Professional Motorsports Wiring Harness Venture

[Shoeless]

I finished up the WiFi sub harness this morning and installed in the GTM. Due to the size of the Deutsch ASL (yes, even as small as that thing is), I elected to run the harness through the grommet near the divers right leg in the foot box and then pin it in the ASL Bulkhead connector. Once I confirm everything is operating as intended, I'll shrink the molded boots.

Now on to creating a simple CAN Harness for the MoTeC Rotary button switch panel.

[Shoeless]

Bit of a sad day when you take a running and driving GTM and tear it apart and make it no longer running. Oh well, this is needed to finally dive in head first on the MoTeC conversion.

I started with pulling the Bosch 4.2 O2 sensors and installing the MoTeC NTK O2 and connecting to the LTC Module. I added some hose/wire guides to support the wiring. At this point the GTM will no longer run until MoTeC hardware gets here and I finish the wiring mods. The driver's side was a PITA with the intake and my PCV catch can, but it allowed me time to service that.







Next up was pulling the engine harness so that I can modify it on my pool table makeshift work bench. Making sure to cap off every Deutsch AS connector to protect them.

[Shoeless]

Major surgery had commenced. Now I need to cut this back, consolidate about 14 splices, and then pin in one Deutsch AS Connector.

Interestingly enough, I found a couple wires had cracked near a soldier sleeve (I suspect I put too much heat on it when I did then) and one ground wire that had a small nick in the insulation (can't tell if I did it depinning it or it was there before). Glad I have the opportunity to address these issues.

[crash]

Are you using Tefzel wire? I know you said earlier you were using Tefzel but if this is happening with Tefzel, this is the first time I have heard of the kind of stuff you are describing. As I mentioned before, small cuts and nicks can happen easily when unsheathing shielded cabling and extra attention should be taken to not have this issue, but I have never heard of having a heat issue with Tefzel wire. It's jacket is ridiculously strong and durable.

[Shoeless]

Yep 100% tefzel.

After closer inspection, and the pic below, I can tell this was one of my first soldier sleeves and I put WAY too much heat to it. For soldier sleeves 930 deg F is the ideal and I now have the proper gun and attachment to do it. They literally now take about 5 sec to melt the soldier and by the ends have shrunk so pull off the heat immediately. I remember when I did these originally I was concerned I didn't melt the soldier enough and I think was using my dewalt heat gun and wrong attachment. Either way they all need to be shortened to accommodate the new plugs.



I'm now methodically pulling back the DR25 to the point where the new boot will recover and starting to disassemble to get to those core shielded braided cable to redo them.

[Shoeless]

I was able to successfully cut back, re-ground the shielding, and re-splice sensor power (5V) and sensor ground for two traction control sensors, cam, crank, and the two knock sensors. Quick continuity check and kapton tape as strain relief and on to doing the same for the other two wheel speed sensors from the other plug.

[Shoeless]

Got up early this morning and knocked our more on the harness modification. First off was putting some Raychem SCL over the DR-25 were I cut it back to in order to provide additional strain relieve and have a nice clean "end" to the DR-25. Even though I will be putting a Raychem boot here, I wanted this a bit more rigid to help with all the further work. Thankfully I had some 1" SCL from my original build, this stuff is like gold trying to get your hands on right now.



I then started on cutting back and/or placing SCL on some circuits. For example, the old O2 sensor wires all got cut completely back to the edge of the 1" SCL and their respective plug in the harness got cut off and SCL on top to seal it off (making sure to seal off the main relay power wire to the O2s individually). Some of these circuits may or may not ever be used, but i do have flying leads strategically placed in the harness just in case I need a repaired circuit or an expansion. There were a couple permanent 12V wires in this bundle, so they got SCL to cover them up to not cause any issues.



To add further strain relieve I went ahead and wrapped these cut back and SCL applied circuits close around the soldier sleeves as if they were part of the center core of a concentric twist.





Before I did all the above I did a 'mock" splicing exercise with zip ties of all 10 splices I need to hide behind this boot. You can see in the pics the shorter of all the wires are the shielded cables I had to cut back and redo. I will likely start to pin this into the connector so that I can see just how much space I have to work with and then methodically start to populate the Deutsch AS connector and executing the splices as I pin the connector. I was to think that through a bit, but it seems like the most logical approach.

