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Yes it is. That was my previous project.Originally Posted by Frank818
Thanks Art, I looked through there earlier, but it looks like a few of the pics are no longer valid, so you can't see anything. I could see some of it in his time-lapse once I knew that is where I needed to be looking. Turns out I don't think I need to raise it up. The way the restomod-air unit fits, your feet can slide behind it.
Odd - the pictures of the frame mod are fine for me - at least ones I looked at.
Does anyone know where I could get something like this US Based in 5/8" for heater hose? I've found a half dozen but they are all in Europe, I don't want to wait weeks for them to show up. All I can find US based in 3/8" for fuel hose.
tsd16to16mmsingle.jpg
How about this from Amazon prime - quick get. Then drill a piece of aluminum scrap plate for tight slide on fit, and finish with some JB weld it on. ??
ICT Billet 5/8" to 5/8" Inch Hose Barb Splice Coupler Repair Fitting Adapter Connector Radiator Coolant Intercooler Heat Exchanger Fluid Designed & Manufactured in USA Bare Aluminum AN627-10A
https://www.amazon.com/Splice-Couple.../dp/B07G3K8L45
Or just mount the plate, then push the hose up tight on the fitting = trapped the adapter in place on the plate.
I didn't think about JB Weld, I was only thinking I couldn't weld aluminum with my machine. Thanks for the tip Art.
I've decided to move the AC Unit about 4 inches to the left, this will make getting the Heather hoses into any sort of bulkhead much easier. It will also place the cross brace between to vents so I will be able to raise the unit up about another 3 inches. I'll get some pictures tomorrow. Space is so tight right there.
http://www.parrautomotive.com/index....cat/cat323.htm
Dont know if you need 2 but saw these, far bottom right and thought they may work?
Also saw these
https://www.amazon.com/Beduan-Thru-B...PWBGYZZPS2J0Q6
Thanks Haakman
I did find the one's from Parr, but after shipping it was almost $55. I don't know why but I just can't convince myself I need to spend more than about $30 on this solution. I know in the scheme of how much these cars cost I should probably just get over it, but sometimes the principle of it bugs me.
The one's from amazon look they would work, not sure how I missed those.
Does anyone have an extra steering wheel clock spring, maybe a racer who didn't want a horn pulled theirs out? Mine has a torn ribbon cable on the inside, and I've spent 3 hours on it with no luck so far.
These clock springs must be made of glass. Spent all morning at the pick and pull for another one that has wires that don't work.
Guess i'll try the new dropped shipped from Hong Kong and see what kind of luck I have.
Updated pics of the AC location. This gives much easier routing of the bulkhead hoses. I'll try to get pictures of the hoses next weekend, its much different on the restomod air unit compared to the vintage air.
AC_Relocated_Front.jpg
AC_Relocated_Top.jpg
I made a separate thread for my cruise control lever mount:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...430#post401430
While I was messing with the cruise control I made a bracket to drop the steering column down and also allow you to compress the column up to 3 inches.
12_SW_Drop_Bracket_Installed.jpg
featured_preview_FFR_818_FW_Bracket_1in.png
The bracket files can be downloaded here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4197710/files
any one know how much heater hose (on average) folks are using for ac setups?
I was just thinking about that this morning, I'm not at home and can't measure, but wanted to order some. I'm going to order 50 foot, because it seems like I need to run about 28 foot, without accounting for sideways or up and down routing.
probably best idea! what routing are you going with heater hoses down one side (which?) and ac hoses down the other?
My current plan to take all of it down the passenger side so I don't have to worry about cleaning the steering and master cylinders on the drivers side of the car. I also plan to build a large plenum on the drivers side to force air into the TMIC. I may change my mind on that when I start routing and see how bulky it is.
This worked well for me on my TMIC on my R but may not work as well on an S due to the windshield.818 duct underside 2.jpg818 duct underside 3.jpg818 duct underside.jpgfront finished 818.jpg
fletch liked this post
I've spent all week traveling, which means lots of time in airports, airplanes, hotels, and ubers. This is a bad thing for my project, because it is where I start to daydream, research, and watch other builds on youtube. I've got quiet a few ideas to run by you guys, but I'm going to to them one at a time to reduce confusion.
Idea #1: Scissor Hinged Doors.
I know what you are going to say, Lambo doors are played out, every civic in my neighborhood has them... not even Lambo's have them anymore. I hear you, but I do have some reasons for considering this path.
A) My garage is very narrow and scissor doors would help entry/exit a lot.
B) It would allow me to eliminate the relief on the front of the door that is there to allow it to clear the fender. I hate that relief and if I don't go scissor hinges will probably find some other way to remove it. See picture below if you don't know what I'm talking about.
C) My wife would really like them , and as I've stated previously, impressing my wife with this project is key to unlocking my next project which will be my real dream car.
D) I've only seen 2 or 3 cars in my life that had scissors doors. They might be played out in NY or LA, but anywhere I've ever been, they are still unique.
It seems like as light as the doors are, it shouldn't be too hard.
