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Thread: Patrick's 427 Build

  1. #201
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    Wirings Continues

    Life has really been beating me down recently and I haven't had much time to dedicate to the build. Things have been moving slow around here, but I've made a little bit of progress and inching closer to First Start.

    I've managed to get the dash wired up (hopefully correctly).

    I do have a few questions for the forum.

    1st) Do these headers appear to be installed correctly?





    There is a Fel-Pro gasket between the header and block. No sealant was used.


    Next, I might just be having a brain fart, but I'm not seeing where these wires are supposed to connect. They are: Front Lights (Left and Right), Rear Light (Left and Right) and I think the Horn. I can't tell where these are supposed to go? I thought the wires for the front and rear lights were already laid out in the front and rear harness, so I'm a bit confused about what to do with these.

    .


    Last, I got a battery today. I went with the Optima Red Top. It kinda fits with the red and black color scheme, which is really the only reason I chose it over the yellow. I'm utterly clueless about batteries, etc, so I just went with what looked good.

    I'm not sure about the final location of the battery yet, but it's way heavier than I imagined, so I'm leaning towards the rear of the car.


    Last, this is a picture of my dash. It's not completely done, but I think it'll shape up to look pretty good once it's installed.



    Other than that, I tried to get my driveshaft to slip into the transmission and I failed miserably. I cannot get that thing to slide in. Any tips?

    Any help is always appreciated.

    Patrick
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  2. #202
    David aka Ducky2009 Ducky2009's Avatar
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    Headers look good. Verify the bolt size = what torque.
    Wires are the connect points to the dash switches. NOTE: RT turn signals has their own instructions.
    Did you remove the inner plug from the trans? The TKO instructions defines how. Don't damage the tail shaft seal while removing the inner plug. Hope this helps.

    Edited: As you review the Chassis Wiring Harness instructions book, take note... the Hazard Switch (emergency flashers) are not listed in the instructions (at least in mine, dated Feb 2017). Look at page 29, Dash Harness wiring diagram. It calls for a DPST (double post, single throw) switch, supplied with the kit. The other switches (head lights, horn, wipers, etc) are covered in the back of the book. Additional items to consider: Heater or seat heaters

    Wiring diagram for Hazard switch.
    http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/cont...ng-diagram.pdf

    All online instruction links can be found of the FFR home page, parts, instructions.
    Last edited by Ducky2009; 06-09-2019 at 11:32 AM.
    MK4 Build #9035 Delivered 2/17/17, First Start & Go-Kart 6/2/17, Licensed 9/1/17
    Paint - Lightning Blue Metallic, No Hood Scoop, No Stripes
    Coyote Engine & TKO-600. Solid Axle, 8.8-3.55, Power Brakes, Dual Roll Bars
    Heater and Glove Box, Drop Trunk, Wipers, Radio, FFR Vintage Gauges W/GPS Speedo
    Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...MK4-Build-9035

  3. #203
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    The Build Goes On

    I'm continuing on working on the wiring and the radiator today.

    Couple quick questions regarding the radiator mounting.

    1st: I wanted to confirm that I remove the pieces of metal from the frame since I'm using the Breeze Upper Radiator attachment.


    2nd) Can someone verify that I have the radiator in the correct orientation in theses pictures.



    Thanks,

    Pat
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  4. #204
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    Ducky,

    Thank you for the info, I appreciate this very much. Although, looking at that diagram gives me a little bit of the deer-in-the-headlight feeling. Hopefully, it'll start to make sense when I get to that part of the wiring.

    Pat
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  5. #205
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Radiator orientation is good. Top inlet is on the passenger side and bottom is on the drivers side. With the Breeze upper mount, per the instructions, you only need to remove those 3/4” bars if you need the additional clearance at the bottom. I tried both ways with the Breeze bottom radiator support and ended up cutting them off.
    MKIV Roadster - #9380 - Complete Kit - Delivered 7/17/18
    Blueprint 427, TKO 600, IRS
    Build Thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...V-Build-Thread

  6. #206
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    First Start....Fail

    So I tried to start my engine for the first time last night and I failed miserably.