[Shoeless]

I was able to finish off pinning and preparing the high density Deutsch AS connector over the weekend. There were numerous circuits taken out, 9 splices, addition of LTC, addition of a terminating resistor branch, and tons of patience. Now time for a very lengthly and very time consuming continuity check.

[Shoeless]

I added the termination resistor branch this last weekend to the harness mod. I wanted to incorporate some Auto Sport Lite (Micro) plugs into the mix. Plus RS offers a termination resistor already pinned and potted in the mating connector, so I simply picked that one up.

Pretty small package.

[Shoeless]

Pretty exciting day today. 5 months of patiently waiting and finally getting my hand on this unobtanium

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Congrats! Good luck with the install!

[Shoeless]

Congrats! Good luck with the install!

Thanks Shane!!!! I was up at 5:30 this morning mounting it in place before work LOL.

[Shoeless]

Its been a busy weekend. Been working on the patch harness and its ready for DR-25 and terminating to the next connector.

66 total wires - 8 x shielded 22 ga, CAN 24 ga, and 56 x 22 ga. Only needed 3 x 22 ga filler wires to round it out. Total diameter 0.455". Also got 24 ga comms wires that will run to the wifi router.

[crash]

Not to open a can of worms here, but have you considered a racing spec PDU? They do some pretty incredible things...all via CAN.

The Motec ECU looks great by the way.

[Shoeless]

Not to open a can of worms here, but have you considered a racing spec PDU? They do some pretty incredible things...all via CAN.

The Motec ECU looks great by the way.

That would definitely open a can of worms LOL, but you are absolutely correct, they do some really cool things via PDUs here lately. Maybe in the next car I build, which I joke with my wife as the GTM has a major portion of one of the bed rooms in my house as parts storage. I have promised her she gets that bedroom here very shorty once I clear the parts out. So I don't think she is ready for my next project just yet. I have kicked around a 1,000 + HP twin turbo Ultima RS, but won't pull the trigger on that for some time, so it may change.

Thank you!! Funny thing is, I didn't realize just how small it would be until I open the package. I had 3d printed a template to use as a general mock up tool, but wow this thing is small.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I have kicked around a 1,000 + HP twin turbo Ultima RS,

[Shoeless]

Patch harness is complete (minus final boots which will be installed after firing the engine up and a test run) and temporarily installed in the GTM. Fired everything up for the first time this past weekend and success. I can sit in my living room in the AC and talk with both the C127 Dash and M170 ECU. Time to start configuring the JRR Package. Slow progress so far as I'm still learning the M1 layout and format, but I'm making progress.

[jamminj]

cool motec is great stuff.
its great to see you've got a running car now.
is your gtm fairly complete will it be drivable soon.

[Shoeless]

cool motec is great stuff.
its great to see you've got a running car now.
is your gtm fairly complete will it be drivable soon.

Well...not quite running, but the M170 and C127 are definitely alive and communicating. I'm carefully configuring the M170 to match what I had in the AEM. Going page by page in the Package is quite the process. HPA has an M1 Full Tutorial that I'm attempting to follow, but its done on a GPR package and I'm running a JRR package. Some things are similar, some are very different. Thankfully the Calibrate All tab can capture everything, just search by name and everything pops up.

When I had the AEM in the GTM, I put 500 miles of the Blueprint Engines recommended break in on the LS3/427 and had it dyno tuned. Once I get it running and driving again, it may need another trip back to the tuner as the MoTeC has several tables that are not in the AEM. It does things totally differently.

I will say I'm completely blown away at the number of items this MoTeC can do compared to the AEM. True professional grade versus a hobby ECU.

[beeman]

kicked around a 1,000 + HP twin turbo Ultima RS,

Friend of mine just took delivery of his RS kit last week, I helped uncrate it. I was impressed by the quality of the body, the front diffuser, and the headlights/taillights. I didn't get to see anything in the 39 boxes that arrived with it...He's doing a 900hp lt5 with the option of 1100hp..
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[Shoeless]

Friend of mine just took delivery of his RS kit last week, I helped uncrate it. I was impressed by the quality of the body, the front diffuser, and the headlights/taillights. I didn't get to see anything in the 39 boxes that arrived with it...He's doing a 900hp lt5 with the option of 1100hp..

That's impressive and I LOVE the color!!

