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Thread: Forte Hydraulic Clutch Install/Body on

  1. #1
    Senior Member RickP's Avatar
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    Forte Hydraulic Clutch Install/Body on

    Anyone with experience installing Mike's hydraulic clutch setup on an MK4 with the body on???

    Spoke to Mike a few weeks ago and batted the idea around and he said it would be very difficult to near impossible to do with the body in place. Just want to get a difficulty level from anyone that has done the deed.

    I aim to ditch the cable setup some how, some way ...........


    Rick

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    I have not done it with the body on but did install his hydraulic clutch during the build. I would agree it’s pretty much impossible with the body on, I believe you will have to disassemble the wilwood pedal box to remove the clutch quadrant and cant see doing that in the car. Even just installing the MC will be tough.

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Open the access cover on the DS footbox (assuming you have one) and check for access to the MC position for the clutch. As already stated, you would need to remove the FF cable setup and replace with the MC. Between access from the open cover and underneath from the cockpit (no fun) might be possible. But you'll have to judge. The only thing is, even with the body off it's not going to help unless you remove aluminum panels that are likely already permanently fastened. Like the entire top of the DS footbox. Maybe even the outside piece. So there's no free lunch with the body off either. Bolting the bracket and slave to the transmission and hooking things up there shouldn't be an issue.
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    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    First, you do have the Wilwood (or other) pedal box that supports three hydraulic cylinders, right? Assuming so, I think the first crux is going to be removing the cable set up. Assuming you can do that, the next crux is going to be installing the master hydraulic cylinder & connecting it to your clutch pedal. On the Wilwood pedal box, the clutch master is directly above the fuse panel. It's not going to be any fun plumbing the reservoir & slave lines either.

    Also, mounting the slave may be tricky depending on your transmission (that's a T5 in the photo below). Mike's bracket goes under a couple of the bolts that secure the transmission to the bell housing.

    Finally, depending on your pedal set up, you may need to add a clutch stop so that the master cylinder stop isn't taking the full brunt of your leg extension.

    Take a look at Post #258, 262, 264, and 394 of my build log (https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fac...r-build-8.html) to get a feel for the work involved.


    John

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phileas_fogg View Post
    Also, mounting the slave may be tricky depending on your transmission (that's a T5 in the photo below). Mike's bracket goes under a couple of the bolts that secure the transmission to the bell housing.
    Good thorough response. Agree with this part, although it's not a body on/off question. It's whether or not the bolts in question are reachable with the engine/trans installed.
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    Senior Member RickP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phileas_fogg View Post
    First, you do have the Wilwood (or other) pedal box that supports three hydraulic cylinders, right? Assuming so, I think the first crux is going to be removing the cable set up. Assuming you can do that, the next crux is going to be installing the master hydraulic cylinder & connecting it to your clutch pedal. On the Wilwood pedal box, the clutch master is directly above the fuse panel. It's not going to be any fun plumbing the reservoir & slave lines either.

    Also, mounting the slave may be tricky depending on your transmission (that's a T5 in the photo below). Mike's bracket goes under a couple of the bolts that secure the transmission to the bell housing.

    Finally, depending on your pedal set up, you may need to add a clutch stop so that the master cylinder stop isn't taking the full brunt of your leg extension.

    Take a look at Post #258, 262, 264, and 394 of my build log (https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fac...r-build-8.html) to get a feel for the work involved.


    John

    Yes, I have the Wilwood pedal box and master cylinder setup and a T5 tranny (currently out of the car being rebuilt).

    Sounds like this upgrade based on what you and Paul have said, might be biting off more than I am willing to chew. I'm having Kliener paint the car and I know he usually does a body-off job. Might make sense to address the upgrade at that time.

    In hindsight, should have gone down this rabbit hole when I was building the drive-line but you don't know what you don't know and I surely didn't at the time.


    I'm going take a closer examination of access to all parts involved.

  8. #7
    Richard Oben's Avatar
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    Do it while the body is off. Just drill out the rivets for the top of the foot box. Had to re drill a pedal from power to manual with the body on, what tough job. Richard.
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    Senior Member RickP's Avatar
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    Correct me if I am over simplifying this task. As I see it, I can easily get to every area/component fairly easily from the top of the foot box access panel. I may need to make room for the clutch master by redirecting bolt heads in another direction on my two brake masters but......

    1. Remove clutch cable from fork.
    2. Release cable from clutch pedal cable quadrant.
    3. Remove cable/fire wall adjuster.
    4. Remove cable quadrant from pedal
    5. Install Wilwood supplied clevis hardware to top of pedal.
    6. Bleed master.
    7. Mount master in Wilwood pedal box location
    8. Connect pedal clevis to master.


