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Thread: Intro/Planning Thread

  1. #1
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    Intro/Planning Thread

    This is starting to feel more and more like a matter of when and not if, so I felt it was time to post a planning thread, and see what others think. First, I want to apologize to "Desert Cobra"; I swear I didn't see your user name until after I registered mine or else, I may have tried to be a bit more original.

    Okay, so short version of my background - I think building a car sounds awesome. It'd mainly be a weekend cruiser, but I think track events and car shows are great and would probably try out some (but that's not the main purpose of the car and really shouldn't influence too many decisions).

    Slightly longer version - Let me start upfront by saying I have little mechanical experience. From time to time, the "sports car bug" has crept up in my life, and I've never seriously considered it - mostly because I couldn't see spending that much on a weekend toy that I could only use a handful of months out of the year. Then life moved us to a climate that is sort of a roadsters' paradise, and the idea of buying a nicer car became quite a bit more reasonable. Then one day, my wife, who normally doesn't notice cars, points out a cobra a few blocks from our house and excitedly asked me what on earth was that? I said it was an old cobra and while I don't know that much about it, I'm pretty sure most of the ones you see on the street are kit cars that people build in their garage. She was somewhat in disbelief. Anyway, I didn't think much about it for a week and then it kind of hit me - why haven't you ever looked deeper into Cobras? The more I read, the more I liked it. And the more it seemed feasible. I bought Brian Smith's "How to Build Cobra Kit Cars". The picture is becoming more and more clear. Plus, it's something that I would build and make my own. It'll last a lifetime, and everyone who comes down and visits will love cruising the desert highways. When I was a kid, if I had a dream a car, it was the Viper. It was cool to me that Dodge had a car that people drooled over like exotic European cars. The connection from the Cobra to the Viper isn't lost on me. It is starting to make more and more sense. As mentioned already, I recently moved out of state. I'm eager to start a big project, and I might get to be a part of new events and maybe even meet a few new people (car guys tend to be good people).

    I'm going to go through and post my build plans in the next couple of posts. I'm hoping to get some feedback or confirmation. I still don't have a great sense for timing, if I do pull the trigger.

  2. #2
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    Engine/Drive train

    I have gone back and forth on the engine choice about a dozen times. Basically, it's a choice between a small block Ford and a Coyote. The first half of my research I was strongly leaning towards SBF. I love the classic look. I love the "lub dub dub" idle. You can dial up more power than I would ever need. It's just sweet. Plus, while it's not actually the engine used in the originals, I've thought the 351 Windsor was cool ever since a kid in high school pulled a 289 out of a 65 mustang and put in a 351w. The fact that you can bore and stroke them to the magical 427 ci displacement? I'm floored. And the Coyote has the following disadvantages - it takes up pretty much the whole engine bay, you have a lot of wiring (and possibility tuning) to deal with and while it might start quite a bit cheaper than say a 427w, it requires some extras (including that tune) that greatly reduce the savings. Lastly, the Coyote is such a modern looking engine and it's really a stark difference from the car. It's not that it looks "bad" per se. In new Mustangs it looks sweet, but it just comes across as out of place.

    But after reading thread after thread of happy Coyote owners, I started digging into it more. It's powerful, responsive and will "act" like a modern engine with modern EFI. The looks have grown on me (though I still don't know what they were thinking with the Gen III cover). I am 95% in the Coyote direction, but if SBF guys wanted a last chance to convince me otherwise, I'm all ears...

    Coincidence?
    pri-2017-ford-performance-teases-gen3-coyote-swap-support-0003.jpg rabbit_pancake.png

    For the transmission, I don't see why I wouldn't got with a TKO600, EXCEPT... the T-56 isn't a huge step up in price. I don't plan on building any sort of drag car that the TKO couldn't handle, but I am curious how the 6 speed feels vs the TKO. Has anyone with the TKO wished they'd have gone with the T-56? I know EdwardB went with the T-56 on his gen 3 coupe whereas he did the TKO on the anniversary build, but I don't think I can put too much stock in that since I think he changed out gears on the TKO anyway. I guess any thoughts here would be appreciated.

    As for the rear end, I'm almost certainly going IRS. Too many posts of people saying good things to not go that way. It sounds like before the 2015 mustang IRS you kind of had to choose between comfort of an IRS or performance of the 3 link, but the new IRS is the best of both worlds and a no brainer. That said, the 8.8" 3.55 differential and knuckles is a couple hundred buck cheaper not purchased through the kit. However, right now with the spring sale, buying the "in kit" option makes the most sense.
    Last edited by Desert Snake; 03-12-2019 at 10:26 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member SSNK4US's Avatar
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    Welcome! Welcome!! Welcome!!! You will find this forum an unbelievable wealth of knowledge. And a people out here are also unbelievable. And a complete scope of people from the no, and I mean pretty much zero mechanical background to people who do this for a living. From Bankers with a warped sense of what should power one of these (ford being the norm) (dont worry you’ll meet his dark sided ness and a great guy too) to engineers that will carry out pi to the last digit. (2.7 trillion is the last count) and everything in between. So many variables of what to build. Start reading some “build” threads and see which way you want to go. Keeping in mind for example that for ever 3 link build you’ll find 10 irs builds and vice versa. You definitely have your research cut out for you lol
    Ask LOT of questions!!!! Read LOTS of stuff!!! Big sale going on right now.... one of the biggest Dave does or has done in a while. So price wise it’s a good time.
    Just my 2¢

    Welcome and enjoy!!!!!!

