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Thread: KW and CW build

  1. #1
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    KW and CW build

    Hey again, got the good on Sunday, the Stewart driver was awesome.

    Quick build background...

    MKIV - complete kit - chose mostly base options, but I did opt in for as "complete" a kit as possible. Some of the more important options:
    - powder coated the frame
    - 302/351 Mounts (thinking about 347 w/TKO 600 right now)
    - power steering kit
    - Moser 3 link solid Axle Rear End, std width (I got the rear solid axle brake kit as well)

    My son and I have had a few days at it. We inventoried and found 9 items unaccounted for (minus the POR list). Some of the other forum contributors have indicated everything from impatience to euphoria about being able to open all those boxes and bags and count each and every little and big item. I was closer to the euphoria side.

    We worked with a couple Dave's from FF (they are all Dave's over there) and in a short matter they had the missing item list figured out. It is supposed to be shipped pronto. I was really impressed by the staff there - email were answered quickly, I was never left hanging.

    I removed panels next - making sure to keep up with the marking part so I knew where to drill holes later. I have tons of pictures for that if anyone out there finds they might need one they missed I may be able to help.

    Then some fun - C and I started with lower control arms. The bushings are already pressed so it is a matter of just fitting them in the tabs that are on the frame. That was easy on the passenger side, but the drive side not so much. Before I came inside and checked on the best way to handle the situation I had used a brake spreader and rubber mallet to knock the driver front side lower arm into place - which worked but the sleeve underneath scratched up the frame. There are better ways, just search it on the forum.

  2. #2
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    Then I started the upper control arms and hit a problem.

    As detailed in some other threads (search on the forum about upper ball joint threading issues) I hit a snag again when I started by threading a ball joint into one of the UCA's. Unlike what I read about some other people's issues, it started off great and I threaded it to about 1/8 done - but then it locked up tight - it wouldn't budge on or off until I basically mangled the top of the ball joint with a 50 year old vice and managed to get it in with extreme brute force.
    I mangled it.jpg

    During the above debacle I took a break and found that others wirebrushed the paint off the ball joint thread. I did that on the second one, put some lock tight on it, and it went on smoothly. Note to self: When you think "force it", go get a beer and sit in front of the computer.
    nice after wire brush.jpg

    So the ball joints went in, one tight as heck, the other smooth as silk. Taking bets on which one is a problem first later on.

  3. #3
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    After the ball joints went on I followed the instructions in the manual for a basic alignment. Seems to match pretty well and I torqued down the bolts to keep it on place.

    20190315_210205.jpg

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    Attaching the UCA's got a bit shady though. As far as I can tell I followed the destructions correctly but I had a couple challenges.

    First, a really minor one, I found the rear UCA bracket for both sides to be really hard to get a wrench on. It is a 3/4 inch wrench that needed to fit into a small space where the nut is too close to the frame to get the closed end on. I found this angle into the space to work best to finish torquing it down.

    hard as heck to reach.jpg

  5. #5
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    The second potential issue is, after mounting the two UCA's there is a very tight proximity to the frame by the driver side rear UCA nut. This may be usual, but I'm put-off by the degree of difference between the passenger side:
    passenger side ok.jpg

    Compared to the driver side:
    driver side too close.jpg

    I get that driver side and passenger side may not fit the same, but I'm suspect of this. Hoping to get some feedback on that in a different thread.

  6. #6
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    Final item to attempt was shocks but I hit a snag here too - just something an inexperienced builder would get confused by.

    The jam-nut on the koni shocks are firmly fixed to the bottom of the screw and I can't seem to budge them in a manner that won't scratch up or screw up the rod they are screwed onto:

    20190316_001546.jpg

    I thought the tie-rod end part needed the jam nut - but I'm not sure how to budge it. I could use suggestions.

    Well that is it so far. finish up with some nice pics...

    20190310_174421.jpg

    20190314_185408.jpg

  7. #7
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    KW and CW-

    Looks like you are off to a good start; not without some challenges, but a good start!

