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Thread: Standard Brakes or Upgrade?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Slider's Avatar
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    Standard Brakes or Upgrade?

    Ok, more specific question. And I realize that it will come down to personal preference... but looking for perspectives that I can help to consider.

    I ordered the Coupe Complete kit... but I stuck with the standard brakes as that is what I have on the MKIV. They seem pretty good, but not phenomenal. Of course, it's 95% driver and 5% road course so the brake performance is really most important under normal daily driving conditions.

    However, i was going to put in a brake booster, because of my experience with the MKIV.

    But wondering now if I'm being silly in not making the investment in the bigger brakes from FF as an upgrade. The Booster kit is about $500, and the upgrade to the bigger Wilwoods is about $3,100. Is the $2,600 diff worth it? Any other options that I should be considering?
    BUILT WITH MY DAD! - MK4, 5.0 Coyote, TK0 600 with Mid-Shift, Hydraulic Clutch, Power Steering, Custom Built Stainless 4:1:4 Headers by "Stainless Headers", Dual-Rollbars, 15" Wheels, Foot Box Vents and Seat Heaters, Patriot Blue with Wimbledon White Stripes Kit arrived: June 2, 2012 - Driving: May 22, 2013
    BUILDING WITH MY DAD! - Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe, Gen3 Coyote, TKO 600, IRS, Hydraulic Clutch, PS, Stainless headers, 17" wheels, Race Seats, GPS Gauges Ordered 1-30-2019

  2. #2
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Are you buying the diff and knuckles or going salvage? I ask, because a lot of the salvage complete rear suspension have the OE brakes w/ it. They are what I am using. In the last 11 yrs I have had 3-4 different rear brake setups using various stock Ford parts, plus a GM metric caliper kit. The stock IRS brakes are the best of them all.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

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    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    For a car that isn't going to see a lot of serious track time I feel that the standard brakes with a good set of pads are more than adequate. Wilwoods on a street car are kind of like having 500 a horsepower dyno sheet...something to crow about at Cars & Coffee but not really useable. JMHO of course

    Jeff

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    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    For a car that isn't going to see a lot of serious track time I feel that the standard brakes with a good set of pads are more than adequate. Wilwoods on a street car are kind of like having 500 a horsepower dyno sheet...something to crow about at Cars & Coffee but not really useable. JMHO of course

    Jeff
    Hey Jeff. For clarification, I assume by "useable" you're telling the OP that whatever extra benefit they provide isn't meaningful in a street only build, e.g. standard brakes would stop just as well. As opposed to not useable meaning they don't preform well. I had stock Cobra PBR brakes on my first build (with power) and they worked very well. Since then have used Wilwoods and I've been happy with them too. I'm confident I'm not pushing them to the limit at all. But they sure are pretty. With bigger wheels (17's or 18's) the newer Mustang brakes are a great value though.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Hey Jeff. For clarification, I assume by "useable" you're telling the OP that whatever extra benefit they provide isn't meaningful in a street only build, e.g. standard brakes would stop just as well...
    You assume correctly Paul!

    Jeff

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  8. #6
    Paul2STL's Avatar
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    Slider,

    I think the boosted Cobra Mustang brakes are great. I have the 15 IRS stock brakes and 04 Cobra front calipers 93 mustang booster with Wilwood pedal assembly and brakes are great. I wouldn't think you need the Wilwood brakes unless you plan to track a lot. The Mustang calipers are designed to be boosted, without it they are not at their full potential. I don't think the extra $2600 is worth it in my opinion.
    MKIV #9122 Ordered kit 5/24/17 received kit 8/11/17 MK4 Base kit +,First Start 4/7/18, First Go-Cart 4/22/18, In gelcoat, licensed and driving 8/11/18. Coyote gen2, T-56, 2015 IRS 3.31, 17" Halibrand replicas w/Nitto NT555 G2, Withby Motorcars power brake kit W/Wilwood pedals, 04 Cobra front brakes, 15 Mustang rear brakes with mods, power steering. Paint Jeff Miller Da Bat, Lexus Spectra Blue Mica W/Toyota Silver Sky Metallic strips. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...Paul2STL-Build

  9. #7
    Papa's Avatar
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    I'm in the "want" vs. "need" camp. I was going back and forth when deciding on what options to get when ordering my kit. In the end, I decided to go with the Wilwood brakes because I knew if I didn't, I'd regret it later and end up paying more to put them on the car down the road. So, are they necessary? You decide. Also ask if the car is necessary? I can't think of a single practical justification for these cars, so the "want" part ruled the day for me. I'm absolutely certain that unless you are tracking the car, that the Mustang brakes designed to stop a car that is 1000 lbs. heavier will be more than enough to stop the coupe under most driving conditions.

