Massachusetts 818C build

[sgarrett]

I took apart the rear end to get the transmission off of the engine. I was definitely annoyed and wished I didn't have to do it, and was hoping I would find something obvious to fix.

Fortunately, it was obvious....here is the next attempted start....

[sgarrett]

...and now I need to share what was wrong. I contemplated deleting my account and never coming back here again because I am quite embarrassed by the issue. But I figured I needed to share....that is the first step in recovery maybe?

There is a metal cover that covers the gap between the bottom of the engine and the bottom of the transmission. Subaru calls it a 'cover complete-clutch housing'. You attach it AFTER you put the engine and transmission together. It is essentially just a dust/debris shield.

When I got my donor, the engine and transmission had already been removed and separated, but the cover was never removed from the engine. By the time I got the engine home, moved it around the garage, stored it in a tire for a while, muscled it into the car, and then pushed the transmission onto it, that cover had been rolled over and pushed up into the engine. Not knowing any better, I thought that it was supposed to be up in there. Nope. It definitely is NOT supposed to be up in there. Here is what mine looked like after I took off the transmission.

Clutch cover hitting clutch.jpg

You can see where the shield is hitting the clutch and the teeth on the flywheel. That part pushing up vertically into the clutch in the red circle is supposed to be horizontal and sit completely below the engine. Well done Mr. Mechanical Engineer!

So the good news is that it was an easy fix. The bad news is that it was pretty bone-headed of me to do that. I wonder what else I have done like that! I am sure I will find out at some point down the road.

Onwards....

[Frank818]

That is exactly the type of mistakes I made couple of times!!!! And is exactly the same situation about my valve cover and that gasket washer stuck around the stud. Thought it was "supposed to be like that".

Happy it was an easy fix!

BTW how do you get the engine to crank that fast? Man I'm far from there.

[sgarrett]

[QUOTE=BTW how do you get the engine to crank that fast? Man I'm far from there.[/QUOTE]

Because I am just using the little engine that came out of my donor....I am not as ambitious as you are!

Hope to be driving up and down my long driveway this weekend.

[Frank818]

You got a point!

I hope you can provide us with a nice video of your ride.


Oh BTW, are your fuses easily accessible?

[sgarrett]

Oh yes....the fuses are accessible.

Fuse panel.jpg

They were originally facing up and I thought I would just pull the dash to change them...but then I thought better of it so I turned them 90 degrees. I plan on having the area in front of them open. The side wall for the center console is just going to come up to the bottom of them.

The other fuse box is in the front of the car near the battery, just like it was in the donor car. Super easy to get to.

[sgarrett]

Haven't had any chance to work on the car lately, but here is the video I shot of me driving it up the driveway. Nothing spectacular, but it did remind me of the first time my dad and I drove the Vette we built. The only fiberglass on it was the rear quarter panels and rear deck along with the floor. No doors, front fenders, hood, roof, etc....

We drove it to the gas station and then around the extended neighborhood. About 5 miles. Every time we shifted we slid around in our seats because we hadn't actually tightened the floor to the frame all the way. A guy in a camaro asked us if we wanted to race. That was in Wyoming in 1983. We probably even had policemen wave at us and give us a thumbs up. I wonder what would happen to me if I got caught driving this around the neighborhood here in Massachusetts now? It wouldn't be pretty.



I want to have someone film me driving by but that will have to wait.

[Frank818]

It's always very special to drive the car without any body panels on! I didn't hear any weird major noises.

I remember years ago Metalmaker drove his around quite far but he didn't get caught so nothing happened. Or maybe he did and never told us. lolll

[sgarrett]

Yeah....there are no weird noises. But I haven't done a good enough job yet securing all the misc cables in the back. So every once in a while one clanks against the axle or part of the suspension. Working on cleaning up that stuff now and the aluminum around the front wheel wells, but really slow/no progress now and for the immediate future.

[sgarrett]

I had my son take a video of me driving the car down the driveway....now the go karting feels official.



He also drove it up and down the driveway a couple of times. First time driving a manual transmission. Can apply for his learner's permit the end of this month. We'll be hard pressed to have the car ready for his driver's test....but he is hopeful.

[aquillen]

If you do (I hope) have it for the driver's test, by all means get a vid of the tester person getting in and out. Want to see their face when they get back...

