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Thread: David's MKIV Build

  1. #1
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    Cool David's MKIV Build

    I'm starting this thread because i'm anxiously awaiting my FFR roadster. It should get here in July and i'm trying to get ready for my build. I've got no mechanical experience what-so-ever; but I love to tinker. I have ravenously followed WarScottEagle's build thread. I'm awed at how incredible his roadster looks and looking to try my hand at it.

    I purchased the complete kit with the following:
    -Powdercoated chassis
    -Coyote Mounts
    -IRS
    -Power Steering
    -Leather Seats
    -GPS gauge set
    -Stainless bumper
    -Stainless side exhaust
    -Wilwood brakes

    I haven't purchased my motor and transmission yet; i figure that I can wait to buy them when I've made some actual progress on the build. (my build is modestly funded ). I'm new at this and i'm looking forward to pointers from anyone who's willing to take the time.

  2. #2
    Itchief's Avatar
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    Congratulations

    Let the fun begin be sure to keep your checkbook handy

    Rick
    #8475 Complete Kit Delivered Nov 2014, started Nov 2015, Street Legal Apr 2016, Paint and Interior Completed Aug 2017, 390 BBF, March accessory kit, MSD Atomic EFI and Ready to run, TKO 500 with MidShift kit, hooker headers, 3 link, track lock with 3.55, sway bars, power steering, wipers, heater

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    Senior Member shark92651's Avatar
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    Welcome to the madness. I take it you are planning a Coyote build? That is what I am working on and I'm just about to start body work. I have a detailed build thread with lots of pics if you want to check it out:

    Shark92651's MK4 Coyote Build #9327

    There are so many good build threads so check out a few of them, especially edwardb's 20th Anniversary thread if you are going Coyote. You can glean a lot of good ideas out of them, no two builds are the same.
    Last edited by shark92651; 05-05-2019 at 10:32 PM.

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    Thanks Itchief. I’m becoming more and more aware of the financial sinkhole this project can become. Too many awesome builds make me want to try too many things. I can’t even decide on a color yet.

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    Really good thread shark92651. I appreciate all the pics. I have about 8 weeks before my kit arrives, and i'm trying to get my house in order (so to speak). I made my body-buck this weekend. I've seen edwardb's thread. I saw his video on Autoblog. Its one of the main factors that led me to start my kit. I loved his 20th anniversary build.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by extradc; 05-07-2019 at 09:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by extradc View Post
    Thanks Itchief. I’m becoming more and more aware of the financial sinkhole this project can become. Too many awesome builds make me want to try too many things. I can’t even decide on a color yet.
    There are people who've been driving their cars in gelcoat for years that still haven't figured out color yet. No need to rush on that decision!
    Mk4 #8861 Complete kit. Delivered: 27 Apr 2016, Roller: 12 Jan 2018

    Forte: 2016 Coyote & cover, alternator, engine controls, clutch kit, bellhousing, Moroso pan, TKO600, midshift, 3.55 axle, 190lph fuel pump, Spectre air inlet and filter. Breeze: battery forward and switch, fuel pressure regulator and braided hose, radiator shroud and mounts. Replicaparts: radiator panel, under dash panel, weathertight connectors.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    Welcome to the asylum!!

    I'm well into the build of #9365 (took my 1st illegal body-on test cruise the other day). Here's a link to my thread
    John D. - Minneapolis 'Burbs

    1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
    2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5
    2018 Mk4 Roadster - #9365 Build Thread

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    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Congrats, enjoy the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixit View Post
    Welcome to the asylum!!

    I'm well into the build of #9365 (took my 1st illegal body-on test cruise the other day). Here's a link to my thread
    Wouldn’t mind seeing some pics of your clandestine adventure

  10. #10
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    Wouldn’t mind seeing some pics of your clandestine adventure
    I'm lucky that I'm old enough to where 99% of my really stupid sheit was done before camera phones & GoPro's!!... so I'm in the habit of not documenting illegal activity - its just he said/she said officer...
    John D. - Minneapolis 'Burbs

    1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
    2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5
    2018 Mk4 Roadster - #9365 Build Thread

  11. #11
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    Well Lookey here!

  12. #12
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    Finally got the parts for my toy. Got the body cover on the body buck. We are ready to start inventory. Boxes littered everywhere. This is not going to be a one-day exercise.