    Kurt
    If everything seems under control, you’re just not going fast enough....

    Build thread

    MKIV complete kit # 9395 delivered 7/31/18

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    Kit Options

    I'll go through these more rapid fire

    16613 - Powder coated chassis – Absolutely, makes a ton of sense.
    16598 - 2015 Mustang-based Independent Rear Suspension Kit with KONI coil-overs, tubular control arms, and CV axles - already discussed but seems like a no brainer
    12070 - Body with cut-outs of side pipes, body mounts, lighting accessories, gas cap, roll-bars, windshield posts, and side louver openings -I'm hoping to do as little cutting and fabbing as possible
    16213 - Upgrade: Leather Roadster Seats - I like the classic leather seats, I don't think I'm interested in the racing seats
    16138 - Power steering kit (requires pump and bracket) - Again, most make this sound like a no brainer. It did look like War Eagle Scott had some issues with his, but from what I've seen in the forum that looks more like an abnomally than the norm
    16004 - Vintage Factory Five/Smiths Style GPS Gauges (mph) - This is an example of scope creep. When I first started trying to get together a pricing estimate, I thought the modern gauges look fine and this was an easy way to save money. Now, after seeing so many nice dashes, I can't imagine not having the vintage ones.
    14865 - Vintage Halibrand Replica Wheels, 17” X 9” Front and 17” X 10.5” Rear - I either want 17 or 18 and I've read that, in person, they aren't that different.
    15330 - Upgrade: Mk4 Polished Stainless Bumpers. Authentic front and rear full hoop and over-riders - Here's a questions. If I want a bumper on back and over riders only on the front, can I delete the front bumper from the order?

    The following fall into options I want but haven't price shopped or compared with what's out in the market at all. Given similar price and quality, I'd rather give my $ to FF5 but I haven't looked at all for other options:
    12049 - Wind Wings
    12042 - Sun Visors
    15549 – Vintage Wiper Kit - Actually, I have read fairly negative reviews of the wipers but there also doesn't seem to be a solid alternative. It's too bad because they aren't cheap.
    12469 - Brake Duct Wire Mesh, preformed
    15101 - Upgrade: Chrome Driver Side Roll-Bar
    15105 - Passenger Side Chrome Roll-Bar
    15158 - Roll Bar Grommets
    15659 - Assembled Side Louver set

    For the Sway Bars - These are relatively inexpensive, but I gather the ride is pretty stiff already. I don't think I need* them unless I'm tracking it, but I think I would build it without sway bars and just maintain the option to add them later (is there a bracket that needs installed if I were to want to add these later and if so, is the bracket something extra I would need to order?)

    16039 - Vinyl Dash with Glovebox molded to fit Factory Five Vintage Gauges - I believe I want the already molded dash but I want a heater/AC. I'll discuss this more in a bit

    I'm pretty sure the optional heater is not what I want, and I believe the optional EFI pump is also not going to work (especially if I want to do a coyote build)

    15635 - Center Dash Support - I have some ideas how to build around this. I think it'll be fun.

    15760 - 14” Leather Steering Wheel Upgrade - I like the leather wheel
    16237 - 2015 Mustang IRS 13” Rear Brake Kit - My thoughts towards the brakes are something like this - Wilwoods are probably awesome and look sweet but are pretty expensive. The mustang brakes are designed to stop a car that weighs 1000+ pounds more. I think the standard brakes are more than plenty but if someone has other opinions, I'd love to hear them.

    (edit) I forgot to add the Koni adjustable shocks seem like an option I'd only need if tracking, which again, I'm not.
    Last edited by Desert Snake; 03-12-2019 at 10:07 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member SSNK4US's Avatar
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    LOL love the rabbit!!!!!
    People will swear by any and all of your thoughts you just added.
    If you look at some of the coyote builds and the painted and matching engine covers your mouth just drops and and you say OMG that’s just beautiful!!! Personal preference. I’m small block with a cam. A friend of mine has a 427 and loves it. But more $ our budget. We have a v8 M3 with lots of plastic under the hood and a factory 8,300 redline. After 40 seconds of warm up it idles as smooth as my Yukon. I’m old and old school so I need to hear some camage lol
    I have another friend build one (both live in my town) that would do nothing other than a Coyote.
    Is there a right or wrong answer? NOPE. You’ve already found Edwardb.... he’s done them both ways...
    Talk you into either or???? The ultimate decision is yours. You’ve already stated some whys for both ways.
    TAKE YOUR TIME!!! Gather info. No quick rash actions

    Kurt
    If everything seems under control, you’re just not going fast enough....

    Build thread

    MKIV complete kit # 9395 delivered 7/31/18

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    Options from other Vendors

    Engine bay battery box, Herb's doors and the auto off turn signal are no brainers

    While heaters and ACs are somewhat controversial, the heated seats seem to be universally liked and not expensive or that difficult to install.

    I am curious if anyone has any experience with aftermarket radiator fans. Again, I'm in the desert and would prefer to not have to worry about heat.

    I'm strongly leaning towards Forte's hydro clutch mod as well, but I read (actually it was an EdwardB post) that the hydro doesn't push any easier but is still preferred I wasn't sure. If someone could chime in with opinions on the hydro clutch, I'd greatly appreciate it.