    Basically, when I turned the key, nothing happened. Nothing. The fuel pump didn't make any noise, the dash gauges didn't light up or move, the little computer that controls the EFI didn't turn on. Nada. It was like nothing had any power.

    So, I looked over the RF schematic a little closer and found some issues that I was hoping the forum could provide some clarity.

    This first picture is of the schematic, zoomed in on the solenoid. The schematic shows there to be 5 wires attached directly to the solenoid. I cannot locate 3 of these wires. Currently, the only wire I have attached to my solenoid is the red (+) battery cable. I cannot find the other 3.



    Does anyone know where the wires called Red-Battery Feed and Red-IGN SW->SOL are found? Because I can't find them anywhere and it appears they are supposed to be connected directly to the (+) terminal of the solenoid.

    Also, I cannot locate the light blue wire called LT BLU-NS SW-->Starter SOL.

    I'm assuming the wire called Red-Alternator FD is this wire:



    Any help is appreciated,

    Pat
    Last edited by MechanicalKnowledgeNone; 06-11-2019 at 08:40 AM.
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  7. #207
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    You're not going to get very far without those wires accounted for. Easy one first, yes that's the alternator wire. The other wires you're not finding are one of the main branches coming out of the main harness. The three red wires (alternator, battery, ign switch) are large gauge. The blue starter solenoid is a smaller one. First order of business is to find them. They're bundled together and should be marked like the others with individual wire marking plus a paper tag that says (I think) starter solenoid or something similar.

    Now for the maybe confusing part. It's not necessary to drag those wires all the way down to the physical starter motor solenoid. Some do, but you may find they're not long enough plus it's a little messy. I suspect the term "starter solenoid" is a leftover from the days when there was a firewall solenoid. Those were common on Ford (and other) vehicles before the now common Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction (PMGR) starters with an integral solenoid. You can still use a firewall solenoid if you want, but it's not needed and basically is just a gathering point for the wires. I haven't had a firewall solenoid in any of my builds. Personally, I use a master disconnect to gather the wires at the firewall. But many also just use a binding post.

    Here's what I recommend you end up with: Large battery cable from +12 terminal on the battery to the firewall area. If using a binding post, attach (1) Cable from battery, (2) Large cable back to the big terminal on the starter, (3) Those three wires from the RF harness (alternator, battery, ign switch). That connection will power your starter and also the RF harness. If you use a master disconnect, cable from battery on one side, all the other wires on the other side.

    The blue starter solenoid wire does need to physically go to the starter and is attached to the small terminal on the starter solenoid. This wire has +12V when you turn the ignition key to start and closes the solenoid to spin the starter. Note this wire goes through a clutch safety switch, which is designed to be closed when you push the clutch down, completing the circuit. If you don't have that (or make some other arrangements for the safety function) the +12V won't make it to the starter and you'll have another no start.

    I'm assuming you have the ignition switch wired per the RF instructions. Hope that helps and good luck.
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  9. #208
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    So I was able to locate the missing bundle of wires. They had fallen under my transmission, but I ended up finding them. In this bundle were three red wires and one light blue wire.

    Two of the red wires were labeled and the third one was not. The two that were labeled were: Red Battery Feed and Red IGN SW-> SOL. I'm not sure what the third red wire is because it was not labeled. I'm assuming its the Red-Alternator-FD?

    The light blue wire was the missing LT BLUE NS-SW-->Starter SOL

    I went ahead and connected all of them to the solenoid. The red wires were a tight fit, as previously discussed.

    I then tried to start the engine. The engine turned over, but it did not start.

    The concern was I didn't hear the fuel pump whenever I turned the key to the ON position.

    I was concerned that the fuel pump wasn't getting power, so I disconnected the plug from the fuel pump and then used a multimeter to test the fuel pump wire, which read a little over 12v.

    I then took some extra unused wire I had laying around and connected the fuel pump directly to the battery (and a ground wire to the frame). As soon as I touched the wire to the battery...bam..the fuel pump started humming. (Granted, there was a leak of fuel from where the sender hose attaches ) so I only held that connection to the battery for a second or two, but I was encouraged that the pump worked.

