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Thread: Toledo Area Newbie - potential Cobra builder

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    Toledo Area Newbie - potential Cobra builder

    Hello from the Toledo area. I have been considering building a roadster or 818 for a while. I just recently got a little bit more motivated and have started scouring this forum for ideas and tips. I know someone nearby who is working on a build presently. Haven’t made it over to check in on them yet but I will be. I’d also be interested in stopping out to see anyone else who currently has a build in-progress in the Toledo area. I’m going to have to start getting out to some cars and coffee type events in the spring for more ideas. That said, I am looking for advice regarding my potential build. Bottom line is that I’m looking to have a car that is enjoyable to take on longer drives.

    Question 1: I want a suspension that will not jar me (or my wife) with every crack or stone in the road. I’m not quite sure how to get a feel for that (no pun intended) and since this is some of the first parts that will go on the car, I can't even think about getting started until I have the answer. For example, I was really excited a few years back when the Focus RS was announced, but after seeing videos and reviews of test drives, there was no way I wanted to have that car as a daily driver. A Cobra is definitely not going to be a daily driver but again, don’t want to punish myself. I’m hitting middle-age and my back isn’t what it used to be. Thoughts or advice?

    Question 2: This means I will want it to have gearing that is more fuel efficient at interstate speeds. I like the coyote/T56 option that I have seen in this forum but I am also partial to having a 427 motor (I kinda miss my old ‘69 Mustang 428 cobrajet). Any ideas along those lines for something that would fit with a 6-speed or is that just not possible due to the overall length? I realize that ultimately the rear-end can scale to any engine/tranny configuration.

    Question 3: I’m concerned that the Factory Five glass packs are going to be a bit overwhelming after an hour at 70 mph. Can anyone comment on the noise level at 1800-2000 rpm? The Boig Quietpipes look like a possibility. There was a video posted that gave a general idea of noise level. I'm afraid that they take away too much of the "fun sound". What other options are out there? Anything in between?

    Finally: Any tips for using this forum? I haven’t figured out how to search the forum effectively. Most of what I have found seems more like dumb luck.

    Thanks for any feedback.

    Tom

  2. #2
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Welcome! Pretty sure I know which build in Toledo you're talking about. For sure get over there and check it out. You're also welcome to make the couple hour ride this direction. Completed Roadster and Coupe build in the garage. I'm expecting you know this already, but the London Cobra Show in June (https://www.londoncobrashow.com/) literally just down the road from you is a great place to check out lots of builds, talk to owners, get rides, etc. For your questions:

    1. The best ride is the IRS setup. I've had both solid axle and IRS. The IRS is more compliant and more comfortable. Adds some cost, but if ride quality is a major concern look no further. Also helps with a T56. See next answer.

    2. Because of the already short driveshaft and the length of the T56, it's generally recommended only for the IRS setup. A moving solid axle would result in too high of angles on the driveshaft. A Coyote is an inch or so shorter than the typical pushrod motor, so that helps too. But still recommend IRS with that trans. What 427 are you talking about? An actual big block, or a punched out 351 small block? To be honest, most of us don't sweat fuel efficiency too much with these cars. First because from a mileage standpoint they just don't get driven as much as a daily driver. Plus it is, after all, a performance/race car. A Coyote gives surprisingly good efficiency but if that doesn't fit your build goal then highly recommend still going EFI with your old school engine. A carb'd big block likely won't get out of single number MPG's, FWIW. Even a carb'd small block, if not tuned well, won't do great.

    3. The stock pipes are loud, no question. And they don't get any quieter with age. Many of us use the Gas-N Performance pipes. (https://www.gas-n.com/collections/si...teel-sidepipes). Super high quality and while not a lot quieter from a pure DB standpoint, are much mellower and also point down a bit which helps. I always recommend ear plugs no matter what for road noise, wind, etc. With ear plugs the Gas-N's are very easy to live with. If you want to go quieter, there are certainly other options like Boig. Guys have also fabricated their own with different components.

    For searching the forum, use Google. Works great. From Google, type "site www.thefactoryfiveforum.com / search term" (without the quotes and what you want to search for). You'll get a nice list with links.
    Last edited by edwardb; 01-02-2019 at 12:39 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

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    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    Welcome Tom! I'm in Vermilion and will be picking up my MK4 kit in the next couple weeks. This will be my third build, I have a 33 Hot Rod now and building another MK4. Like Paul stated the pipes are loud and I'm going with Gas-N also.
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

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    Hi Edwardb,

    Thanks for all of the input. IRS seems pretty popular. Good to know. As far as the engine goes, you're right...I inappropriately put fuel efficiency when I'm really just wanting lower rpm for a quieter ride. Although, surprisingly, I got about 13mpg in the old '69 Mustang 428. I was impressed. I haven't gotten far enough to decide between true big block or a bored out small block. I have to take some time and do research there regarding what's available and what transmissions will go with them. If I go old school, I am leaning carb'd. Something about the sound...and the smell. Ha ha. The London Show is probably key to this whole process. I have a lot more research to do.