    I really want either Quiet pipes or Gas-Ns. It's hard to tell without having heard them in person, but I'm leaning GasN given the overwhelmingly positive things people say (can side pipes be "deleted" from an order?). Another thing in GasN's favor is I'm concerned that I haven't seen HP numbers on quiet pipes and posts like this one scare me a bit.

    Okay and now for the more interesting conversation. I know radios/AC/heaters have been discussed a lot on here. I'll start with the radio. Radios and cars go together for me. It's hard to imagine not wanting one. I know the cars are loud, I know the wind and road noise is loud, but it still "feels wrong". Plus, I love the looks of a clean radio install and have the perfect excuse and opportunity to put in something that looks and sound great. That all said, I'm starting to lean towards a "cubby hole" mod and a Bluetooth speaker. I haven't decided yet, but I'm leaning that way.

    Now, the AC/Heater conversation. I know that the heater and AC aren't what you'd expect in a normal car and I know that's reduced even further by the fact that you have an open top, but what about soft top owners? I think the softtop looks great and while I'd drive it as a roadster as much as I can, when it's summer the idea of keeping the sun off of you while the AC works sounds great. I figure anything that makes it more drivable on more days is a good thing. There are options like north race cars http://www.northracecars.com/AirCon.html or whitby https://www.whitbymotorcars.com/prod...-conditioning/ that look pretty appealing (I think both of those are "forum vendors" so I hope I'm okay to post. The fact the whitby one just says "call us" and doesn't have a price makes me scared they are currently out of stock but I'm not buying this thing that soon, so maybe that's okay.) So, I guess my questions are:
    1) Does anyone have a heater/AC with a softtop? If so, am I overselling it in my mind or is it really a viable option?
    2) Is there room for heater/AC unit, wiper and power steering? What if you have a coyote? What if you buy a firewall that's been bumped out? Does the firewall mod even fit with a coyote? (okay that was 3 questions in 1 )
    3) Can you still use the FF5 pre cut dash? I don't expect the glovebox to still work, but I am more confident in my ability to come up with a solution for how to pipe the heater and hide it than I am in my ability to hide my mistakes on the dash.

    One final thought... My biggest concerns going into this whole thing are 1) wiring. It scares me but I think if I go slow, I should be fine. 2) interior. I want the car to look professional... again, going slow. I realize that I won't be able to "cookbook" everything (especially if I include any mods), but I think it's best to take the approach of - "something is going to go wrong, it's okay, fix it" and "progress is the most important thing. Do something every day, even if it's small."

    Alright, that's everything for now. Again, I don't have a timeline but I wanted to get a better gameplan before I start slot a time that it would be best to take on such a project.

    Thanks!

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    Options from other Vendors

    Unfortunately, my last post was eaten by the forum (maybe I was going too fast?). I'll try to recreate it.

    The for sure need items are Russ tompson turn signals, the Herb doors, heated seats and breeze front battery box.

    The forte hydro clutch would probably also be on that list but some of what I've read is that it doesn't really push any easier than the cable clutch, but it's still better? Any thoughts on the pros and cons of the hydraulic clutch would be appreciated.

    I definitely want aftermarket sidepipes (can I delete the FF5 pipes from my order?). Probably either GasN or Quiet pipes. Right now, I'd say GasN since the forum universally seems to love them. Plus, I'm concerned about quiet pipes HP loss. See this

    Now for the "starting to seem less likely but still want" option. I'd like a radio. The thought of car without a radio is hard to wrap my head around. I love having a system that's a clean install and looks and sounds great. I think cruising or even listening to it parked sounds like a blast and I'll probably never have this kind of opportunity to put a nice radio in a car again (I'm not taking the body off a car to install speakers). All that said, I get that it's a roadster and loud one. I'm starting to think the "cubby hole" mod with a Bluetooth speaker may be best... Still haven't decided.

    Okay, now for the controversial one. I want a heater and an AC. I know.. I know.. I've read all the reviews. I get it. The unit isn't going to perform like a modern AC or heater, and even if it did, the overall effectiveness is pretty limited in an open top roadster, BUT... what about those with softtops? I love the looks of the FF5 softtop and while it's pricy, I would eventually get it. While I would drive it as a roadster as often as possible, when the sun gets brutal, but that buddy is in town from out of state and HAS to go for a ride, throwing on the top and turning on the AC sounds great. And there are a couple places that sell heater/AC units that look pretty slick to install (and claim that you can still fit the wiper motor).

    So my questions are:
    1) does anyone have experience with the soft top and a heater/AC? If so, am I way off on my assumptions about the soft top making the heater/ac substantially more effective?
    2) would a heater/AC and wipers fit with a coyote? I know I won't be "cook booking" but hiding duct work sounds a lot easier than other mods I've seen.

    One last thought, the two parts that scare me the most are wiring and interior. Interior because it's what everyone sees and I don't want to spend X dollars and Y hours building a car that looks, well, homemade... My thoughts on both are just go slow and take your time, accept the fact now that something is going to go wrong and just deal with it when it happens.

