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Thread: MJS Mk4 Build Thread

  1. #161
    Senior Member egchewy79's Avatar
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    I dry fit mine first w/o the sock. when standing from the rear of my tank, the fuel and return lines pointed to around 2 o'clock. my sump area inside the tank required the sock to be pointed at 12 o'clock, so I was not exactly parallel or perpendicular to the axis of the fuel lines. My sock kept popping off when putting the bracket into the tank and I had to bend the small metal tabs on the sock with a small screwdriver to get them to hold onto the pump. the pump/sock assembly was first inserted with sock facing 3 o'clock, then slowly rotated towards 12 o'clock once you get the assembly a bit deeper, taking care not to knock the sock off again on the walls of the sump area. Not as straightforward as I initially anticipated. remember to put your o ring on first and lube it with a bit of motor oil. It is possible to slip it on over the top if you forget to put in on first though.

  2. #162
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    I did look at the ProM as I have 3/8 feed and return lines run. Any reason to just do the ProM now in the build that I’m unaware of? Obviously would rather do it now rather than later. I however am using a FiTech EFI so may be different.
    I like the Pro-M hangar a lot and have used it in both Coyote builds. I too used both 3/8 supply and return lines, and decided best to finish the job with full 3/8 lines at the pump. Plus the Pro-M has an extended return line that is supposed to reduce/elimination cavitation. The video on their website is pretty convincing. Obviously it's easier to install now than it would be later when it might be necessary to drop the tank. Also, the Pro-M does require the tank opening to be slightly modified in order to get it in. I didn't find it was necessary to cut quite as much as they showed. But would probably be impossible if the opening were left stock. Something best to do before putting fuel in the tank. But having said that, I can't say whether it would make any difference in your setup or if actually necessary. You'll have to decide.
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  4. #163
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Thank you gentlemen!
    This will help greatly.
    Coupe Kit Delivered 11/10/23

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  5. #164
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    A bit of progress today while the new baby napped.
    Bled the brakes using the CNC pressure bleeding valve top. This made the process very seamless. Bench bled the masters first and followed the directions others have posted. I found my mountain bike shock pump worked perfect for this. Just a continuous cycle of pressure, bleed, close nipple, check reservoir level and repeat ad infinitum until no sign of bubbles. Same process as my MTB only larger.



    After bleeding the pedal remained hard and I only had to tighten down a couple fittings slightly on the back run, otherwise everything was bone dry after holding the pedal down for awhile.

    In contrast to my prior claim, I actually ended up draining the differential and refilling it because I wasn’t sure if there was friction modifier in it. I wish I could have left it alone but couldn’t stop thinking about it, so either way it’s done and I know exactly what’s in it now. I must say the level is exactly the same after refilling it to spec.
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  7. #165
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Now that I’ve put the wheels on the rear end I planned to torque the hub nuts down.
    I am hitting 250ft-lbs before I get to the “98ft-lbs then 45 degrees” specification.
    Anyone else run into this.


    Leaving it at 250ft-lbs
    Last edited by MSumners; 07-27-2019 at 01:17 PM.
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  8. #166
    BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Now that I’ve put the wheels on the rear end I planned to torque the hub nuts down.
    I am hitting 250ft-lbs before I get to the “98ft-lbs then 45 degrees” specification.
    Anyone else run into this.


    Leaving it at 250ft-lbs
    Not understanding the 250 ft lbs.... that is not the torque for those... the torque is 98 + 45* that is what the requirement is. It is not easy, but it will go as long as you have everything locked down so it doesn't turn.

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  10. #167
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    I was a couple of degrees shy of the 98 + 45*. I would say that I was roughly 42-43 degrees and it just wouldn't go any more. If you look to end of the manual on page 313, it says to torque the rear axle nuts to 175 ft-lbs. So looks like something wasn't updated.
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  11. #168
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cv2065 View Post
    I was a couple of degrees shy of the 98 + 45*. I would say that I was roughly 42-43 degrees and it just wouldn't go any more. If you look to end of the manual on page 313, it says to torque the rear axle nuts to 175 ft-lbs. So looks like something wasn't updated.
    Thanks for spotting that somehow missed it and I will check.
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  12. #169
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAsp427 View Post
    Not understanding the 250 ft lbs.... that is not the torque for those... the torque is 98 + 45* that is what the requirement is. It is not easy, but it will go as long as you have everything locked down so it doesn't turn.