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Wow!!....that RS looks fantastic!! I've loved the Ultima since it came out. I dragged my dad and my son to an Ultima get-together in 2006 so I could see one in person......my son is now married and owns a house. Time flies!


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Sorry to hijack your thread!

[Shoeless]

Not hijacking the thread at all. Love the pics!!!

[Shoeless]

After much work and help from an outside asset, I was able to get the GTM fired up and running on the MoTeC M170 over the weekend. With the WiFi needing to be on and connected to the laptop so that I could data log the starts, I needed to pull out the Infinitybox master cell lead for the normal key on starter engage circuit. This way the ignition was on, laptop connected, and I could data log and investigate. I noticed that my Engine Load axis manifold pressure was reading opposite it should be, so that was a simple fix in the tune to swap the high and low voltage in the manual calibration. Next step was getting the engine to actual fire. Worked in the Idle Tuning section of the package getting used to all the parameters the MoTeC uses in their logic. After adjusting several parameters, the main one being idle control percentage, she fired right up and actually entered idle control and followed the target RPM as the engine heated up.

Next I need to throw the timing light on it and confirm the timing and then on to tweak and perfect the idle tune.

Oh, also figured out I can't connect to both Team Viewer and the WiFi in the car at the same time, so I have a USB external modem on the way that should get here today.

[crash]

Cool stuff.

I will be interested to hear your thoughts as you progress with the tune on the Motec.

Are you going to use a tuner or do it all yourself?

[Shoeless]

Cool stuff.

I will be interested to hear your thoughts as you progress with the tune on the Motec.

Are you going to use a tuner or do it all yourself?

Thank you Sir!!

My goal was to hopefully take the old tune from the AEM, plug it into the M1 JRR Package, and hopefully fill in the blanks myself, but I may find a need to revisit the tuner. The nice part is I have the lambda target and ignition tables set, and wouldn't expect those to change, so I might be able to do some road tuning using the "Quick Lambda" function in the VE tables and get me to where I need to be.

"Quick Lambda" is a pretty cool little function within M1. You can be running the car at a fixed load with a target lambda and if your lambda readings are not tracking in line with the target, simply hit "Q" and that site in the VE table is updated, or you can hit the "W" key and it will tune the site you are operating it and the one adjacent in higher RPM and higher load.

So once I get a good idle tune and button up the harness, still need to shrink the main boots now that everything is working I'm much more comfortable doing this now, we'll get it on the road and see what I can put together.

On the C127 Dash, I'm kind of running blind. I haven't found many videos, other than the CAN Bus Communications Videos from HPA to help guide me on the CAN network setup. So its been a lot of trial and error on the dash set up. I do have every CAN device talking to the Dash correctly (I even got the AEM 6 Channel CAN Bus that has my fuel level input communicating with the dash and showing my fuel level correctly. Random question though is I need to confirm the total volume of the Boyd Aluminum Fuel tanks. Now its just outputting correctly to the M170 so it can do what I intend. I have my two dials on my steering wheel talking to the C127 and then outputting to the M170 and the M170 receiving it properly. Also have the 5 button MoTeC Rotary switch doing the same thing, I've got it talking to the M170 and see switch states changing.

Thankfully the help menu in both the M170 and C127 is guiding me in the learning. They are actually pretty helpful and I wish I would have downloaded them much earlier, but its hard to learn something just reading it. Sometimes you need to just change a configuration, send it to the car, and see if it works.

[crash]

Yes, I have found that is where people with experience really come in. Struggle with it for awhile, then I call one of my buddies that has the same electronics and have likely already figured it out, and then it makes a lot more sense as to what the fix is.

[Shoeless]

Exactly. I've got a gentleman in CA that has taken an interest in getting me set up and was the one who helped me to get it running this last weekend, David Ferguson. I had seen his name all over the HPA and Motec Forums and he offered to help. Very nice guy and really knows what he is doing.

I even sent him a text last night after doing some idle tuning earlier in the day. I could get the car started by adjusting the Idle Feed Forward table (2D table that sends out a percentage based on engine RPM and Coolant Temp to the DBW Idle Control Max percentage. Essentially you tell the ECU what is the max percentage of the throttle body opening it can use for idle tuning and then this table sends out a percentage of this Max percentage to actually use during start up. Not saying its totally tuned yet, and you'll see why in a second, but my Max TB is set to 70% and the Idle Feed Forward table at engine operating conditions (around 205 deg) is putting out a value of 43. So 43% of 70% is 30.1 and that's the target max amount of the TB to be used in Idle Control. I have a feeling the Max TB number will come down as I dial this in and therefor needing to return the Idle Feed Forward table as the engine is warming up.