    The rest seems to me to be trivial. Am I over simplifying what is needed at the top of the clutch pedal? Do I actually need to remove the pedal? If I remember correctly, the clutch quadrant is mounted with one bolt and subsequently stabilized by "fingers" spread across the pedal web. I can very easily get at that bolt. I am making a huge assumption that its this hole in the pedal is where the clevis attaches to master. If that is true, I really don't see this being a big deal.


    The other option I have bantered around is mounting the master outside of the firewall (American Powertrain or Mcleod). But from what "think" is needed, I really don't see installing Mike's setup as a big deal.

  10. #9
    Senior Member RickP's Avatar
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    I'm looking at the instructions for the Wilwood pedal box installation. Appears the brake masters mount through holes and bolt on via a bracket. How does Mike's Master mount in the pedal box? That little snafu could be the show stopper.

  11. #10
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickP View Post
    I'm looking at the instructions for the Wilwood pedal box installation. Appears the brake masters mount through holes and bolt on via a bracket. How does Mike's Master mount in the pedal box? That little snafu could be the show stopper.
    The Wilwood brake masters mount on studs that are on the back of the pedal box. Mike provides an identical looking MC for the clutch, just different interior bore, that mounts exactly the same way in the third position in line with the clutch pedal arm.
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  12. #11
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    OK, here I come with what to me is an obvious question---why do you want to change from cable to hydraulic? Do you have some super heavy pressure plate or ????

    Jeff

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    Senior Member RickP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    The Wilwood brake masters mount on studs that are on the back of the pedal box. Mike provides an identical looking MC for the clutch, just different interior bore, that mounts exactly the same way in the third position in line with the clutch pedal arm.
    Well that does complicate matters slightly. Hmmmm

  14. #13
    Senior Member RickP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    OK, here I come with what to me is an obvious question---why do you want to change from cable to hydraulic? Do you have some super heavy pressure plate or ????

    Jeff
    Look at Jeff Kleiner chiming in. I'm not a fan of the cable setup. It's already stretched and knocks up against my oil filter. Pedal feel is ok I suppose. I can certainly live with it but there is definitely a better mouse trap out there. My biggest issue with the cable setup is getting it adjusted just right and keeping it adjusted just right. Right now, I have to let the pedal almost all the way out in order for the clutch to grab. I take slack out of the cable and get the right feel where it grabs only to have it stretched later in time.


    One reason I was looking at the internal bearing setup like American Powertrain sells is they are self adjusting to my understanding.

  15. #14
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickP View Post
    ...My biggest issue with the cable setup is getting it adjusted just right and keeping it adjusted just right. Right now, I have to let the pedal almost all the way out in order for the clutch to grab. I take slack out of the cable and get the right feel where it grabs only to have it stretched later in time.

    A genuine Ford cable rather than one from offshore like you'd get at the parts store (or with the Complete kit---sorry to have to say that FFR) will go a long way towards eliminating that. Just sayin'

    Jeff (President of the K.I.S.S. Club)

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    Senior Member RickP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    A genuine Ford cable rather than one from offshore like you'd get at the parts store (or with the Complete kit---sorry to have to say that FFR) will go a long way towards eliminating that. Just sayin'

    Jeff (President of the K.I.S.S. Club)
    I was just looking at my parts spreadsheet wondering if I had upgraded to the Ford cable. Nope, I suspect I have the cable that was included with the kit. For the cost of the Ford part, might be best to give it a try and see how it goes rather than busting my knuckles.

    Rick (President of my cat, sometimes).

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    #9160 BB767's Avatar
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    IMG_0610.jpg

    This is what my FFR supplied cable looked like after 1200 miles! Car had to be towed home. DO NOT use that cheap POS. Only bad part I received from FFR and I let them know, don't know if they changed suppliers or not. Genuine Ford cable feels 100% better and looks a lot stronger, I do not expect problems with it.
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  18. #17
    Senior Member RickP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB767 View Post
    IMG_0610.jpg

    This is what my FFR supplied cable looked like after 1200 miles! Car had to be towed home. DO NOT use that cheap POS. Only bad part I received from FFR and I let them know, don't know if they changed suppliers or not. Genuine Ford cable feels 100% better and looks a lot stronger, I do not expect problems with it.
    Ooooofa!

  19. #18
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Ford Performance M-7553-C302 Adj. Clutch Cable is the one I've used before and I've seen mentioned multiple times on the forums. Very nice quality piece and recommended. Widely available in the $50-$60 range. Certainly start there if you're running the stock kit cable. You might be happy with the difference.
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  20. #19
    Senior Member RickP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Ford Performance M-7553-C302 Adj. Clutch Cable is the one I've used before and I've seen mentioned multiple times on the forums. Very nice quality piece and recommended. Widely available in the $50-$60 range. Certainly start there if you're running the stock kit cable. You might be happy with the difference.
    Your spot on as usual Paul. I ordered that part last night and it's 55.00 delivered to my front door. If this easy fix resolves the issues I have experienced with the supplied clutch cable, it will be a home run.

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