    I took a long look at the last picture you posted. I have seen the look on that young man's face before. It's the look that means, I wish Dad would hurry up and finish this thing so it will be ready for me to drive! Or at least something close to that...

    Keep up the good work, and don't let the challenges distract you. We all have had challenges and setbacks; some like me, have had more than we are willing to admit publicly!!

    Regards,

    Steve

  8. #8
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    Appreciate that WIS89!

    Update to the koni shock thing: Last night I couldn't budge the jam nut that was seated firmly on the end AWAY from the shock end. I took the shock to a tire and shock store and the man at the desk said it was fine where it was but that didn't seem right.

    I was across the street from another auto care place (can I say their name?) where the mechanic was really cool and he loosened the jam nuts with an impact wrench. So the shocks will hopefully go on today.

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    I figured I'd update the build thread since I haven't in about a month. Lots going on around here...

    The engineer in me wants to make sure this gets noted -- the first thing to update is the process, process, process!

    It is noted often on the forum to make sure to look at the videos and read the manual. Then repeat. Then repeat as needed. I couldn't agree with that more. But I'd also add that you should make sure to check for the latest manual. When my MK4 shipped and was received in March the manual had been updated in the meantime, so the paper version I have is not the latest. Off hand, I can't remember when that bit me, but it did at some point.

    So the process has sort of turned into: read the manual, watch the video, and then read the pdf version (repeat).

    Another note - the pdf version is in color. When you are like me, staring at the pictures in the greyscale paper version trying to figure out what in the world you are looking at, it is amazing how the color version can help. So there is another reason to be checkin' out the newest pdf version.
    Last edited by welske; 04-16-2019 at 10:42 PM.

  10. #10
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    About a month ago C and I finished up the basic front end suspension build up. We even rolled the chassis outside and took advantage of some sweet March weather to do it.

    20190319_132047.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #11
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    As far as the UCA, LCA, shocks, and spindles there are probably two things I'd note from my experience. If you have the right tools, this one is not a problem - I had a real hard time getting the castle nut on the LCA really tightened to my liking. Partly because at the time the upper control arm was in place and I could not get a socket/torque wrench on the castle nut to really cinch it down as per the instructions. But also, the spacer under the castle nut didn't seem to be provide enough offset. So after really wrenching on the nut with open ended wrench I found that the cotter pin hole in the bolt was very close to even with the castle nut "spires", but not quite.

    I'm thinking about adding spacers to that castle nut to get it more in line with the cotter pin hole, but for now I guess it is fine. I've marked the nut with paint to verify it doesn't back out and at some point I'll probably come back to it to get it off my mind.

    20190319_152112.jpg
    Last edited by welske; 04-16-2019 at 10:45 PM.

  12. #12
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    Continued from above...

    The second thing is, again, to read the directions. There is a single sentence in the manual that has a lot of meaning later as you put together more of the front end - "Bolt the steering arms to the spindles so the tie rod end will mount from the bottom."

    When I first got the steering arms inventoried I had a pretty fruitless conversation about them with FF. The inventory indicated there would be one for the left side and one for the right side. I took pictures of the two I had (which were identical) and asked FF if I had two of the left or two of the right. After talking past each other a while, FF (probably in exasperation) indicated what I had was cool - just go with it.

    What I did not realize was that the sentence from the manual above actually meant something and that the bolt hole that would fit the tie rod ends is tapered. You can't really see it and it's hard to even feel it, but it is - trust me. Though the steering arms will fit either driver or passenger side and look quite content where they are, when you get to your steering rack you may find (as I did) that a front end rebuild is in order because you put the steering arms on the wrongs sides. (For reference, the larger side of the tie rod end hole should face the ground).

    FYI - to switch the steering arms one has to loosen (or remove) the brake calipers and remove the spindle from the ball joint bolt so the steering arms are accessible. It was straight forward, but trying to loosen the spindle from the ball joint without using forks (to save the paint and rubber boots) or having some sort of special tool was a pain. Eventually I got it (inquire if you want to know how) and made the switch.
    Last edited by welske; 04-16-2019 at 08:45 PM.