I spotted an issue yesterday that didn't make sense. One bank was running lean and one rich, by a noticeable number. I looked at the closed loop fuel control and the trims for each bank were maxed out in the complete opposite direction. hmmmm. My first thought was is one cylinder misfiring. Quick check with the temp gun on the headers, and nope all firing reasonably. Tried a few more things like increasing the trim limits from +/-10% to 15%, but not much change. From what I have learned you can increase these trim limits up to about 20-25% to help while initially tuning, but they are no replacement for a poorly constructed VE table and you really need that correct. So after attempting to get decent VEs around idle and up to 2000RPM in neutral, I found some larger than what I would expect changes with the quick lambda functions.

Long story short, I have the wrong LTC (Lambda to CAN) plugged into the wrong bank, so I need to swap that. For anyone who is curious, the Duel LTCN (NTK O2s I'm using, but I'm sure is the same for the Bosch), the wire that comes out of the LTC closest to the front side of the controller with the writing, is your A plug and should go to Bank 1. I just looked at the Data Sheet and sure enough there is a small side view of the unit and sure enough says A plug is up front. Live and learn, but great to have a phone a friend to help learn the ins and outs.

[crash]

I have to tell you that I am considering the M190 for a new engine project. I have to ask why you did not go with an M190 that has the built in Lambda functionality? Did you have the interface box already from the other install?

[Shoeless]

Hey crash,

From my experience so far in the M1 Platform and the C127 complimentary dash, you can't go wrong.

I did promise to keep the group updated with my progress on using the software and the capability, and I'm finding I'm just scratching the surface of functionality. When I say you can literally do anything you want, I'm finding that statement to be more and more true. I did have to reach out to Joel at RaceSpec for some help on CAN bus structure for a few CAN messages and a handful of functions I wanted to add with the 5 button rotary keypad as well as a quick tutorial setting up launch control and traction control setup. He paired me up with a colleague, as he has been unexpectedly out due to some medical issues, and I spend an hour the other day getting some help. Within that hour, we had the previous CAN messages I set up cleaned up, and added all the additional functions I wanted. Now I need to go out and do a little driving today to see if the cruise control behaves the way we set it up. There's no sense in flexing the launch and traction control as I've decided I should head back to the tuner to redo my VE table and double check my idle setup. I found one major flaw in my AEM Infinity tune, had the displacement of the engine defaulted to 6.2L (I believe), when in reality its a 7L being bored and stroked to 427. I discovered this when I was cross referencing the AEM tune and setting up the M1 tune. I've been able to adjust the VE table a bit and do some road tuning, but it really needs some time on a load bearing dyno to set it up correctly.

Now to the M170 vs M190 discussion. It really came down to what I needed the ECU to do and how many inputs and outputs you need. Speaking with Joel when I first started looking at the M1 platform, he shared that he built and tuned a GTM running and LS3 and sequential gearbox on an M130 and I believe a C127 (this is important as the MoTeC dashes have Input/Output expansions as well as multiple CAN busses that you can use to build on what you need to run your setup).

Here is a comparison chart of the ECUs. I'm sure you are aware, but there are different "Packages" to choose from and each adds more functionality. There is GPA (General Purpose Automotive), GPR (General Purpose Race), GPR-P (not sure what the P is), Development (you write your own software), and JRR (John Reed Racing - He offers his own packages). I went with the JRR package.