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    Senior Member BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Congratulations... the fun can officially begin... Where in the world are you located? We are all here to help in anyway possible. I've built 20th anniversary #8 of 20.... not with a coyote however.
    Carl

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 ( #8 of 20 ) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    Build Thread Click Here
    First Start 11-1-18
    ----First GoCart 11-7-18
    BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
    Carb / Heater / Heated Seats / Cruise Control / Drop Trunk & Battery

    Gel Coat Driver 1/12/19 - 1000 Miles 3-23-19 / 2200 Miles 4-30-19 / 7500 Miles 8/16/19 / 9000 Miles 9/15/19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAsp427 View Post
    Congratulations... the fun can officially begin... Where in the world are you located? We are all here to help in anyway possible. I've built 20th anniversary #8 of 20.... not with a coyote however.
    Carl
    Thanks Carl! I’m in Houston.

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    Just curious, what's the serial number?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
    Just curious, what's the serial number?
    No worries, its serial number 9644.

    For the past three weeks one thing after another has kept me from working on the car. Family came in from out of town. I went out of town. The kids got sick. I got sick. But today, i finally managed to get a few things done. I did my inventory and I started taking down aluminum panels. Small bites of the elephant.

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    My brother, knowing that i was embarking on this build, gave me a birthday gift. Its a miniature die-cast. The color scheme is promising.




  18. #18
    Senior Member BadAsp427's Avatar
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    That is an awesome number to have on a Cobra


    70544E69-8EA4-44A1-8ECB-A5D5C5BCCBAD.jpg

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 ( #8 of 20 ) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    Build Thread Click Here
    First Start 11-1-18
    ----First GoCart 11-7-18
    BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
    Carb / Heater / Heated Seats / Cruise Control / Drop Trunk & Battery

    Gel Coat Driver 1/12/19 - 1000 Miles 3-23-19 / 2200 Miles 4-30-19 / 7500 Miles 8/16/19 / 9000 Miles 9/15/19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAsp427 View Post
    That is an awesome number to have on a Cobra


    70544E69-8EA4-44A1-8ECB-A5D5C5BCCBAD.jpg
    BadAsp, your Cobra is Bad ***! I hope i'm close to where you are in a year.

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    I took my engine, cockpit and trunk Aluminum to the powder coater over the weekend. I had read on the other forum of some people before using POR-15 to coat aluminum, and i've begun that for all the other framing aluminum. Anybody have any comments on why I made a bad choice? Not that it makes a difference now, i'm about 70% of the way through. Would be good when i'm doing a post-mortem... hehe.

    Small bites of this elephant. I finally took all of the aluminum off the chassis.



    My dad came over to help me with the car. In the course of 5 days (by himself) he put on the lower control arms, the upper control arms, the shocks, the rear end, cut the spindles, installed the steering rack, the steering shaft, rotors, brake calipers. Not bad for a 71 year old man. But everything is finger tight, and dad's not one to pour over the manual (or the inventory sheet) so i'm having to go back and make sure that I agree with everything he did.



    I torqued down the lower control arm chassis bolts. The book says that you should have those parallel to the floor when torquing. But in order to get it truly parallel, i'd have to have broken down all of my dad's work. How big a deal is it to get them truly parallel?

    I also bought a bottle of the Permatex anti-seize lubricant for the upper control arm adjusting sleeves, (thanks Mr. Fixit). I'll lube that up sometime this week.
    Last edited by extradc; 08-19-2019 at 05:44 PM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member BadAsp427's Avatar
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    From what I can see this all looks really good. You may want to take this opportunity to modify the rear UCA adjustment sleeve as you may need it for alignment later. IE, you shorten the sleeve by cutting the two ends off and also cutting the two parts that thread into them. Also, be sure to grease up the threads on these as well for later because when all the weight of the car is on it during final alignment, it will be very difficult to adjust with out the grease. Hope this all makes sense and helps you out..

