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Thread: Patrick's 427 Build

  1. #281
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Pat - You might want to mount the body to mount your dash for the go karting. It’s much different than trying to eyeball it.
    MKIV Roadster - #9380 - Complete Kit - Delivered 7/17/18
    Blueprint 427, TKO 600, IRS
    Build Thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...V-Build-Thread

  2. #282
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Pat,

    I know the angle isn't what Holley calls out, but if you use the side pipe collector to mount the O2 sensor, you'll have to compromise. Lots of guys are running the O2 sensor in the collector without issues with the inverted angle.

    Dave

    Is there another location other than the collector that you would recommend?
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  3. #283
    Papa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat427 View Post
    Is there another location other than the collector that you would recommend?
    With your headers, I think the collector in the side pipe will give you the best results. My headers have a double collector in them with a bung for the O2 sensor.

    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  4. #284
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    When I have done cars with oxygen sensors I have either put them in a header tube or in the collector like this:



    No, they aren't above horizontal. No, they don't conflict with the body. No, it has never caused a problem.

    FYI; the reason that they recommend above horizontal is so that they are above any water that collects in the exhaust for longevity, not functionality.

    Jeff

  5. #285
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Fuel Gauge Calibration

    Does anyone know which Ohm setting I should use for calibration purposes? I have the sender that came with the complete kit.
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  6. #286
    Papa's Avatar
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    You want the 16-158 Ohm range. I think it's the 3/4 tank setting in the calibration mode for the gauge.

    Edit: It's actually the 7/8 mark.

    Last edited by Papa; 07-21-2019 at 10:21 AM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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  8. #287
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    Keep trucking, Patrick. You're kickin ***.
    ---Boyd---
    MkIV #9042 build thread
    www.boss427.us
    Plan: 427W-X, TKO600, Moser 3.55 rear.
    Delivered Feb 2017, first start Oct 22, 2017, first go-cart Mar 26, 2018, back from Whitby's paint Aug 17, 2019.

  9. #288
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Go Cart

    I took my baby out go carting for the first time today. Everything went well. I was very surprised how smooth the drive was. The power steering was really nice. I didn't get it above 15mph. I found a small leak in my radiator hose, which I was able to tighten.

    I had a co-worker come over (who is building a FF GTM) to monitor things. I really got a big boost from this milestone. Big thanks to all you guys on the forum that go me to this point.

    Pat
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

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  11. #289
    Papa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat427 View Post
    Go Cart

    I took my baby out go carting for the first time today. Everything went well. I was very surprised how smooth the drive was. The power steering was really nice. I didn't get it above 15mph. I found a small leak in my radiator hose, which I was able to tighten.

    I had a co-worker come over (who is building a FF GTM) to monitor things. I really got a big boost from this milestone. Big thanks to all you guys on the forum that go me to this point.

    Pat
    Congratulations on a MAJOR milestone!

    Dave
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  12. #290
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Congrats Pat! Where’s the video or pics?
    MKIV Roadster - #9380 - Complete Kit - Delivered 7/17/18
    Blueprint 427, TKO 600, IRS
    Build Thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...V-Build-Thread

  13. #291
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Congratulations Pat!

    Jeff

  14. #292
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    Hey Pat.... Congratulations... You've been working hard on this and this is a awesome milestone.

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 ( #8 of 20 ) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    First Start 11-1-18
    ----First GoCart 11-7-18
    BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
    Carb / Heater / Heated Seats / Cruise Control / Drop Trunk & Battery

    Build Thread Click Here Gel Coat Driver 1/12/19 - Hit 1000 Miles 3-23-19 / 2200 miles 4-30-19 / 7500 miles 8/16/19. FaceBook Page - Bando 11 Racing

  15. #293
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Nice work Pat. Telling that it’s so fun even under 15mph isn’t it?
    MK IV Coyote Roadster
    "Life ought to be a struggle of desire toward adventures whose nobility will fertilize the soul."
    Rebecca West
    Build thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...TKO600-and-IRS

  16. #294
    Mark Eaton's Avatar
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    Go Pat go! And I hear you, doing my first Go Cart really revitalized my build and helped wipe away any build fatigue I was experiencing.
    MK4 #9130 , complete kit, arrived 8/10/2017.
    DART SHP 347, EFI, TKO600, IRS
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...n-Build-Thread

  17. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat427 View Post
    Go Cart

    I took my baby out go carting for the first time today. Everything went well. I was very surprised how smooth the drive was. The power steering was really nice. I didn't get it above 15mph. I found a small leak in my radiator hose, which I was able to tighten.

