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Thread: MJS Mk4 Build Thread

  1. #41
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Are these two panels at the trunk supposed to line up perfectly on fitting?
    Thanks!

    Attachment 105220
    Theoretically yes however the two 90 degree bends at the rear of the trunk floor are done by hand so some amount of error is not uncommon. I often have to trim that rear lip so that the rear valance can be pulled in far enough to meet the lower edge of the trunklid.

    Jeff

  2. #42
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Working on the front suspension, anyone see any issues prior to moving on. Trimmed the rear control arm adjustment sleeves and anti-seized them but realized I may have to go back and trim the bolt as well. Does anyone know if that is required or is trimming the rear sleeve enough?
    I always cut back the male stubs as well so that they do not bottom out inside the sleeves.

    Jeff

  3. #43
    doddmoore's Avatar
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    HEY THERE! Just now seeing this build, welcome and I look forward to reading more. Best of luck to you. I know less than anyone but hopefully I can help at some point along the way, if not I will be looking to you for help before you know it.


    Mitchell
    "Doddmoore," Mitchell Moore on facebook, Follow Tonks347Cobra on Instagram
    MK IV Complete kit, SB Ford 347, Holley Sniper EFI, TKO 500, Moser 8.8 Solid axle, Wilwoods, Power Steering
    My Build Thread: Tonks347, The Baker's Build
    Slow and steady wins the race.

  4. #44
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Thank you sir!
    So if I'm still still planning on you being my body work expert I can leave this alone correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Theoretically yes however the two 90 degree bends at the rear of the trunk floor are done by hand so some amount of error is not uncommon. I often have to trim that rear lip so that the rear valance can be pulled in far enough to meet the lower edge of the trunklid.

    Jeff

  5. #45
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    I always cut back the male stubs as well so that they do not bottom out inside the sleeves.

    Jeff
    Gotcha, I'll check back on the alignment and plan to do this.

  6. #46
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Made some simple progress this week
    I noticed a slight list to the raised area of the caster wheels so I pulled the frame off and put 4 additional 6" lag bolts into every wheel support base. If this thing collapses it will stay where it lies.
    IMG_1326.jpg

    IMG_1319.jpg
    Did some work getting things ready for the IRS. Used a Sawzall and a 6TPI blade to cut the ears off the knuckle , then just ground them down with a Dremel sander and 320 emery cloth. Tapped the two ABS holes and put set screws (1/4-20, 7/16-20) in with red locktite. Saw this on another thread and thought it was a good simple solution...
    Rented this behemoth to torque the hub nut, but bought the wrong size socket, thought it was 1 1/2 but seems like it must be 36mm.
    IMG_1337.jpg
    Then cut the 5/8 hole in the corner of the knuckle and the drill went through like hot butter... so all was buzzing along just fine, enjoying the summer afternoon and all is well. Next step I get to in the instruction book casually states about the center section preparation "...chase the front mount with a 5/8 drill bit.."

    IMG_1333.jpg
    buzzing along with the dewaldt drill, bit catches hard enough to dead stop for the entire 90# center section to do a 360.. my arm goes the opposite way, wow, ouch. It was at that exact moment I recall someone else on here doing the same thing, probably countless others actually. Now being someone who depends on my hands to work everyday I would certainly be interested if there were a smarter way to go about this. Thought about a step drill but can't find one that maxes out at 5/8, maybe some sort of reamer? hmm. Gonna have to step back here for the night.

    General observations:
    1: It is impossible to have too many clecos.
    2: If you are building a frame dolly just build it as if you're going to put a tank on it.
    3: Look for weld spots to grind down before fitting and drilling position holes into the frame.
    3: When the build manual casually says to 'chase' something proceed with caution.


    Update: Ordered one of these reamer bits, looks like a smarter solution. We shall see.
    177C22A2-7C4D-4D67-8607-CA4C296F3D8E.jpeg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by MSumners; 04-09-2019 at 10:12 PM.

  7. #47
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Did you folks drill and rivet this bottom edge of the passenger footbox through the two panels into the frame?
    FDE868CE-BF5C-4566-94B9-BAF9CE23388B.jpeg

  8. #48
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doddmoore View Post
    HEY THERE! Just now seeing this build, welcome and I look forward to reading more. Best of luck to you. I know less than anyone but hopefully I can help at some point along the way, if not I will be looking to you for help before you know it.


    Mitchell
    Thanks appreciate any help!

