Midwest Classic Insurance

Visit our community sponsor

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: The Barbers “Built on Tips” roadster

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    The Barbers “Built on Tips” roadster

    Hey all. I’m starting a build thread even though I haven’t ordered my kit yet.

    First off...a little about me. I’m a Barber by trade and own my own shop in southeast Tennessee. I’m an Army Veteran and a complete gear head. I’m no stranger to turning wrenches. I have a couple of other projects going but a MKIV Roadster is one of my dream builds. I had a mk4 ordered once before back in 2012....I had paid my deposit....had the money in the bank to pay it off....but before my kit was finished my Ex fiancé managed to blow through all my money while I was gone for training....needless to say I was pissed and extremely discouraged. Soon after splitting with her I sold the 408w I had for my kit along with the tko I had....now here it is several years later....I have a new fiancé who is very supportive and doesn’t blow my money. I’m building a new house a nice new shop. I have decided it’s time to make my dream a reality. This is going to be a long build...but a very detailed build. But like the title says...it will be built solely with my cash tips from work.

    The plan is to split my tips at the end of each week. Half will get saved for the future purchase of a mk4 roadster base kit. The other half will go towards purchasing the parts to finish the kit....engine, trans, brakes, wheels, fuel system...etc.

    Currently I have a 74 351w block that will be the basis for a 408w build.
    I have a 93 8.8 out of a mustang with a 31 spline carrier and Ford Racing 3:55 gears.
    And a set of side vents I had purchased for my original kit....but sold to a buddy of mine for his cobra...he never put them on his cobra and sold them back to me.

    Even tho I’m doing a basic kit build...it will be built with top quality parts.
    As I purchase parts I will post updates and plan on doing detailed build logs for the rear end and engine.

    I plan on starting the rear end build first. Axles, bearings and brake parts for the rear will be the 1st things to get ordered.

    I’m currently building a 51 shoebox ford 2dr sedan (it will be the family cruiser). A 54 F100 (shop truck). And a fiberglass 32 3w...that is being built just to be sold (all money from selling it once it is farther along will go to the purchase of my mk4)

    I know I’m jumping the gun on this but after being so close to having my dream car in the past and being screwed out of it....I’m now more determined than ever to make this dream a reality.

    I look forward to sharing my progress with you guy as we go forward on this adventure.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Senior Member Higgybulin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Southern Ontario
    Posts
    483
    Post Thanks / Like
    Welcome to the madness! Troll the classifieds and pick up the parts that people choose to upgrade. I bought a Canadian kit(which is a little less than a basic) and picked up all the parts I needed to turn it into a complete kit from forum members at great prices. Some never installed some slightly used! Good luck!
    New MK4 kit picked up 4/10/23!!!
    SOLD
    MK4 #9759 picked up on 4/3/19
    351C, 3 link, 17's, dual roll bars

  3. #3
    Senior Member bil1024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,422
    Post Thanks / Like
    Great plan

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    765
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by OldCrowBarber View Post

    Currently I have a 74 351w block that will be the basis for a 408w build.
    I have a 93 8.8 out of a mustang with a 31 spline carrier and Ford Racing 3:55 gears.
    And a set of side vents I had purchased for my original kit....but sold to a buddy of mine for his cobra...he never put them on his cobra and sold them back to me.

    Even tho I’m doing a basic kit build...it will be built with top quality parts.

    Ok, I did much the same - turned into a ten year plan - refused to work on bodywork until I got all the mechanical systems working to my satisfaction (autocross go-kart extensively, etc).

    So my experience is it depends on what YOU actually want to do with it.


    Built a 500hp / 500ftlb tq 393w - because I wanted to build it faster than an original 427 - tires, brakes, etc.


    For "street" applications - the "sweet" spot on these cars is 400/400 - any more does NOT make the car any faster 0-100. Simply more hazardous to get there as fast.

    Picture spinning the tires at half throttle in third gear from 70-100mph, and think carefully about what you want out of the car - because that is exactly what I got out of building a 10.5:1 500hp/500tq 393w with a 3.55 gear.

    Changed to a 3.15 gear - easier to deal with but still "extremely hazardous" in third - I would not build that much hp/tq for one of these cars again.


    So what exactly do you want to do with the car?


    Because street tires / use (200tw NT05 315) can NOT use / do NOT need or require 408w etc (at all)...

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post
    Ok, I did much the same - turned into a ten year plan - refused to work on bodywork until I got all the mechanical systems working to my satisfaction (autocross go-kart extensively, etc).

