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Thread: 818R "Glynman Style"

  1. #1
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    818R "Glynman Style"

    #094024
    Was telling someone recently that it was always someone else's car I was helping build and make custom parts for. While not entirely true, I've never built a kit car of my own, though I helped with my brother's show car/drag car, VW powered dune buggy and I've done some mods to my STI. The front bumper facia is my work; modifying a cheap FRP part. Prototyping and custom work was my life before retiring.I used to race in SCCA. Then I did some Solo and autocross. For the last three years I have been doing mostly HPDE; first in an '11 STI and currently in my '08 STI. This was in September at Watkins Glen.
    20130929_WGI_D45_9016_Rev 2.jpg
    I was there at WGI to examine the 818 and see it race.That's when I got the bug.
    I will not buy a donor car. I was building an "Alpha motor" for my STI when I decided to buy an 818R. That motor will now go in the 818R. It can easily produce 450 WHP and spin 8K. I'm not sure where I will start out, horsepower-wise, but I'm thinking 400whp. I may benefit from a smaller turbo. So, bear with me as I try to strike a balance of silly fast and something I think I can handle. It's been a while since I drove a RWD car like the RX-7 R1 I had in 1993. Transitioning from a 8:1 to 5:1 P/W ratio car and going to RWD may be exciting.
    I am not intending to cut many corners on this build. I'm getting an unpainted R so I can modify it at will. Some mods might be a little outside the box for some who are using a donor. I can machine parts, TIG weld, fiberglass, cast parts and paint. I have an engine harness, but I intend to wire everything else from scratch.
    I want to have fun building this and have it be an expression of my taste and style. I may save a buck here and go crazy there. I am still taking in everything involved in the building process. I've been reading, yet I think I have just scratched the surface, so I may have some strange questions and ideas. I didn't finish my education in engineering... but there's been a life of experiential learning.
    I look forward to the input from others here in the forum. I hope to share in the experience.

    818R Build ideas, parts and goals:
    Raised, modified MR2 Shifter
    Race approved fuel cell, or cells, probably mounted on passenger side and behind a firewall.
    Fire suppression system.
    Custom ECU. No ABS. Custom wiring harness. Small 60 amp alternator and low-speed pulley. 4-6 pound Li battery.
    Racepak dash/data-logger
    Sparco Pro 2000 seat
    Quick release steering wheel. Hub TBD. Wheel: OMP Targa
    Exhaust: TBD. I am thinking I will get undermount setup from Full Race and create a spot for the turbo in front of the engine.
    Stoptech BBK (big brake kit) and bias valve. Front brake ductwork Backing plate mod.
    Custom pedal box.
    Custom, aftermarket steering rack
    Fabricate rear diffuser and front splitter. Buy wing. Same or similar to FFR offering.
    Raw frame will get red powdercoat. Thinking red vinyl with white stripes
    Gearbox and LSD:
    Probably dog box 5MT with stiffeners and racing LSD
    Wheels and Tires:
    Am looking in the range of 18x9.5~10, 38-45 ET for the rear and 17x8.25~9, 40-45 ET for the front.
    225~245 front tires and 255~275 rear tires. Hoosier or Goodrich DOT.
    Considering Enkei PF01,RPF1, Volk Racing TE37. I like the looks of the Weds TC-105N. They are light but I haven't priced them and sizes/offsets are limited. I'd like light, strong wheels, preferably with even-spaced spokes. Not over $600 each. Submit suggestion!
    Update: I have since fitted the body and decided to try these for the first round. WDS179TC105N511449TS 17x9 Wedsport TC105N 5x114.3 ET49 Titanium Silver, for the front and WDS1795TC105N511432TS 17x9.5 Wedsport TC105N 5x114.3 ET32 Titanium Silver for the rear.
    Continental DOT3 slicks: 225/45 and 245/45 are fitted.
    Suspension:
    Aluminum STI lower control arms (perhaps '11 + design) and fully adjustable rear suspension.
    Considering MCS and other two-way racing shocks.
    Custom tubular sway bar for front. Rear TBD
    Update: I have made my own LCAs and am using an S2000 spindle. I've saved about six pounds per side, not including brakes.
    Engine (almost everything is here, ready to assemble):
    V-flanged twin-scroll Blouch 1.5 XTR?
    Update: now will start with stock GR STi turbo and plastic manifold.
    Twin side mounted A/A intercoolers
    ARP head studs
    Honey Badger 2.3L 3MI destroker DAVCS engine, Ported W25 heads.
    Dailey dry sump
    Bosch 044 inline pump and inline filter
    Aeromotive 13109 A1000-6 Injected Bypass Regulator.
    Boomba fuel block and rails. 3/8" fuel supply and return line.
    KS Tech MegaMAF (73mm Big MAF CAI) (hybrid Speed Density)
    Ported stock, 60mm throttle body
    Tial Q Vent-To-Atmosphere Blow Off Valve (spring rate unknown)
    Grimmspeed EBCS
    Perrin Crank Pulley
    Custom Ron Davis radiator.
    Small alternator and low-speed pulley on custom mount
    Setrab oil cooler, Mocal thermal bypass valve, Canton Racing 90 Degree Rotating Remote Oil Filter Adapter (or complete bypass of this area), and Canton remote filter block.
    JEGS breather/A/OS tank for engine venting.
    12-'14 postscript: As of August '14 I realized I needed a sensible, purpose-built motor for the car. I'm in the process of building a destroked motor which will be at 2.34 liters and make about 270 WHP for NASA ST-2.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Scargo; 12-16-2016 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Postscript/addendum. Adding dyno graph. Corrected spelling.

