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Thread: First Autocross cones dodging - what to do/hints?

  1. #1
    Senior Member broku518's Avatar
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    First Autocross cones dodging - what to do/hints?

    Hello!

    In couple weeks I will try my first autocross. It will be on some large parking lot. I am supposed drive around some cones, I guess
    How the heck I can tell which way to go? It is all on wide open asfalt. I guess I'll find out...

    Anyhow, tips and hints are greatly appreciated!
    Life is short, so start living it.
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    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    Its actually not so bad once you get on the coarse. There will be cones on there side pointing which way to go. I've only done it a few times but its always a great time. Spend some time watching a few cars and it will help you out.
    CVOBill
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    Senior Member Crawleyscobra's Avatar
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    Get there early enough to walk the course several times. I even draw a rough map on a small note pad as I walk it. Some disagree with driving your first pass slowly, but I find that it helps. Then I push hard for the remaining passes. Don't spin your tires on take off, you are not moving forward as fast as you could be with just a good firm launch.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member 42Bfast's Avatar
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    There a a number of helpful articles, books, and videos aimed at helping the first timer,...and those of us that have arrived at the forgetful age.
    Check the SCCA website and trusty YouTube for guides that start with the basics of reading the cone code. Yes, figuring out where to go can be intimidating and frustrating.
    Don’t worry, we’ve all been there, ... and some of us go back for a visit upon occasion.
    So, in addition to the good advice for the others, remember to have fun! Your only goal is to improve and enjoy the day driving an awesome car near its traction limits!

  5. #5

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    I can't help you turn left or right; however, I will make one suggestion:

    Consider using Blue Painters Tape on the front of your car to keep from scuffing the Paint and/or Gel-Coat....

    It works equally well on the lower rear quarter panels when you are doing John Force Style Burn Outs too!

    Good Luck & Tell Us How It Goes!

    Steve
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 03-15-2019 at 03:42 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mike N's Avatar
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    Almost all events will have a novice course walk led by an experienced driver. Make sure to do the course walk. You should have more time after the novice walk to walk the course yourself. I walk the course as many times as I can in the time allotted. I like to walk a section of course and then stop, close my eyes, and visualize driving through that section before moving on to the next section. My goal is to be able to stand at the start line close my eyes and visualize driving the whole course. You won't be able to clearly remember the complete course but you should be able to remember enough key apex or pointer cones that you won't get (too) lost when driving the course.

    If you don't have a good feel for your car at the limit driving at a comfortable pace (not slow) will really help. Your only goal on the first pass should be to complete the course. If you get lost, spin, or hit a bunch of cones you really didn't learn anything other than to drive within limits the next time.

    Remember you are not going to be the fastest guy there. Just have fun.
    Mike............

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    Find an experienced driver to ride shotgun to help you navigate the cones, and coach you through the course. There won't be any problems, most all of the drivers will be very willing to help. After a few runs, then maybe take it out solo. It can be very frustrating trying to visualize the cones at the beginning.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike N View Post
    Almost all events will have a novice course walk led by an experienced driver. Make sure to do the course walk. You should have more time after the novice walk to walk the course yourself. I walk the course as many times as I can in the time allotted. I like to walk a section of course and then stop, close my eyes, and visualize driving through that section before moving on to the next section. My goal is to be able to stand at the start line close my eyes and visualize driving the whole course. You won't be able to clearly remember the complete course but you should be able to remember enough key apex or pointer cones that you won't get (too) lost when driving the course.

    If you don't have a good feel for your car at the limit driving at a comfortable pace (not slow) will really help. Your only goal on the first pass should be to complete the course. If you get lost, spin, or hit a bunch of cones you really didn't learn anything other than to drive within limits the next time.

    Remember you are not going to be the fastest guy there. Just have fun.

    +1 on all the "walk the course (many times) + visualize it" replies (more than than just the one I quoted).


    When I first started autocrossing cobras, the last thing (before we showed up) I told the owner/builder who wanted me to give him some guidance / co-drive, etc...


    "You understand that teenage girls in miatas are going to stomp us on raw time???..."

    His reply: "You're kidding, right???..."


    "nope..."


    Took him a while to get over that - and it took us a couple/three years before we could routinely beat miatas.


    The learning curve is steep on driving these cars "well", especially in autocross.


    For what it's worth...