  9. #49
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    I'm a little late to the party, but here are a couple of thoughts on a few of your items:

    - The threaded rods/bolts inside the adjuster sleeves are MUCH harder to cut than the aluminum sleeves. Being inherently lazy, I decided that cutting one was easier than cutting two so I cut one of them on each arm equivalent to the sum of the two pieces I took of the sleeve. I hope that makes sense. IOW, if I took 3/16 off each end of the aluminum sleeve, I took 3/8 off of one of the bolts. That still leaves a ton of thread inside the sleeve, and it also avoids the need to have to try to cut the one bolt that's welded onto the ball joint plate on the one arm.

    - As far as chasing those 5/8 holes, I had the same experience as you except I was using a cordless drill so it didn't spin the whole center section around but did spin the drill around a good ways and tweaked my wrist. What I found is that if I spin up the drill bit to max RPM first and then start drilling with very light pressure I could keep the bit speed up (and with some cutting oil on the bit) I could keep it from grabbing.

    - in case you haven't found it yet, here's the Howe Racing ball joint: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRE-22320S

    -John
    MkIV Roadster build: Gen 2 Coyote, IRS, TKO600. Ordered 10/24/18. Delivered 1/29/19. Engine installed 8/8/21. First start 9/12/21. First go-kart 9/17/21. Off to paint 4/11/22. Back from paint 12/30/22. Build thread here.

  10. #50
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    It was remarkably easy to torque to 250ft-lbs on the hub nuts using this massive wrench. It’s a free rental from Autozone, I just paid the deposit and it’s full refund upon return. Would highly recommend if anyone is looking for one.
    D7298FA6-0CFA-4A45-8527-5D730329C660.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  12. #51
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnK View Post
    I'm a little late to the party, but here are a couple of thoughts on a few of your items:

    - The threaded rods/bolts inside the adjuster sleeves are MUCH harder to cut than the aluminum sleeves. Being inherently lazy, I decided that cutting one was easier than cutting two so I cut one of them on each arm equivalent to the sum of the two pieces I took of the sleeve. I hope that makes sense. IOW, if I took 3/16 off each end of the aluminum sleeve, I took 3/8 off of one of the bolts. That still leaves a ton of thread inside the sleeve, and it also avoids the need to have to try to cut the one bolt that's welded onto the ball joint plate on the one arm.

    - As far as chasing those 5/8 holes, I had the same experience as you except I was using a cordless drill so it didn't spin the whole center section around but did spin the drill around a good ways and tweaked my wrist. What I found is that if I spin up the drill bit to max RPM first and then start drilling with very light pressure I could keep the bit speed up (and with some cutting oil on the bit) I could keep it from grabbing.

    - in case you haven't found it yet, here's the Howe Racing ball joint: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRE-22320S

    -John
    Thanks for the info!

  13. #52
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Center section front mount 5/8 drilling update: The reamer drill bit was no better and again currently feeling like my arm was nearly torn in half after round three still on the first hole. I am going to buy a 3/8 shank 5/8 bit and use the cordless as some others have recommended.

  14. #53
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Center section front mount 5/8 drilling update: The reamer drill bit was no better and again currently feeling like my arm was nearly torn in half after round three still on the first hole. I am going to buy a 3/8 shank 5/8 bit and use the cordless as some others have recommended.
    Use the cordless drill and turn the torque way down. Most cordless drills have a selector for that. That way when it grabs (and it will grab) it slips the ratchet in the drill instead of nearly breaking your arm or wrist. It will take a few stalls and bites, but goes through pretty easily after a few tries. And yes I learned this the hard way too.
    Last edited by edwardb; 04-11-2019 at 09:10 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

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  16. #54
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Use the cordless drill and turn the torque way down. Most cordless drills have a selector for that. That when it grabs (and it will grab) it slips the ratchet in the drill instead of nearly breaking your arm or wrist. It will take a few stalls and bites, but goes through pretty easily after a few tries. And yes I learned this the hard way too.
    Perfect! Thanks again. I am optimistic about round 4.

  17. #55
    JohnK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    It was remarkably easy to torque to 250ft-lbs on the hub nuts using this massive wrench. It’s a free rental from Autozone, I just paid the deposit and it’s full refund upon return. Would highly recommend if anyone is looking for one.
    Wow! That's a beast of a torque wrench. Thanks for the tip. I have a 1/2" drive torque wrench that will max out at 250 ft-lbs but it's half the length of this one so it would be a fight to get to that torque. I'll have to track one of these things down when I get to that step here shortly.
    MkIV Roadster build: Gen 2 Coyote, IRS, TKO600. Ordered 10/24/18. Delivered 1/29/19. Engine installed 8/8/21. First start 9/12/21. First go-kart 9/17/21. Off to paint 4/11/22. Back from paint 12/30/22. Build thread here.

  18. #56
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Stupid question for the Day # 1.

