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Thread: Stainless and other hardware swaps

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    Stainless and other hardware swaps

    As Iíve read through various build threads I run across mentions of swapping nuts and bolts out for stainless or hardened hardware. What are the items you can think off that should be swapped? Hoping to make a list now so I can note them in my manual when they come up in the build. Thanks!
    MKIV #9542 Complete Kit, Coyote, IRS - Delivered - 2-19-19
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    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Any steel hardware that has the black ‘oiled’ finish, I replaced as it begins to rust after a while. Fuel tank has some. Pedal box and the front of the driver side foot box has a few more. Front suspension was swapped out for all Grade 8 as well as the power steering and transmission/clutch bolts.
    MKIV Roadster - #9380 - Complete Kit - Delivered 7/17/18
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    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
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    There are no items that 'should' be swapped. Be aware most SS bolts and nuts are NOT as strong, and they WILL gall when assembled. The suspension bolts provided with the kit are the correct size and strength need, zero need to change them, same for the engine and tranny bolts. The factory knew what was correct when they build the millions of cars on the road.
    Last edited by rich grsc; 02-04-2019 at 04:39 PM.

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich grsc View Post
    There are no items that 'should' be swapped. Be aware most SS bolts and nuts are NOT as strong, and they WILL gaul when assembled. The suspension bolts provided with the kit are the correct size and strength need, zero need to change them, same for the engine and tranny bolts. The factory knew what was correct when they build the millions of cars on the road.
    Agree with this comment 100%. No massive swaps needed. Don't be swapping out suspension bolts unless they just plain don't fit, and then I'd be talking to Factory Five. For the most part, they are not the usual sizes or types available at your local hardware or big box store. They include flange heads, lock nuts, metric plus SAE, usually high strength, etc. Your average hardware store SS is not even as strong as grade 5, so be very sparing on where you use it. I've noticed Factory Five is including more SS hardware than they used to. Quite a few button head SS screws in my last Roadster and Coupe build. But they're typically smaller sizes (5/16 or 3/8) and suited for where they go. Any time SS is used, I dab a bit of anti-seize on the threads during assembly. They will occasionally gall and seize if you don't. And usually at the worst possible time. When that happens, nearly impossible to get apart without damage or destruction to something. I do use my share of SS for small stuff around the interior, hood scoop, etc. I like my bling as much as the next guy. Just be selective. Those black oxide bolts I agree do start showing rust on the heads. An alternative to swapping them out, that I've done frequently, is clean them up, wrap a piece of masking tape around the threads, and hit the heads with some satin black chassis paint before assembly. I use paint from Eastwood that seems to work very well, but there are others. Looks good and doesn't rust.
    Last edited by edwardb; 02-04-2019 at 10:11 AM.
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    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    Like others have stated -- SS fasteners are typically not as strong and tend to gall and should be assembled with anti-seize or at least a lubricant. The austenitic SS fasteners commonly available in hardware and auto parts stores have a significantly lower tensile strength than high-strength carbon steel fasteners typically used in automotive. They are more suited to light duty bolting such as holding trim pieces. As for the black oxide fasteners, you can paint them or even easier, use Sharkhide on them to prevent rusting.

    If you are not well versed in fastener technology be cautious of swapping fasteners as the use of the wrong grade or type in critical applications can lead to catastrophic failure.
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    Thanks for the responses. Exactly why I wanted to put this out there before acting on anything. There are several builds in the early stages and I hope others read this thread as well as to not make a mistake. I like the paint or Sharkhide idea to prevent rust.
    MKIV #9542 Complete Kit, Coyote, IRS - Delivered - 2-19-19
    1965 Mustang Convertible 4v 289
    Build Thread HERE

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    I highly recommend reading "Prepare to Win" by Carrol Smith. Available on Amazon. Great reference for fasteners, plumbing, alignment, etc.

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    My Roadster had to be inspected by an automotive engineer before I could get it registered for the road. The automotive engineer required that all suspension bolts be upgraded to grade 8. Not sure that grade 8 is better than the grade 5 bolts for suspension fasteners, but that is what he required.

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    Senior Member Avalanche325's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver_WT View Post
    My Roadster had to be inspected by an automotive engineer before I could get it registered for the road. The automotive engineer required that all suspension bolts be upgraded to grade 8. Not sure that grade 8 is better than the grade 5 bolts for suspension fasteners, but that is what he required.
    Obviously grade 8 has higher tensile and yield strength. However, there is a lot of argument out there about grade 5 vs grade 8 in suspensions. Some argue that grade 8 is too brittle for the constant duty cycling in a suspension system. Others say that is a myth propagated by the hotrod crowd.

    FFRs are cruising and racing around all over the place with the stock hardware. That automotive engineer wasted your time and money. He was probably just doing a CYA for himself by making you go to the "highest grade" so you can't come back if something failed. People tend to think that over-engineering is a good thing. Over-engineering is actually poor engineering.

    Stainless is great for show type things like the hood scoop and removable visible panels. Not great for strength, so never as a replacement for suspension or structural. No matter how much anti-seize you use, one will gall once in a while. I had them in my sidepipe hangers which does also add heat to the equation. I had to cut one out of four just recently.

    I agree that anything written by Carrol Smith is worth a read even 20+ years later.

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    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
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    The shear capacity of a 1/2"(shock bolt) grade 5 bolt is 14730#, a grade 8 is 17870#. You have 4 shocks, so the load at each shock is 1/4 of your cars weight, 625# on a 2500# car. Explain why you need a grade 8? A grade 5 is 230% safety factor, you'll ripe the frame apart before the bolt breaks. I have to agree with this statement

    FFRs are cruising and racing around all over the place with the stock hardware. That automotive engineer wasted your time and money. He was probably just doing a CYA for himself by making you go to the "highest grade" so you can't come back if something failed. People tend to think that over-engineering is a good thing. Over-engineering is actually poor engineering

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