  9. #9
    Senior Member Gromit's Avatar
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    X2 on draw a map, as I've aged the fun of autocross hasn't diminished but my ability to remember the course after lunch might have I bring a clipboard and draw it out X for standing cones and triangles for the lay down pointers then I and what I think the preferred line will be I.E. Wide here tight there The novice walk will help with that. I keep the paper map in the car and review it in the staging lanes
    Practice launching hard without wheel spin
    Make sure you clean out the car before you get there
    Make sure your car is mechanical sound they check for throttle return springs seat belts helmet brake pedal and battery tie down as the bigger things
    I keep all my junk in a copy paper box in a green trash bag
    Tire pressure gauge and air tank or portable air compressor adjusting air pressure is a quick easy tuning tool
    Bring / drink lots of fluids and sun screen. It's hot out on the asphalt Rain gear if that happens in your area is good too
    Wear comfortable shoes you will be walking and standing a lot

    Pitch in and have fun you won't find a safer way to explore the performance limits of any car

    Just my thoughts
    Chris aka Gromit

  10. #10
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    I remember the first time I ran a slalom event... I got totally lost out on the course.
    I think the club was to stingy with the cones, as they sure were a long ways apart from one another. Maybe their budget was tight, or they had never done an event on an airport, where they had a large area to do the bigger layout. The layout was such, that you actually crossed back and forth over some parts of the course that you had just driven, and that added more confusion. As you passed by those cones you'd run previously, you catch them out of the corner of your eye, and be thinking, oh **** did I just miss a turn? Doing a 360 spin at one point, didn't help my sense of direction either.

    To this day, I have no idea why I didn't get a DNF. I am positive I was off course more then a few times. The timer never even blinked, just handed me my time slip. Nobody, even my buddy that was racing his Lotus, mentioned to me that I had looked lost, or was off course. I wonder now if nobody could figure out the layout, either drivers or marshals, and just assumed everybody had stayed on it?
    Regardless, it was an absolute blast, and a great experience. Just go out and have fun, and don't take it to seriously if you do get lost. If your lucky, they will have lots of cones, and a very well marked out course.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Avalanche325's Avatar
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    To add to other things mentioned.
    If you are running with the SCCA, and your tires have a treadwear rating of 200 or more, you can run in CAM-S. If your tires are <200, you are in XP.

    Make sure that everyone knows that you are a first timer. People are very helpful and want you to have fun and come back.

    Three things for the course walk (not counting the novice walk):
    1. Be quiet and serious. If you are talking with people and joking around, you are wasting your time. The exception is to ask a question if you are confused.
    2. Walk where YOUR BUTT in the seat is going to be. Don't walk down the middle unless you take your McLaren F1.
    3. Pay attention to spacing on slaloms (count your steps between cones). Are the cones getting closer together, further apart, or are they consistent?

    Goal 1 is to get through the course without getting lost. Some courses are easy to read, some are more difficult.
    Goal 2 is to get a clean run. After that, you can try to go a little faster.

    Be smooth on the controls. Don't yank the steering wheel, move it quickly and smoothly. Roll on and especially off, the throttle. Don't stab or abruptly lift. This is very important on a Cobra.
    Get out of 1st gear as soon as possible. The car is much easier to control in 2nd gear than 1st.
    Don't trail bake. Brake - release - turn in. Only make your tires do one thing at a time.
    Look as far down course as you possibly can. Look where you want to go. If you zone in on a cone, you will hit it.
    In slow - out fast. Going into a turn too hard feels fast to a beginner. You want the car hooked up as early as possible coming out. You never want to run wide.
    Drifting is fun / drifting is slow. For my driving style, a Cobra is quickest right on the ragged edge, dancing and slipping a bit, but not drifting.
    In a slalom, try to keep a pretty constant throttle. Don't go on- off-on -off. That will keep the car unsettled.
    Strap in a little early. It takes a little longer with our harnesses than other cars. Buckle up your passenger belts. They can distract you if they are flopping around.
    When you do some reading, you may find advice to jack your tire pressures up. These cars don't like that. At least not with 17" wheels. I usually run 23psi all around with Nitto NT5s.

    You are most likely to hit cones with the right rear tire. Here is an exercise for you. When you are on a road that has reflectors on it, ease over until you just start catching them. That will help you learn how wide your car is.

    Don't get overwhelmed with the huge list of things. They will come.

    Autocross is one of the best things a Cobra owner can do for safety. It just happens to be one of the most fun things you can do too.