    Dave
    Last edited by Papa; 02-07-2019 at 06:07 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
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  10. #8
    Senior Member Slider's Avatar
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    Thanks guys... Good to have a little affirmation of common sense right now. I have the brakes that come with the Standard Kit on the MKIV I built, and after adding a remote bias adjuster and dialing those brakes in, it stops great. I am planning to do the same thing on this Coupe, but was having a little bit of buyers remorse... With the comments above, I think I am now comfortable staying the course!
    BUILT WITH MY DAD! - MK4, 5.0 Coyote, TK0 600 with Mid-Shift, Hydraulic Clutch, Power Steering, Custom Built Stainless 4:1:4 Headers by "Stainless Headers", Dual-Rollbars, 15" Wheels, Foot Box Vents and Seat Heaters, Patriot Blue with Wimbledon White Stripes Kit arrived: June 2, 2012 - Driving: May 22, 2013
    BUILDING WITH MY DAD! - Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe, Gen3 Coyote, TKO 600, IRS, Hydraulic Clutch, PS, Stainless headers, 17" wheels, Race Seats, GPS Gauges Ordered 1-30-2019

  11. #9
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    Here's my take on this:

    I started with the 11" front disc ('99 Mustang) and the 2015 13" IRS OEM rear discs, no booster.

    I have a Wilwood bias adjuster on the dash (mechanical balance-bar adjusting knob).

    After bedding the pads, trying to lock-up all 4 tires at the same time required full forward bias on the knob. So I concluded that the fronts needed some help.

    I swapped out the 11' front setup for a 'Cobra' 13" setup- pieced together for about $350 and took about 3 hours to swap- including pressure bleeding. The most expensive parts were the Hawk HPS brake pads- calipers were about $90 each (re-man) and the rotors - get this- were $26 each. Used the same brake hoses as the 11' setup. Easy swap- now I'm no longer full-forward on the balance bar- does it matter? Not sure yet - first track day is in a week. Resistance to fade is also a concern.

    Some things to be said about the 13" setup: OEM- nothing fits as easy/well as just about anything 'OEM'. No wiring of the brakes disc to hats (I don't want another art project). $26 rotors- totally disposable. No 'pipe' fittings (not a fan of them on brake stuff, no need to change brake hoses).

    That said, I do have to remember when starting to drive this car that it's different- you do have to push the pedal with force.


    The 13" Cobra R Brembo setup is also intriguing if these don't work out at the track.

    Dave
    Gen III #17
    Last edited by Dave Tabor; 02-10-2019 at 01:22 AM.

  12. #10
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    These cars weigh little more than a supermodel with a little 289 they managed 200 mph. You can afford to skimp on power don’t skimp on brakes. The difference of a foot or two on the track or more likely a 30 mph zone, can mean the difference between spending zero $ and another big pile of it. Then how much did you save? How fast it goes isn’t the point, it’s going to be fast no matter what you power it with but stopping short of hitting someone or something is. Fly Marines ��

  13. #11
    Papa's Avatar
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    Again, I don't believe Wilwoods are a necessity, but good breaking is. This reminds me of the recent AT&T Wireless commercial where the mechanic says, "If the brakes don't stop it, something will."
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  14. #12
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    The right pads are the key. Breeze has some EBC that apparently work well. I happened to start w/ Hawk HPS so have stayed w/ them. For quite a few years I ran HP+ in the back for more grip because, like Dave above I would otherwise need to run the bias full rear. I put HPS in the rear OE 2015 IRS calipers to start because compound selection was limited. Over the last 1.5 yrs I have installed HP+ front and rear. Car stops extremely well and the effort is maybe 10% more than my 2011 Tacoma pickup truck. These dust more than I would like so I use this on the wheels which actually helps.
    http://www.armorall.com/products/whe...dust-repellent
    I also bought a tiny shop vac w/ a brush hose end. This is my dedicated wheel dust remover. Mine is not wall mounted.
    https://www.sears.com/craftsman-port...6&blockType=G6
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  15. #13
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    `IMO Power brakes with the kits standard brakes is the best option. I have built one with wilwood and without with manual. Wilwood not worth the cost as far as performance in my book. The 2 I built with P/B were the best, Imo.

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