  13. #13
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    The next step was to POR some of the bare metal pieces. When I inventoried I marked the inventory as I went with some extra notes on things I thought I'd need to paint - so I had a pretty easy time gathering them up and painting them, following the POR directions word for word. They turned out pretty well but not as well as I had hoped. The "ok" result had nothing to do with the POR product or instructions - it has to do with me being an inexperienced and cruddy painter. Next time around I'll go a little slower on the third (paint) step to make sure I don't get paint drips or areas that are a little thicker with paint than others. But the couple pieces that turned out just right do look great.

    One other note - almost every piece that was painted needed to be sanded or ground in places. As I've continued to work I've found that to be the rule rather than the exception on the smaller bare metal fabricated parts. Lots of burs, sharp edges, etc. A grinding wheel fixes the issue post haste.

    Here are a couple of pics:

    before:
    Attachment 105847
    after:
    Attachment 105848

  14. #14
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    The rear end (3 link, complete kit Moser) went in next. The only thing (that I know of) that needed to be done to the rear end was fill it with gear oil - I followed the Moser and FF instructions and put in the additive as well. The only issue we had with this section was sort of going back and forth between boxes and bags of bolts and having to use bolts that were not really descriptively explained in the manual. When I finally got to installing the panhard and upper link I was missing the right length bolt and needed a run to Lowes to get that squared away. For the life of me, I don't know where I used the wrong bolt, but the stuff stayed on the car so I got that going for me.

    Also - before trying to install the rear end, remove the panhard bar frame if it is attached to the frame from the factory. Later on in the manual it is explained how to put it on, but it doesn't need to be there when you are trying to install the rear end.

    I guess one last thing - we attached the lower control arms to the rear end and then bolted them to the chassis as we installed the rear end. I'm not sure that is the best way to do it. We had an awful time getting them in - lots of massaging, jacking up and down the rear end, and just general confusion on how to get the arms in the brackets. When they first one went in the second one looked like it was impossible. It's good to have a son who is more patient than his dad, because I finally decided to turn around and take a breather and after a while C had the arm seated. Not sure how - but his way was much less potty-mouthed than mine, so I admire him for that.
    20190331_184542.jpg
    This was prior to the panhard bar getting installed.

    20190402_193049.jpg
    This was after the panhard bar. Looks like the upper link isn't attached yet, but it might be just the angle of the picture.
    Last edited by welske; 04-16-2019 at 10:52 PM.

  15. #15
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    Next we did a little panel installation - trying to get the hang of working with them.

    While I liked the idea of powder coating the panels, I didn't feel comfortable with the idea of fitting them all, drilling them all, and then taking them off and hoping that the placement wouldn't change enough for the holes to stay perfectly aligned - especially considering that there may be some modifications needed as I go along. I also didn't like the cost aspects of the powder coating but if I'm honest, I didn't really cost out the alternatives considering I didn't want to leave the view-able panels naked. In the end I wanted to find a solution with the panels that I could sort of take care of it as I went along.

    As an off topic comment - this is one of the places where this build is really challenging for a newbie (strike 1) and for a non-build school participant (pop foul / out). I think the experience gathered from those would really be helpful in making up my mind on how to handle aspects of the build that I can get slightly paralyzed in because I'm afraid of what I don't know and don't want to put myself in a corner. In the case of the panels, I'm sure that they will be ok because in the end the finish is aesthetic, but in some other cases I'm facing now (routing fuel lines and brake lines) the lack of vision of a finished product can be somewhat debilitating. Basically I just don't want to put things somewhere they can't be only to find out later. Anyway...

    For finishing the panels, I decided to paint the panels that are in sight with some cheap silver hammered effect Rustoleum. The panels that are exposed to the elements (like the splash guards, ground facing, and the outside of the F-panels) are getting spray on truck bed liner. In either case they are primed with some self-etching primer stuff. In the case that the panel is hidden, it gets cleaned with acetone and that is all.