    Drivers Side Front modification.jpg

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 ( #8 of 20 ) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    Build Thread Click Here
    First Start 11-1-18
    ----First GoCart 11-7-18
    BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
    Carb / Heater / Heated Seats / Cruise Control / Drop Trunk & Battery

    Gel Coat Driver 1/12/19 - 1000 Miles 3-23-19 / 2200 Miles 4-30-19 / 7500 Miles 8/16/19 / 9000 Miles 9/15/19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAsp427 View Post
    From what I can see this all looks really good. You may want to take this opportunity to modify the rear UCA adjustment sleeve as you may need it for alignment later. IE, you shorten the sleeve by cutting the two ends off and also cutting the two parts that thread into them. Also, be sure to grease up the threads on these as well for later because when all the weight of the car is on it during final alignment, it will be very difficult to adjust with out the grease. Hope this all makes sense and helps you out..

    Drivers Side Front modification.jpg
    I was confused about shortening the adjusting sleeves (it is very easy to confuse me). Do you shorten the sleeves on the arm that is welded to the ball joint plate (in the front on one side and rear on the other), or do you do the two rear arms?

    Terry

  23. #23
    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    To clarify the need to shorten the threaded portions, and the sleeves take a look here...
    You won't be able to crank the sleeve assembly "short" enough to get the camber/caster specs recommended before you bottom out on the sleeve to lock nuts, or the threaded shafts touch together.

    If you choose to cut the threaded portions make sure to thread one of the correct nuts down on the shaft before cutting!
    Regardless of the method used to cut the shaft (hacksaw, porta-band, etc), there will be a burr left on the end that needs to be dressed off. Some careful work with a hand file will do this easily. Then remove the nut you threaded on earlier. Spin it on & off a few more times...
    It will act as a "thread-chaser" and clean up (or reveal) any boogers or further work needed to clean up the threads.
    Last edited by Fixit; 08-21-2019 at 06:58 AM.
    John D. - Minneapolis 'Burbs

    1965 El Camino - LT-1, 4L60e, 4wh discs, SC&C susp.
    2013 F-150 Platinum - Twin Turbo 3.5
    2018 Mk4 Roadster - #9365 Build Thread

  24. #24
    Senior Member BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMartinLVNV View Post
    I was confused about shortening the adjusting sleeves (it is very easy to confuse me). Do you shorten the sleeves on the arm that is welded to the ball joint plate (in the front on one side and rear on the other), or do you do the two rear arms?

    Terry
    Hey Terry,
    It will be the sleeve that is going to be on the rear of both sides... and follow the advice of Fixit about putting a nut on them before you cut the so that you can thread it off and help clean up the threads should you have some burrs. I actually used an angle grinder to cut the steel parts and just a hack saw in my vice for the aluminum sleeve.
    Carl

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 ( #8 of 20 ) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    Build Thread Click Here
    First Start 11-1-18
    ----First GoCart 11-7-18
    BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
    Carb / Heater / Heated Seats / Cruise Control / Drop Trunk & Battery

    Gel Coat Driver 1/12/19 - 1000 Miles 3-23-19 / 2200 Miles 4-30-19 / 7500 Miles 8/16/19 / 9000 Miles 9/15/19.

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    Ok thanks Carl. I will have to switch the shortened coupler on the driver's side so that it is in the rear position. It didn't seem right the way it currently is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAsp427 View Post
    Hey Terry,
    It will be the sleeve that is going to be on the rear of both sides... and follow the advice of Fixit about putting a nut on them before you cut the so that you can thread it off and help clean up the threads should you have some burrs. I actually used an angle grinder to cut the steel parts and just a hack saw in my vice for the aluminum sleeve.
    Carl
    Oh wow. Thanks a bunch Carl and Mr. Fixit. No telling what kind of hissy i would have pitched if I had to pull down the adjustment sleeves when Mr. Fixit did.



    I took the sleeves off and I followed what you did Carl. I cut at the bevel between the hexagonal and the cylindrical. I put a piece of duct-tape to mark the LH thread side.



    I cut the bolts between 1/4" and 3/8" (it was supposed to be 1/4" but my hand isnt the steadiest with a sawzall. 3 minutes of grinding later, its somewhere in between 1/4 and 3/8).




    I then applied copious amount of permatex anti-seize lubricant and reinstalled.

    thanks again guys.

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    I was getting ready to begin torquing down my hub nuts with a torque wrench and ran in to this post for EdwardB, responding to someone stating not to use cheater bars. Does anyone else have any opinions on this?