    It’s ok to take an angle grinder and smooth some of these weld spots down so panels fit flush? As below.
    0D13B376-4194-45F0-BFA4-2A4314E7EF15.jpeg

  19. #57
    Straversi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Stupid question for the Day # 1.

    It’s ok to take an angle grinder and smooth some of these weld spots down so panels fit flush? As below.
    0D13B376-4194-45F0-BFA4-2A4314E7EF15.jpeg
    Yes, you can. Most of the time, I found it easier to notch the panel with snips or a Dremel. No paint to fix that way.

    -Steve
    Mk IV #8901 - Complete kit, Coyote, TKO-600, IRS. Ordered 5/23/16, Delivered 7/14/16, First Start 8/13/17, First Go-Kart 10/22/17, Registered and Completed 10/18/18. Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...V-Coyote-Build Graduation Thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-Roadster-8901

  20. #58
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Nice, finally worked through the full size picture posting.

    Just working on panels over the last week. Everything south of the firewall has been fitted, marked, drilled, de-burred, re-attached, re-drilled. It’s hard to fight the urge to put clecos everywhere. Once everything is done in the next week I’ll send them off for powder coat.

    Last edited by MSumners; 04-18-2019 at 05:56 PM.

  21. #59
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Did anyone have to trim the inner sleeve of the center section mount bushings down. The rear mounts were the perfect length but the inner sleeves of the front mounts hang out about 2mm on the other side


  22. #60
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    I just installed my center section a few weeks ago. I torqued the rear mounting bolts first, and that pulled the center section back tight to the frame. In that position, the two front mounts are pulled backwards slightly away from the frame. The attached photo isn't great, but if you look closely at the rear part of the front PS mount, you'll see that the bushing is pulled away from the frame mount by ~2mm. The DS is the same way. I think your inner sleeves should work fine the way they are.

    MkIV Roadster build: Gen 2 Coyote, IRS, TKO600. Ordered 10/24/18. Delivered 1/29/19. Engine installed 8/8/21. First start 9/12/21. First go-kart 9/17/21. Off to paint 4/11/22. Back from paint 12/30/22. Build thread here.

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  24. #61
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Did anyone have to trim the inner sleeve of the center section mount bushings down. The rear mounts were the perfect length but the inner sleeves of the front mounts hang out about 2mm on the other side

    My inner sleeves were identical. I called FFR about the small gap when tightening, and they said that's how it was designed and to proceed.
    MKIV Roadster - #9380 - Complete Kit - Delivered 7/17/18 - SOLD 5/2023
    Build Thread #1: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...V-Build-Thread
    MKIV Roadster - #TBD - Complete Kit - Delivered 11/6/23 - In Progress
    Build Thread #2: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...Build-Thread-2

  25. #62
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cv2065 View Post
    My inner sleeves were identical. I called FFR about the small gap when tightening, and they said that's how it was designed and to proceed.
    Thank you!
    I appreciate the response from you both! Until I read this I was planning on hammering them out and trimming. Thanks for the insight.

  26. #63
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Question for the forum:
    Fitting the cockpit back wall aluminum.
    o
    To line up the rear square bar with the cutouts for the seatbelts, I ended up with this uneven edge where it meets the corner panel.


    The other side is similar but a hair less.
    Should I re-fit this or will it end up ok?

  27. #64
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    First experience with the POR15 line of paint.. this stuff means business. My son wanted to ditch the sidewalk chalk and got in on the action for a bit.


    Still contemplating what to do about the aluminum mismatch as above, in the meantime installed the front swaybar. Only had to file out the bolt-holes on the swaybar itself and was a smooth install. Waiting on some parts to have enough to install the steering or IRS, but plenty to keep me busy in the meantime.

  28. #65
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Question for the forum:
    Fitting the cockpit back wall aluminum.
    To line up the rear square bar with the cutouts for the seatbelts, I ended up with this uneven edge where it meets the corner panel.
    The other side is similar but a hair less.
    Should I re-fit this or will it end up ok?
    The 3/4-inch bar cutting through the opening is intentional. That's to prevent the shoulder strap from chafing against the aluminum since it wraps over from the below in the trunk. As for the mis-match on the corners, I don't remember that on the ones I've done. Attached a picture of my #8674 build which shows them lining up pretty well. If you're sure the rear wall is down as far as it will go, e.g. to the cockpit floor, not much you're going to do there. You could raise the corner pieces slightly if it's not too late. But could be trimmed if needed and bulb seal goes across there anyway, which can absorb some difference.

    Last edited by edwardb; 04-20-2019 at 10:37 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  29. #66
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Few extra rivet holes no one will see and straightened the whole section out.