    My statement should have read, ‘leaving at 250 until I get more info’
    Agreed it has to be exactly to spec, but something seemed to be off as I was using a 3/4 “ drive and hitting 300lb before going near 45 degrees.
    Last edited by MSumners; 07-29-2019 at 10:06 AM.
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  13. #170
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Actually page 313 for me is only roll bar instructions.
    The only thing I can find is still 98 + 45 degrees.

    I apparently just needed to go higher. Incrementally ratcheting up the torque wrench to get to the 98+ 45 ended up being about 315ft-lbs for me.
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  14. #171
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    I would say at this point the 5$ kids pool used to pressure test AN lines has been the cheapest and most multi-functional tool of the build.
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  15. #172
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    After testing the brakes for about the tenth time decided to get it off the dolly and make it a roller.
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  16. #173
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Found it CV , again thanks for the update!
    pg. 321 in my book.
    Not sure how so much discrepancy between this recommendation and the level I hit to get to the 98+45 degrees recommendation?
    I’ll have to check with F5 tech
    Last edited by MSumners; 07-29-2019 at 06:25 PM.
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  17. #174
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Found it CV , again thanks for the update!
    pg. 321 in my book.
    Not sure how so much discrepancy between this recommendation and the level I hit to get to the 98+45 degrees recommendation?
    I’ll have to check with F5 tech

    Checked with F5 tech about the IRS axle nut torque specifications. I was told 220-250ft-lbs. Going to put the socket back on and verify it at 250ft-lbs.
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  18. #175
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    A workflow question for the forum.
    I’m currently at the rolling chassis stage and wondering when the best time to do insulation and sound proofing would be. I’ve decided on the Lizard skin products so I’ll be masking everything off.
    Currently the brake lines are bled and re-tested and good to go. Fuel system is plumbed and ready. I’ve loosely put the rear harness in place with plans for some trimming. The engine and trans are mated and ready to go in later.
    My question is- prior to riveting the cabin sheet metal in and spraying the lizard skin what else should I finish or test?
    Thanks again for all the guidance.
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  19. #176
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    If you're going to do Lizard Skin, sounds like you're ready to final attach the panels and spray away. I wouldn't put any more in the cockpit than you already have. Just that much more to mask and work around. Since you have the brakes installed that would mean you have the Wilwood pedal box and MC's installed? I can tell you from experience that won't be fun to mask or spray around. You may find you want to brush the area around the top of the DS pedal box.
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  21. #177
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    If you're going to do Lizard Skin, sounds like you're ready to final attach the panels and spray away. I wouldn't put any more in the cockpit than you already have. Just that much more to mask and work around. Since you have the brakes installed that would mean you have the Wilwood pedal box and MC's installed? I can tell you from experience that won't be fun to mask or spray around. You may find you want to brush the area around the top of the DS pedal box.
    Thanks for the info. I do have the pedal box installed already and after looking at the footbox appreciate the difficulty here. My tentative plan is to leave the outside and top of the DS footbox off until final riveting them after go-cart stage in case I need access. I will likely try to mask the edges/overlap of these panels and spray them at the same time as the cockpit and trunk.

    I spent an hour or so tonight going back through and checking the centering on the steering rack after reading the recent thread posted. Sure enough I was off about .2” to one side when actually checking the correct measurements. I had already installed the Breeze bushings and now I fully appreciate their function. They made the adjustment so painless! I would definitely recommend. So now it’s centered correctly following others great advice.
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  22. #178
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Working on the radiator and the breeze mounts. Should the fan be mounted so the electrical hookup is at the top or bottom?
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  23. #179
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Working on the radiator and the breeze mounts. Should the fan be mounted so the electrical hookup is at the top or bottom?
    I put the fan electrical connector at the bottom. The fan wires are included with the bundle that crosses over from left to right. I put this bundle along the bottom, and it tucks in nicely on the underside of the body once installed.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
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  25. #180
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Changing build plans means the budget is completely out the window and things I’m posting for sale.
    Taking pictures and posting in the sale section.