Ok, I have to ask, what's the real dream car?
MK3.1 Roadster completed 2011
818R built with EZ36R H6 completed 2018
818R rebuild with a JDM Honda K24A
Something along the lines of a GTM or SL-C with a 100% custom body.
I ran 26', but had quite a bit left on each end for trimming. Buying 25' should be sufficient unless you get crazy with the routing:
1 - Firewall Entry.jpg
2 - Firewall exit.jpg
3 - Frame Entry.jpg
4 - Side Routing.jpg
5 - Rear FW Routing.jpg
6 - Engine Routing.jpg
7 - Trans Routing.jpg
8 - Extra to Trim.jpg
looks good! what bulkhead did you end up going with? your lines all look done really well. Did you build an H in the system or how did you handle the bypass (so that coolant kept flowing through the engine)
These are the bulkheads I bought:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B079QVYR...roduct_details
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B079QV87...roduct_details
I used these because the plate is removable. On the refrigerant lines I replaced the plate with one I 3D printed to give the bulkhead a 12 degree angle downwards.
I bought the 4-way heater valve with my kit from Restomod Air to handle recirculation.
are you planning to do the heater valve closer to the motor or up front? also do you mind sharing the cost breakdown for the resto mods kit? i know up until this vintage was the only kit used so providing that info would probably help!
I'm not sure on the valve yet because it was on back order, so I don't know physically how big it is, but most likely I will put it in the engine bay since it's the 4 way and not the 2 way, less hoses to route along the sides.
The Restomod Air system is definitely more expensive than the VA. The evaporator is $950, and it doesn't include controls. All of their control knobs are billet, and the cheapest set is $200. I called them and they sold me a set of controls with no billet knobs for $60, which I will incorporate into my stock dash knobs. So the minimum you can get into the system is $1010. It also only comes with enough hose and connectors to get from the unit to the bulkhead. You have to buy the bulkhead and all the hoses / connectors from there through the rest of the system. The Evaporator, compressor, and dryer are not included. I'm not sure what comes in the VA kit. I knew the Restomod unit was going to cost more, but living in Houston, making sure I had excellent cooling for the cabin was worth extra money to me.
Newkitguy liked this post
Just found it. Lots of reading to catch up on!
I'm at the point of abject humiliation and utter defeat.
I used the engine hoist to again lift the nose of the car up to 60" and applied a vacuum system to suck down the coolant system to -27mmHg, and it held there for 5 minutes. I then let the vacuum system suck as much coolant as it could (3.5 gallon) in, which brought it to within a couple inches of the top of the radiator. After I topped it off, I put the cap on, but the car back on the ground, and it's still overheating.
Here is a video of me taking temperature of different spots using a laser. It seems like the thermostat housing is only 135F, which would mean the thermostat is not open and that would explain why the radiator and all of the lines are so cold. I have no idea why the thermostat won't heat up, could there be an issue with my temperature probe and the motor is not as hot at the ECU thinks?
On second thought I don't think the probe is bad. It reads accurate at ambient, and it reads within 3 degrees of my laser when warm (not hot)
EDIT: I just watched your test drive video. The coolant is supposed to go into the top of the radiator and out the bottom. You have a radiator that is the opposite. This is a big problem. Just looked again, do your hose crisscross in the front of the car?
Any chance the thermostat is installed backward?
The hot water that opens the thermostat comes from 3 places.
1. The heater circuit. Do you have the "U" tube installed that came width the kit?
2. The degas tank. Is this hooked up as OEM?
3. The oil cooler. Is this hooked up as OEM?
subaru systewm.jpg
Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 03-21-2020 at 04:43 PM.
818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread
Bob
Thanks for such a prompt response.
1) Yes the hoses cross cross in the front.
2) Yes the degas is hooked up as stock
3) the U-was installed until yesterday when I plumbed you the heater core, I made sure the heater valve is open.
4) I don’t think this car had an oil cooler, there was a warmer down by the oil filter, I replaced that connection with Wayne’s mod on the degas tank side, can’t remember what I did with the other side, I will have to crawl under there and look.
5) Thermostat is not backwards, I’ve triple checked that.
I think what you call an oil warmer is the same thing I call an oil cooler.
SUB-21311AA051(1).jpg
Wayne's mod takes any air in the top of the engine into the top of the degas tank.
The bottom of the degas tank needs to go to the suction port on the water pump.
If you have Wayne's mod plumbed to the water pump. There is no way to get the air out of the top of the engine.
Bob
818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread
I’ll chase that line that used to feed the cooler and make sure it runs from the degas to the water pump.
A huge thanks to Bob and Art, who have both provided me with a lot more information on how the coolant system works and have given me good leads to follow.
A phone call from Art gave me some really good insight on how the Subaru cooling system works. What' I'm used to is American V8s where the thermostat is on top of the block where the water exits to return to the radiator That way when the block heats up, the thermostat opens, and the pump can now push water to the radiator. With Subaru having the thermostat on the inlet there is a need to push hot water from the top of the block where combustion is happening to the thermostat housing to get that warm and opening up to let the pump pull cool water in.