    (edit) it looks like the forum went ahead and posted my first post anyway. I'll try to combine the two posts later so this thread makes more sense.
    Last edited by Desert Snake; 03-12-2019 at 10:48 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Welcome! You've put a lot of thought into this already. Random thoughts...
    - You said something about me changing gears in the TKO for my #8674 build. That's not the case. It's a standard 0.64 final drive TKO (TCET5008). I do have a Liberty Gears shift mod in it. But the ratios are pure stock. The Coyote + 0.64 TKO + 3.55 rear end is a proven and excellent combination.
    - The T-56 will only fit in the Roadster with IRS. The Coyote helps a little because it's shorter. But still only recommended with IRS. But just be aware it's not a direct fit. Some minor modifications are needed. Not a big deal, but you mention little/no mechanical experience. The T-56 also requires a QuickTime bell housing (the only option and it's not cheap) plus the T-56 has a reverse lockout feature you have to deal with. So IMO you should proceed cautiously here. This light of a car doesn't miss the 2nd overdrive the T-56 provides. Yes I put a T-56 in my Coupe build. But there were several reasons. For a Roadster, I still recommend the TKO.
    - Hopefully you're clear that the IRS option doesn't provide the IRS center section and knuckles/hubs. It does provide the frame differences, the suspension pieces, all the hardware, etc. But not those components. Factory Five sells them. Or they're also available at any Ford Performance dealer plus others.
    - I'm a huge supporter of the Coyote in these builds. Having had both (SBF and Coyote) it's hands down my preference. Yes it's more wiring but it's all sorted and once done it's done. And yes it's a tight fit, but you won't touch it once it's in. Oil changes is about it. Changing plugs (every 100K miles...) is through the heads in the top. Try changing plugs in a 351 block in these cars. Tuning isn't something to be concerned about. Yes it's an added cost but it's also well proven. Nothing you need to be afraid of. Bottom line it just runs and runs great. Mild or wild. Your choice.
    - I get that the Coyote doesn't look authentic. Or sound too authentic either. But the response I've had, and mine has been shown a lot, is incredibly positive. People love the modern engine in a classic car. But you have to decide what works for you.
    - Sway bars probably aren't needed for a street driven car. I have them on mine because they came with the anniversary package. They don't make the ride any harsher. The ride in these cars, especially with the IRS, is pretty amazing. Stiff, yes, but not harsh. If you can get a chance to ride in one, do it. I think you'll be surprised.
    - 17 or 18 inch wheels. You're right, don't look a lot different. I'm on my second build with the 18's and have gotten to like the look. Tires cost more for the 18's. But watch what brakes you choose. Not everything fits in the 17's.
    - To be brutally honest, I'm not a huge fan of the pre-made dash. It's all plastic and in my opinion a little on the cheap/flimsy side. But that's strictly my opinion and many have used them and are happy with them. Just be aware of what it is.
    - Heat and A/C... Hmm, for not having mechanical experience you're diving into the deep end here. Heat yes. A/C adds quite a bit of complexity. FYI, you'll likely not get heat + A/C + the full size glove box on that pre-made dash to all fit together. Just not enough space.
    - For heat, wipers, etc., the Coyote doesn't take any more space than other engine choices.
    - Having done a build and a high end stereo that I never used, I'm not a fan of those either. For my tastes it just had to be too loud to be heard, which wasn't enjoyable and proved to be a major distraction. My recommendation if you have to have tunes? Use a bluetooth speaker and your phone. Lots of great sounding options out there.

    Those are my initial thoughts after reading your posts. Come on it! It's a blast.
    Last edited by edwardb; 03-12-2019 at 10:43 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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    Where do you live?

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    It sounds like your looking at many of the options I selected. On you engine choice, have you considered a SBF with EFI? Pretty simple to do now with Holley Sniper and others. Also, I recommend you attend the build school at Mott in Michigan. You will have a chance to see many of the options and the instructors will provide the positive and negative for each one. I should have done it before I ordered as I would probably make some changes. There will always be another sale so don't rush the choices to save a little now. I should have spent more time selecting options and I could have saved more money. Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAMRobAZ View Post
    Where do you live?
    Should have mentioned that. I'm in the Phoenix area.

  12. #12
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkp200 View Post
    It sounds like your looking at many of the options I selected. On you engine choice, have you considered a SBF with EFI? Pretty simple to do now with Holley Sniper and others.
    A 351 can be stroked to 408 using a stock block. A 427 needs an aftermarket block which is significantly more expensive. I am really happy w/ my 408. I have a hard top that is always on the car so I think your idea of heat/AC w/ a soft top is excellent. Be sure you can unzip the rear window because a top w/o any windows makes great shade and is comfortable to about 90 deg. A 5 speed is plenty in a 2400# car. Ear buds and a phone for tunes. I prefer the stock aluminum dash. I am pretty sure the FFR rad and fan will do the job. Others will confirm I think. One thing I do is, when I know it's hot and I will be in traffic, I turn the fan on and leave it on. It seems it's easier to keep the engine at Y deg than to let it go up to X deg, fan comes on, cools it to y deg, cycling constantly. I retro fitted the 2015 IRS and used the OEM brakes. This is one advantage that is a double. Buy a salvage yard rear suspension assembly and make sure it comes w/ the brakes. Less expensive for the parts you need and free rear brakes.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

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    I see you’re going with the standard brakes vs. wildwood (which I did as well). You may want to consider some kind of booster (vacuum or hydro). Not that it’s 100% needed, but you’re going with a fairly modern setup and feel ( coyote, irs, power steering etc...) so a softer pedal may complement your other choices and feel more oem.