  2. #2
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    You're crazy, Glyn!

  3. #3
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeromeS13 View Post
    You're crazy, Glyn!
    Por que no? Why not be crazy? I'm having fun.

  4. #4
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    If I had the budget, I would do the same thing. However, I'm a poor young guy *trying* to stay out of debt... This car completely ruined that effort, though... Haha

  5. #5
    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    This will be a fun thread to watch!
    popcorn.gif

  6. #6
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    2011 STI alu arms would fit?

    Nice project BTW.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 GT3582R one-time dyno target 500whp/wtq+
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Bulid time before being driveable: over 5000h
    Driveable since Sep 27th 2019!

  7. #7
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Yup, certified crazy. I look forward to watching this thread. When is your 818R scheduled to ship?
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  8. #8
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Not sure how the geometry would work out, but I could make them fit! I asked here and have not had a reply. It would require a new rear mount at a minimum.
    I read that it increased caster over the '08 STI. The new, larger flexible joint is quite strong. When Phoenix Racing was road racing Subies (SRRT), they told me they were not going to change out that flex pivot piece for anything solid. As to how it relates to an '07, I don't know yet. Might push the track out if nothing else. If someone could measure an '07 arm I could figure it out.

    Ship schedule: I don't know. Don't know what to say... Secret? Might be before summer?
    Last edited by Scargo; 11-27-2013 at 01:41 PM. Reason: added

  9. #9
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    Guard Transmission? Website only shows Porsche parts/applications.

    No STi hub/bearing/5x114 upgrade? Would seem a natural to allow you to use at least some of your current wheels and get rid of the rather weak wheel bearings in the 5x100 hubs.
    Last edited by Grintch; 11-27-2013 at 01:56 PM.

  10. #10
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grintch View Post
    Guard Transmission? Website only shows Porsche parts/applications.
    I know. It must be a well-guarded secret! They do them. They are supposed to be top-notch and $$.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grintch View Post
    weak wheel bearings in the 5x100 hubs.
    Didn't hear about this one yet.
    I hope nothing to worry about for street driving?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 GT3582R one-time dyno target 500whp/wtq+
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Bulid time before being driveable: over 5000h
    Driveable since Sep 27th 2019!

  12. #12
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    I think not. My friend just switched to 5x114 this year, so he's run the smaller ones for years on the track; and he does a lot of days. My buddies say to replace wheel bearings every year or two when used on the track. I've done 20 + days with the bearings in my '08 and don't hear anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Didn't hear about this one yet.
    I hope nothing to worry about for street driving?
    With the curb weight of the 818, I'm pretty sure the bearings will be fine.

  14. #14
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Doesn't seem to0 crazy... seems manageable. what would be your reasoning to reverse the intake?
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  15. #15
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longislandwrx View Post
    Doesn't seem to0 crazy... seems manageable. what would be your reasoning to reverse the intake?
    To be different? It does seem to be a non-starter other than it might shorten up the length of pipe from the intercooler to the throttle body if I do go ahead with a front-mount turbo.

  16. #16
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    Where do you plan on racing this thing?

  17. #17
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D K View Post
    Where do you plan on racing this thing?
    "THING" will be raced in the NE with NASA. WGI is my fav track so far. I probably won't start out racing it in the normal sense. I'll do some TTs first. I might stop there. I might play in it and then sell it.
    I want to take it (or my STI), to Circuit Mont-Tremblant soon (on my bucket list).
    I'd love to eventually take it to COTA (near my birthplace), but that would be tough. May have to settle for a trip to VIR or Atlanta. One can dream.