https://www.motec.com.au/gpa-m190/gpa-m190-ft/

Looking at these charts and the GPR package, a few things stand out. The M190 can run a 12 cylinder engine versus the M170 can only run an 8 cylinder, not an issue for you. Injector wise the M190 can run low side outputs for injectors while the M170 can only do Peak and Hold. Then it's really how many inputs and outputs do you need and CAN busses. For a reference, I have my M170 close to maxed out with I/O. I have one UDIG open one one Half Bridge open. The M170 has one CAN bus while the M190 has three. The C127 helped me out here as it has two CAN busses and is considered a bridge as it can take in additional I/Os and information from the second CAN bus and send it to the M170 on the first CAN Bus. I needed this as my fuel tank level sensor is hooked up to an AEM 6 channel CAN bus expansion module and running at 500 mbps. So on my first CAN bus I have the M170, C127 (CAN1), LTC-D NTK (wide bands), GPS (actually I think this is on one of the RS232 receive pins), and 5 Button Rotary Key Pad all running at 1Mbps. On the second CAN bus on the C127 is the AEM expansion module I mentioned for the fuel level sensor so I can see the fuel level on the dash. I can now also run fuel predictions and a few other race type options, that I'm sure you would use much more than me at the moment. I could also import another .dbc file into the C127 from the AEM expansion module and use the additional inputs that it can run. Another item I had to consider is the JRR package has no support for the 5 Button Rotary Keypad. So what I had to do was have the C127 receive all the CAN bus messages from the key pad, then transmit them to the M170, and have the M170 receive them. Then the M170 can use these CAN messages to run my cruise control functions.

There are also CAN expansion modules from MoTeC as well.

Also, depending what Dash you get, the C187 has a TON of extra I/Os you can use a a bridge as well as CAN busses, but be ready to pay up for that.

What I recommend, and I needed to do this to make sure I could take my current wiring harness, which you know I spent thousands on and who knows how many hours planning and building and consolidate down to one Deutsch plug that goes to the M170, is going pin by pin with everything you need and see if you really need an M190. You very well may need all the additional items the M190 provides. If it's simply additional I/Os, you have options of different dashes or CAN expansion modules.

I know that was a long response, but to answer the question the narrow band control on the M190 isn't the only reason I didn't step up to it. The Dual Lambda To CAN NTK (LTC-D NTK) module wasn't terribly expensive and its giving me wide band control I was looking for. I do remember Joel telling me something about the M1 not needing wide band so that's probably why the M190 has a built in narrow band functionality.

There is obviously a cost associated with the different between the two. Depending where you go and what package you choose, its probably about am $1,800 - $2,000 difference in price. Plus you will need three Deutsch AS connectors versus the one for the M170.

Along this journey of swapping to MoTeC I've really learned the possibilities are endless. Everything I ever wanted to do, and then some, can be achieved on the M1 platform. There really is a reason a lot of high end motorsports programs us them. I wish I would have known all this to begin with years ago as I would have done this to begin with, but that's ok, I've learned a lot along this journey and I hope to build another car in the future.

[crash]

I think that one of the best things is that you not only have learned a lot, but are willing to share the journey. Very helpful to others. Thanks for doing that.

[Shoeless]

I think that one of the best things is that you not only have learned a lot, but are willing to share the journey. Very helpful to others. Thanks for doing that.

You are absolutely welcome. I know I am no subject matter expert on the M1, but I am totally willing to share what I have learned along the way. Especially on this forum where you and many others have guided me over the last 6 years of me building my GTM to make it the best I possibly can.

[beeman]

Sean, I know you are done with your wiring, but I saw this pop up, HP Academy has the wiring course for $1. I really liked their tuning course, I bought this course as well.

https://www.hpacademy.com/courses/wiring-fundamentals/

[Ajzride]

Sean, I know you are done with your wiring, but I saw this pop up, HP Academy has the wiring course for $1. I really liked their tuning course, I bought this course as well.

https://www.hpacademy.com/courses/wiring-fundamentals/

Need a special link? All the courses are $99 to $299 on their website.

[beeman]

Well crap, it's showing $99 for me now. I followed them on Facebook, every once in a while they offer me $1 courses. I have engine building, engine tuning, and now wiring.

[Shoeless]

I took all of their wiring courses to learn every aspect of what went into my harness build. Tons of amazing videos with these guys.

I finally ended up buying the VIP Package one day when it was on sale to get access to every class they have made AND any future classes. For me I was buying them here an there and it made total sense for me to do this.

[beeman]

https://www.hpacademy.com/1-dollar-w...amentals-april

Is it showing $1 now?

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[Ajzride]

https://www.hpacademy.com/1-dollar-w...amentals-april

Is it showing $1 now?

Screenshot_20240413_205200_Chrome.jpg

Indeed!!! Thank you.

[Shoeless]

Damn, that's a good hook up for anyone. If you would like to find out how HP Academy teaches their courses and maybe learn something, I highly recommend picking this class up. This is where I stared on my wiring journey.