Let me take an aside right to say as an engineer who studied fluid flow and thermodynamics, I think having the thermostat on the inlet is an absolute asinine idea. It leaves no way to really circulate water through the block or heater core to help everything warm up. With the inlet of the pump blocked off, you are left to almost completely to conductive heat transfer to warm everything up. If you have the inlet open, but the outlet block off, but have a bypass around the thermostat that loops back into the block, then you can at least pump the water around the block so that it gets hot via convective heat transfer rather than waiting on conductive. #ENDofRANT
As Bob pointed out hot water to the thermostat can come from 3 places
1) The Degas tank (Mine is hooked into the bottom of the degas tank)
2) The Oil Filter Block
3) The heater core.
As you will be able to see in the attached diagram, I believe I have all 3 hooked up properly, but I'm still not getting hot water to the thermostat, I have some thoughts on each one:
1) Degas Tank - Even though I used a vacuum system to fill my entire coolant system, when I opened the cap of the degas tank this morning it is full of air, no liquid at all. When I put the vacuum system on it water quickly comes up into the tanks and gets spewed out the vacuum exit. Once I shut the vacuum off the coolant recedes. My degas tank has 3 lines, one out of the bottom to the thermostat housing, 1 on the top from Wayne's mod, and one on the top to the turbo. It seems like I'm not going to get hot water from the degas tank to the thermostat unless the water gets hot enough to expand through the Turbo line or Wayne's mod line, and then drain back down the bottom of the degas tank to the thermostat. Doesn't seem like this is happening.
2) The oil filler Block - I remove the actual block from the oil filter, but I just jumped a rubber hose where it used to be, so this is functions as stock. This line is at the bottom of the engine and I'm not sure how quickly the water down there heats up waiting on conductive heat transfer.
3) This is the only way i can see that the engine should be able to properly heat up, but I guess it depends on how the inside of the block is setup with water flow. The return from the heater core goes between the thermostat and the inlet of the pump. So in theory, the pump should be able to push water into the heater core and back to block, this would allow some convective heat transfer to warm up the water in the block. I have a 4 way heater valve, so even with the valve closed water will still circulate through it and back to the block.
I'm really kind of stumped here, this is a crappy setup, but it works in a stock car so I can't figure out why it won't work for me. The only thing I can see that is probably different from the stock setup is that line from Wayne's mod to the top of the degas tank, I'm not sure what used to feed the degas tank on that port.
I'm tempted to remove the stock thermostat, place one inline on the outlet of the block, and have a T right before the block that feeds back to the stock thermostat housing.
Cooling Diagram.png
Degas tank.jpg
Radiator.jpg
AZPete liked this post
I wanted to make sure I was chasing the right problem. To eliminate a bad thermostat, a blockage in the line, or a broken impeller on the water pump, I removed the thermostat and made a plate to hold the gasket in it's place:
IMG_4194.JPG
With the thermostat in place, the car took forever to warm up, but the whole system did get hot (using a laser pointer) and the fan pulled the temperature from 205 to 195 in under 30 seconds. I let it heat up and pull down 3 times with no issues.
This makes what I saw in the past make sense as well. The day I changed the thermostat the cooling system worked well, and I thought I had a bad thermostat. I realize now what had happened was I had tested the thermostat in boiling water before I installed it, so it was already hot and open when I installed it, so there were no issues with the car not warming it up enough to open.
Now I know for sure that the issue I'm chasing is not getting hot water to the thermostat so that it will open up. Still don't know how to solve it, but at least I know for sure what it is.
With a little prodding from Art, I began to try and troubleshoot why the thermostat (when installed) is not getting hot water to it. I began to look at where it should be coming from and try to determine if there were any blockages or impediments.
Reference Diagram:
IMG_0571.jpg
I started with the heater hoses because I thought that those would move the most water. I removed the hoses at points A and B in my diagram. This is the return from the heater core to the thermostat housing. I was able to use my air compressor to blow low pressure air (20psi) through the line from the back of the block (point A) to the T-Stat housing (point B), indicting that line was open. Next I unhooked the outlet of the water pump that feeds to the heater core (Point E). Then I started the motor up and made sure that the water pump was pushing water out of the feed to the heater core . It did indeed push a lot of water through that pipe (about 0.5 gpm). then I hooked my hose up on low into the feed to the heater core (point E) and let it push all the way through the core and back out the return line (Point A). This indicates that I have a free path from the water pump, through the heater core, and back to the thermostat. My only thought there is that perhaps with the T-stat installed there is not enough head on the water pump to allow it to push water out to the heater core (point E). With no thermostat it was pushing 0.5 gpm, but I'll have to test it again once I reinstall the thermostat.
I also checked the line from the degas tank (point D) to the Thermostat housing (Point C) with low pressure air, and that line is free as well.
This barb on the upper cross-over pipe is what used to feed the degas tank in the stock setup. That barb gets plugged when adding Wayne's mod.
cross-over.jpg
AZPete liked this post
Thanks.
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