    GPS FFR gauges
    Black rollbar
    Fuel level sender
    Padded dash with glovebox
    Quickjacks
    Bare steel pipes
    Clutch cable
    Accel pedal and cable
    More to list I’m forgetting
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  26. #181
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Some minor progress lately.
    Finished the initial installation of the breeze upper and lower radiator mount and front battery box.
    After having the rear harness in and out about 8 times, doing some minor trimming, re-arranging and adding an extra wire for the trunk LED’s I think it’s nearly ready.
    On average I would say 50% of ‘build time’ is spent staring at things and planning these days.
    Also made the expensive excellent decision to go with Classic Instruments gauges. I couldn’t resist a Michigan company producing such fine pieces.

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  27. #182
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    First time putting together a fuel pump, seemed straightforward but thought I would post and see if anyone notices issues before it goes in?
    Thanks again
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  28. #183
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Looking good! Regarding the fuel pump, I tested some of the Raychem DR-25 shrink in fuel for about two weeks before I installed, and it swelled up. Maybe I had a bad batch of it or something, but thought I'd mention it. Is that blue painter's tape on the ends? Paul (Edwardb) turned me on to the Perma Seal butt connectors. They are the real deal when it comes to chemical resistance. That was all I used when hooking the pump up.
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  29. #184
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tip on the heat shrink, I’ll have to look into it again. I purchased mine from McMaster and it was the one specifically labeled fuel resistant but I will check into it. The blue is actually just the 10Ga wire, which as well is labeled gasoline resistant so I believe should be fine. Certainly interesting about the Raychem swelling up though. I did soak the Dr-25 for 24 hrs and it was unchanged but not 2 weeks long. I was going to use the permaseal but the two wires were different sizes, 10awg-12awg so I just soldered them together.
    Thanks!
    Mike

    Quote Originally Posted by cv2065 View Post
    Looking good! Regarding the fuel pump, I tested some of the Raychem DR-25 shrink in fuel for about two weeks before I installed, and it swelled up. Maybe I had a bad batch of it or something, but thought I'd mention it. Is that blue painter's tape on the ends? Paul (Edwardb) turned me on to the Perma Seal butt connectors. They are the real deal when it comes to chemical resistance. That was all I used when hooking the pump up.
    Last edited by MSumners; 09-19-2019 at 08:45 PM.
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  30. #185
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    I was going to use the permaseal but the two wires were different sizes, 10awg-12awg so I just soldered them together.
    Hey Mike. Just for future reference, they do make Perma Seal connectors with different gauge ends. Might come in handy for other parts of the build.
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  31. #186
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cv2065 View Post
    Hey Mike. Just for future reference, they do make Perma Seal connectors with different gauge ends. Might come in handy for other parts of the build.
    Thanks, I should have known that. In fact Paul even told me that now that I look back at his message, it just didn’t click.
    Thanks again.
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  32. #187
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Vector W8 at the car show today
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  33. #188
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    I still have some of the dr-25 heat shrink and I love an experiment so I’m going to soak it for the foreseeable future and post how it looks
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  34. #189
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Ultimately the fuel pump hanger was just an itch I had to scratch. I switched out for the Pro-M to keep full 3/8 send and return lines. Probably not needed but now I can stop thinking about it. I just took the pump off of the Walbro and transferred it over. Created new lines, tested in the pool to 125psi and re-installed. Pending the results of the heat shrink longer term gas bath it should be final installed.

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  36. #190
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    72 hrs heat shrink gas soak and all is well.
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  37. #191
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Because of this build I now get personal letters from my local Ace hardware thanking me for my business. I’m sure this is fairly widely experienced.
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  38. #192
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    I soaked the ray-chem dr-25 heat shrink and another slightly cheaper polyolefin option in gas for 10 days now due to a concern about using it on the in-tank fuel pump wiring.
    All sections appear unchanged and I think this experiment is over. Good to know the pump can stay in place.. at least for now.