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  13. #12
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    I gave up on drawing maps. It was just too hard to make them accurate. But what I do do, is visualize the whole course as one unit. I look at all the individual turns but I also think of it as a? Maybe a big M w/ an extra tail, or a big C w/ some squiggles in the middle, a figure 8 w/ a small side and a large side?
    This helps me not get lost. I second letting them know you are a newbie. Ask the people at registration to recommend someone to walk w/ you and then ride w/ you. Get there early. I've been doing this for 50 yrs and can get away w/ a last minute arrival but I don't like it. I really do like having plenty of time so I am relaxed. Giving up an hour of sleep will pay off big time. If the AX is listed as starting at 9AM, there are probably people there at 7-730 setting up. Helping them would be a great way to show your interest and make new friends. My goal is make each run a little better than the previous. For me a crappy AX is one where my 2nd run ends up being my fastest. If there is any question of when to hit 2nd gear, the answer is always do it early. We have a lot more power than we can use so get it into 2nd and leave it there.
    Last edited by CraigS; 03-16-2019 at 07:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avalanche325 View Post

    Roll on and especially off, the throttle. Don't stab or abruptly lift. This is very important on a Cobra.

    Don't trail brake. Brake - release - turn in. Only make your tires do one thing at a time.
    Seriously - it took about a year and a half (~10-15 autocrosses) to learn to come off the throttle and onto the brake (quickly) in a manner that's not setting the car up to spin...
    Last edited by mike223; 03-16-2019 at 07:56 AM.

  15. #14
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post
    Seriously - it took about a year and a half (~10-15 autocrosses) to learn to come off the throttle and onto the brake (quickly) in a manner that's not setting the car up to spin...

    Modulate two pedals at once by left foot braking. Not for beginners...

    Martin,
    Fly on up here the weekend of June 8. I'll be instructing at my SCCA region's annual school weekend for novices and you can use my car. Seriously.

    Jeff

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  17. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Modulate two pedals at once by left foot braking. Not for beginners...

    Martin,
    Fly on up here the weekend of June 8. I'll be instructing at my SCCA region's annual school weekend for novices and you can use my car. Seriously.

    Jeff

    I've seen people who were "artists" with that technique, I've never been able to master it - but I really do enjoy the ease with which I can transfer weight back + forth between the axles with the throttle (alone) in these cars.


    Martin - you really should take that offer if you can make it work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    ... Fly on up here the weekend of June 8. I'll be instructing at my SCCA region's annual school weekend for novices and you can use my car. Seriously.

    Jeff
    Jeff-

    What an amazing offer! I am truly blown away by this awesome offer Jeff. I have said it to you privately, but I will also say it publicly; I really appreciate all you do to help people out Jeff! I admire your willingness to help, offer suggestions, guidance, or to chide when necessary. You have helped me a ton, and I see how often you help others, and it is really impressive. So, once again... THANKS! This place is better because of people like you Jeff!

    Regards,

    Steve

  19. #17
    FF6602's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    .... I second letting them know you are a newbie. Ask the people at registration to recommend someone to walk w/ you and then ride w/ you. Get there early. I've been doing this for 50 yrs and can get away w/ a last minute arrival but I don't like it. I really do like having plenty of time so I am relaxed. Giving up an hour of sleep will pay off big time. If the AX is listed as starting at 9AM, there are probably people there at 7-730 setting up. Helping them would be a great way to show your interest and make new friends.....
    +2 on CraigS' comments!

    I've been autocrossing since the '70s and I've never been to an event where novices weren't welcome. Don't be shy, especially about getting there early and offering to help with setup. No experience is needed to haul cones to the far end of the course, or to put up safety barriers, or whatever grunt work needs to be done AND you will earn brownie points with the folks who do 90% of the work at every event.

    Ask if someone will walk the course with you and then ride-along with you. I'm guessing that when they find out you have a Cobra, they'll be interested! They may even let you ride-along with them so you can learn from them. If you have the opportunity, go with a driver in a RWD, higher-HP car. A Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, etc. is driven differently than a Mini Cooper S.

    The only part to take super-seriously is the safety part - a high-quality helmet, 5-point harness, throttle-return spring, no fluid leaks, no loose objects in the car (love the idea of fastening passenger belts if not in use!), pay attention to the officials and course marshals. The rest of the time, have fun! And, as another forum member noted, when the experienced racer girl in the Miata is faster than you (and she will be), laugh it off and say, "I learned a lot about my driving and my car. I'll be a better Cobra driver on the street, and on the track, because of it!"

