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Thread: Coyote with stock ford 6 speed

  1. #1

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    Coyote with stock ford 6 speed

    Has anyone successfully done this besides Forma-cars? Seems they were working on a shifter and driveshaft. Haven't heard anything new in quite a while.
    Thanks Mike

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    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael everson View Post
    Has anyone successfully done this besides Forma-cars? Seems they were working on a shifter and driveshaft. Haven't heard anything new in quite a while.
    Thanks Mike
    Check with Erik Treves. Pretty sure he used the stock Ford 6-speed in his Coupe build. As I recall, fabricated his own mechanism to move the shifter forward.
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    Junior Member dbo_texas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael everson View Post
    Has anyone successfully done this besides Forma-cars? Seems they were working on a shifter and driveshaft. Haven't heard anything new in quite a while.
    Thanks Mike
    I tried contacting Formacars a couple of times to get an update on whether they plan to release an adapter kit - both via PM on this site and via their website - never got any response back. I do believe they've installed their adapter on a couple of Roadsters but I don't know if they ever officially released the kit. Last update was quite a while ago as you mentioned. Sounded like towards the end of 2017 they were close, but then nothing in 2018.

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    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    In addition to the shifter issue the 6 speed uses a funky rubber Guibo driveshaft coupling which has to be converted to a more conventional Spicer type u-joint by means of an output shaft adapter. FWIW, in conversations with Jim & Jesper while looking at the underside of a 6 speed Mustang at SEMA they didn't feel that there would be enough benefit to the 6 speed to justify pursuing it.

    Jeff

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    Jeff, good to know. I am looking at it just for that reason. A complete used drivetrain is pretty reasonable compared to buying a used Coyote then a new tremec and everything needed to make it work. Could be a significant savings.
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by michael everson View Post
    ...A complete used drivetrain is pretty reasonable compared to buying a used Coyote then a new tremec and everything needed to make it work. Could be a significant savings.
    Mike
    Undoubtedly. I'm kind of in the same boat currently as the car's owner and I try to debate the cost vs complications of going this route for a Gen3 Coupe I'm involved in.

    Jeff

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    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    I wonder if the GTF will be set up for a stock drive train. I would think this should be a priority since it would drop the cost significantly. My wife drives a 15 GT w/ Performance Pack and 6 spd standard trans and it is a really nice package.
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    Junior Member dbo_texas's Avatar
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    FYI - for anyone interested - Larry @ Formacars emailed me back this morning and indicated their MT-82 shifter mounting kit design is completed. They don't have it on their website yet because they are still working on the install instructinos, but indicated you can give them a call to discuss it. I don't know for sure, but like others have suggested, you may also need to get a new drive shaft to work in the MK4 w/ IRS. But I don't know for sure about that...something you'll want to confirm. Just passing along the info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michael everson View Post
    Jeff, good to know. I am looking at it just for that reason. A complete used drivetrain is pretty reasonable compared to buying a used Coyote then a new tremec and everything needed to make it work. Could be a significant savings.
    Mike
    A used TR3650 5 speed from a 03-04 Mustang GT is reasonably priced, bolt-on rto the Coyote and will hold.

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    I spoke to Larry Wright Formacars Sales Manager at Barrett Jackson Scottsdale and had a chance to sit in their roadster and run the MT82 shifter thru the gates. I liked the feel and shifter position which fell nicely to hand. They now have it up on their web site with an anticipated shipping date mid-march. I took a big gulp, reminded myself that the price includes recovery of the engineering and development costs and placed my order. Once I have the real thing in hand I will post an update.

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    Quote Originally Posted by totem View Post
    A used TR3650 5 speed from a 03-04 Mustang GT is reasonably priced, bolt-on to the Coyote and will hold.
    But the TR3650 is only rated to 360lbs.ft of torque. I think the coyote will be too much for that transmission to handle. I have one in my car with a 4.6 DOHC and dream about putting a Coyote in it. Everything I've read on the TR3650 suggests that eventually it will fail with the Coyote if pushed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewey McBride View Post
    But the TR3650 is only rated to 360lbs.ft of torque. I think the coyote will be too much for that transmission to handle. I have one in my car with a 4.6 DOHC and dream about putting a Coyote in it. Everything I've read on the TR3650 suggests that eventually it will fail with the Coyote if pushed.
    You should read up on the MT-82 then. I had a 2015 Mustang GT and if there was any one thing I could change about the car it would be the transmission. The 2015-2017 MT-82 was failing with not much more than stock HP in the Mustang. I don't know about the 2018 and up, think they changed it a bit to accommodate the new 460hp Coyote.
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    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewey McBride View Post
    But the TR3650 is only rated to 360lbs.ft of torque. I think the coyote will be too much for that transmission to handle. I have one in my car with a 4.6 DOHC and dream about putting a Coyote in it. Everything I've read on the TR3650 suggests that eventually it will fail with the Coyote if pushed.
    Yes, maybe in a 4000# car, but not in a 2400# car. You will never get enough traction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rich grsc View Post
    Yes, maybe in a 4000# car, but not in a 2400# car. You will never get enough traction.
    That's really good to know. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewey McBride View Post
    But the TR3650 is only rated to 360lbs.ft of torque. I think the coyote will be too much for that transmission to handle. I have one in my car with a 4.6 DOHC and dream about putting a Coyote in it. Everything I've read on the TR3650 suggests that eventually it will fail with the Coyote if pushed.
    TR3650 is not a TKO but still a better alternative in term of fit and reliability than the MT82. There are plenty of high HP forced induction Mustang using the TR3650 without problem.

