines etc but when I finished I wondered why I had put it off. I'm sure you will do fine.
JR

[VAHokie]

Brake Bleeding
It's been awhile since my last post, but a lot going on with the build. I'm going to try to be more consistent with updating this thread. I had ordered my tires (Michelin PS2s) Memorial Day weekend and wanted to get them on the car and make it roller. To do that, I needed to wrap up bleeding the brakes. Following the lead of others, after bench bleeding the master cylinders, I attempted pressure bleeding the system through a homemade system that comprised of a spare reservoir cap that I tapped with a schrader valve into the top and then used a bicycle pump to pressurize the system to the recommended 4-5 psi (based on other threads).

Parts and tools used for the tapped reservoir cap.


Finished product.


Pressure bleeding with bicycle pump. I couldn't get the reservoirs to pressurize as the cap wasn't making an airtight seal, so all it effectively did was push fluid through the system. Other than repeatedly having to check reservoirs to ensure they didn't go dry, it was sufficient to get fluid throughout the system.


With fluid throughout the system, I elected to bleed the system of all air the ol fashioned way. In doing so, I noticed my rear PS caliper had a fluid leak. Quick call to FFR and I had a replacement in hand a short time later (great customer service!).


Unfortunately, when installing the new caliper mounting bracket, I couldn't get the centering notch to align in the middle of the rotor. No combination of shifting, removing shims, discussing with FFR tech, etc. could get the desired result.



In the end I determined/settled on the fact that the replacement caliper mounting bracket was slightly larger than the original, which you can see in the pic below. I believe the larger "shoulder" (left box) was pushing the notch further outboard (right box). Here you can see the old (top) and new (bottom) calipers lined up side-by-side.


To close this out, I ended up using the old caliper mounting bracket and the new caliper to get the desired alignment and all is right in the world. The system is bled and I have a hard pedal.