    So my experience is it depends on what YOU actually want to do with it.


    Built a 500hp / 500ftlb tq 393w - because I wanted to build it faster than an original 427 - tires, brakes, etc.


    For "street" applications - the "sweet" spot on these cars is 400/400 - any more does NOT make the car any faster 0-100. Simply more hazardous to get there as fast.

    Picture spinning the tires at half throttle in third gear from 70-100mph, and think carefully about what you want out of the car - because that is exactly what I got out of building a 10.5:1 500hp/500tq 393w with a 3.55 gear.

    Changed to a 3.15 gear - easier to deal with but still "extremely hazardous" in third - I would not build that much hp/tq for one of these cars again.


    So what exactly do you want to do with the car?


    Because street tires / use (200tw NT05 315) can NOT use / do NOT need or require 408w etc (at all)...

    My plan is for about a 450hp build...I want a very streetable build with an occasional track day. The car will mainly see highway cruising and curvy mountain roads. (I live near the dragons tail and the Cherohala skyway).

    I’m still working on the details for the engine build. Which rotating assembly I want to use, cylinder heads, intake (carb or efi) can,...etc. I have a lot of choice to make.

  6. #6

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
    GoDadGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    6,556
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by OldCrowBarber View Post
    My plan is for about a 450hp build...I want a very streetable build with an occasional track day. The car will mainly see highway cruising and curvy mountain roads. (I live near the dragons tail and the Cherohala skyway).

    IÂ’m still working on the details for the engine build. Which rotating assembly I want to use, cylinder heads, intake (carb or efi) can,...etc. I have a lot of choice to make.
    The sweet spot for these cars is some place between 350-400 HP.

    I'm around 450-ish HP/TQ and I can knock the wheels off the car in a heartbeat in 1st, 2nd & 3rd, but haven't tried it in 4th, 5th or 6th.
    Had I realized this sooner I would have likely toned down my combination which is shown below:

    1. 383 Small Block SHP Dart 10-1 Somewhat Pump Gas Friendly Compression Ratio!
    2. Eagle Internally Balanced Rotating Assembly With 6" H-Beam Rods With Floating Forged Flat Tops.
    3. Dart Iron Eagle 215 CC Heads with 2.05 Intake & 1.60 Exhaust Valves.
    4. Harland Sharp Roller Rockers & Other Go Fast Goodies.
    5. Comp Cam Extreme Energy 288 Hydraulic Roller Tappet Cam
    6. Edelbrock AVS 800 Feeding A Weiand 7530 Team G Single Plane Manifold.
    7. Schoenfeld IMCA Modified Headers & They Really, Really Fit, But Stuff Had To Move A Bit!
    8. New Old Stock Corvette ZF 6-Speed Transmission With Hydraulic Clutch. (.75 5th & .50 6th Gear Over Drives)
    9. Standard Front End Set Up With Mustang Brakes & Forte’s .75” Sway Bar.
    10. Standard 3 Link Moser TSD 500 Rear With 3.73 Gears & Explorer Brakes.

    If you go conservative on your engine, you'll have great drive-ability and lots of power to still shred your rear tires!

    Welcome Aboard!
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 04-19-2019 at 11:01 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    765
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post

    The sweet spot for these cars is some place between 350-400 HP.

    Had I realized this sooner I would have likely toned down my combination

    Offline discussion via PM:

    GoDadGo and I are pretty certain we would both be just as fast to 100 on 200TW tires if we had just built (conservative) 9:1 compression 351/350 cubic inch engines.

    Less expense, fewer third gear / high speed surprises / hazards.


    Good Luck - choose carefully.

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    Those are some good points to consider. I know I can get 350-400hp out of a stock bottom end with the right cam, heads and intake. I will definitely take everything into consideration.

    Heads are the key....if I were to go with the stock crank....I would still do a .30 bore and I’ve really been leaning towards a set of the Kasse P-38 heads. They are a very impressive set of heads.

    But I still have a good while to decide on the engine combo...rear end, brakes and suspension will be my first priorities.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    765
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by OldCrowBarber View Post

    I know I can get 350-400hp out of a stock bottom end with the right cam, heads and intake.

    Heads are the key....if I were to go with the stock crank....I would still do a .30 bore and I’ve really been leaning towards a set of the Kasse P-38 heads. They are a very impressive set of heads.

    But I still have a good while to decide on the engine combo...rear end, brakes and suspension will be my first priorities.