  18. #18
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    "THING" will be raced in the NE with NASA. WGI is my fav track so far. I probably won't start out racing it in the normal sense. I'll do some TTs first. I might stop there. I might play in it and then sell it.
    I want to take it (or my STI), to Circuit Mont-Tremblant soon (on my bucket list).
    I'd love to eventually take it to COTA (near my birthplace), but that would be tough. May have to settle for a trip to VIR or Atlanta. One can dream.
    Consider COTA a bucket list item. I just raced it last month (Averaged 8.4 MPG pulling the race trailer from Central CA...$$$$). It was an awesome experience. The facility is amazing.
    Thanks- Chad
    818R-SOLD!!!- Go Karted 7/20/14/ Officially raced NASA ST2- 2/28/15
    2016 Elan NP01 Prototype Racecar Chassis #20
    1969 Porsche 911ST Vintage Race Car
    1972 Porsche 911T (#'s matching undergoing nut & bolt resto in my garage)

  19. #19
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    For the uninitiated, COTA = Circuit Of The Americas?

  20. #20
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xusia View Post
    For the uninitiated, COTA = Circuit Of The Americas?
    Well duh, bubba! Us racers don't even give a second thought to spitting out WGI, LRP NHMP, VIR, NJMP, SP, etc. I know those because I have lived in the NE for 11 years!
    I kinda feel sorry for you. Doesn't seem to be many, if any big name tracks around you. I once thought of moving to the NW...

    I wonder how much I'd have to pay to have my 818 shipped to COTA and back, vs gas and expenses for towing?

  21. #21
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    You will enjoy Tremblant, worth the trip.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    LOL - Don't feel to bad for me. Big names don't make a track great (There are 2 tracks in state, and several others not too far). Plenty of really good roads up here also, which where I do the vast majority of my riding. From a cornering perspective, I live a rich life, BELIEVE ME!

  23. #23
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Xusia, I've already lived a rich life! I now get to drive up and down the Sunshine Coast in BC all summer. Just wished I had a little better car when I'm out there. It's a 2010 Prius. Still, I can drift it and get the alarm bells to go off. No, I didn't say that. No, I never go around curves fast.
    I've had about a dozen bikes. Still miss them, but feel I'm alive because I got off them. I was just about out of cat lives. Snow skiing fast makes up for them in a strange way.

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    What I meant was which class?

    Currently, the 818 is classed in STR3. With your horsepower, your car won't be legal.
    Are you planning to run in unlimited?

    D


    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    "THING" will be raced in the NE with NASA. WGI is my fav track so far. I probably won't start out racing it in the normal sense. I'll do some TTs first. I might stop there. I might play in it and then sell it.
    I want to take it (or my STI), to Circuit Mont-Tremblant soon (on my bucket list).
    I'd love to eventually take it to COTA (near my birthplace), but that would be tough. May have to settle for a trip to VIR or Atlanta. One can dream.

  25. #25
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    As I said, I will not start out racing right away and I may not do W2W again. If I do, I think I will want to be up in STR1. Just guessing at this point. I'm not sure how much of a RWD car I can handle, to be frank. What I've done to date is turn 2nd place level TT2 times at WGI in my STI. Looks like John George did a TT1 record of 02:01.1 at WGI, in the Factory Five car. I think I will be looking at TTs to begin with. I think I will have multiple tunes when I head out to the track. I don't know if I will ever crank this motor up to what it's capable of and am wondering if I would be better served with a BW EFR 7670.

  26. #26
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Feel like I'm waiting on Godot... Not much to report except I'm going dry sump. Which means I will switch over the Killer Bee stuff to the STI and I will have a Moroso oil pan for sale.

    I will see a Miller 200DX arrive before Christmas. That will be fun and exciting. I can do stuff to the STI and work on pieces for the 818, like finish the NA intake so it accepts late model fuel rails and injectors.

  27. #27
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Borg Warner matchbot predictions

    Not much to report. I have been studying the NASA class options and figure I can make up to 417 WHP and still be in ST1.
    I've been looking at whether or not to run the Borg Warner EFR 8374 turbo I have or something smaller to get the low-end grunt. Using BW's matchbot I came up with some interesting numbers.
    Engine speed RPM 3500 4000 5000 6000 7000 8000
    Engine Power Hp 380~421 430~470 469 469 470 469
    Engine Torque lb-ft 570~632 560~617 493 411 352 308
    Looks to me it is still the best paired, twin-scroll turbo for what I'm trying to do. At 5,250 it's maxed out at 470 each which equates to about 413WHP and 470 FPT. I will run 100 octane gas. It's at 28 PSI below 4,600 RPMs (but otherwise runs 12-26 PSI). What I found astounding is that at 2,600 RPM it will have more torque than a 2013, Stage 2 motor. The ranges are what I think a minimum~maximum would be based on efficiency variables.

    I also got a neat little alternator that only weights seven pounds.

  28. #28
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    I'm intrigued by this.

    Are these torque numbers for a gasoline or a diesel engine? If gasoline, it would be interesting to know how they get the torque so high.

    With the R version, did Factory five give any limits on horsepower the frame is designed to support?