    Thanks,
    Tom

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    CVOBill,

    Thanks for the invite. I make quite a few trips between Toledo and Cleveland. I will keep you in mind.

    Thanks,
    Tom

  7. #6
    Senior Member KDubU's Avatar
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    Hey Tom, welcome to the forum and a great community. I will respond to your questions from my perspective based on the roadster I built.

    1) I had the 3 link and found it very comfortable to drive and the bumps were not that noticeable unless of course one is running the I495 around Boston where they have done stupid things with every bridge/overpass and can’t make it a smooth transition. Hitting those at 75mph is a bit hair raising but all other driving was very comfortable. Remeber these are not meant to be modern comfy daily drivers.

    2) I have a 351w carb’ed and on my longest trips to the Open House which is all highway and about 3hrs each way, I got 20 mpg which really surprised me and made me happy. So You can have the old school look and decent mileage on the highway. Around town it will not be as good but these cars are not driven enough to really sweat this.

    3) I was too very concerned about the pipes that come from FF and opted for the Gas-N’s which are really nice looking and don’t bark like the FF ones. They have a deep sound and never bothered me at all. The wind noise at highway speeds is more concerning.
    Kyle

    Complete Kit pickup 09/05/2015, 351w, QF680, 3.55, 3-Link, 15" Halibrands with MT's, Painted Viking blue with Wimbledon white stripes on 03/15/2017. Sold in 08/2018 and totally regret it.

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    Hey Kyle, Thanks! I'll stay away from I495 LOL. The wind wings help much with the noise at highway speeds?

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    Senior Member gtaroger's Avatar
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    You have already received some good advice.I found that EFI on a well built 5.0 with a T5 and a 3.27 gear gave me what I was looking for in performance and still got in the low 20's at 70 mph on the expressway.I have the four link in my car. With the Koni's I found the ride to be firm but livable. If you plan on doing any drag racing the four link is the strongest.If not the IRS is the way to go.Roger

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    Senior Member KDubU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsize View Post
    Hey Kyle, Thanks! I'll stay away from I495 LOL. The wind wings help much with the noise at highway speeds?
    Tom, yes they help somewhat but nothing will prevent it. It’s not bad unless you are on a long trip on an interstate. Driving around town and short trips are no bother at all.
    Kyle

    Complete Kit pickup 09/05/2015, 351w, QF680, 3.55, 3-Link, 15" Halibrands with MT's, Painted Viking blue with Wimbledon white stripes on 03/15/2017. Sold in 08/2018 and totally regret it.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsize View Post
    Hello from the Toledo area. I have been considering building a roadster or 818 for a while. I just recently got a little bit more motivated and have started scouring this forum for ideas and tips. I know someone nearby who is working on a build presently. Haven’t made it over to check in on them yet but I will be. I’d also be interested in stopping out to see anyone else who currently has a build in-progress in the Toledo area. I’m going to have to start getting out to some cars and coffee type events in the spring for more ideas. That said, I am looking for advice regarding my potential build. Bottom line is that I’m looking to have a car that is enjoyable to take on longer drives.

    Question 1: I want a suspension that will not jar me (or my wife) with every crack or stone in the road. I’m not quite sure how to get a feel for that (no pun intended) and since this is some of the first parts that will go on the car, I can't even think about getting started until I have the answer. For example, I was really excited a few years back when the Focus RS was announced, but after seeing videos and reviews of test drives, there was no way I wanted to have that car as a daily driver. A Cobra is definitely not going to be a daily driver but again, don’t want to punish myself. I’m hitting middle-age and my back isn’t what it used to be. Thoughts or advice?

    Question 2: This means I will want it to have gearing that is more fuel efficient at interstate speeds. I like the coyote/T56 option that I have seen in this forum but I am also partial to having a 427 motor (I kinda miss my old ‘69 Mustang 428 cobrajet). Any ideas along those lines for something that would fit with a 6-speed or is that just not possible due to the overall length? I realize that ultimately the rear-end can scale to any engine/tranny configuration.

    Question 3: I’m concerned that the Factory Five glass packs are going to be a bit overwhelming after an hour at 70 mph. Can anyone comment on the noise level at 1800-2000 rpm? The Boig Quietpipes look like a possibility. There was a video posted that gave a general idea of noise level. I'm afraid that they take away too much of the "fun sound". What other options are out there? Anything in between?

    Finally: Any tips for using this forum? I haven’t figured out how to search the forum effectively. Most of what I have found seems more like dumb luck.

    Thanks for any feedback.

