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Thread: MJS Mk4 Build Thread

  1. #241
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    For those that have used Lizard skin ceramic insulation. Was it the consistency of very thick tar? Even with mixing this stuff there is no way it’s going to ‘pour’. I would have to spoon it into the sprayer I think to transfer it. Seems completely different than the picture they show of it being poured.
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  2. #242
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    For those that have used Lizard skin ceramic insulation. Was it the consistency of very thick tar? Even with mixing this stuff there is no way it’s going to ‘pour’. I would have to spoon it into the sprayer I think to transfer it. Seems completely different than the picture they show of it being poured.
    Agreed. The ceramic doesn't easily pour. Hard to describe the consistency exactly. It's light, so not really like tar in my experience. More like real thick cake batter. (How's that for scientific?) Bottom line is whether it will spray OK. Using the Lizard Skin gun, I found the best setting was about 70 PSI and 2 turns out on the nozzle.
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  3. #243
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Agreed. The ceramic doesn't easily pour. Hard to describe the consistency exactly. It's light, so not really like tar in my experience. More like real thick cake batter. (How's that for scientific?) Bottom line is whether it will spray OK. Using the Lizard Skin gun, I found the best setting was about 70 PSI and 2 turns out on the nozzle.
    ��
    The cake batter is a perfect description.
    On first trial at 70Psi wouldn’t spray at all. Watered it down just a bit, still thick and seems to spray ok.
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  4. #244
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    ��
    The cake batter is a perfect description.
    On first trial at 70Psi wouldn’t spray at all. Watered it down just a bit, still thick and seems to spray ok.
    Sounds like you have it under control. As long as you get the thickness you want, and it dries OK, (which it should) you will be fine.
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  5. #245
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Just finished a 7 day on-call brutal rounding week and looking forward to hopefully some good build time over the weekend.
    I finished lizard skin and plan to work on throttle, engine fuel lines, clutch.

    It’s time to seriously narrow down and make decisions on paint scheme in the next couple months. Outside of random builds were there any resources anyone used for options?
    Last edited by MSumners; 11-27-2019 at 10:47 PM.
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  7. #246
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    A bit of progress finishing up the fuel lines and starting on the Forte mechanical throttle linkage.



    Having the adjustability in the system with the threaded sleeve makes a lot of sense. It’s reverse threaded on one end so you can just loosen the jam-nuts and make adjustments.
    I certainly wish I would have left the top of the footbox off until this was finished. Not impossible to do but makes getting wrenches in and out more difficult. As usual everything is in and out enough times that I lost count with continual small adjustments.



    Has anyone found a 3/8 shaft size flange bearing that will work for the rod going into the footbox?
    Last edited by MSumners; 11-30-2019 at 12:07 AM.
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  8. #247
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Forte mech throttle questions:

    What is a ‘normal’ pedal travel ? My current setup gets about 1.5” but seems like it would be too sensitive.

    Is it common/necessary to put grooves and set screws through the arms that the rod ends attach to?

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  9. #248
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    And yep,, I spent 2 hours wondering how it was possible I had such a short pedal travel and the block off plate was still on.
    Once that was off it was perfect.
    Love the Forte supplied set up.

    For the access into the pedal box I decided to seal it up with a sleeve bushing and grommet. After some trial and error and, as usual the third iteration, settled on a flanged .5 OD /.375 ID bushing and .5 ID grommet as shown. The length of the bushing allowed for the correct angle without being binding on the mechanism. Also, when I was playing with the pedal travel I noticed the pedal box end of the rod would get displaced off center ever so slightly and decided to add a third rod end inside the pedal box for extra support. Now rock solid and as far as I can tell ready to go.







    Last edited by MSumners; 11-30-2019 at 11:45 PM.
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  10. #249
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    Great work so far, definitely helps me plan my build out. Should have it delivered by end of Dec. As far as tires, I see you went with the Toyo R888R. What led you to that over other options? What I am finding is that the options are surprisingly thin for the spec'd sizes for 18" wheels.

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  12. #250
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradCraig View Post
    Great work so far, definitely helps me plan my build out. Should have it delivered by end of Dec. As far as tires, I see you went with the Toyo R888R. What led you to that over other options? What I am finding is that the options are surprisingly thin for the spec'd sizes for 18" wheels.
    I as well found few options for a set with all four tires and this was one of them. My decision was really simply based on recommendations of a few others that have used them and had no complaints and that they stick like glue. I however do not plan to test their limit anytime soon.

  13. #251
    Mark Eaton's Avatar
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    That sleeved grommet with a bushing is pretty slick! I wish I had thought of that...
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  14. #252
    Mark Eaton's Avatar
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    That sleeved grommet with a bushing is pretty slick! I wish I had thought of that...
    MK4 #9130 , complete kit, arrived 8/10/2017, Street Legal 2/14/2020.
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  16. #253
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Wiring question: Day 1.
    Using the classic instruments gauges so I may very well have to go to the source but figured I would check here as well.