    I had a co-worker come over (who is building a FF GTM) to monitor things. I really got a big boost from this milestone. Big thanks to all you guys on the forum that go me to this point.

    Pat
    Wooohooo!!! - that's awesome, Pat! Congratulations!

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  19. #296
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Good work, that thing has to sound awesome!
    Hope to be near that point in a couple months!
    Complete kit. Delivered 3/19.
    Dart 347 with FiTech 600 from Forte. TKO600. QuickTime. IRS. Wilwoods. PS.
    Forte hydraulic clutch, mech throttle.
    Multiple breeze components: radiator mounts/shroud/fuel vent.
    Interior plans changing weekly

  20. #297
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Fuel Gauge

    I calibrated my fuel gauge as per the Speedhut instructions, which went fine. However, once I set the proper Ohms, the gauge went to "E" like it's supposed to, but it is supposed to then display the current fuel level (I currently have 4 gallons in the tank), but the gauge still is reading "E".

    Any thoughts?
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  21. #298
    Papa's Avatar
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    Pat,

    Just like the fuel pump connection issue you experienced, check the plug connector on the sender. You may not have it fully seated.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  22. #299
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Dave,

    I really have that connection seated firmly, but still no luck. The gauge is still reading "E".
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  23. #300
    Papa's Avatar
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    I assume you have also checked the sender connection at the gauge? Did your gauge harness come with the plugs or did you have to make your own connections?
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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  24. #301
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    I had similar problems. After checking all the connections I pulled the sending unit assuming I was going to need to replace it. I cycled the float a few time to check the ohms. Ohms were good but noticed that after I manually cycled the float it started moving smoother. Gauge has been reading correctly ever since.

    -Steve
    MK IV #8901 - Complete kit, Coyote, TKO-600, IRS. Ordered 5/23/16, Delivered 7/14/16, First Start 8/13/17, First Go-Kart 10/22/17, Registered and Completed 10/18/18. Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...V-Coyote-Build Graduation Thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-Roadster-8901

  25. #302
    Papa's Avatar
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    See what resistance you get at the gauge. You have 142 Ohms between empty and full starting at 16. If 4 gallons is ~1/3 of a tank, then 142/3 = 47.3. Add 47 to 16 and you get ~63 Ohms at 1/3 of a tank. If you don't get a reasonable reading at the gauge, check it at the tank. If still no reading, bad sender. If you get a reading at the tank, but not at the gauge, bad wiring. If you get a reasonable reading at the gauge, recheck the calibration steps and convince yourself that you actually set the value at the 7/8th full mark.

    Check the steps again:

    While gauge is powered up, press and hold button down for 10-12 seconds until pointer swings and stops at ‘1/8’ tank then release the button. You are now in calibration mode.
    Press and release button to toggle between available resistive ohm options. Pointer will travel to each available setting with quick button press. At desired ohm range press and hold button down for 2 seconds to select that range.
    Pointer will then travel to ‘E’ gauge will exit calibration menu and display current fuel level.

    Dave
    Last edited by Papa; 08-02-2019 at 05:48 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  26. #303
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Doors

    I spent most of the day fitting the body and doors.

    I hit a wall pretty early in the day. I cannot seem to get the rear Quick Jack body bolts into place. The reason why is because the gas tank is in the way. In order to troubleshoot this, I will have to either lower the gas tank or perform a modification on the bolts. I don't want to lower the tank because I'm working by myself and I have about 5 gallons of gas in the tank. If I lower the tank I foresee a gas spill in my garage since the tank was pretty wobbly even when it was empty. So, I might do the modification to the bolts, which I decided to table for now.

    Next, I got my front Quick Jack bolts in place with minimal hassle.

    Next, I got the passenger door attached and door latch installed. This all went pretty easy and the door is almost perfectly flush with the body.

    Then, I started on the drivers side. This side is giving me a fit.

    I cannot seem to get the door to sit flush with the body. Actually... I can get the door to sit flush with the body....the problem is that when the door sits flush with the body, then bolts that hold the door to its hindge do not seat properly. See pics below.

    First pic, this is the door sitting nearly flush with the body.