    Tom
    Hey Tom, I go to Toledo for work might have to look u up one day here's my 2 cents worth:

    1) IRS absolutely, I have 17" wheels with the IRS and the ride is suprisingly good even around my are which is Philly the roads here are as bad as Ohio's
    2) Look into a 347 stroker, more compact, lighter, better space between the footboxes. The car will handle and ride better and that 347 will make more power that your 428cj ever made. Also, you can use a T5 transmission with it. This is the setup I have and I turn 2100rpm at 70mph with a 3.73 rear
    3) The car is loud! at full throttle honestly at highway speed wind noise is the biggest issue

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    Thanks, Roger. I suppose it is possible with both Norwalk, OH and Milian, MI being so close to me but I will probably never drag race the car, so no issue there.

  13. #12
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    edwardb,

    I was reading through your #7750 build. Was wondering how you liked the Lizard Skin. Did you also do a build without for comparison purposes? I watched a couple of you tube videos for reference. Always good to have perspective on a relevant project.

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    caesarmascetti,

    absolutely, look me up. I may be showing some ignorance here but main benefits to the extra room around the footbox? Not as much heat transferred to the passenger cabin, more room to work, anything else?

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsize View Post
    caesarmascetti,

    absolutely, look me up. I may be showing some ignorance here but main benefits to the extra room around the footbox? Not as much heat transferred to the passenger cabin, more room to work, anything else?

    Thanks!
    those are two major things easier to get at the rear plugs, also the engine is about 75 lbs or so lighter for better weight distribution etc vs a 351 that has been stroked to 427. I have a fellow FFR guy that lives nearby and has a 427 in his still in the cart phase and there really is a noticeable difference in how much room the engine takes up the headers are also much much closer to the foot-box especially on the drivers side. . The other thing to consider here is a 347 will easily give you 400hp or more this is in a car that weighs about 2,200lbs.

    I would ask around but quite a few people that work on these cars and build them will tell you that a 347 is probably the sweet spot as far as a traditional power-plant for these cars, they give the best combination of power, weight and handling.

  16. #15
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsize View Post
    edwardb,

    I was reading through your #7750 build. Was wondering how you liked the Lizard Skin. Did you also do a build without for comparison purposes? I watched a couple of you tube videos for reference. Always good to have perspective on a relevant project.
    I like Lizard Skin a lot. I've never had a heat issue with any build, and as far as possible the sound aspect seems good to. Hard to say how much sound control affects an open top car with side pipes. But definitely gives an overall solid feel to the panels which I believe contributes to the solid feel of the car. I also really like how Lizard Skin seals everything up. It won't bridge wide gaps. But does seal everything really well. I've used Lizard Skin now on four builds. So I'm pretty familiar and comfortable with it. For my Coupe build, I did end up using some of the stick on stuff in the foot boxes. There was just too much going on IMO to do a decent spray job plus the work to mask. That was my first experience going that way. I think the work involved is about the same, just different. Lizard Skin you spend hours masking and couple hours at most spraying. Stick on you spend a similar amount of time fitting and sticking. I'm like most guys. I tend to go back to what I've done before and am comfortable with. I'll bet those that have only worked with Dynamat (or whatever) would have a similar tendency to use that again.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  17. #16
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    Mr. King,
    You know where I live and the door is always open. Heck, I can even put you and your son to work in the coming weeks.

    Scott

  18. #17
    BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Welcome... I'm a little late to the party but want to throw out support for the 347ci small block... That's what I went with from BluePrint Engines. I actually purchased the complete engine/trans combination. Showed up at the house with dyno sheet and fully ready to plug and play... 417hp/427ftlb torque. It is a beast. At 60 with my 3:31 rear end and the TKO600 I turn right at 2000 rpm. On a recent trip, about 17mpg and that included some very spirited starts from stop if you know what I mean. The FFR side pipes are loud and I guess have a sharp sound that is great, but loud and hard on the ears. At 55-100mph your main sound issue is wind noise. The engine sound is there, but it is the buffeting wind that is loudest. The Wind wings make a huge difference in the amount of wind in your face. You actually get more wind coming from behind then from the front with the wind wings in place. I have the IRS and find the ride very comfortable. I've taken 4/5 200 mile drives and have been very comfortable. The ride is firm as Paul said, but unless you are hitting pot holes or hard road level changes, the ride is just fine. I hope this helps... feel free to reach out to me anytime. I will be running the 2019 Hot Rod Power Tour and will be in Norwalk, OH on June 14th if this is of any help to see a build completed except for paint.

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 (#8 of 20) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    Build Thread Click Here / Registry Entry Click Here / BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
    Carb/Heater/Heated Seats/Cruise Control/Drop Trunk & Battery/Custom Cubby

  19. #18
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    Welcome Tom, I'm also in Vermilion, have a finished 289 FF with a 289, toploader, and old style IRS. The ride is surprisingly nice. I'm just a few miles from CVO Bill, you're welcome anytime.

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