    Here are the products I went with:
    Attachment 105851

    The procedure is - wash the panel off with water to get rid of dust and (Alabama in the spring) pollen. Wipe with Acetone liberally to clean off sharpie, ink, grime, oil, etc. If painting or applying truck bed liner - prime that surface and then apply the finish. I did that with the F-panels:
    Attachment 105852
    (truck bed liner side)

    Attachment 105853
    engine facing side

    Later on (not at this point in the build but it fits the conversation now) I did the same with the passenger side footbox:
    Attachment 105854
    and..
    Attachment 105855

    Overall I like the look - although I sort of wish I would have gone black as the paint color. I'm hoping that in the cases that I miss a panel that is view-able that I didn't realize was view-able that it won't stick out like a sore thumb as much.

    I have already learned that the paint and bed liner is easy to patch up when it does get scratched - just point and spray.

  16. #16
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    The pedal box was installed during this month as well. It was easy enough based on the manual but there were a few hitches that sort of caught us up (and continue to catch us up as well).

    20190412_163919.jpg
    The plates that make up the clutch needed some work based on the metal having burs and some fabrication inconsistencies that prevented them from fitting flat together. At first I didn't realize that was happening and couldn't understand why they wouldn't fit together and why the pedal wouldn't go in correctly. The manual does indicate that where the pedal inserts into the assembled plates it will need some grind work, but that wasn't the only thing. In the end - no big deal -it just took a minute to understand what was going on.

    One more note one the master cylinder elbows that are screwed into the ends of the master cylinders: the elbows provided by Wilwood have some factory applied thread locker / sealer that makes screwing the elbows into the MC very awkward. I found that I was getting a bit nervous trying to fully thread the elbows in due the effort required, the fact that the elbows are brass, and that the elbows need to face a certain way after screwing them in. Sure enough on the second one I ended up breaking the elbow due to the effort and the wrench placement on the elbow. Luckily, the local NAPA had them and it was easily replaced.

    The throttle cable install description is not adequate in the manual (at least for me). Luckily the forum helped on that:
    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l-installation
    (Thanks GoDadGo for the details)!
    But even with that, I just don't like it. The throttle cable seems frail after cutting - as if it will fray eventually or tear on the pedal itself where it is threaded in. Probably some small grommet on the pedal is needed or would help, but after research I think I found my first must-have mod - a mechanical throttle linkage. There are a couple detailed on the forum, EdwardB has one I think he made up, but there is also one offered by Forte that I like. At some point I'll be doing something else with the accelerator. At any rate, the throttle cable is attached and hanging lazy-like in the engine compartment.

    20190412_210831.jpg
    Last edited by welske; 04-16-2019 at 10:58 PM.

  17. #17
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    We also tackled the power steering rack. The issues here were tool/muscle-power based. We found that while I have a number of tools to press in/out things like ball joints, hubs, etc, nothing we had would gracefully press out the pre-installed bushings from the power steering rack. In the end we removed them with a little blunt force and a lot of vise lock pulling. We balanced the PS rack so that none of the hard lines would get jostled or bumped, placed a socket on the metal sleeve in the bushing and gave it a couple really hard whacks with a hammer so the sleeve was just exposed enough to get vise grips on it to grip it. Then we worked it out with the vise grips.

    Placing the rack in at first seemed an impossible fit. When we first tried it the hour was late and patience was not in ample supply so we quit on it before getting too frustrated. As far as we could tell, the rack steering column section was in the way of letting the driver side from getting seated, which was in the way of the passenger side getting seated - it all seemed to work against each other.

    After sleeping on it and looking online for some advice we found where someone said to lift the passenger side way up while feeding the steering column section into the little nook it has to go in while lowering the driver side into the tabs on the frame. Once the driver side was seated with a bolt to keep it in, just rock the passenger side down (watching for the control arm grabbing on the shock spring). That procedure worked great and it was seated in 5 minutes. (Sadly, the relief was short lived considering this is where we found the steering arms were upside down).
    20190412_210626.jpg
    Last edited by welske; 04-16-2019 at 11:00 PM.