    Now...this next picture is the inside of the door.



    As you can see, the lower bolts do not seat through the holes in the hinge. If I push the bottom of the door inward so those bolts go through the hinge, then the top of the door will pull away from the body. I've even tried to manipulate the body itself instead of the door, but no luck. I just can't seem to get it to work.

    I'm gonna take a break from it and work on the trunk for now.

    Any advice is appreciated.

    Pat
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  27. #304
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Rear quick jack bolts: That issue is talked about a lot. Have you been watching the forums at all? Common solution is the so-called "Kleiner mod" which is to put couplers on the frame and then mount the rear quick jacks with threaded rods. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...hlight=coupler. Going to have to drop the tank enough to install the couplers (which you'd have to do anyway with the bolts, no way around it) but then you're done. You don't have to drop the tank all the way down. Just enough to reach in there and bolt things up. You can use a floor jack with a piece of plywood or whatever to lower the tank. Suggest getting help though. It's a little precarious by yourself. Five gallons isn't a lot, but with it sloshing around can be a little challenging.

    Door hinges: Hate to ask the obvious, but you do know those hinges are adjustable, right? Loosen the mounting bolts at the frame and position the hinge out more at the bottom. I can see from your pic there's available adjustment. Sorry if you've already tried that and hopefully not insulting. But just going by what I see in your picture. FYI, you may have gotten a little ahead of yourself on the latch. Generally better to get the doors hinged and positioned before installing the latches.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread and Video
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  28. #305
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    Your saga sounds like a tape recording of me and #9365...
    The passenger door just about fell onto the car. Minimal fuss, minimal trimming on the edges.
    The driver's side is a POS/PITA (this has been confirmed with a few of the pro-painters/body guys here). The upper kick-in where it meets the cowl/dash will be about 1/4" low, the rest of it will fit pretty decent, but the lower rear will be "out". You can pull the rearmost end of the body sill out a bit to get it close.

    I'm not doing my own body & paintwork, but I did want it to look good for gel-coat miles. I futzed with the DS door for a LONG time to get it halfway looking good without surgury.

    DoorFit03.jpg DoorFit04.jpg
    Last edited by Fixit; 08-09-2019 at 07:40 AM. Reason: added pics
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  29. #306
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    I managed to get the drivers door looking better. BadAsp427 texted me and informed me the hinges are moveable, which was described by edwardb in his post above. So, I was able to get the door looking fairly good.

    I'm getting the trunk on right now.

    It's looking like I'm gonna be doing the, "Coupler Mod" for the rear quick jack bolts. Thats on my to-do list for tomorrow.
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

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  31. #307
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Hood

    Things in the garage have been moving slow around here. I haven't had too much time to spend in the garage lately. But today I managed to get a few hours to work on the car.


    I managed to get my hood scoop installed today.



    I spent a really long time making sure this was centered. I think I managed to succeed.

    Started to work on the drivers side door latch. PITA alert. I couldn't get it to work properly, so I'm going have to wait and to tackle that tomorrow.
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  32. #308
    Papa's Avatar
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    Good progress, Pat. Keep pushing through the little issues and before you know it, you'll have it finished.

    Dave
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  33. #309
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Transmission

    Earlier in my build I was having trouble getting my transmission to go into gear. The issue somehow fixed itself without any explanation and I've been able to move through the gears without trouble. However, over the past few drives, the transmission is slowly becoming more difficult to go into gear and today it finally got to the point that the transmission will not go into gear at all.

    Is this a situation where the clutch cable is becoming slack and needs tightening or is there a problem with the transmission?
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  34. #310
    BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Pat,
    I would almost bet money that the adjustment nut on the end of your clutch cable is slowly vibrating and loosening and that you have probably lost the "jam" nut. Thus, your cable is effectively becoming longer. This means that as you press down on your clutch peddle, the clutch fork is NOT disengaging your clutch fully and making it hard and not impossible to get into gear.

    You will need to get under there and tighten the nut back up on the cable until it is just at the point of pulling the cable tight and your peddle to the top of its arc.

    Here is how I do it... from under the car, pull the cable all the way out... This will be pulling your peddle UP. Once you have it pulled out, spin the crowned nut down into the clutch fork hole until it just touches (be sure the fork is gently pushed toward the front of the car) Then turn it back about 1/4 - 1/2 turn. Then you should have a second regular nut on there that will tighten up and "Jam" up against the crowned nut. Put a wrench on both of them and tighten the jam nut up to the crowned nut. (try not to let the crown nut move from the adjusted position.