    "Actually, that's not true if you're putting an extension on the handle. The mechanism measuring the torque (mechanical, electronic, whatever) is in the head of the wrench and doesn't know how long the handle is, where you're grabbing it, etc. It's just measuring the force at the socket itself. Many mfg's do recommend against using a cheater bar. Probably afraid of damaging the wrench, exceeding the capacity, etc. With a long cheater bar, it is possible to go right past the desired torque, miss the click, whatever. But doesn't change the function of the torque wrench itself. Now put some kind of offset adapter on the socket itself, like a crow's foot, and then things change. There are conversion charts, but I've avoided using those."

    The torque wrench manuals do specifically direct you to not use a cheater bar for any reason whatsoever.
    Last edited by extradc; 09-10-2019 at 02:33 PM.

  28. #28
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by extradc View Post
    I was getting ready to begin torquing down my hub nuts with a torque wrench and ran in to this post for EdwardB, responding to someone stating not to use cheater bars. Does anyone else have any opinions on this?

    "Actually, that's not true if you're putting an extension on the handle. The mechanism measuring the torque (mechanical, electronic, whatever) is in the head of the wrench and doesn't know how long the handle is, where you're grabbing it, etc. It's just measuring the force at the socket itself. Many mfg's do recommend against using a cheater bar. Probably afraid of damaging the wrench, exceeding the capacity, etc. With a long cheater bar, it is possible to go right past the desired torque, miss the click, whatever. But doesn't change the function of the torque wrench itself. Now put some kind of offset adapter on the socket itself, like a crow's foot, and then things change. There are conversion charts, but I've avoided using those."

    The torque wrench manuals do specifically direct you to not use a cheater bar for any reason whatsoever.
    Stand by what I wrote, for the reasons explained, and sounds like the manuals don't recommend it either. Curious what others will say. But why the question? Torque wrenches that will deliver the necessary torque for the front (250 ft-lbs as I recall) are typically large and it's not that hard to reach the required setting. For the rear, the initial torque isn't that high, comparatively. The rest is an angle spec, not requiring a torque wrench, and you can use whatever gorilla wrench you want on that one.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread and Video
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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    I understand what you're saying Paul, but it all boils down to whether or not I've had my Wheaties for the day or not. My torque wrench upper limit is 250 ft/lbs, so i'm worried that i'll have to muscle it to get to the torque requirements. Not much weight on the frame right now and its on jack stands. I was really just digging in to whether or not a cheater bar is something I should consider using; or as you commented, an extension to the handle. I don't think it is.

    Based on the formula for torque (T=F*R*sin(theta)), (f=force measured at the socket, R= moment arm or wrench arm length, and sin(theta)= angle measured inside the wrench)

    The wrench has an inputted wrench length. Adding an extension to the handle would change the R (or the moment arm) varying the value of the torque and messing up the calculation the wrench does internally. (I mean the whole point of putting a cheater bar is to reduce the force needed to achieve the equivalent torque.)

    Food for thought.

  30. #30
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by extradc View Post
    I understand what you're saying Paul, but it all boils down to whether or not I've had my Wheaties for the day or not. My torque wrench upper limit is 250 ft/lbs, so i'm worried that i'll have to muscle it to get to the torque requirements. Not much weight on the frame right now and its on jack stands. I was really just digging in to whether or not a cheater bar is something I should consider using; or as you commented, an extension to the handle. I don't think it is.

    Based on the formula for torque (T=F*R*sin(theta)), (f=force measured at the socket, R= moment arm or wrench arm length, and sin(theta)= angle measured inside the wrench)

    The wrench has an inputted wrench length. Adding an extension to the handle would change the R (or the moment arm) varying the value of the torque and messing up the calculation the wrench does internally. (I mean the whole point of putting a cheater bar is to reduce the force needed to achieve the equivalent torque.)

    Food for thought.
    Tons of references on the web for this question. Here's one: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=2899246.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread and Video
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Tons of references on the web for this question. Here's one: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=2899246.
    I've saw those posts. Lot of good points, but they don't account for the variation in the calculation. The video below shows it a little better than I can explain it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsMx...ature=youtu.be

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    Paul, you were right. At the end of the day getting 250 ft/lbs of torque on the hub nut wasn't that hard. I put my big boy pants on and tightened the hub nuts without issue.

    With the crazy heat in Houston, I've been very slow to work on the car. I torqued the front end to spec.