    You can really save a lot if you have patience and know exactly what you're looking for (and don't pay retail) - Craigslist / ebay / classified ads here.

    The Kasse heads are impressive, but not at all necessary (and really pricey).

    I'm running a set of TFS 170cc street heat, and they flow plenty for the 393 - used to have the rev limiter set to 6500, now at 6000 (why spin it to 6500 when you can spin the tires at will in the next gear???). I had planned to go to 190cc runners or bigger if I needed it - not needed.

    I have almost exactly the same cam grind as goDad, except mine is a solid roller - I wouldn't go with a solid roller again either - again, not necessary (hydraulic roller next time).

    Most any performance intake will do - although you'll probably get into clearance problems with the hood / body with a Victor jr or taller.

    I went with h-beam rods just for insurance (wasn't sure how hard I was going to want to spin it). Also forged pistons (TFS heads usually require clearanced pistons).

    A good rear sump road race oil pan is necessary if you get far into g-forces (mine is a Kevko, looks exactly like the Canton).



    Good Luck

  10. #10

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
    GoDadGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    6,556
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post
    You can really save a lot if you have patience and know exactly what you're looking for (and don't pay retail) - Craigslist / ebay / classified ads here.

    The Kasse heads are impressive, but not at all necessary (and really pricey).

    I'm running a set of TFS 170cc street heat, and they flow plenty for the 393 - used to have the rev limiter set to 6500, now at 6000 (why spin it to 6500 when you can spin the tires at will in the next gear???). I had planned to go to 190cc runners or bigger if I needed it - not needed.

    I have almost exactly the same cam grind as goDad, except mine is a solid roller - I wouldn't go with a solid roller again either - again, not necessary (hydraulic roller next time).

    Most any performance intake will do - although you'll probably get into clearance problems with the hood / body with a Victor jr or taller.

    I went with h-beam rods just for insurance (wasn't sure how hard I was going to want to spin it). Also forged pistons (TFS heads usually require clearanced pistons).

    A good rear sump road race oil pan is necessary if you get far into g-forces (mine is a Kevko, looks exactly like the Canton).



    Good Luck
    I'm running 215 Dart Iron Eagles on my SBC and this choice limited me to running only high port single plane intakes.
    Yea, there's a drive-able intake for a street car and like Mike-223, I'm overpowering the crap out my rears which are Nitto 555 (300TW) 285/40-17's.
    My old daily driver was 1995 C4 that made 300 ponies and 330 foot pounds of torque (Factory Rated) plus some minor mods.
    That car was fun, personable, well balanced and ran low 13's and high 12's if the weather was cool and it weighed 3,400 pounds.
    Put that same 300 HP SBC in my MK-4 and I bet it would have been a lot more enjoyable compared to my 383.
    My suggestion is to build a nice 351 that makes about 350-385 HP and you'll be better balanced than our cars.

    Good Luck From The Dark-Dart Side!
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 04-20-2019 at 10:02 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    765
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post

    and like Mike-223, I'm overpowering the crap out my rears which are Nitto 555 (300TW) 285/40-17's.

    My old daily driver was 1995 C4 that made 300 ponies and 330 foot pounds of torque (Factory Rated) plus some minor mods.

    and high 12's if the weather was cool and it weighed 3,400 pounds.

    My suggestion is to build a nice 351 that makes about 350-385 HP and you'll be better balanced that our cars.
    I'm running (pretty new) 315/35/17 NT05's and overpowering the crap out of them.


    "High 12's if the weather was cool + 3400#".


    Get it? - I'm ~2200#, and can't even hope to pass NHRA or IHRA tech to run below 13.49 in the 1/4 mile.



    How much faster do you want to go? (honest question)

  12. #12

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
    GoDadGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    6,556
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1
    My Old Vette Is Now My Pal's Old Vette!
    Drove That Sucker For 23 Years!

    https://youtu.be/svZX2BMSDEs

    Baby Go-Dad's Ride After Some Paint!

    https://youtu.be/A5WUZgl6N5Q
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 04-20-2019 at 10:43 PM.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    1st week and I managed to set aside a little over $200 in tips...Hope this is a another good week.

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    Not much to report here lately....been having a new house built. That’s has been taking up most of my time. But on the plus side we are about to start construction on a new 28x40 shop. That should give me a nice place to work on the roadster.

    And it is looking like I will get to order my roadster this coming spring.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Brown County Customs

Visit our community sponsor