    My question is in regards to the speedometer wiring. I notice I have a wire for both a 'speed signal' and also a 'pulse signal generator' coming from the speedometer. Not sure if both get connected?

    On the instructions included with the speedometer it says to either use a pulse signal generator wire - OR - use a VSS wire. They did in-fact send the pulse signal generator with the package.

    I'm planning on using the Molex connectors that others have described and appear pretty slick.

    Can I just hook up the connection that comes off the rear harness to the speed sensor already installed and connect the corresponding wires from the dash harness into the molex connector.

    Not even sure if I'm asking the right questions at this point. Thanks for any guidance.









    Last edited by MSumners; 12-02-2019 at 10:08 PM.
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  17. #254
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Working through the wiring and all is coming along.

    Going to work on fitting the dash soon and make it removable as is commonly done.
    Is it reasonable to install the dash without the body on for exact placement?

    When looking from the engine bay to the rear, does the top center of the dash get lined up flush with the top of the hoop ?

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  18. #255
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post

    When looking from the engine bay to the rear, does the top center of the dash get lined up flush with the top of the hoop ?
    No. There is often variation in the curve of the hoop so don't use the top/center of it as your locator . Set the dash so that you have approximately 3/16" of the end of the curved hoop visible above the dash like I show here:



    Jeff

  19. #256
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Perfect, thank you sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    No. There is often variation in the curve of the hoop so don't use the top/center of it as your locator . Set the dash so that you have approximately 3/16" of the end of the curved hoop visible above the dash like I show here:



    Jeff
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  20. #257
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    I assume these thumbscrews would interfere with the body or be inaccessible, or both?

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  21. #258
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Does this whole hex shaped barrel get removed to screw in the oil pressure sender?
    The threads on the sender are 3/8 fine.
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  22. #259
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    The hex extension stays on the engine. It should have female pipe threads where the black cap is.
    If your sending unit is not pipe threads, you will need an adapter.
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  24. #260
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    On the foot box access panel, you might be able to use the lowest one. The top two would not work on mine.
    Last edited by Railroad; 12-23-2019 at 10:30 AM.
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  25. #261
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Working through the wiring harness and came to a few questions tonight.

    I'm using a Fitech GoEFI 600 and all of the connections are completed or at least run near their respective connections.

    1: Can anyone verify which side of the fuel pump jumper I cut and which one I connect to? It looks slightly different than the manual.




    2: Can anyone else using the Fitech verify that none of these wires are needed?



    3: For the temp gauge input signal, can I splice off this connection that goes back to the ECU and run to the gauge? Otherwise I would run one from the radiator?

    Last edited by MSumners; 12-22-2019 at 10:48 PM.
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  26. #262
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    I assume these thumbscrews would interfere with the body or be inaccessible, or both?l

    The top ones will most definitely not fit or be accessible. You could use the lower ones and across the top just notch the hatch and use rivnuts, just don’t tighten those all the way down. That way you can slide the top part of the hatch into position and use the lower ones to hold it tight.
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  28. #263
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Wiring slowly continues

    I think I have all the routing figured out. Just a matter of terminating and getting it organized.

    Put the battery in and it fits like a glove in the Breeze front box.

    Last edited by MSumners; 12-28-2019 at 05:42 PM.
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  29. #264
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Will mounting the horns as shown interfere with anything ?

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  30. #265
    Mark Eaton's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=MSumners;393457]Will mounting the horns as shown interfere with anything ?

    That horn on the inside might interfere with your radiator cowl/surround panel depending on what you decide to do with those.

    Mark
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  32. #266
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Thanks again everyone for all the help

    Anyone run into this fuel pump relay jumper connection that looks quite different than the manual?




    Last edited by MSumners; 12-31-2019 at 08:20 AM.
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  33. #267
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Interesting. Looks like another version of the Ron Francis harness. Has changed several times with the several I've used. Not unusual, unfortunately, for the Factory Five manual to not keep up. Hopefully though the RF wiring manual you received is showing the version you have. That relay enables the fuel pump inertia switch. In that picture, they're using different sources to power the fuel pump (the brown wire on the LH side of the relay looking at the picture) and the relay coil (the orange wire at the bottom of the relay). In the previous version, the first picture you posted, there's a jumper powering both off the same source. Not sure why the difference. Either accomplishes the same thing. Not sure about your specific setup. You can break into either wire, and have your external EFI system power either the fuel pump directly or the relay coil.