    For a budget build, a 03-04 TR3650 with gen 1 Coyote from a truck is a good deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    In addition to the shifter issue the 6 speed uses a funky rubber Guibo driveshaft coupling which has to be converted to a more conventional Spicer type u-joint by means of an output shaft adapter. FWIW, in conversations with Jim & Jesper while looking at the underside of a 6 speed Mustang at SEMA they didn't feel that there would be enough benefit to the 6 speed to justify pursuing it.

    Jeff
    Actually, I think this is the easy part. I had this driveshaft made at my local drive shaft shop in a couple of days. I brought them a stock Mustang drive shaft, and they made me this with parts they had on the shelf. This one is for a stock 6 speed automatic behind a Coyote, but the connector is the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by totem View Post
    A used TR3650 5 speed from a 03-04 Mustang GT is reasonably priced, bolt-on rto the Coyote and will hold.
    Why 03-04? What about a T45?
    Mike

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    So what we're saying is with a solution for the shifter and the driveshaft I can now just man up and buy a Voodoo and Tremec from a wrecked GT350 and put it in a Coupe?
    If in doubt......flat out-Colin McRae

    Coupe #485

  22. #19
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNcoupe View Post
    So what we're saying is with a solution for the shifter and the driveshaft I can now just man up and buy a Voodoo and Tremec from a wrecked GT350 and put it in a Coupe?
    Off topic but I'll throw it out there anyway. A month or so ago we had an open house here with our club members checking out my Coupe build. Two guys from Ford Performance attended and spoke to the group. Talked about in my build thread. The question came up about why Ford doesn't offer the Voodoo as a crate engine. The answers were marketing, which we've heard before, meaning they only want the Voodoo in the GT350. But also because they said the GT350 has a number of additional modifications that deal with the vibration of the Voodoo engine. Unique only to that model. It's a pretty big deal. The Voodoo is a large displacement for the flat plane crank setup, and there's apparently a reason why others haven't done it. They pointed to my Coupe chassis and said they would never recommend a Voodoo in that chassis. Said it was way too stiff and would quickly break things. Like engine mounts, headers, accessories, etc. Interesting hearing that kind of stuff from people who should know. Also said there's going to be an "Aluminator" version of the Gen 3 Coyote coming out in the future. With the potential for power adders to the already potent Gen 3 Coyote, the Voodoo power can easily be exceeded. Just can't duplicate the sound.
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    Yeah I know they don't offer it as a crate but there are a few pallet crates on ebay from salvage GT350s. The motor mounts look different than Coyote mounts and I assume that's for vibration dampening. Plus I think they use a completely different harmonic balancer. I had the thought about the chassis being too stiff and would probably vibrate your teeth out.
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  24. #21
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Along the lines of Bob's driveshaft I found similar possibilities when I needed to shorten and change out the rear flange on my shaft to work w/ my IRS upgrade. Seems like this is a case where once in their world, these driveshaft people can make virtually anything you might need. If you have the needed room lengthwise, then connecting any diff to any trans isn't very hard for them. I was surprised how easy they made the process.
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  25. #22
    East Coast Speed Machines Erik W. Treves's Avatar
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    The MT82 version 2 is living fine behind my setup. It did take some engineering to make it work... not only will you need to do something about the shifter and driveshaft, but the tranny mount as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    Along the lines of Bob's driveshaft I found similar possibilities when I needed to shorten and change out the rear flange on my shaft to work w/ my IRS upgrade. Seems like this is a case where once in their world, these driveshaft people can make virtually anything you might need. If you have the needed room lengthwise, then connecting any diff to any trans isn't very hard for them. I was surprised how easy they made the process.
    Yeah! I was impress the driveshaft shop could shorten my donor driveshaft in 24hr. However, they screw up, it was too long.They measured joint to joint instead of flange to flange.

    I returned to the shop, they cut it, shorten it, welded it, balanced it and painted it in 45 minutes while I was waiting!

  27. #24
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    I decided to go with the formacars shifter kit because it represented an all in one solution to both moving the shifter into the correct location to use in the roadster chassis and as well incorporates a tranny mount bracket plus tunnel sheet metal with the correct opening. That plus the fact that after mocking up 3 prototype modifications to the stock shifter, non of which worked all that well, I had to reluctantly admit to myself that I did not posses the level of fabricating skills shown by Erik Treves on his Gen 3, Hawk Coupe build.

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