  14. #14
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Couple more thoughts after reviewing your posts and my other response:
    - Cable vs. hydraulic clutch. I've had both and you're right. I personally didn't notice a night and day difference in effort. Maybe a little but it's pretty subtle. But I've still done hydraulic on all but my first build. Why? Cables can break and if not routed properly can be adversely affect by heat. The Wilwood pedal box is designed for hydraulic, and even though the latest version from Factory Five seems OK, I'm just not a fan of modding it to be cable driven. On my Coupe build I'm trying a hydraulic throw-out bearing instead of the slave cylinder setup on the clutch arm like the Forte system. I have the Coupe build and the Roadster sitting side-by-side in the garage. The Roadster has the Forte setup. Both with the same exact Centerforce clutch. The lower effort of the hydraulic throw-out bearing in the Coupe is noticeable in this case. But the Coupe isn't done yet so no driving. Just a little back and forth in the garage and driveway. It's something to consider but has its own risks. So not going to necessarily recommend yet. In fact you'll probably get more negative reactions than positive. I suspect because it hasn't been tried much and a problem means pulling the engine or trans. But just throwing it out there.
    - Agree 100% on the recommendation to do heated seats. They're an easy add to the stock Roadster seats (leather or vinyl) and adds a nice measure of comfort. My better half especially likes them.
    - Add a shroud to the standard Factory Five radiator and supplied cooling fan and you shouldn't have any trouble. If you do go Coyote, it's a cool running engine and does a great job of controlling temps.
    - I agree the look of the interior does a lot for the appearance of the car and can keep it from that "kit car" look. Pay attention to details. Make sure all your gauges and switches match. Door cards help give a finished look. Having the supplied carpet edged in certain places, especially long the door sills, also makes it look a lot more finished IMO.
    - I'm also a huge fan of Gas-N pipes. Super quality that lasts with a more pleasant sound. Not quiet necessarily, but easier on the ears. You should be wearing ear plugs with these cars any time you're riding open top anyway. Wind and road noise is a big deal and no type of pipe will change that. I wouldn't overthink power loss with whatever pipes you're considering. The engine choices you've mentioned so far, for street use, will be more than you can use anyway. These things are rockets with just a few hundred HP.
    Last edited by edwardb; 03-13-2019 at 07:59 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  15. #15
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    I'm pretty much on board with edwardb's thoughts but will hit your highpoints with opinions (and we all know that everybody has those!):
    ---PS, absolutely!
    ---T-56, 2 overdrives are not necessary and it's 2.66 first gear is a little long with a 3.55 rear end.
    ---Bars are not necessary for a street driven IRS car
    ---Neither are the Wilwoods unless you just want the bling
    ---Heat and AC can and have been done in Coyote roadsters. My buddy Henry Renaud did both along with a premium soft top in one of the many roadsters he's built. In fact the car is for sale so you could just buy it and save yourself all the trouble
    ---I've been stranded in daily drivers by failures of both cable and hydraulic clutches so pick your poison! Not sold on the hydraulic TOB yet.
    ---Radio? Really is personal choice. Not for me, and of all the cars I've done for customers only two got sounds.
    ---If anybody tells you that a Coyote doesn't look good show them this one that's in one of my customer's cars



    Not to be discouraging by any means but as Paul (edwardb) mentioned some of your plans or wish list goals are rather ambitious for a first timer however if you do your planning and research as well as take your time you'll do fine!

    Good luck!

    Jeff

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    I'm in the same boat. Starting to get my garage cleaned up, making sure I have most of the tools I will need. Problem is I just bought another Harley, but it should not be too big of a problem. I can either store boxes and the body at close by storage garage or in my attic. I've never done anything like this before, so I'm a bit nervous. I want this to go as easy as possible (I know what everyone is thinking :roll eyes) so I think I have decided on an engine/transmission combo already. I think I'm going with a 347 Blue Print engine with TKO transmission. This is supposed to be a project for my 26 year old son and myself, but he is a busy professional like myself. I would like to do some track events after someone teaches me how to drive the car, but mostly for weekend drives and meets to make friends, but it will be a drivers car. I will probably pull the trigger at the beginning of next year for tax purposes. Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

  18. #17
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Welcome! Like you I had minimal experience working on cars. By taking my time and calling in help when I got stuck, I built a car that looks and sounds beautiful (even without body work or paint), and performs magnificently.

    If you can find a local mentor that will help a lot; CraigS lives close by so it was always good to bounce ideas off him. Plus he was able to let me know when I was worrying about something that wouldn't really matter versus a real issue.

    F5 was very easy to work with when customizing my order. I eliminated pipes, seats, & some other items. In retrospect, I wish I'd substituted the blank aluminum dash for the pre-cut one. Making my own custom dash was one of the most fun projects associated with the build.

    Cheers,


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

  19. #18
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    If anybody tells you that a Coyote doesn't look good show them this one that's in one of my customer's cars



    Jeff
    That's just crazy. Stunning work. Looks like I need to up my game. In all seriousness (not that I'm nitpicking) the MAF sensor should be on the front of the tube not the back. No doubt done that way partly because the wiring is neater, which I understand. But is recommended to be on the outside of the curve where it will get a better and more consistent signal. I was talking to the Ford Performance guys quite a bit when I sat with them during Autorama a couple weeks ago. They said the number one issue affecting Coyote crate motor performance is the non-stock cold air intake and getting the proper signal from the MAF sensor. Which, according to them, is highly tuned to match the stock air intake. Also confirmed that's one of the main reasons a custom tune improves how it runs. They said it's even more important with the Gen 3 Coyote. Oh good. FWIW.
    Last edited by edwardb; 03-13-2019 at 11:20 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  20. #19
    Gordon Levy's Avatar
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    You might want to come out and see a few cars and I can definitely answer a ton of questions for you. There isn't much we haven't done to one of these.
    Go Fast Part and tech Specialist [email protected]
    http://www.facebook.com/levyracing www.levyracing.com
    99/2000 NASA PSO Champion-2005 west coast FFR challenge series Champions
    Sponsor Tony B's 2007 ST2 National Championship
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    Completed over 215 FFR builds in the last 23 years and still counting

  21. #20
    DavidW's Avatar
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    Welcome and I look forward to your build.

    Remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

  22. #21
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    Great. I’m in Chandler. I’m driving to texas this weekend to get my unpainted Roadster. There are a lot of Cobra owners in the Valley and they have get togethers all the time. Mine won’t be registered for a month, but you are welcome to come over and look at mine. Rob

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snake View Post
    Should have mentioned that. I'm in the Phoenix area.

  23. #22
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    That's just crazy. Stunning work. Looks like I need to up my game. In all seriousness (not that I'm nitpicking) the MAF sensor should be on the front of the tube not the back. No doubt done that way partly because the wiring is neater, which I understand. But is recommended to be on the outside of the curve where it will get a better and more consistent signal. I was talking to the Ford Performance guys quite a bit when I sat with them during Autorama a couple weeks ago. They said the number one issue affecting Coyote crate motor performance is the non-stock cold air intake and getting the proper signal from the MAF sensor. Which, according to them, is highly tuned to match the stock air intake. Also confirmed that's one of the main reasons a custom tune improves how it runs. They said it's even more important with the Gen 3 Coyote. Oh good. FWIW.
    Can't argue with what the Ford guys have found. This one still runs clean and hard...if memory serves somewhere around 445HP at the wheels after tune. I know I couldn't hook it up through 3 gears!

    Jeff

  24. #23
    Straversi's Avatar
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    Welcome to the fun. If you think these decisions are tough, wait until you have to pick a paint color.

    You are asking all of the right questions and if you make your decisions to please yourself, you can't go wrong. I went the Coyote route and dressed it up with an aftermarket aluminum intake manifold. Pros and cons to that decision but I love it. First time I went to a cars and coffee a guy asks if its a 427. I answer, "no its a Coyote" and he says, "awesome I love big blocks". Go with what makes YOU happy.

    You will be able to produce great results, even as a first timer. Good advice I was given it that most of the work that people notice is done after the car comes back from paint. Exactly the same time when you run out of patience and want to get it on the road. Stay patient through the final details and you will have a car you can be proud of.

    Keep us posted.

    -Steve
    MK IV #8901 - Complete kit, Coyote, TKO-600, IRS. Ordered 5/23/16, Delivered 7/14/16, First Start 8/13/17, First Go-Kart 10/22/17, Registered and Completed 10/18/18. Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...V-Coyote-Build Graduation Thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-Roadster-8901

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSNK4US View Post
    LOL love the rabbit!!!!
    LOL I'm glad someone else appreciated it! Seriously, thank you for the welcome and the advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    ...The Coyote + 0.64 TKO + 3.55 rear end is a proven and excellent combination...
    Thanks, exactly what I was looking for.[QUOTE=edwardb;360713]

    -
    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Hopefully you're clear that the IRS option doesn't provide the IRS center...
    I was under the impression that if you picked IRS then it's up to you to buy a pumpkin and knuckles OR FF5 has an option towards the bottom of their choices to buy it through them. My point was just that I think there are cheaper options, but if they were doing some kind of sale then I'd probably just get theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    - I'm a huge supporter of the Coyote in these builds.
    I'm like 99% Coyote at this point. I do need to see one in real life. (I won't like, I have caught myself listening very closely when I see a latest generation 5.0 mustang drive by..)
    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    - Sway bars probably aren't needed for a street driven car.
    Are they easy to add later if I changed my mind? Isn't there a bracket to bolt on during the build to give me the option to add them later if I want?

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    - To be brutally honest, I'm not a huge fan of the pre-made dash..
    I thought the "premade" just meant it was drilled and they sent you the parts to put in the glovebox. I do want to finish the dash because I'm concerned about exactly what you are describing. That said, I am fine with the "street" layout and don't need to have the competition. 40 watt's build thread mentions running a hole saw backwards to set a notch and then forwards to avoid the drill drifting. That sounds like a neat trick that I could probably get down with some practice. I don't think drilling is impossible, but if I'm OK with the street layout I don't see any reason to risk screwing up the placement of gauges, etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    - Heat and A/C...
    Exactly what I feared. I'll have to do some reading/youtubing on AC's in cars and be honest with myself about my abilities and what I want/need. Again, anything that can make it more drivable on more days, I'm for. So we'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    - Having done a build and a high end stereo...
    I'm leaning more and more towards getting the mod that has that cubby behind the seats and a nice Bluetooth speaker. Still, not 100% giving up on it, but it makes a lot of sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Come on it! It's a blast.


    Quote Originally Posted by gkp200 View Post
    It sounds like your looking at many of the options I selected.... Good luck.
    Build school is something to consider. I'm not close enough to make a decision on that yet. Thanks for the input!

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    I have a hard top that is always on the car so I think your idea of heat/AC w/ a soft top is excellent.
    That's great to hear. The AC will be a big decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    A 5 speed is plenty in a 2400# car.
    I thought so, but it's great to have confirmation.