  18. #18
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    The steering column went in next. Just a couple things about that - this is one of the places where the new manual outshines the old manual and at the time I was working from the old manual - so don't do that. Also, I have not worked with U-joints much so it stands to reason I made some small but progress stopping mistakes.

    It is a little bit tough to understand which steel rods go into which u-joints and where. Eventually after a few tries it sorts itself out because it can only be put together correctly in one way. But I did confuse things when I inserted the steel rods a bit too deep into the u-joints causing them to bind or not hinge at all (even just during installation, long before trying to turn the wheels). After a couple minutes I realized that the rods should only be inserted up to the point that they approach the u-joint hinge (not where they are in the u-joint hinging area). Probably another inexperience sort of thing, but once that was figured out things loosened up and fit pretty well... although...

    After putting the steering wheel on and tighting all the screws (set screws too) down there is a small amount of binding when turning the wheel just off center to both the right and left. I'm not sure how to iron this out - or if I should try until I have the power steering actually connected and running, or if it's better to wait for alignment time... Again, this is one of those things that I've noted but I'm not sure when the right time is to fully resolve it (or really how to fully resolve it).

    20190412_222525.jpg

    I don't know how the following thumbnail got attached... forum gremlins or something...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by welske; 04-16-2019 at 11:01 PM.

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    Finally - we installed the fuel tank. A small issue here is that the strap loop is too small to simply slide in the bolt. We threaded it in.

    Also, the fuel straps are just BARELY long enough to get the tank + plastic tank shield in (probably on purpose). We found that we did have to bend the lip of the fuel tank as indicated in the video. We also found that jacking the tank up helped. We also did a little bending on the strap in places that it had some clearance between the tank and the strap to get the slack out. In the end it fits - but one thing I'm a little wary of is how tight to ratchet the straps - I wonder if it is possible to puncture or bend the tank in some way by over tightening the straps.

    Also, we installed the components in the tank as the manual(s) indicate. But I am unsure that I'll need to keep the fuel filter on it. I'm even more inexperienced in fuel lines than the previous tasks and I'm seeing things about whether a non-EFI based application should or should not have a fuel filter inline with the fuel from the tank. For now, it's there, but the next part is fuel lines so I'm going to have to get some answers to move forward.
    Attachment 105861
    Last edited by welske; 04-16-2019 at 11:05 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by welske View Post
    Also, we installed the components in the tank as the manual(s) indicate. But I am unsure that I'll need to keep the fuel filter on it. I'm even more inexperienced in fuel lines than the previous tasks and I'm seeing things about whether a non-EFI based application should or should not have a fuel filter inline with the fuel from the tank. For now, it's there, but the next part is fuel lines so I'm going to have to get some answers to move forward.
    Attachment 105861
    Just read up to here, looks like you are learning/growing and overcoming all the little obstacles that come with building a custom car. You guys seem to be doing great...
    As for the fuel pump filter question... Yes, you will be leaving the "PreFilter" on the fuel pump. Just be sure to orientate it the correct way. In my tank, and I'm sure yours, that means the pre filter will be going left to right inside the tank after installed. Just be sure to really push it on to the pump completely. It is only held on by the friction fit/little bit of metal into plastic bite. Also, you will want the inline fuel filter installed. Nearly always this is somewhere in the line between the pump and carburetor. Most seem to mount it on the Passenger side just after the fuel line exits the tank as the build manual states.
    This is an example.
    IMG_1479.jpg
    And in the for what it's worth column, This location will allow for a pretty easy replacement of the filter if needed. Just inside the rear wheel area, remove the wheel, reach up and loosen the hose style clamp and disconnect the lines from either side and slide it out. Just remember to have the screw/hex head of the clamp facing down when you tighten it up.

    Hope this helps...

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 (#8 of 20) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    Build Thread Click Here / Registry Entry Click Here / BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
    Carb/Heater/Heated Seats/Cruise Control/Drop Trunk & Battery/Custom Cubby

  21. #21
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    That does help! Great info! Thanks!

    And the picture you included looks just like how I have it mounted, so I appreciate that you took the time to post it.

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