  30. #67
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Ordered aftermarket Moog power steering rack ends, are they supposed to be different?

  31. #68
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Ordered aftermarket Moog power steering rack ends, are they supposed to be different?
    Mine were the same. Looks like you have two different ones. I ordered the Moog es2150rl tie rod ends.
    MKIV Roadster - #9380 - Complete Kit - Delivered 7/17/18 - SOLD 5/2023
    Build Thread #1: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...V-Build-Thread
    MKIV Roadster - #TBD - Complete Kit - Delivered 11/6/23 - In Progress
    Build Thread #2: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...Build-Thread-2

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  33. #69
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cv2065 View Post
    Mine were the same. Looks like you have two different ones. I ordered the Moog es2150rl tie rod ends.
    Gotcha, that’s what I figured just making sure. That’s the order number I used as well. I’ll just send these back and try a different supplier.
    Thanks!
    Mike

  34. #70
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Header Question: Anyone using a Dart 347 EFI use shorty or long headers? And for any reason in particular?

  35. #71
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Does anyone rivet this whole section of the driver footbox together prior to powder coat or should they all be done separately

  36. #72
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    May not look like much but I think it took two hours to get this one panel aligned as well as I could using the improvised wooden-block sheet metal brake.





  37. #73
    Boydster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Does anyone rivet this whole section of the driver footbox together prior to powder coat or should they all be done separately
    With the drivers footbox outer panel and it's kick-out, I'd assemble, then powdercoat. No need to do the kick-out pieces seperately. However, be very careful with the silicone. Any silicone at all that squeezes out will prevent powdercoat from sticking.

    I saved the powdercoat for panels that would be seen and got the most abuse. I simply painted this panel on my car.
    ---Boyd---
    MkIV #9042 build thread
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    427W, TKO600, Moser 3.55 rear.
    Delivered Feb 2017, Graduated Nov 4, 2019

  38. #74
    Senior Member cv2065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Does anyone rivet this whole section of the driver footbox together prior to powder coat or should they all be done separately
    I drilled and then sent them to powdercoat separately, then assembled when I got them back. I'm sure either way will get the same result.
    MKIV Roadster - #9380 - Complete Kit - Delivered 7/17/18 - SOLD 5/2023
    Build Thread #1: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...V-Build-Thread
    MKIV Roadster - #TBD - Complete Kit - Delivered 11/6/23 - In Progress
    Build Thread #2: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...Build-Thread-2

  39. #75
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cv2065 View Post
    I drilled and then sent them to powdercoat separately, then assembled when I got them back. I'm sure either way will get the same result.
    Thanks for the info gentlemen, I hadn’t thought of the silicone yet. I think I’ll just take exploded view pics on disassembly and coat them separately.

  40. #76
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cv2065 View Post
    Mine were the same. Looks like you have two different ones. I ordered the Moog es2150rl tie rod ends.

    Couldn’t return the tie rod ends as I bought them on EBay and can’t get any response from the seller.
    Ordered some from local auto parts store but they wanted 62$ each. Would love to support them but 2 delivered next day on amazon for 50$.
    Last edited by MSumners; 05-02-2019 at 02:37 PM.

  41. #77
    JohnK's Avatar
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    You'll want to check the service temperature of whatever adhesive you use, and then find out what temperature your powder coater bakes at. The PC shop I use bakes the zinc primer at 400 F and the top coat at 500 F. I'm not sure all adhesives can withstand that temperature.
    MkIV Roadster build: Gen 2 Coyote, IRS, TKO600. Ordered 10/24/18. Delivered 1/29/19. Engine installed 8/8/21. First start 9/12/21. First go-kart 9/17/21. Off to paint 4/11/22. Back from paint 12/30/22. Build thread here.

  42. #78
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnK View Post
    You'll want to check the service temperature of whatever adhesive you use, and then find out what temperature your powder coater bakes at. The PC shop I use bakes the zinc primer at 400 F and the top coat at 500 F. I'm not sure all adhesives can withstand that temperature.
    Thanks for the heads up!
    Wouldn’t have thought of that. I’ll just plan to have them PC prior to assembly

  43. #79
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    I’m not close to finalizing placement of panels yet but drilling this area got me thinking. Which way do you face the head of the rivet for this intersection where the clecos are?

  44. #80
    Senior Member Higgybulin's Avatar
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    I think you have to go opposite of the Celco's, from inside the footbox to inside the engine bay. When you put the motor in, you wont be able to see a thing.
    Higgy
    New MK4 kit picked up 4/10/23!!!
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    MK4 #9759 picked up on 4/3/19
    351C, 3 link, 17's, dual roll bars

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