[lsfourwheeler]

Your son might be the first person to use an 818 to take their driving test lol

[sgarrett]

As happens to most of us, work on the 818 came to a screeching halt over the past few months. Very busy fall limited time available for the 818. But I did make a little progress!

I got tired of finding tiny little dribbles of coolant on the floor under each of the clamps. I just can't seem to get the clamps with the worm gears tight enough. If I go too tight they skip a tooth. The coolant isn't pouring out, but it is enough to really bug me. I must not have gotten the adapters into place correctly because it seems like they work for others! I decided to change them out to the t-bolt type clamps.

t-bolt clamps.jpg

I've gotten all of them switched out now, run the engine a few times, and have no new dribbles on the floor. Keeping my fingers crossed.

I also decided to adapt the HVAC fan to fit into the nose area. Even though I won't have heat or AC, i do like the idea of being able to blow in a little fresh air when driving. I did this on my vette and it helps on hot summer days (not like a hot summer day in Arizona of course!). Unfortunately I had already removed the wires for it from the harness so I needed to put them all back in. I also modified the fan switch so that I could mount just the fan speed dial on my dash. I haven't finished the brackets yet for the fan, but I did finish up the wires and center console.

center console.jpg

I even used my 3D printer to make a little change cup to fit into the center console.

I also have started putting in some of the aluminum around the front wheels. Once I get that done, mount the fan, and finish cleaning up the loose wires and cables around the fan belt then I get to start on the body panels!

[sgarrett]

Made a big push this week to get stuff done. I really wanted to be able to start on the body by 2/1 (originally it was 9/1/19, then 12/1/19, then 1/1/20.....). I made it! I was able to check off everything that was on my punch list, so on to the body.

Great advice to get the front splash guards drilled and positioned early in the build. Definitely wish I had done it sooner but it wasn't too bad.

Front wheel well aluminum.jpg

I also spent some time cleaning up the various wires and cables between the rear firewall and the engine. I kept saying I would clean them up later and I decided it was late enough...and then I thought this morning that it was too late. I realized I hadn't routed the parking brake cables consistently on each side, and I didn't like the way either side was actually done. So out came the seats again (!!! I have gotten really good at that now) to remove the brake lever and the housing. I am really happy with the way it all turned out though. All laid out symmetrically and out of the way of everything. And plenty of loop left so that the suspension can go through full travel.

I spent way too much time trying to figure out how to reuse the stock HVAC fan. I don't want AC, but I do like the idea of having air movement in the cabin to just keep things a little cooler. Massachusetts is hot in the summer, but not Arizona hot! I mounted it in the front and plumbed a 2" pipe into each side of the cabin. It actually works really well....better than I was expecting. And it doesn't look too hacked up. I am going to replace the white pipe with black, it just hasn't arrived yet.

Fan 1.jpgFan 2.jpg

I placed the two side panels into position to be able to claim that I started on the body today. And I definitely agree with the advice from Mike (ipassgas) to put that bracket that goes behind the striker in place now. It is one of the defining points for positioning the side panel apparently. Putting it in later would be frustrating.

SIde Panels in place.jpg

[sgarrett]

I have a couple of questions seeking advice from you guys.

1. Now that I see how the rear quarter panel is positioned in front of the gas filler tube it looks like I placed it wrong. I have it routed below my coolant tube. But it looks like this is going to prevent it from reaching all the way up to the place where it is supposed to attach on the fender. Did you guys route it above or below the coolant tube? I don't have much gas in the tank but I am worried how much is going to come out if i disconnect the gas tube and move it above the coolant tube (I am NOT taking off those darn coolant tubes again!).

Gas filler and cooling pipe.jpg

2. I think this is an easy question, but I assume I am supposed to trim off excess fiberglass on panels like this one here. I assume I cut it down to be flush with the frame. It gets covered up anyway, but what it the best way you guys have found to cut these panels cleanly?

Side panel overlap 2.jpg

3. It says to position the front of the side panel 5/8" from the front edge of the frame. No problem, I understand that. But in the picture in the manual there is some excess fiberglass that has been removed. I point at it with the yellow arrow in my picture below. I see in some builds that people leave that on there but it has definitely been removed in the manual. If I leave it on, I would shorten it to be only 5/8", but then it will end up being sandwiched between the frame and the piece of aluminum that makes the back wall of the wheel well. What do you guys recommend?