    But now I'm stumped. According to Papa, I must have a grounding problem somewhere? Any thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Patrick
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  10. #209
    Papa's Avatar
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    Patrick,

    When you moved the inertia switch to the fuel pump control side of the circuit, did you connect the two wires together that used to come in and out of the inertia switch? That should only affect the RF fuel pump relay that you aren't using now, but just wanted to check that box.

    Next question is are you certain you connected the Sniper fuel pump control wire to the correct tan wire in the harness? Pull the RF fuel pump relay and see if you still have power at the fuel pump when you turn the key on. If no, you may have tapped into the wrong wire. If yes, you should have power at the pump for about 10 seconds and then it should drop to 0 or nearly 0 volts. That would tell me the Sniper is providing the power as it should.

    Dave
    Last edited by Papa; 06-11-2019 at 07:44 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  11. #210
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    First Start

    I was able to start my engine this morning!

    I think the issue was the red plastic plug that connected the wires to the top of the fuel pump sending unit was not tight enough. I ended up resting a 3lb sledge hammer on top of the plug to ensure a solid connection and I tried turning the key to the ON position. Bam.. the fuel pump clicked on, which it had not done previously, and a few seconds later I cranked the key and the engine came roaring to life!

    I'll be honest with you, I wasn't fully prepared for it to actually fire up, so when it did, it scared the living crap out of me. I may have suffered a small cardiac event, but I think I'm gonna be okay.

    I didn't run it for very long, maybe 15-20 seconds and then shut it off.

    I noticed a small leak from where the Holley Sniper fuel line attached to the engine, so I tightened that up.

    Next step, getting the clutch and fuel cable connected and finish up the radiator. Plus I still have to get the driveshaft into the transmission. Still struggling with that...
    Last edited by MechanicalKnowledgeNone; 06-14-2019 at 02:29 PM.
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

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  13. #211
    Papa's Avatar
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    I snapped the locking tab off three of those plugs during my build. If the tab is in tact, just be sure that the plug fully seats and the tab locks it in place. I'd also put a bit of dielectric grease on the contacts.
    Last edited by Papa; 06-14-2019 at 02:48 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

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  15. #212
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    Power Steering

    My excitement from starting my engine has faded in the face of hooking up my power steering lines. I'm a bit confused and once again, I'm turning to the forum for help.

    These are the lines that came with the kit.



    I'm pretty sure the longer one (on the bottom of the picture, the one with metal fittings on both ends) is the supply line. However, my pump doesn't have a threaded fitting for this hose to screw into. I'm assuming the red arrow is pointing to the location in which the pressure line is supposed to attach, but it is not a threaded hole, instead it is a flared ending.



    Am I supposed to cut one of the metal ends off the hose and just push it on to this fitting?

    On the other hand, there is a threaded fitting on the back of the pump. Is this where the return line is supposed to attach or am I missing something here?

    Last edited by MechanicalKnowledgeNone; 06-15-2019 at 12:04 PM.
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  16. #213

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    The side with the hose barb I believe is the low pressure (Return) side.
    Also, if that is a Saginaw (GM) style pump, then I'm pretty sure it will need to be either regulated down or at least restricted to work with the Mustang style rack.

    https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60791/10002/-1
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 06-15-2019 at 11:19 AM.

  17. #214
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    Power Steering Hoses

    I'm having a heck of time with my power steering hoses.

    First, the Pressure Line is not long enough to reach its attachment point on the back of the pump. I don't have a picture of that.

    Secondly, I cannot get the return line fitting to seat where it's supposed to on the rack. There is interference between the metal neck of the hose and the X member of the frame. You can see this better in the second picture. There is contact where the red arrow is pointing.





    Any ideas? I'm open to any suggestions, but based on what I'm seeing, I see an aftermarket purchase in my future of hoses in which there is not such a prominent metal neck.

    Thanks,

    Patrick
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  18. #215
    Papa's Avatar
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    Pat,

    Save yourself the hassle and get a set of lines from Breeze. Tell Mark what you have and he'll get you set up with what you need. Also ask about a pressure regulator. You'll blow your rack seals out if that pump is putting out 1200 PSI to the Mustang rack expecting 700 PSI.