    I've autocrossed lots of different cars, from Shelby Mustangs to Formula Fords, but this season will be my first with my Cobra. I'm grateful to everyone on this forum who shares their advice and experience about driving one smoothly because that's always the key to a fast time. I will look forward to learning of your results and comparing notes with you as the summer goes on!
    Craig

    10/2018 -- acquired Mk3.1 #6602 which was an unfinished project in go-kart stage; 9/2019 -- completed car enough to drive locally and compete in autocross events; still in original black gel-coat; 347 Stroker w/ Holley 650 carb, roller cam; Tremec 3550; 3.51 rear diff; lots of Breeze pieces; 2021 -- XP Champion in Central PA Region - SCCA Autocross Series; 2022 - installed windshield and registered in PA; my Build Thread -- https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ished-Business

    6/2022 -- acquired Mk3 #1004; finished build; 347 stroker w/ Holley 560 carb SOLD

  20. #18
    Senior Member Gromit's Avatar
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    my First Autocross car was an 86 Iroc Camaro. took a bit to learn that if you overpower the rear tires with throttle and the rear end starts to come around you do not want to just lift completely off the throttle. I learned the "feel" of the rear end starting to break loose and found that a tiny lift off the gas and the car would stick and FLY around the corners on rails. the G inside the car was amazing. trying to drift or power slide just meant I was going to come around in a loop. sometimes it would loop tail end into the turn not out.. again I was attempting to counter steer out of a power slide, closed the throttle, the rear end gripped and with the front wheels turned the wrong way. that's what it did it snapped the back the wrong way.
    its easy to get a car out of shape with too quick on and off the gas. small smooth adjustments will have you flying around corners much faster than you ever thought. the thing I learned auto crossing was the limits of my car where way higher than I thought and once I got to the limits... things happen big and really quick.

    tell them your a novice. get a ride along if you can... X2 do a ride alone in a high HP rear wheel drive. help out have fun... let us know how you did.
    Chris

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  22. #19
    Senior Member broku518's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Modulate two pedals at once by left foot braking. Not for beginners...

    Martin,
    Fly on up here the weekend of June 8. I'll be instructing at my SCCA region's annual school weekend for novices and you can use my car. Seriously.

    Jeff
    Hi Jeff,
    Thank you so much for this offer! My birthday is the day after. It would be great way to celebrate, but I plan to spend it with my boys.
    Life is short, so start living it.
    Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...-in-the-garage!
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  23. #20
    Senior Member broku518's Avatar
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    wow! So many valuable hints and points. Thank you so much guys!

    I will take some videos and report back
    I hope I don't loose my rear end, like I did on tracknight the other day! If I do I will remember not let off the gas pedal all the way.

    I will ask for help and see if I could ride along with someone.

    I will one of these
    https://www.amazon.com/DRIVER-PATIEN...gateway&sr=8-1
    Last edited by broku518; 03-18-2019 at 09:12 AM.
    Life is short, so start living it.
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  24. #21
    Senior Member broku518's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF6602 View Post
    +2 on CraigS' comments!

    I've been autocrossing since the '70s and I've never been to an event where novices weren't welcome. Don't be shy, especially about getting there early and offering to help with setup. No experience is needed to haul cones to the far end of the course, or to put up safety barriers, or whatever grunt work needs to be done AND you will earn brownie points with the folks who do 90% of the work at every event.

    Ask if someone will walk the course with you and then ride-along with you. I'm guessing that when they find out you have a Cobra, they'll be interested! They may even let you ride-along with them so you can learn from them. If you have the opportunity, go with a driver in a RWD, higher-HP car. A Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, etc. is driven differently than a Mini Cooper S.

    The only part to take super-seriously is the safety part - a high-quality helmet, 5-point harness, throttle-return spring, no fluid leaks, no loose objects in the car (love the idea of fastening passenger belts if not in use!), pay attention to the officials and course marshals. The rest of the time, have fun! And, as another forum member noted, when the experienced racer girl in the Miata is faster than you (and she will be), laugh it off and say, "I learned a lot about my driving and my car. I'll be a better Cobra driver on the street, and on the track, because of it!"

    I've autocrossed lots of different cars, from Shelby Mustangs to Formula Fords, but this season will be my first with my Cobra. I'm grateful to everyone on this forum who shares their advice and experience about driving one smoothly because that's always the key to a fast time. I will look forward to learning of your results and comparing notes with you as the summer goes on!
    Thanks! I will do so, no problem helping out.

