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Thread: Major Setback!

  1. #1

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    Major Setback!

    I have a setback in my build. I've been doing some last minute things as I'm ready to send my car to paint when I saw a bead of fluid under the bell housing. Stepped on the clutch pedal and noticed the reservoir was draining fluid each time my son stepped on the clutch. Turns out the braided steel bleed line from my hydraulic throwout bearing rubbed against the rotating clutch causing the bleed line to fail. I was so conscientious about this when I initially installed the unit but after bleeding the clutch a few times I totally neglected to check to make sure that it didn't rub. I have about 40 go-kart miles on the car and the body is still off. My plan is to purchase a new throwout bearing, remove the engine and tranny and replace the bearing. I think removing the engine/tranny may be easier than disconnecting the transmission since the body will not be on and since I do not have a car lift.

    The process for my paint guy is to send him the entire car where he sets gaps, for hood, trunk, doors, and other body fitment things. This will happen in the next few days. Then in a few weeks I could pick up the rolling chassis as he prepares the body for paint. When I pick up the rolling chassis go-kart is when I plan to replace the bearing. if I could get the bearing replaced (and carpet install) during this period of body painting, there shouldn't be a time delay in my schedule to get this car registered through CA DMV.

    My question is can I re-use the bolts for the drive shaft, engine mounts, and transmission/bellhousing?

    Everything else on the car seems pretty solid.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    All of those bolts can be reused... none of them are stretch/torque to yield type. Tag-n-bag, rip-n-tear into it.
    John D. - Minneapolis 'Burbs

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    Why? Everything is new. Except that the line needs to be replaced. Why not just replace the line?


    Why I first put my Exocet together, I forgot to put the crush washer on the end of the pressure hose. I cut apart a socket and made a tool to R&R the hose without taking everything apart. Once the tool was made, it was a 10 minute job.
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  4. #4
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    Just FYI and something to consider...

    I started with an internal hydraulic HTB and after having to pull the tranny to do the first clutch adjustment I switched to Fortes hydraulic setup, which uses an external slave and a conventional fork.



    PS, Yes, none of those bolts are single use, like axle nuts. Apply blue/red nut stuff as needed. (You know what I mean -- what's it called?)


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  5. #5
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    I started with an internal hydraulic HTB and after having to pull the tranny to do the first clutch adjustment...
    Was that the only reason you took it all apart? To adjust the throw-out bearing? Nothing else failed? Maybe something's changed. The Tilton HRB (what the OP here pictures plus what I just installed in my Coupe build) is advertised as self-adjusting. Same idea as disk brakes. The piston only retracts far enough to release pressure. As the clutch wears, it adjusts accordingly. In theory should only need to come apart if something fails. Hopefully no less frequently than a clutch replacement which is a teardown anyway. 🤞

    To the OP, agree with Bob's comment. Can't that HRB be repaired? I don't see hoses listed in their catalog as a service item. But I bet if you called them something could be worked out. Since it comes apart to replace the piston, seals, etc. seems it would be easy enough the swap in a new hose.
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  6. #6

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Stuff Happens & We Know You'll Bounce Back From This One Quickly!

    Hang In There V!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cowan View Post
    Why? Everything is new. Except that the line needs to be replaced. Why not just replace the line?
    Unfortunately, this particular bearing does not have a fitting that a hose attaches to. The hose elbows directly out of the bearing to an AN fitting on the other end. Ill call Tilton but i think i will have to disconnect the tranny in order to access the bearing. If that is the case ill replace the whole bearing assembly rather than try to repair it.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    Stuff Happens & We Know You'll Bounce Back From This One Quickly!

    Hang In There V!

    Yes indeed. Just move forward. Thanks

  9. #9

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    Thanks guys on the info on being able to re-use the bolts

  10. #10
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vspeeds View Post
    Unfortunately, this particular bearing does not have a fitting that a hose attaches to. The hose elbows directly out of the bearing to an AN fitting on the other end. Ill call Tilton but i think i will have to disconnect the tranny in order to access the bearing. If that is the case ill replace the whole bearing assembly rather than try to repair it.
    Understand and agree the Tilton HRB has to be removed in order to repair/replace. Sorry I wasn't more clear. Also understand and agree those hoses are in a kind of swivel mount and aren't intended to be removed. My only point was whether the damaged hose could be replaced via a teardown, same as servicing the piston, seals, etc., which also would require a teardown. At $350 for a brand new assembly, worth asking IMO.

    Side comment. When I installed mine I initially took the hoses through the same opening as the clutch arm would normally go. It's big and wide and has plenty of room. But in addition to being pointed down quite a bit in my case with a T-56 style bell housing (yours might be different) I also noticed the hoses could move quite a bit and potentially interfere with something including the spinning clutch. Much like yours did unfortunately. I ended up taking the hoses through a small opening between the bell housing and the transmission above the clutch arm opening. Was a more direct route plus keep them well away from everything. Don't know if that applies to your combination of parts, but throwing it out there. Cropped this picture from my engine installation sequence where the hoses are visible. FWIW.

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  11. #11


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    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    When another builder recently had issues with the hydraulic throw out bearing while still in the build stage I asked the question but didn't get an answer; why this rather than a conventional lever activated TOB? I'm not well versed on them so am curious to know what advantage does it provide or what problem does it solve?