    If this doesn't make sense, call me when you are under there and I'll try to talk you through it.

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 ( #8 of 20 ) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    First Start 11-1-18
    ----First GoCart 11-7-18
    BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
    Carb / Heater / Heated Seats / Cruise Control / Drop Trunk & Battery

    Build Thread Click Here Gel Coat Driver 1/12/19 - Hit 1000 Miles 3-23-19 / 2200 miles 4-30-19 / 7500 miles 8/16/19. FaceBook Page - Bando 11 Racing

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  36. #311
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Transmission and More


    Well, I know I haven't been on the forum much recently. My wife and I have both taken new jobs and have moved to Texas. The past month has been pretty hectic. Moving the car was a little complicated, but I managed to get the car to Texas without too much hassle. Hopefully I can get back to the build now that we've completed the move to the Lone Star State.


    As far as the issue I was having with my transmission...well, BadAsp427 (Carl) was correct. The nuts holding the clutch cable to the clutch fork had loosened, which allowed the clutch cable to effectively become longer. Once I tightened those bolts, the cable was shortened and I was able to get the transmission in gear without trouble.

    On another note, I had a question for the forum. When I am go carting around my neighborhood, there seems to be a fairly prominent "lag" in acceleration when I press on the gas.

    Basically, when I press the gas pedal, I have to press it all the way to the floor for a second or two before the engine responds by roaring to life. If I press the pedal any less, the engine doesn't seem to rev at all. Do you guys think this is an issue with the cable needing to be tightened?

    After taking the car around the block a couple times, the engine will begin to stall on me when I stop. I'm not sure what's going on, but I'm thinking the engine is getting flooded?
    Last edited by Pat427; 09-05-2019 at 01:22 PM.
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  37. #312
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    There have been issues with the oval air cleaner and the Sniper system, basically RF interference. Try running without the air cleaner and see what happens.

  38. #313
    Papa's Avatar
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    Check that the blades in the throttle body are opening and closing in response to your throttle pedal and that nothing is binding in the cable.

    Does the engine respond if you actuate the throttle linkage by hand?

    Have you monitored the handheld to see what it thinks the throttle position is with the pedal to the floor/stop? It should read 85% or more. If it is lower, you need to adjust the linkage to get it into the proper range. Part of the setup is getting the idle set based on the IAC position and TPS reading and should be adjusted only when the engine is above 160 degrees. I recommend setting the idle to around 850 RPM. That should help with the stalling issue. This is all covered in the Sniper Quick Setup Instructions. You really want to follow the steps exactly.

    Dave
    Last edited by Papa; 09-05-2019 at 03:23 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  39. #314
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Check that the blades in the throttle body are opening and closing in response to your throttle pedal and that nothing is binding in the cable.

    Does the engine respond if you actuate the throttle linkage by hand?

    Have you monitored the handheld to see what it thinks the throttle position is with the pedal to the floor/stop? It should read 85% or more. If it is lower, you need to adjust the linkage to get it into the proper range. Part of the setup is getting the idle set based on the IAC position and TPS reading and should be adjusted only when the engine is above 160 degrees. I recommend setting the idle to around 850 RPM. That should help with the stalling issue. This is all covered in the Sniper Quick Setup Instructions. You really want to follow the steps exactly.

    Dave

    Thanks Dave,

    My engine and Sniper came already set up by my engine builder (they specifically told me not to mess with the Sniper set up as they had already done it)

    Yes, if I actuate the throttle linkage by hand, the engine will roar to life immediately.

    I'll try to mess with he throttle cable and see if I can tighten it up a little bit.
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  40. #315
    Papa's Avatar
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    Sounds like the cable adjustment is the issue. You want it so that the blades are closed when the pedal is in its rest position, and at least 85% open with the pedal pressed all the way. Your Sniper handheld will give you a readout of the throttle position by following the steps below:

    On the HOME SCREEN, select the MONITOR icon, then select the “Monitors” screen. You will see an icon named “Initial Startup”. Select this. With the key on and the engine off, these sensors should read as follows:

    - Engine RPM – This gauge should show “Stall!”, once you begin cranking the engine it will show actual engine RPM 
    - TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) – Should read 0. Slowly depress the throttle to wide open. It should read between 85 and 100% at wide open throttle. If it does not, please verify your throttle linkage is allowing full travel of the throttle arm.
    - MAP (Manifold Air Pressure Sensor) – Should read from 95-102. At high elevations it could read as low as 75. 
    - CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor) – reads engine temperature. 
    - IAC Position – See Idle Setting/Throttle Plate Setting section in this manual. 
    - Battery – Will read battery voltage. Should be 12.0 volts minimum.