Side panel overlap.jpg

As always, any help is greatly appreciated!

[STiPWRD]

1. Sorry, can't help. I have the Boyd tank and the filler tube is in a different location.

2. Yes, just about every fiberglass panel needs trimming. For cutting fiberglass, I typically use a 4.5" disc on an angle grinder but you can also use a small reciprocating air saw (for example Ingersoll Rand 529). Definitely wear a mask and eye protection, you don't want to be breathing that stuff.

3. I left the fiberglass and sandwiched it. I just trimmed the forward edge to be flush with the frame. The wheel well aluminum also sandwiches the piece of fiberglass above the door bracket.

[sgarrett]

Thanks! Do you have a trick to keep the angle grinder straight when cutting a long straight line?

Will definitely use mask, gloves, eye protection....and long sleeves. Remember mainly sleepless nights with super itchy arms after sanding down the Corvette panels!

I ended up removing the gas filler and only a small amount of gas came out. Turns out I really can't get it above the coolant tube but it looks like I can remount the coolant tube a little higher and still miss the fiberglass on the side sill. If it is a little higher then all is good I think.

[STiPWRD]

Thanks! Do you have a trick to keep the angle grinder straight when cutting a long straight line?

Mostly just practice but a straight cut line with a sharpie helps a lot. I'll usually score the cut line with the angle grinder and then go back and cut all the way through. I also try to steady the angle grinder hand against a flat surface if possible, sort of like when welding.

[aquillen]

I use the air saw about half the time on aluminum sheet and fiberglass or a multi-tool (where the saw blade vibrates left and right). Either one works great. Long straight cuts are easier with the multi, curves and detail work use the air saw. Angle grinder is super fast, easy to gouge if not careful, and throws the dust so hard almost impossible to catch it with a vacuum. The other two I can hold vacuum in one hand, saw in the other. Still have the mask because none get all that dust.

Nice job on the console by the way...

[sgarrett]

I was very excited to start putting on the body panels. It has been almost three years since I got the donor. I thought I would be done in three years! But getting to the body really feels like progress.

I was happy to see that there were no critters that had taken up permanent residence in the hardtop. I had to store it under my screen porch covered in a blue tarp for the past few years. Except for lots of spider webs and some dust, it is in great shape. I clamped the side panels, rear fenders, and tail all into place and then put the top onto them. Wow...they all lined up really well. I need to do a few adjustments but nothing major. Not too much warping on the back edge of the hard top after storage and I used a 2x4 between the windshield mounts to keep them at the right spacing for the past few years.

Rear quarter panel.jpg

But I was concerned to see that the windshield shroud completely covers the caps for the reservoirs.

Reservoirs blocked.jpg

Do you guys cut anything back in that area to still give you access? Or do I need to pull the dash to be able to get to them in the future?

I also started to place the front fenders on just to see how close/easy those are going to be since I have definitely read about how those aren't so easy.

Passenger side panels.jpg

It looks great from a distance, but uh oh....

fender and windshield frame alignment.jpg

Yeah....that is going to take some careful and thoughtful cutting to get it all to fit nicely with each other.

My strategy is going to be to make sure the sides, rear fenders, tail, and top all are aligned. Then I'm going to roughly line up the front fenders, nose insert, and hood without the top to see how they fit. Then work on adjusting the fenders to line up with the top. I have a good picture of how the sample car in the FFR showroom was finished and I've looked at a lot of your photos here on the forums. Hopefully I won't have to go down the path of laying up more fiberglass like some of you have done.

[AZPete]

"But I was concerned to see that the windshield shroud completely covers the caps for the reservoirs"
You can cut almost all of the windshield shroud off. Leave 1/2 - 3/4 inch of the shroud so the apron will keep it's shape.

[idf]

I used Mike Everson's reservoir relocation kit. I think I read that it is no longer available, but it is still listed on his website. Maybe he can be persuaded to make another run.

[sgarrett]

After spending more hours looking at previous build posts I see that I still have lots of finessing to do with these pieces!

[sgarrett]

I started a new job in the middle of February so that slowed things down for a while. And now I am trying to figure out how to do that job from home, so that is taking up my time. But I have snuck out to the garage a few times in an attempt to make a little progress.