    I put on my F panels (riveted them in place.)

    My wheels came in, so that got me pretty excited.



    So I got the motivation and put the rear lower and upper control arms, the toe adjustment arms, the rear end and the CV axles.



    At this point I'm not even taking taking bites of this elephant, its steady nibbles. Death by 1000 paper cuts.

  33. #33
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    It's coming along nicely!
    I found during my build, that I had jumped the gun on affixing the F panels, before getting the brake line, and flex line bracket in place first. Still possible, just more awkward.

    I'm mystified about the cutting of the upper control arm sleeves, etc.. The problem used to be, that they were just barely long enough to allow for needed adjustments, and still have adequate thread length engagement. Is this an issue nowadays with the new style MK4 supplied parts or something?

    Are you going to tack weld the upper ball joints. They were known to back out, even with Locktite. A small tack weld solved the problem.
    FFR6803RD, MK 3.1, 302 EFI, fr/rr disc brakes, WC-T5, c/w Hurst Competition Plus shifter, 3 link rear, Koni adjustable coil over shocks, dual roll bars, BBK 4-4 headers, 3.55 rear gears, BBK rear lower control arms c/w poly bushings. Ivy Green Metallic Arrived-02/08, On road 09/2010

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    Thanks Bill! Slowly but.... well just slowly.

    Buddy of mine was having a little fun at my expense and sent me this in a text.

    Gotta say... feels pretty accurate.

    I'm not sure why the adjusting sleeves are too long nowadays, but I am really glad that BadAsp mentioned it. i think the manual tells you to adjust it to 7inches (approximately) and even with the cuts I made, it was bottoming out.

    It's interesting you mention about the upper ball joints. I had not read about them backing out. I did notice that my driver's side ball cup was rotating independently from the bolt-in housing. I noticed this as I tried to tighten the zerk fitting. But it never occurred to me that they would loosen from the control arm. Unfortunately, I'm not a welder... at all. Is there a different solution that doesn't involve tack welds?

  35. #35
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC Bill View Post
    I'm mystified about the cutting of the upper control arm sleeves, etc.. The problem used to be, that they were just barely long enough to allow for needed adjustments, and still have adequate thread length engagement. Is this an issue nowadays with the new style MK4 supplied parts or something?

    Are you going to tack weld the upper ball joints. They were known to back out, even with Loctite. A small tack weld solved the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by extradc View Post
    I'm not sure why the adjusting sleeves are too long nowadays, but I am really glad that BadAsp mentioned it. i think the manual tells you to adjust it to 7 inches (approximately) and even with the cuts I made, it was bottoming out.

    It's interesting you mention about the upper ball joints. I had not read about them backing out. I did notice that my driver's side ball cup was rotating independently from the bolt-in housing. I noticed this as I tried to tighten the zerk fitting. But it never occurred to me that they would loosen from the control arm. Unfortunately, I'm not a welder... at all. Is there a different solution that doesn't involve tack welds?
    I can't give you the exact dates, but somewhere between my #7750 Mk4 build (2012) and #8674 Mk4 build (2015), Factory Five changed suppliers on the upper control arms. Not the first time they changed as I understand. The picture below shows the previous ones that came with #7750. The issue with those was in order to get the caster required for power steering, the front adjusting sleeve would run out of threads when cranked out to tip the spindle back. So it was pretty much the norm to replace the front adjusting sleeves with longer ones, which this one has. On the current UCA's (from https://www.spcalignment.com/ as I understand) the process, if needed, is to shorten the rear adjusting sleeve and pivot stud. Also, as you can see in the pic, the previous style had a flat ball joint plate where the current one is angled out. You can also see where I added a weld bead as mentioned. I haven't heard of the newer style having the same issue with backing out. On #8674, I used red Loctite and put a witness mark on the ball joint and plate to detect any movement. I check it as part of normal maintenance. In three seasons of driving and just over 6,000 miles, nothing has moved.

    Last edited by edwardb; 09-26-2019 at 01:07 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread and Video
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  36. #36
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    So I wonder if the reason the ball joints don't back out anymore is because of the new UCA''s used?
    Thanks for the explanation on those UCA's, Edward. Sounds like FFR may need to change the supplier again for them..and save builders fooling around cutting them.

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