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  39. #193
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    After some minor debate decided to do the RT drop trunk modification. I really couldn’t see a down-side to this and now would be the time to get it done. The assembly, fitting and placement are very straightforward and the kit I received went together perfectly. With dropping the tank, box assembly, drilling, marking, re-drilling, trunk marking and cutting, de-burring and placement, it probably took me a full 4 hours and well worth the time spent.



    Marked out the trunk lid with silver sharpie.


    Cut out easily with a jigsaw after drilling the corners.


    After cutting the opening for the box per the instructions, definitely replace the trunk sheet and mark the locations of the cross beams from underneath. After this I re-cleco’d the whole thing together and extended the lines to the box to make the small indentation cuts with a dremel. 3 of the bars were exactly where they were marked but one was off by exactly one bar width. I rechecked this a couple times before I cut.


    I still have to mark and trim the excess lip around the dropped area but it’s in and the cuts lined up exactly.
    Last edited by MSumners; 10-01-2019 at 08:33 PM.
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  40. #194
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Theoretically, if someone were to get rid of their fuel level sender and subsequently realize they actually needed it, where might one go about obtaining a new one. Asking for a friend of course.
    Thanks in advance.

    p.s. classic instruments sends their own 240-33 ohm sending units but it will not fit the roadster tank. It looks like a converter has to be used.
    Last edited by MSumners; 10-02-2019 at 09:36 PM.
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  41. #195
    Boydster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Theoretically, if someone were to get rid of their fuel level sender and subsequently realize they actually needed it, where might one go about obtaining a new one. Asking for a friend of course.
    Thanks in advance.

    p.s. classic instruments sends their own 240-33 ohm sending units but it will not fit the roadster tank. It looks like a converter has to be used.
    Hahaha! Done that kinda thing before.

    Fox 87-93 Mustang sender... that's where your stock tank came from.
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  42. #196
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Thanks got one ordered. Your build is looking awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boydster View Post
    Hahaha! Done that kinda thing before.

    Fox 87-93 Mustang sender... that's where your stock tank came from.
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  43. #197
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Trimmed the edges of the drop trunk. Should I put a sort of gasket under the access panel on the drop trunk or is this not an issue? Now just have to wait to get the fuel sender re-installed and I can button up the rear end before lizard skin.
    Coupe Kit Delivered 11/10/23

    Roadster Build thread: 2019-2022 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...4-Build-Thread

  44. #198
    Boydster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Maryville, TN
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Thanks got one ordered. Your build is looking awesome.
    Thanks. Keep going, yours is lookin really good...
    ---Boyd---
    MkIV #9042 build thread
    www.boss427.us
    427W, TKO600, Moser 3.55 rear.
    Delivered Feb 2017, Graduated Nov 4, 2019

  45. #199
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
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    Fredericksburg, VA
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    Edwardb,

    What power steering system is preferred? Electric or hydraulic? Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Welcome fellow Michigander. From the other side of the state. Congrats on your order and sounds like a nice build. Planning power steering? You won't regret it. I loved the Dart 347 in my 7750 build. For a pushrod motor. Adding EFI is a nice touch. Will be interested to hear how it works for you. Very nice job on the safety wires. Really the first time? If you ever get over this direction, Dream Cruise, or whatever, give me a shout out. Lots of enthusiasts and a great club over here. Good luck with your delivery and settle in for a nice enjoyable build. Along with lots of others on here, ready and willing to help.

  46. #200
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Lake Orion, Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aircontroller View Post
    Edwardb,

    What power steering system is preferred? Electric or hydraulic? Thanks.
    Off topic for the build thread, but a quick response. You will get different opinions because it's not an absolute. By "electric" I'm going to assume you mean the type that uses an electric assist directly on the steering column with an electronic controller and a manual steering rack. Many have gone this way and are very happy with it. Others don't care for it and don't like the feel. I've heard just enough negative that personally I've stayed with traditional engine driven hydraulic setups. But again this is highly subjective, so take it as such. There are also electrically driven pump setups that are still hydraulic, just don't use the engine powered pump. (http://www.fastfreddiesfabrications....?id_category=4) I installed this version in a build and it works well. But the last two builds have stayed with KRC engine driven hydraulic with changeable flow valves. High end and somewhat expensive, but work very well.
    Last edited by edwardb; 10-06-2019 at 06:54 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

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