It is shocking to me just how many degrees of freedom we have to get the body panels to all line up with each other. Every time I thought I had it perfect I would try to add the next piece and discover I need to adjust the things I have already done. Rather than locking things down like they suggest in the manual, I took a step back and am using clamps and tape to hold things in place as I move to the next thing to add. It is working much better since it is easy to adjust things slightly then re-tape. I now actually think I have the side rails, rear panel, top/hatch all aligned well. Finally!

Here are some examples of my taping prowess. I used the tape to hold things in place and to help me eyeball the center of the roof.

Aligning driver rear fender.jpgAligning passenger rear fender.jpgAligning rear panel.jpg

Although you can't see them, the gaps are all actually pretty good. My only troublesome spots are the middle of the rear fenders where they need to be pushed in to align with the side of the top. It is right in the spot where you add the bolt to attach the fender to the frame. I found that I needed to modify the mounting surface a bit to prevent it from rubbing against the underside of the fender.

Rear Fender Mount Modification.jpg

I think I need to take off a little more to get the fender in another 0.10 inches or so.

I also cut out the area under the windshield.

Below windshield cut out.jpg

I had to get creative because one brake line was just a little bit too high. And the reservoir was sitting just a little bit too far forward.....until I discovered I needed to adjust the top. I may have been able to avoid cutting to make clearance for it now that I have the top actually aligned correctly.

In hindsight, I should've paid more attention to getting the top to line up perfectly with the fender right at the top/rear edge of the door. I see now that you really don't want any step or misalignment there at all.

[sgarrett]

I started to tackle the doors with great fear and trepidation. Yep...right off the bat I discovered I needed to go back and readjust things with the alignment between the top and the driver side rear fender. I despaired that I had the worst kit ever made with no possibility of me EVER getting the door frame to line up with the striker. But wait, we have a nearly infinite number of adjustments on this door frame! I followed the suggestions in the tips and tricks and it actually lined up really well!

I taped my striker into the middle of its adjustment range, attached the hinges and door latch to the door frame and closed it on the striker, then mounted the hinges to the chassis. Wow. It worked. But this is when I discovered my roof was still too far back about about .25". Once I moved it forward and got the edge of it lined up with the door opening I think I am in business!

I also followed the suggestion to line up the door frame so that it is parallel to the body. In the picture, I marked that with 2 green lines. Are those the parts that should be parallel? If I had just done it without considering that I would've made the door frame come in closer to the body as it goes from front of the car toward the rear.

Door frame alignment.jpg

Being emboldened by what I am hoping is lasting success on the door, I thought I would tackle the window. Being the smart and careful car builder I am, I left the paper on the window to protect it. As I held it next to the spot I am supposed to mount it to on the power window track I despaired because the mount is at and angle but the bottom of my window is flat. After an hour looking at the window track and a sleepless night thinking about what I did wrong, I picked the window back up to see if I was missing something and discovered the bottom of the window has a cutout to make it align with the slide. The paper was covering it so I didn't notice. Good grief. I am an idiot....again!

Truthfully, it took all of about ten minutes of tweaking to put the glass in and align it with the roof. At this point it goes up and down into position perfectly. And it looks like there is a theoretical possibility I could cut a slot in the door that it would be able to go up and down through without binding. I am not counting my chickens yet since they haven't hatched, but I don't feel horribly full of despair right now about my window future.

Driver side window alignment.jpg

A skilled observer may note that I inadvertently used the front door latch instead of the rear door latch....need to go back and fix that....

So the next thing is going to be the front fender and the whole intersection point at the A-pillar. My philosophy is to not cut anything until I have spent countless hours and days to try to get it to align since it seems like I can eventually get things to fit without cutting. But in this case I think it has to be cut. I cross-hatched a section of the top lip of the passenger side fender in the picture below.

A-Pillar intersection.jpg

Did you guys cut out this section? If I don't it seems to prevent the fender from sitting down all the way.

[aquillen]

Looks to me like your body panels fit better than mine out of the "box". And your sequence of the last two posts are deja vue for me - same process, if not better luck with the windows. Especially investigate your window seals to the upper frame fitment - will they seal/drag/slide ok(?) before deciding that you have it. One smart move was to center the latch to the bracket, I didn't use that method and wish my bracket was not as deep in as I made it.