    Dave
    Last edited by Papa; 09-06-2019 at 02:25 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  41. #316
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Sounds like the cable adjustment is the issue. You want it so that the blades are closed when the pedal is in its rest position, and at least 85% open with the pedal pressed all the way. Your Sniper handheld will give you a readout of the throttle position by following the steps below:

    On the HOME SCREEN, select the MONITOR icon, then select the “Monitors” screen. You will see an icon named “Initial Startup”. Select this. With the key on and the engine off, these sensors should read as follows:

    - Engine RPM – This gauge should show “Stall!”, once you begin cranking the engine it will show actual engine RPM 
    - TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) – Should read 0. Slowly depress the throttle to wide open. It should read between 85 and 100% at wide open throttle. If it does not, please verify your throttle linkage is allowing full travel of the throttle arm.
    - MAP (Manifold Air Pressure Sensor) – Should read from 95-102. At high elevations it could read as low as 75. 
    - CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor) – reads engine temperature. 
    - IAC Position – See Idle Setting/Throttle Plate Setting section in this manual. 
    - Battery – Will read battery voltage. Should be 12.0 volts minimum.



    Dave


    As always Dave, thank you for the detailed info, you have no idea how much I appreciate it!

    Cheers,

    Pat
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  42. #317
    Papa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat427 View Post
    As always Dave, thank you for the detailed info, you have no idea how much I appreciate it!

    Cheers,

    Pat
    Any time, Pat.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  43. #318
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Bent Lines

    I've been tinkering with my engine and noticed a fuel leak. I was able to see that it was coming from the rear passenger side of the car. I took off my rear passenger tire and inspected the area. Here's a picture of what the area USED to look like.


    The bends in the line were nice and I was very happy with how it looked.

    Howver, this is what it looks like now:




    Somehow the return line got bent. I have absolutely no idea how or when this happened, but I'm not real happy about it. There is a leak where the hard line mates with the red flexible line.

    It looks as though I'm going to have to replace the section of the hard line. I think I'll be able to do this with minimal problems (fingers crossed) as the access to the area is pretty good. I'm just more concerned about how this happened. I'm clueless.

    I'll keep ya'll posted.

    Pat
    Last edited by Pat427; 09-08-2019 at 10:18 AM.
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  44. #319
    Senior Member Pat427's Avatar
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    Fuel Lines

    Well, my bent fuel line has sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole and I wanted to ask the forum about. I've found a couple of threads that talk about using 3/8th inch supply line instead of the 5/16th lines that comes with the kit. Since I have a 427 engine, does anyone think that I need to make the change to a 3/8th inch supply line?

    Additionally, could this be the reason my engine seems to be lagging when I press the gas pedal?

    I'd rather make this switch now if it something that needs to be done.

    Thanks,
    Pat
    MK4-IRS, 427w, TKO-600

  45. #320
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    Hi Patrick. I’m Nick. Just a guest here but aspire to have a kit someday and have loved reading your trials and perseverance. I don’t know if this thread has died or you got outside help from the outstanding members here but I do think 5/16ths is a bit anemic. That said as long as your fuel pressure doesn’t drop off or your fuel pump doesn’t overheat even your fire breathing big block should survive on the 5/16ths. I have a small procharged 350 Chevy in my Camaro and it has a -8 an feed and return line just to be safe. If you wish to future proof 3/8ths change over now without your body final mounted may be the best aside from costing you more unintentional spending. People also use fuel logs or surge tank setups but that’s often to help not overwhelm your fuel pump output ability versus trying to provide fuel through a small hole. It may behove you to look up what cars from the factory like the dodge demons and svt mustangs use for fuel line diameter to make their huge power figures. It may be 5/16ths. Anyway this has run long and I wish you great luck with settling into your move and finding time to wrench. You’re killing it.

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