    FYI, the inertia switch provides the ground connection for that relay. If the ground is open (e.g. inertia switch triggered) then the relay breaks the power connection to the fuel pump. The brown wire on the RH side of the relay, looking at the picture, is the power feed going to the fuel pump.
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  35. #268
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    For anyone like me new to wiring and harness work I would recommend getting the free catalog from Ron Francis. The back of it has a good sized section on basics and general rules/tips.

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  37. #269
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    This picture accurately summarizes my recent work.
    Currently carefully going through all the alterations to work with the Classic Instruments gauges and learning a lot along the way. I thought I wouldn’t like the wiring but actually truly enjoy doing it. Definitely a steep learning curve here.
    Nearly everything is wired and first start attempt should be soon. The final two connections are still the FiTech to fuse panel for the pump and fan. I need to review those connections again to make sure I know exactly where I’m tying into. From what I’ve read there seems to be a difference in whether you decide to utilize the inertia switch and relay or simply connect straight to the fuel pump. It appears this may affect some settings on the FiTech based on what specific fuel pump is being used. Again, more research is needed.
    Waiting on pipes from Gas’n and will likely be ready for first start when they arrive.
    You’ll also notice the 4awg ground wire in the box. ‘Someone’ cut that one a hair too short.

    Last edited by MSumners; 01-15-2020 at 12:36 AM.
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  39. #270
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Pulled the headers out to get ready for install and noticed I didn’t have bolts for this connection.
    Does anyone recall if they were packed with the headers in the same box or elsewhere? Maybe I missed that somehow in the inventory.

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  40. #271
    TMartinLVNV's Avatar
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    On mine, those bolts were already in place holding the two pieces together IIRC. The header bolts for the the motor were in a plastic bag in the box.

    They are grade 5 hardware bolts and locking nuts. I can measure mine for you if you just want to pick them up at Ace.
    MK IV Build #9659, 3 link, 17's, Forte 347, Sniper EFI, power steering, built for a freak sized person with 17" Kirkey Vintage seats, RT drop trunk, RT turn signal, lots of stuff from Breeze Automotive, Wilwood brakes, paint by Jeff Miller

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  42. #272
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    That would be great thanks !
    Distorted lock nuts I assume?
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  43. #273
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    When I looked at the headers closer I noticed both of the ends had some damage to them and don’t look like they would be able to form a seal.



    Last edited by MSumners; 01-23-2020 at 07:38 PM.
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  44. #274
    TMartinLVNV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    That would be great thanks !
    Distorted lock nuts I assume?

    I think these are grade 5 with a flange. I am including a picture just in case I am wrong. Yes, an evil distorted locking nut that exhausts my puny arm muscles.
    2.5" long, 3/8-16
    Last edited by TMartinLVNV; 01-23-2020 at 09:41 PM.
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  45. #275
    TMartinLVNV's Avatar
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    I am not a metallurgist and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night. But the headers are stainless steel and are pretty soft. My guess is that when you join the two parts together and tighten the nuts, they will distort to create a seal pretty easily.
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  47. #276
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    That's a good thought maybe they would. I honestly have no idea. Anyone else have any thoughts on whether this would seal up or not?
    I planned to contact FFR today but as usual work was busy from minute-one and the next time I looked up it was 6pm.
    Thanks for any thoughts.
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  48. #277
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Knocked a couple things off the list today. Something I was putting off was dismantling the mech throttle and pinning the arms to the SS bar. I realized with everything installed getting a wrench into the pedal box was going to be nearly impossible. I ended up drilling and tapping 10-32 through the arm and SS bar and securing with a 3/4” set screw.
    Then finished up the fuel vent.



    Last edited by MSumners; 01-25-2020 at 05:47 PM.
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  50. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    That's a good thought maybe they would. I honestly have no idea. Anyone else have any thoughts on whether this would seal up or not?
    I planned to contact FFR today but as usual work was busy from minute-one and the next time I looked up it was 6pm.
    Thanks for any thoughts.
    They will seal up fine. You can pull that dent up with an adjustable wrench. If you like put a little smear of anti seize on the contact circle. Put just enough you know it is there, no globs or beads. Do not over tighten the bolts. You can always snug it up, if you need too.
    Last edited by Railroad; 01-26-2020 at 10:57 AM.
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  51. #279
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Thank you sir!
    Ready to install and I’ll take the recommendation on the anti seize too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Railroad View Post
    They will seal up fine. You can pull that dent up with an adjustable wrench. If you like put a little smear of anti seize on the contact circle. Put just enough you know it is there, no globs or beads. Do not over tighten the bolts. You can always snug it up, if you need too.
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  52. #280
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Dec 2018
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    Hudsonville, MI
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like
    The header gasket is flat on one side and has this small raised ridge on the other. Does the flat side face the header ?

    Coupe Kit Delivered 11/10/23

    Roadster Build thread: 2019-2022 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...4-Build-Thread

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