As for cutting that section of the hood-fender corner, I don't see how you get around that. I've been saving it on mine, even with with my clamshell hood version, but eventually it will have to be trimmed and probably glassed to look better. Be sure to review Mechie's recent post refresh from the original post by Blwalker105 in the Body section, "Fiberglass tips...". Top notch info there.

[sgarrett]

Thanks Art. I did read over the repost from Mechie. I agree....great info.

[sgarrett]

I got the drivers side door hung last weekend. I used my ‘lots of tape to hold things in place’ method again and it worked pretty well. I also used someone’s recommendation to use corrugated cardboard for defining the gaps. It worked well but in the end I needed to pull up on the door frame at the striker end when tightening the bolts. There is a little play in the hinges that I needed to account for.

Driver door taped 1.jpgDriver door taped 2.jpgDriver door gap setting.jpg

I think the gaps all lined up pretty well. The lower front edge of the door skin will have a better gap once I bolt it to the frame. It is just taped in place now and the tape has loosened up, I also made sure there was enough room still for the side view mirror mount.

Driver door aligned 1.jpgDriver door aligned 2.jpgDriver door mirror gap.jpg

[jbs72697]

Hi
I just stumbled upon your build thread. Looks like some nice work and lots of fun.
I’ve been down to FFR a couple times myself to the showroom and tours and the 818 is the car I’m planning to build in the next year or so. I’ve begun looking for donors now though.
Looking forward to reading more of your posts and pictures as it goes along..

[sgarrett]

I made great progress this weekend. I now have both doors hung and aligned pretty darn well! I also got the driver's side fender aligned up at the A-pillar. I assume there will be a little more adjusting as I try to align the front too. On first glance it looks like the passenger fender will line up at the A-pillar well also.

Fenders in place.jpgRear side view.jpgA Pillar 2.jpgA Pillar 1.jpg

I was also wondering how much stuff you guys have cut away from the A pillar area. The one at FFR has a lot of stuff cut away which makes for some pretty big gaps.

In the picture below, I think I need to cut off the flange in the yellow 'square' roughly where I have a silver line drawn. I also assume I need to cut back on the lip around the end of the fender that I am pointing out with the arrow. Is that what others have done? How much lip on the end of the fender did you leave?

Thanks.

A Pillar 3.jpg

[AZPete]

Don't cut on the silver line. The black FFR 818C has an early hardtop, like my early hardtop, and they cut the A pillars too short. The newer hardtops, like yours, have a longer A pillar to cover the gap. You'll want to trim the back and bottom edges of the squarish tab to your liking, but don't lop it off at your silver line. Since my hardtop had the early short A pillar and a big gap, I had to extend the A pillars with fiberglass.

[sgarrett]

Great! Thanks for the advice. I figured it was there for a reason, but it really looks bad the way it is shaped now. I will 'sculpt' it accordingly.

[lsfourwheeler]

Cool to see there's a few coupe builds all at this bodyworking stage. Looks like yours is coming along well!

[SnyderJD]

Correct across the board! I also notched the aluminum in a few spots to clear lines and had to extend it on some of the more forward splash guards where it didn't line up well (passenger side so I don't have pics). The small panels do go inside the frame but by the time I got to those it was very cramped and I could only get about 4 rivets to attach those.
Attachment 114554Attachment 114555Attachment 114556

The aluminum that site over the upper control arm in post 111, is that from Forma or new parts from FFR?

[STiPWRD]

The aluminum that site over the upper control arm in post 111, is that from Forma or new parts from FFR?

Those were from Forma, they definitely help finish out the front area.

[sgarrett]

I've had my eye on those parts from Forma. I figured I would order them once I got to the point where I could really see how they are going to fit in....I am now getting much closer!

I did fit in those aluminum pieces previously but since I didn't have fenders on atthe time I really don't know how they fit with them yet. I assumed I would need to trim.

[sgarrett]

Well....I feel like I have made a ton of progress over the past week. I felt a bit of momentum because I felt like I was close to hitting a milestone, which I did last night. I believe I now have all of the fiberglass panels in position and ready to be locked down. By that, I mean I need to now commit to their alignment. In a lot of spots I am still using tape and clamps to hold then in position since each time I added something new I needed to adjust something else and I was tired of drilling out rivets.