    Quote Originally Posted by CFranks View Post
    I see you’re going with the standard brakes ...
    I have to admit, I haven't looked into it very much. I figured with the cars weight that the manual brake would still be fairly smooth and I have enough other "extras" that this wasn't high on my list but it's definitely worth some more consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    - Cable vs. hydraulic clutch...
    I'm definitely not 100% on this one. Actually, you have me starting to lean back towards cable.

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    - Add a shroud to the standard Factory Five radiator...
    that's great to hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    - I'm also a huge fan of Gas-N pipes...
    I'm as "pro GasN" as I can be without actually seeing/hearing them in person.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    ---If anybody tells you that a Coyote doesn't look good show them this one that's in one of my customer's cars
    Is the moral of this story that regardless what options you pick, the car will look amazing as long as it's painted by someone named Jeff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Not to be discouraging by any means...
    I really do appreciate both the warning and the encouragement. I'm probably asking these questions a bit earlier than I really "need" to, but it's for this reason - I want to know exactly what I'm getting into and budget both time and money appropriately. I may find that I can't have everything or that the whole thing needs to wait a year or two and that's OK, but I'm the type that has to bounce an idea around 100 times before he can feel super comfortable making a decision one way or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyflightPA-C View Post
    I'm in the same boat...
    That's awesome! If you pull the trigger set up a build thread, and you'll have at least 1 subscriber from the start!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by phileas_fogg View Post
    Welcome! Like you I had minimal experience working on cars
    Thank you, I figured ff5 was pretty easy to work with, nice to confirm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Levy View Post
    You might want to come out and see a few cars and I can definitely answer a ton of questions for you. There isn't much we haven't done to one of these.
    I'll probably take you up on that some Friday afternoon when I can slip away from work. Not this month... Maybe sometime in May.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straversi View Post
    Welcome to the fun. If you think these decisions are tough, wait until you have to pick a paint color....
    That story is great! And you mean the color thing is harder than just telling a painter that you want "blue"??

  26. #25
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snake View Post
    ...you mean the color thing is harder than just telling a painter that you want "blue"??
    Let me tell you some stories about guys who just want "blue"

    Jeff

  27. Likes Boydster liked this post
  28. #26
    Gordon Levy's Avatar
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    Give me a call, I am around many weekends
    Go Fast Part and tech Specialist [email protected]
    http://www.facebook.com/levyracing www.levyracing.com
    99/2000 NASA PSO Champion-2005 west coast FFR challenge series Champions
    Sponsor Tony B's 2007 ST2 National Championship
    2009 NASA TTC runner up-2010 NASA TTB runner up
    Completed over 215 FFR builds in the last 23 years and still counting

  29. #27
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snake View Post
    I was under the impression that if you picked IRS then it's up to you to buy a pumpkin and knuckles OR FF5 has an option towards the bottom of their choices to buy it through them. My point was just that I think there are cheaper options, but if they were doing some kind of sale then I'd probably just get theirs.
    Your description is correct. Just wanted to make sure you weren’t under the impression that buying the IRS option included the center section and knuckles/hubs. If you can get them on sale with Factory Five, obviously that’s the best deal. Their standard price is “OK” but there’s a little to be saved by buying elsewhere. There’s also money to be saved by buying them in salvage. I know some may shy away from that, but it’s an option. They’re very robust and if in good condition will easily live in the Roadster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snake View Post
    I'm like 99% Coyote at this point. I do need to see one in real life. (I won't like, I have caught myself listening very closely when I see a latest generation 5.0 mustang drive by..)
    A roadster with straight tube headers and side pipes doesn’t sound anything like a Mustang. Of any generation. I consider that a good thing…

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snake View Post
    Are they easy to add later if I changed my mind? Isn't there a bracket to bolt on during the build to give me the option to add them later if I want?
    The bracket for the front sway bar is standard on the frame, so nothing to do there in the future. For the IRS (only one I’m familiar with) there is a bracket that needs to be added. It’s captured in two of the suspension bolts. Not a bad idea to add during the build. But also not particularly hard to add in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snake View Post
    I thought the "premade" just meant it was drilled and they sent you the parts to put in the glovebox. I do want to finish the dash because I'm concerned about exactly what you are describing. That said, I am fine with the "street" layout and don't need to have the competition. 40 watt's build thread mentions running a hole saw backwards to set a notch and then forwards to avoid the drill drifting. That sounds like a neat trick that I could probably get down with some practice. I don't think drilling is impossible, but if I'm OK with the street layout I don't see any reason to risk screwing up the placement of gauges, etc.
    The only dash Factory Five sells with a glovebox is the plastic pre-made/pre-covered one I was referring to: http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/1578...with-glovebox/. The standard parts with the kit are a pre-cut aluminum dash in the street layout plus a roll of vinyl and padding to cover. They also offer a blank dash so you can cut your own layout. It’s easy enough to cut out your own layout, should you choose to go that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snake View Post
    I have to admit, I haven't looked into it very much. I figured with the cars weight that the manual brake would still be fairly smooth and I have enough other "extras" that this wasn't high on my list but it's definitely worth some more consideration.
    Not a question of smoothness, but rather pedal effort. The right size brakes, with the right pads, will stop fine without power assist. But in all cases the pedal effort is higher than power. Some don’t like that. I’ve done a couple builds with power brakes and I like them. But they also require a major change to the Wilwood pedal box and you lose the Wilwood balance bar brake bias design. My current Roadster has manual brakes and after getting used to the heavier pedal, I’m fine with them. Same setup is in my Coupe build.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  30. #28
    BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snake View Post