    Oh, I don't really care if I am slower, or the slowest out there. I got the 'ego' lesson on my tracknight the other day
    Life is short, so start living it.
    Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...-in-the-garage!
    delivery date: 10/31/2017, first start 2/24/2018, title and registration passed 6/22/2018

  25. #22
    Senior Member Avalanche325's Avatar
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    I agree with the other guys.....get there early. You will be surprised how busy you are. Get there, empty your car out. Don't forget to take the drivers floor mat out. Some venues will have you remove cosmetic spinners. Then go to registration.
    You'll be a little busy answering Cobra questions too. Everyone loves them.
    I have taken to removing spinners and taping up my car the night before because I always feel in a rush first thing.
    I always torque my lug nuts at the event.

    For your belts. Tighten the lap belt first and then the shoulders. All as hard as you can stand. You will be slinging the car back and forth constantly.

    Get a ride if you can. However, realize that as a passenger everything seems to happen a lot faster than when you are driving. Don't let that freak you out. I got my first ride in a Dodge Neon, and was thinking "I can't do this". I was fine when diving.

    If you are going to do this regularly and have a wooden steering wheel, get something like batters gloves. They are grippy but you don't lose any feel. At least take a hand towel and tuck it behind your passenger seat.

    What an awesome offer from Jeff. I did an SCCA Starting Line school after a couple seasons. I learned so much. I thought I WAS looking down course. One instructor went Waaaay down course and said "you should be looking here". We were joking that we couldn't even see him.

    Yeah, I got beat by Miatas for a couple years. We even have a Yaris that can make you look like a fool!

  26. #23
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broku518 View Post
    Hi Jeff,
    Thank you so much for this offer! My birthday is the day after. It would be great way to celebrate, but I plan to spend it with my boys.
    The offer stands for any other time you want to head up here Martin.

    Smooth is fast...especially with these cars. They don't like to be tossed or manhandled. Easy on all of the inputs---Too abrupt with the wheel and it'll push and plow like a John Deere---too hard on the gas and you'll just make smoke or go around (don't get worried if that happens; I do it at least a couple of times a year ). There's no coasting in autocross---you're either braking or accelerating. Lose your speed before turning then get back on the throttle through the turn or slalom. Again, that doesn't mean ALL of the throttle! You'll find that the car is more stable under power, even just light throttle.

    As Avalanche said cinch yourself down tight with all 5 belts and do not use the wheel to hold yourself up...it's amazing how many times I've seen this as well as drivers using one hand...after making your shift to second gear both hands go on the wheel and stay there working them against one another. You have more muscle control pulling than pushing so when you want to turn right pull with the right hand and resist with the left and vice-versa.

    Don't forget to breathe. You laugh but it happens.

    Guys who don't know our cars will tell you to air up your tires and they are wrong. You're on 555G2s; set them to about 22 and leave them alone. You don't know enough to start playing with pressures yet...that's not an insult, just the way it is.

    You'll hit cones. If you don't you need to tighten up your line until you do so that you can learn where the corners of your car are. At this point if you aren't ever taking a cone it means two things (1) you think your car is wider than it is and (2) you're driving a longer distance than you need to which adds time.

    Someone mentioned that you'll run in X-Prepared or CAM-S. Unless your car is abnormally heavy you'll run X-P (CAM-S is 2,500# minimum weight without the driver but most FFR roadsters are under 2,300 pounds; my own is 2,180)

    Don't worry about anyone's time but your own. Your only goal it this point is only to beat yourself, learn and improve!

    I ask first timers if they play golf and tell them that it's very much the same....you will find yourself thinking things like "I drove that first slalom perfectly but screwed up so bad going into that last box" the same way a golfer will finish a round and think about how he hit a perfect tee shot on the third hole and then screwed up an easy put on the eighth. It's that elusive dream of stringing all of those elements together for one epic run (or round as the case may be) that keeps sucking us back in!

    No matter what just have fun! Oh wait, I didn't need to tell you that! You're going to have a blast

    Jeff

  27. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post

    There's no coasting in autocross---you're either braking or accelerating. Lose your speed before turning then get back on the throttle through the turn or slalom. Again, that doesn't mean ALL of the throttle! You'll find that the car is more stable under power, even just light throttle.


    Jeff nailed it.

    You experienced how to get the car to over rotate in your track day video with trailing throttle + trailing brake.

    Now - learn to stop + modulate that rotation by picking up "a little" leading throttle.


    Autocross is the perfect place to practice that skill (safely).

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