Yay.....here it is! The hood was the last thing I put on, and with two tweaks to the fenders it fit right into place. What a great feeling. I see where i need to sand down its lip if I want it to sit flush with the fender height. But my gaps all seem pretty good.

All panels in place.jpg

The previous few days were another episode in frustration with door alignment though. I didn't like where the passenger door had ended up. There was a very uneven gap between the bottom of the door and the sail. It was really tight at the rear and about 5/8" gap at the front. So I started tweaking and completely lost any sort of alignment. It truly looked like the door physically would never be able to fit properly. Imagine the outside shape of the door as a rectangle and the opening created by the sail/fender/top as a squished trapezoid. I thought I was doomed. But I just started over.

I made sure the door frame (without the skin) fit up near the A-pillar and aligned with the middle part of the striker range. I figured out the striker range by shining a light through the back and then marking where the slots were at the highest and lowest part of the range. The two black x's are my target for where I want the striker to be. I also moved the top as far forward as possible while lining it up with the back of the sail. The silver line next to the mounting point shows how far back I originally had it. I also had it pushed down to its lowest setting originally.

Passenger door striker range of positions.jpgTop to back of passenger sail alignment.jpgTop Passenger side A-Pillar mounting position.jpg

But even with all of that the back of the door was being pushed up into the top. I didn't have enough range of adjustment to tip the back down without also having the front tip down. So I cheated. I added spacers between the top hinge (not the bottom one) and the door frame. It worked perfectly! You can see the gaps I ended up with and the only thing I changed was adding these spacers to only the top hinge. That caused enough rotation to line things up! I just about fainted when I saw the final result!

Passenger Door to Sail fit.jpgPassenger Door to Top fit.jpgPassenger Door Frame spacers.jpg

I know there are a lot of us going thru this phase right now and it is not easy. All I can say is convince yourself it is possible to get these things to line up. If they aren't lining up, pause before doing anything drastic to modify the parts. Just back track until you find something that can be adjusted. It might be as far back as the rear bumper! Anything that you have already locked down, un-lock it. You need as many degrees of freedom as possible. I do hope that my striker strategy still plays out properly because I haven't tried to actually install it yet.

I also spent time lining up the body lines between the doors and the fenders as you can see in this picture.

Fender Driver Door alignment wout hood.jpg

I thought it looked great. But that made the opening too narrow for the hood. I needed to space the top of the fenders apart a little and then the hood fit perfectly. And the whole alignment between the fenders/doors/a-pillar also is much better now. I guess I didn't need to take quite so much material off of the fender lip. But of course, now my body lines aren't lined up so elegantly any more.

Fender Driver Door alignmnet with hood.jpg

I tried to pull the door skin out at the mirror mount, but then it interferes with the little wing on the top coming down off of the a-pillar.

My question to the group: Were you able to line up the body line in the door with the line in the fender so that it all looks continuous or did you end up with something misaligned more like I have?

[aquillen]

It is amazing - you just keep fiddling and it starts to fit. I found that pulling the bottom of the sail - under the door - down and then getting the underside fastened to the bottom of the car - improves the clearance along the bottom of the door. Until I did that the bottom clearance for the door was not good. The top of the sail all along under the door was angled up so it was higher = closer to the door skin the further you came out away from the center of the car. I drilled and tapped for 10-32 screws along there instead of riveting.

[sgarrett]

It is amazing - you just keep fiddling and it starts to fit. I found that pulling the bottom of the sail - under the door - down and then getting the underside fastened to the bottom of the car - improves the clearance along the bottom of the door. Until I did that the bottom clearance for the door was not good. The top of the sail all along under the door was angled up so it was higher = closer to the door skin the further you came out away from the center of the car. I drilled and tapped for 10-32 screws along there instead of riveting.

Yes! I found exactly the same thing. And I plan to use screws instead of rivets too. But I bought some 10-32 inserts I am going to use.

[Ajzride]

Yes! I found exactly the same thing. And I plan to use screws instead of rivets too. But I bought some 10-32 inserts I am going to use.

I would just tap the frame rather than using the inserts. The inserts will stick up and and not fit flush with the frame, but the metal is plenty thick enough to tap.