    Jeff

  12. #12
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    When another builder recently had issues with the hydraulic throw out bearing while still in the build stage I asked the question but didn't get an answer; why this rather than a conventional lever activated TOB? I'm not well versed on them so am curious to know what advantage does it provide or what problem does it solve?

    Jeff
    Hey Jeff. Certainly don't have all the answers (no comments...) but these are my thoughts for trying one in my Gen 3 Coupe build, in no particular order. (1) I have found I like the hydraulic clutch setup vs. cable after building both. The cable setup, if done properly with the right cable (e.g. Ford OE) works well. But I found the hydraulic approach slightly less effort and eliminated routing issues with the cable through the engine compartment. Plus I'm not a huge fan of the mod to the Wilwood pedal box for the cable, even though the latest version seems to work OK. (2) The usual hydraulic solution is the kit from Forte. But IMO it's expensive for what it is. Again, my opinion. The several hydraulic release bearings out there are cheaper. (3) The hydraulic release bearing is super easy to set up compared to the clutch arm version and is supposed to be self-adjusting. Much like disk brakes as I mentioned earlier. That would seem a good advantage. (4) Most OE's using manual shift are now using a hydraulic release bearing. I know it's all about cost, and they're simpler and no doubt cheaper. But they also do a lot of durability and mileage testing, so they would seem to have merit. (5) With fewer moving parts and potential friction points, seems effort should be reduced. Based on my very limited testing of the Tilton piece in my Coupe build, compared to the Forte setup in the Roadster sitting next to it, I'd say the effort is less. Not night and day, but less. We'll see once it's on the road and the clutch is broken in. But so far, seems promising. (6) And the last reason (finally) is that when I received the Coupe kit, realized it wouldn't be all that difficult to drop the trans out of the bottom without removing the engine. The different frame, compared to the Roadster, is significant in this regard. One of the big reasons people cited for not using the hydraulic release bearing was in case of failure, the engine/trans had to be pulled. Same as if a mechanical TOB failed, or a clutch replacement. But still seen as an additional risk. While some have pulled Roadster transmissions without also the engine, most agree it's a real pain. Doesn't look so bad for the Coupe. Plus I have a lift. Not wishing I'll ever have to take that step. But decided it was worth the risk so went for it. Plus, to be honest, I enjoy researching and trying new things. Some successful. Some not so much. We'll see what happens with this one. If you want, I can give you the long answer.
    Last edited by edwardb; 01-21-2019 at 10:06 AM.
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  14. #13

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    Many of EdwardB's comments are basically why I chose the hydraulic throwout bearing. I new if I had to adjust or replace the bearing meant that I would have to remove the engine/trans. I took a gamble and now I am paying for it. While go-karting, and before this leak,I really liked this setup. This issue is totally my fault and i'm not regretting choosing the hydraulic bearing.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Understand and agree the Tilton HRB has to be removed in order to repair/replace. Sorry I wasn't more clear. Also understand and agree those hoses are in a kind of swivel mount and aren't intended to be removed. My only point was whether the damaged hose could be replaced via a teardown, same as servicing the piston, seals, etc., which also would require a teardown. At $350 for a brand new assembly, worth asking IMO.

    Side comment. When I installed mine I initially took the hoses through the same opening as the clutch arm would normally go. It's big and wide and has plenty of room. But in addition to being pointed down quite a bit in my case with a T-56 style bell housing (yours might be different) I also noticed the hoses could move quite a bit and potentially interfere with something including the spinning clutch. Much like yours did unfortunately. I ended up taking the hoses through a small opening between the bell housing and the transmission above the clutch arm opening. Was a more direct route plus keep them well away from everything. Don't know if that applies to your combination of parts, but throwing it out there. Cropped this picture from my engine installation sequence where the hoses are visible. FWIW.

    EdwardB
    the reason I'm not really looking into the repair is simply because of "time." I already started the CA registration process which in itself is a "process". I have a short window when I get the rolling chassis back from the body/paint shop to install the carpet and everything else. Now I'm going to have to pull the engine to replace the bearing during that time. So instead of repairing the part which may have unforeseen issues, just replacing the part would be faster. Then after the installation of carpet, dashboard, and new bearing, the car goes back to the shop to have the painted body, doors, hood, trunk placed. This time constraint is In order to keep my appointment to CA CHP to have a VIN # assigned (in my county there is a 3 month wait list for appointments). After the CHP visit I have to go back to DMV to get an SB-100 number assigned(Senate Bill- smog exemption). Then after a few weeks when I get the SB-100 paperwork in the mail,I could make an appointment for the Referee. So the first CHP appointment I'd like to keep or my registration process could be delayed for months. If there was no time constraint, I would definitely look into rebuilding the bearing.

    I don't think I have the small openings that you do for the hose. Just have the one big opening through the bell housing. I just have to make certain that I properly secure the bleed hose and make sure it does not come loose and interfere with the rotating clutch. In my case, after bleeding the unit several times, I just neglected to take up the slack and properly secure the hose.

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    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    I share Jeff’s thoughts/concerns and don’t have any experience with them. Been following everyone’s experience installing/using HTB...

    Paul, thanks for the overall analysis and logic for your install. I’m leaning toward a Gen3 coupe for my next project and didn’t realize it had easier tranny access. I’m trying to get past my “hate shivers” for imbedding the Tilton unit...

    Looking forward to the long term useage comments.

    Chris
    Last edited by cgundermann; 01-22-2019 at 07:45 AM.
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