    Dave
    Last edited by Papa; 06-15-2019 at 03:51 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  19. #216
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Pat,

    Save yourself the hassle and get a set of lines from Breeze. Tell Mark what you have and he'll get you set up with what you need. Also ask about a pressure regulator. You'll blow your rack seals out if that pump is putting out 1200 PSI to the Mustang rack expecting 700 PSI.

    Dave
    Dave,

    Thanks for the recommendation. After wasting most of the day messing with these hoses, I think I'm going to take your advice and call Mark. I think I'll spend the rest if the day trying to get my driveshaft into the transmission.
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  20. #217
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    Driveshaft debacle

    So I've been struggling with getting my driveshaft to slide into the transmission. I heard it was a little tricky, but I fought with this thing for nearly two days and I could not get it to slide in. After almost going insane, I think I discovered the issue. I think when I was trimming the metal flange off of the bottom of the transmission, I don't think I trimmed enough. Because of this, the transmission was resting on the 4in crossmember, which was causing the end of the transmission to point upwards just a little bit. However, because it was pointed up, I could not get the driveshaft to get level and therefore it wouldn't go in.

    The solution...I took my engine and transmission out. (Palm-to-forehead)

    I got the engine out and inserted the driveshaft into the transmission, which went in easily.

    I then dropped the engine in again with the driveshaft still in the transmission. Luckily for me, my neighbor, who is a huge gearhead, just happened to walk by the garage and helped me get the engine back in.

    We were able to get it back in with very little trouble.

    BadAsp427 stopped by for a bit on his way home from what sounded like a looong roadtrip, but couldn't stay very long.

    That's all I had in me today. I feel pretty wiped out at the moment. Now just for fun, I get to go to work for a nice little 8pm-8am shift.

    Tomorrow, I'm going to re-do everything I had to take apart today. Hopefully things go together a little easier the second time around.

    Happy Fathers Day to all you dads out there.

    Pat
    Last edited by MechanicalKnowledgeNone; 06-16-2019 at 07:32 PM.
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  21. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechanicalKnowledgeNone View Post
    Driveshaft debacle

    So I've been struggling with getting my driveshaft to slide into the transmission. I heard it was a little tricky, but I fought with this thing for nearly two days and I could not get it to slide in. After almost going insane, I think I discovered the issue. I think when I was trimming the metal flange off of the bottom of the transmission, I don't think I trimmed enough. Because of this, the transmission was resting on the 4in crossmember, which was causing the end of the transmission to point upwards just a little bit. However, because it was pointed up, I could not get the driveshaft to get level and therefore it wouldn't go in.

    The solution...I took my engine and transmission out. (Palm-to-forehead)

    I got the engine out and inserted the driveshaft into the transmission, which went in easily.

    I then dropped the engine in again with the driveshaft still in the transmission. Luckily for me, my neighbor, who is a huge gearhead, just happened to walk by the garage and helped me get the engine back in.

    We were able to get it back in with very little trouble.

    BadAsp427 stopped by for a bit on his way home from what sounded like a looong roadtrip, but couldn't stay very long.

    That's all I had in me today. I feel pretty wiped out at the moment. Now just for fun, I get to go to work for a nice little 8pm-8am shift.

    Tomorrow, I'm going to re-do everything I had to take apart today. Hopefully things go together a little easier the second time around.

    Happy Fathers Day to all you dads out there.

    Pat
    Man, having to take the engine back out is never fun... but good job that you figured it out!

  22. #219
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    Driveshaft Bolts?

    Can anyone tell me if either one of these are the bolts that attach the driveshaft to the adapter plate?



    The picture in the manual looks different.

    Thanks,

    Patrick
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  23. #220
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechanicalKnowledgeNone View Post
    Driveshaft Bolts?

    Can anyone tell me if either one of these are the bolts that attach the driveshaft to the adapter plate?



    The picture in the manual looks different.

    Thanks,

    Patrick
    Check out my build thread. Post #177
    MKIV Roadster - #9380 - Complete Kit - Delivered 7/17/18
    Blueprint 427, TKO 600, IRS
    Build Thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...V-Build-Thread

  24. #221
    Senior Member MechanicalKnowledgeNone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cv2065 View Post
    Check out my build thread. Post #177

    Thanks CV!
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

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