    I thought the "premade" just meant it was drilled and they sent you the parts to put in the glovebox. I do want to finish the dash because I'm concerned about exactly what you are describing. That said, I am fine with the "street" layout and don't need to have the competition. 40 watt's build thread mentions running a hole saw backwards to set a notch and then forwards to avoid the drill drifting. That sounds like a neat trick that I could probably get down with some practice. I don't think drilling is impossible, but if I'm OK with the street layout I don't see any reason to risk screwing up the placement of gauges, etc.:
    CLICK HERE, I used the "Premade" vinyl dash on my 20th anniversary build. a couple posts above/below this also shows how I modified the glove box so that the heater would fit behind it without moving the firewall. You do still have to completely put it all together, gauges, glove box, mounting, etc. You just do not have to drill holes except for the turn/hazard/high beam lights and a couple switches if you choose. Hope this helps and give you some ideas.

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 ( #8 of 20 ) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    First Start 11-1-18
    ----First GoCart 11-7-18
    BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
    Carb / Heater / Heated Seats / Cruise Control / Drop Trunk & Battery

    Build Thread Click Here Gel Coat Driver 1/12/19 - Hit 1000 Miles 3-23-19 / 2200 miles 4-30-19. FaceBook Page - Bando 11 Racing

  31. #29
    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Let me tell you some stories about guys who just want "blue"

    Jeff
    JAC..
    Just tell him red, that's an easy one.

  32. #30
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    2 comments to add -

    the A/C is not mechanically difficult to install, especially if you go coyote and use the factory compressor. The tough part is it adds lots of stuff to a crowded space behind the dash.

    Depending on the look you are after - under car exhaust is possible and much quieter.
    Greg

    Oh - and I plan on telling Kleiner "just green"

  33. #31
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    Desert Snake,
    Welcome to the party!! You’re at the door, so come on in!!

    I’m located in Scottsdale and received my Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe this past September. Although the calendar says 6 months, I’m probably more like just 4 months into the build since I was away on a few trips last fall.

    You can check out my “Bob’s Arizona Gen 3 Coupe Build Thread” to get an idea of my background and in part what I’m planning for the car.
    It’ll be a Repli-Mod2 (Replica-Modified-Modernized. With nothing to restore, it’s not a Resto-Mod that is so prevalent in the greater world of current car customizations). Basically, ordered the FFR Full Kit, I’m using 100% new parts, crate Gen 2 Coyote 5.0 (which I already have), T56 6-Speed, IRS, etc.

    From my original build thread’s ordered and to buy parts list, the most significant change has been to go with the Boig Quietpipes, which I have received and have on hand.
    My build thread hasn’t really been updated since shortly after it was created but I’m pretty much following the excellent and so appreciated build ideas, choices and processes of Paul Borror/EdwardB and his Gen 3 Coupe, with a few others builder’s ideas added in. When I get to some of my customizations, I’ll likely document those.

    Paul Gillespie in Glendale “Mystique Gen 3 Coupe Build Thread” has a Gen 3 Coupe and is nearing two years in his build and completion.

    You’re more than welcome to come over, check everything out first hand and have some Q&A. PM me if you’re interested.

    Bob

  34. #32
    Senior Member broku518's Avatar
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    Welcome! Hope you enjoy your build and create some awesome memories

    To me, the most important thing is, the car puts a smile on my face everytime I see it. I didn't build a show car, rather daily driver and go getter. Doing tracknight and autocross as well.

    My build is very simple, reliable. My boys like it and I find every excuse to drive it

    Enjoy!
    Life is short, so start living it.
    Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...-in-the-garage!
    delivery date: 10/31/2017, first start 2/24/2018, title and registration passed 6/22/2018

  35. #33
    Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Levy View Post
    Give me a call, I am around many weekends
    Well, I finally took Gordon up on his generous offer. It was pretty cool to see his shop and having a professional builder in the neighborhood that's pretty accessible and friendly is certainly a relief.

    Thanks again, it was pretty neat to check out.

  36. #34
    Gordon Levy's Avatar
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    Your welcome. Hope I answered some questions for you.
    Go Fast Part and tech Specialist [email protected]
    http://www.facebook.com/levyracing www.levyracing.com
    99/2000 NASA PSO Champion-2005 west coast FFR challenge series Champions
    Sponsor Tony B's 2007 ST2 National Championship
    2009 NASA TTC runner up-2010 NASA TTB runner up
    Completed over 215 FFR builds in the last 23 years and still counting

  37. #35
    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    Desert Snake I love the "lub dub dub" idle.
    The joys of modern software.

    Bad news with benefits. The crate engine will require a tune as the COBRA intake tract is different then what the crate motor is tuned for. Benefit is stock horsepower will be increased.

    Good news many of us run multiple tunes controlled by hand held devices that plug into the OBD port to change tunes. Tunes will change in about 5 minutes. I run two, my everyday driver performance 93 octane & a Ghost Cam for shows & some driving around. The Ghost Cam is a little finicky for daily driving at very low speeds but not onerously so.

    https://youtu.be/_fJysY168Zk

    Slow idle in vid, a few hundred more RPM will increase the sound & how much the car shakes.

    On wiring. The COYOTE is plug & play with the RF harness. There at 4 wires that need to be attached outside of the harness. I hate wiring & it was not an issue with this car.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

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