  29. #29
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Matchbot data for Borg Warner EFR8374

    Here is the Matchbot link. See for yourself. I will say that this projection may be optimistic for efficiencies, however it seems doable and only requires 28 PSI boost for the low end of the RPM range (if you choose to put your foot in it and use it). It also requires the use of fire power with 100 octane gas because of that high PSI low-end boost. That necessity for more than 93 octane ends just below 5,000 RPM, when boost drops below 23 PSI. That gives me over 3,000 RPM to operate in that are maxed out at the limit of legal WHP for ST1.
    The compressor and turbine efficiencies are excellent with this turbo combination of a compressor that can deliver 79 pounds per minute and a .92 turbine A/R.

    I have not discussed this with my tuner, but it may be that I can have more torque/power available than the car can use at those lower RPMs. I will seldom be racing in that RPM range anyway unless I were to lose a gear. Still, I don't mind mixing in a little Torco for the bottom end.
    This is new territory for me. I welcome any insight that anyone has.

    As to power limits of the chassis, all I know is that the driver, John George , said he thought it needed some more power. I think they were at 370 something WHP at WGI. I can get up near 420 and (using ballast), still be legal. Direct answer: I don't know. I will be adding some gusseting.
    Last edited by Scargo; 01-18-2014 at 08:41 PM.

  30. #30
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    Does the boost from this turbo really peak at low RPM and drop off when you get over 4000 RPM? I'm used to seeing boost climb with RPM increase.

  31. #31
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    It's all in the use of the wastegate. Initially, I am maxing out boost for 100 octane gas and then cutting back boost after about 4,700 RPM to keep the motor at 418 wheel horsepower. I'm doing this strictly to stay in NASA's ST1's P/W ratio of 5.5:1.
    This turbo is huge. It's capable of 79 lbs/min. It can make over 700 HP! Though I am going dry sump, and there should be some good efficiences from that, I am not building the engine for handling sustained 28 PSI and it would be insane to do so. I could be making 565 at the wheels however, on the same gas. Again, nobody can make a stock-block motor and drivetrain components stay together very long doing that, and I would be in unlimited class.

    Having said that, I built my STI's current motor based on a new Subaru short block that I put CP pistons in. I lightly ported the heads then had a pro racing valve job topped off with Manley springs and Ti retainers. I did port matching throughout and run Full Race headers. This was tuned at EFI to make 395WHP/393TQ on 100 octane gas (Torco added) @ 24.5 PSI. This is my STI's track tune. That's what it was dyno'd for, but when I took it to the track something happened which allowed the boost to momentarily spike to 28. I'm assuming it is a wastegate controller issue. I never dealt with it. The car has been a screamer. It has done a 2:09 at WGI on a mediocre suspension and brakes. I've since fixed the weaknesses and added aero.
    Since that engine seems perfectly fine after a pretty hard season I am inclined to go with what I have theorized as a boost profile on the Matchbot for the 818 engine, until my tuner shakes his head and tells me I'm crazy.

  32. #32
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    OS Giken racing differentials will arrive next week. Two for the STi and one for the 818. They are all getting special tuning.
    Five weeks till I pick up my kit!

  33. #33
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Impulse purchase today. Picked up tranny as planned. This is for the STI. It will become a close-ratio six-speed with the OS Giken diff. Now I have the one in the car I can sell. I hear it is very desirable for drag racers because it's so tall by fourth.
    When I asked if seller had anything else he had rear STi 5x114 drivetrain parts I wanted for the 818. Score! Now I have uprights, hubs and Brembo rotors.
    Uh, ... why is it the STi stuff will not fit the 818?

  34. #34
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    I love how you ask that AFTER you buy them!! LOL
    Have you seen the 818 Registry on Google Maps?? https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=...a=0&dg=feature

    Want your 818 added to the Registry? https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1zmF...rNCY4/viewform

  35. #35
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    As I recall, the Sti, besides being 5 X 114, is too wide to fit the shocks or some-such nonsense. I am not using the Konis. Is it the splines? I'm building a race car here. I can do anything!

  36. #36
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    I have no idea about the hub itself (does it mount the same as a WRX?), but I'm pretty sure you are talking custom axles (different spline count vs. WRX if I recall, so the FFR axles won't work).
    Have you seen the 818 Registry on Google Maps?? https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=...a=0&dg=feature

    Want your 818 added to the Registry? https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1zmF...rNCY4/viewform

  37. #37
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    About to take delivery of a lift!

  38. #38
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    About to take delivery of a lift!
    I would ask for a different car
    Tony Nadalin
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    818R Build in progress

  39. #39
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Too good a deal! Couldn't find (a good pic) one without the car... Perhaps I should Photoshop it and repost?

  40. #40
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    1,590
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    094024 now in Snail Racing's garage.
    I have to finish the STi and get it back on the track before I can focus on the 818R.

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